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Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 14.02.14 0:52

@jeanmonroe wrote:
And what irrefutable EVIDENCE does Redwood have to be able to STATE publicly about an 'abductor', let alone catergorically state on national TV "THE ABDUCTOR"?

That is pure conjecture (an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information) by him, personally.

He wasn't in PDL at the EXACT time a child went 'missing' was he?

So he has obviously arrived at his 'conclusion' that there was an 'abduction' by 'THE abductor' based on what he has either 'heard or been told' about by someone.

Not even the McCanns highly paid lawyer Isobel of Carter Ruck will ever again say Madeleine McCann 'WAS abducted'

Not even the McCanns highly paid Portuguese lawyer Isobel Durate, will say Madeleine McCann 'WAS abducted' preferring to say in a courtroom 'the McCann couple's THESIS'

So where Andy Redwood has got his idea that Madeleine McCann WAS 'abducted by THE abductor' is anyones guess!

The way I read what he said was that 'the abductor' meant 'the sighting of the abductor by Jane Tanner'.  Just my reading of it though.

And by eliminating Tannerman, wasn't he effectively saying that there was no abductor at that particular time?

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by sonic72 on 14.02.14 2:07

The Mccanns are harming the 'search' by leaving 'Tannerman' on their website, even though Scotland Yard have eliminated him as a suspect.

So they have no grounds whatsoever to claim anyone else is harming the 'search'. They need to get their own house in order before trying to accuse others.

Mr Amaral should counter-claim against them for wasting the court's time, and his own time. By bringing him to court on these grounds, when the mccanns are clearly guilty of harming their own search by leaving up a ruled out suspect on their website, and knowingly misleading the general public.

Perverting the course of justice, and neglect are two charges that cannot be denied at this stage.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by marconi on 14.02.14 5:02

The 3rd rogatory letter is probably asking te PJ to carry out the requests of the 2nd one.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by watendlath on 14.02.14 5:12

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:I didn't hear Redwood say that it was PROBABLY the man or MAYBE.

What he said was:

"We're almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor."

Reasonable doubt.

And what irrefutable EVIDENCE does Redwood have to be able to STATE publicly about an 'abductor', let alone catergorically state on national TV "THE ABDUCTOR"?

That is pure conjecture (an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information) by him, personally.

He wasn't in PDL at the EXACT time a child went 'missing' was he?

So he has obviously arrived at his 'conclusion' that there was an 'abduction' by 'THE abductor' based on what he has either 'heard or been told' about by someone.

Not even the McCanns highly paid lawyer Isobel of Carter Ruck will ever again say Madeleine McCann 'WAS abducted'

Not even the McCanns highly paid Portuguese lawyer Isobel Durate, will say Madeleine McCann 'WAS abducted' preferring to say in a courtroom 'the McCann couple's THESIS'

So where Andy Redwood has got his idea that Madeleine McCann WAS 'abducted by THE abductor' is anyones guess!

It's almost like a now convicted and jailed 'mortified and shameful' perjurer, 30 year career MET policeman saying 'I heard a cabinet minister calling the police 'f**king plebs'!

And 'convinced himself he had witnessed the Plebgate incident based on “a vivid and compelling video in his head,”

Has Andy 'convinced' himself that Madeleine McCann WAS 'abducted'?
 Maybe he is using the word abductor for the sake of simplicity to describe whoever took Madeleine out of the apartment.

An abductor could still be someone who knew Madeleine or someone known to the parents.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Bishop Brennan on 14.02.14 7:39

Good to see the Express and other red-tops getting it all wrong again, headlining with "Police closing in on the 3 Burglars", along with a sub-text of "arrests and wrapping up this case is being slowed down by the dreadful PJ". All of them positioning for the "bungling Portuguese cops let the burglars get away with it" next phase of this new narrative.

Meanwhile the MET are parading their red faces again as another high-profile trial backfires on them. At this point there is only 1 set of "bungling cops" and sadly they are ours!  gm 

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Seek truth on 14.02.14 8:00

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:I didn't hear Redwood say that it was PROBABLY the man or MAYBE.

What he said was:

"We're almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor."

Reasonable doubt.  Even if they state elsewhere that they're absolutely certain, Redwood still made this statement on Crimewatch, which provides a justification for the McCanns' continued use of Tannerman on their website.  I'm not a legal expert by any means, but to me the charge of perverting the course of justice looks difficult to enforce when reasonable doubt exists.

Also, I think they're calling Redwood's bluff.  If you believe as I do that Tannerman was fictional, then Crecheman may well also have been fictional - as seems likely to me anyway.  A threat of perverting the course of justice is going to have no weight at all if Redwood can't produce Crecheman for the trial.
That's still no excuse to leave the Tannerman on their website because they could have at least said "on by the way Redwood said it might be him or might not" 

If I hadn't done what I was told by the police they would have been after me, maybe not you I guess, as you don't have the same opinion. Don't tell me you'd feel safe having Tannerman on your website as a defenitely FIND THIS MAN after crimewatchs decision.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 14.02.14 8:07

@Seek truth wrote:
That's still no excuse to leave the Tannerman on their website because they could have at least said "on by the way Redwood said it might be him or might not" 

If I hadn't done what I was told by the police they would have been after me, maybe not you I guess, as you don't have the same opinion. Don't tell me you'd feel safe having Tannerman on your website as a defenitely FIND THIS MAN after crimewatchs decision.

I refer you to my assessment of the risks that I posted a few posts back, I've explained it all there. If I was to turn around what you've said here, if you was to go in and order them to take it down with threat of prosecution, then it would be all over the media the next day and the case would be blown. So perhaps safer that the police may be thinking more along my lines.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Seek truth on 14.02.14 8:13

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:
Well who's in charge here mccanns or SY (crimewatch).

 are we the public to ignore crimewatch?

What's going on here, are you saying crimewatch does still want us to search for this man? 

I see, confusion is good.
Let me stop with the assumptions then, let's just sit and watch the tempo move forward, and works are arses off to pay for this joke.

If the McCanns know that the investigation is a white-wash, why contradict SY on their website?  Why not co-operate as fully as they can, seeing as they've been given the key to freedom?

If the McCanns know that it's not a white-wash and SY are making a case against them, why would they co-operate at all?
1) they haven't removed Tannerman because they want to confuse the public, as from the very beginning! Which is why we have no proper answers. And SY has allowed them to leave Tannerman on their website. 

2) have the Mccanns REALLY co-operated? They haven't given any proper answers because they're not asked.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Seek truth on 14.02.14 8:17

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:
That's still no excuse to leave the Tannerman on their website because they could have at least said "on by the way Redwood said it might be him or might not" 

If I hadn't done what I was told by the police they would have been after me, maybe not you I guess, as you don't have the same opinion. Don't tell me you'd feel safe having Tannerman on your website as a defenitely FIND THIS MAN after crimewatchs decision.

I refer you to my assessment of the risks that I posted a few posts back, I've explained it all there.  If I was to turn around what you've said here, if you was to go in and order them to take it down with threat of prosecution, then it would be all over the media the next day and the case would be blown.  So perhaps safer that the police may be thinking more along my lines.
Telling them to correct their website will NOT blow the case. That doesn't make any sense to me.

We all deserve to know the reason WHY they want the public to continue searching for that man, for 7 years.
Or at least have an explanation from SY why the website still hasn't been amended. Not kept in the dark as usual. Look at the Portuguese they've put The PJ files online for the world. Now that's what I call proper work, we tax payers have a right to know.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Bishop Brennan on 14.02.14 8:21

@Seek truth wrote:
That's still no excuse to leave the Tannerman on their website because they could have at least said "on by the way Redwood said it might be him or might not" 

There is of course one very good reason why you would leave Tannerman on your website. Which is, if you have reason to believe that all the stories about "burglars, gypsies and employees with keys" will come to absolutely nothing - leaving the case with precisely ZERO suspects... (other than the PJ's original 3).

This is what makes the McCann's decision to leave Tannerman on the site so suspicious. A 'revelation' moment all of its own. It may of course indicate narcissistic stupidity rather than point to guilt of any sort. But with SY going all out for "burglars, gypsies and employees with keys", the world asks why do the McCanns not keep their site 100% current with all this new info? The new timeline, sightings and suspects represent their biggest chance of a breakthrough, and yet they refuse to update the site, preferring to remain loyal to Tannerman.

Since Crimewatch, SY and the media have moved on beyond tannerman and the events of 9pm to 9:40pm, and are off chasing new baddies. For some reason the McCanns cannot or will not move with them.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.02.14 8:27

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
What [Redwood] said was:

"We're almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor."

Reasonable doubt.  Even if they state elsewhere that they're absolutely certain, Redwood still made this statement on Crimewatch, which provides a justification for the McCanns' continued use of Tannerman on their website...If you believe as I do that Tannerman was fictional, then Crecheman may well also have been fictional - as seems likely to me anyway.  
Which is effectively an accusation you have made that Redwood was deliberately lying about 'Crecheman' - and that he has done so publicly to the 6.7 million people watching CrimeWatch.

Now that would be 'perverting the course of justice'

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by PeterMac on 14.02.14 8:39

And for the record,
08:38 GMT Friday 14th Feb 2014
TANNERMAN IS STILL THERE !
" />

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Bishop Brennan on 14.02.14 8:49

@PeterMac wrote:And for the record,
08:38 GMT Friday 14th Feb 2014
TANNERMAN IS STILL THERE !
" />

Presumably we might then infer that the tempo of the McCann's own enquiry is moving backwards?

Although I still don't understand quite how a tempo moves in any direction...  laughat 

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by macdonut on 14.02.14 8:51

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
What [Redwood] said was:

"We're almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor."

Reasonable doubt.  Even if they state elsewhere that they're absolutely certain, Redwood still made this statement on Crimewatch, which provides a justification for the McCanns' continued use of Tannerman on their website...If you believe as I do that Tannerman was fictional, then Crecheman may well also have been fictional - as seems likely to me anyway.  
Which is effectively an accusation you have made that Redwood was deliberately lying about 'Crecheman' - and that he has done so publicly to the 6.7 million people watching CrimeWatch.

Now that would be 'perverting the course of justice'

Wouldn't that be classed as the type of "white lie" detectives tell all the time?  Putting a piece of false information into the public domain with the express intention of applying pressure to known suspects?

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Guest on 14.02.14 8:58

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And for the record,
08:38 GMT Friday 14th Feb 2014
TANNERMAN IS STILL THERE !
" />

Presumably we might then infer that the tempo of the McCann's own enquiry is moving backwards?

Although I still don't understand quite how a tempo moves in any direction...   laughat 
Bishop, SY has clearly drawn up its own stand alone definitions of beat and distance and is capable of merging the two. Their powers do not stop there either. Remember, according to AR, they are capable of drawing everything back to zero, too.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by ultimaThule on 14.02.14 9:00

@PeterMac wrote:And for the record,
08:38 GMT Friday 14th Feb 2014
TANNERMAN IS STILL THERE !
" />
As Tannerman of lifestyle fund fame is wearing similar clothing to that worn by the innocent daughter-carrying father identified by AR, I view this as the McCanns making a direct appeal to Crecheman, or anyone who knows who he may be, to come forward so that Gerry can do a number on him and persuade him he was mistaken as to the time he was crossing the road in much the same way as he was able to convince Jez Wilkins that their little chat-ette took place later than it did - to which, given the extent of the mclies, I must add the provisio 'if in fact it did take place on that or any other night'.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Bishop Brennan on 14.02.14 9:04

@macdonut wrote:
Wouldn't that be classed as the type of "white lie" detectives tell all the time?  Putting a piece of false information into the public domain with the express intention of applying pressure to known suspects?

But it was never his intention to put pressure on anyone. Crecheman was his "revelation moment" - it meant he would change the focus of the case - to look at events from 9.40pm to 10pm as being 'abduction time'. To focus on Smithman, Burglars, Gypsies, and Employees with keys. And that is exactly what he and his team have been doing ever since. There is simply no evidence to suggest he is trying put pressure on known suspects. His team are chasing and ruling out everybody else in PDL that night it seems...

I originally wondered if crecheman was invented, but it doesn't fit. There is a man - he almost certainly has a kid, and was walking that night. Now, whether JT ever saw him, or where or when that sighting took place - well - Redwood did not go into details on that. My suspicion is that it was not where and when she said it was. And that was the reason it took so long to match 'tannerman' and 'crecheman' together. But no way would a career cop risk everything inventing something that could so easily be proved as a lie. He had no need to.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Guest on 14.02.14 9:04

FACTS:

We know that SY sent the PJ three ILORS but we do not know the contents of those letters.

We know that SY regularly meet with the PJ in Portugal but we do not know what goes on in those meetings.


That's good enough for me  thumbsup 


The discussions about the three burglars, tannerman, missing keys etc. etc. simply muddy the waters which is exactly what the McCanns want.





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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Guest on 14.02.14 9:13

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And for the record,
08:38 GMT Friday 14th Feb 2014
TANNERMAN IS STILL THERE !
" />

Presumably we might then infer that the tempo of the McCann's own enquiry is moving backwards?

Although I still don't understand quite how a tempo moves in any direction...   laughat 

Reverend Father,

May I be so bold as to give you an impression?

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by HelenMeg on 14.02.14 9:22

Poe wrote:FACTS:

We know that SY sent the PJ three ILORS but we do not know the contents of those letters.

We know that SY regularly meet with the PJ in Portugal but we do not know what goes on in those meetings.


That's good enough for me  thumbsup 


The discussions about the three burglars, tannerman, missing keys etc. etc. simply muddy the waters which is exactly what the McCanns want.




Yes, agree. 
In th eMc Conn position they are again in a situation where noone is telling them whats going on. They are scared, frustrated and annoyed. They put out these stories about 3 B's in order to provoke SY into talking to them.. they are getting desperate IMO.

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Guest on 14.02.14 9:34

@HelenMeg wrote:
Poe wrote:FACTS:

We know that SY sent the PJ three ILORS but we do not know the contents of those letters.

We know that SY regularly meet with the PJ in Portugal but we do not know what goes on in those meetings.


That's good enough for me  thumbsup 


The discussions about the three burglars, tannerman, missing keys etc. etc. simply muddy the waters which is exactly what the McCanns want.




Yes, agree. 
In th eMc Conn position they are again in a situation where noone is telling them whats going on. They are scared, frustrated and annoyed. They put out these stories about 3 B's in order to provoke SY into talking to them.. they are getting desperate IMO.
While at the same time:

AR/SY are silently wielding away all people in a position to provide an aliby;
and the Media are ludi-cruising these very same people by constantly propping up new specimina of them, to such an extent that no one could ever take another one of them seriously

Someone said it before: the Media are doing a hatchet job on all these tractormen, thieves, gypsies etc etc, in the public eye, while AR/SY are doing so behind the scenes

And mr. Hewitt said it all: we are not talking to the press

So there!

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 14.02.14 9:38

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Which is effectively an accusation you have made that Redwood was deliberately lying about 'Crecheman' - and that he has done so publicly to the 6.7 million people watching CrimeWatch.

Now that would be 'perverting the course of justice'

So what? I'll let you know if I get arrested.

As for 'perverting the course of justice':

"Perverting the course of justice in English, Canadian, Hong Kong, and Irish law, is a criminal offence in which someone prevents justice from being served on himself or on another party." (wikipedia)

So, which party is SY preventing justice from being served on? Tannerman? How does eliminating Tannerman by whatever means prevent justice from being served on the McCanns?

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by plebgate on 14.02.14 9:42

I would still like to know why video conferencing can't be done.  What's so important that it has to be done in person so regularly?

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.02.14 9:42

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
Presumably we might then infer that the tempo of the McCann's own enquiry is moving backwards?

It depends what the remit and hidden remit of the investigation are. For all we know, it might be proceeding exactly to plan

Although I still don't understand quite how a tempo moves in any direction...   

GRAMMAR POINT 1: Tempos can increase or decrease. They don't move forwards or backwards. According to the self-proclaimed 'World's Greatest Newspaper' (that's the Daily Express by the way), A. The tempo is moving forwards, but B. Is s'tuck in red tape'.

LOGIC POINT 1. B contradicts A.

GRAMMAR POINT 2: You do not, as Gerry McCann once stated, 'purport' theories, you
propound them.
 

GRAMMAR POINT 3. You don't 'draw' everything back to zero. You count everything back to zero. Redwood could have said 'We went back to Square One', or 'We went back to the drawing board', or something like that. But as befits the head of the world's best police force doing the world's most complex investigation, he had to come up with something that sounded much more impressive than either of those two expressions. Unfortunately, it came out as pretentious nonsense. 

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Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.02.14 9:43

@plebgate wrote:I would still like to know why video conferencing can't be done.  What's so important that it has to be done in person so regularly?
Public perception, plebgate.

A video conference just doesn't do that in the same way.

No photo opportunity there

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