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Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:24 am

I agree, PP.  Do you believe that Madeleine died before 3rd?

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by ultimaThule on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:40 am

@PeterMac wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:What a shame the McCanns cannot bury the open window and the jemmied shutters. . . ..
And Kate has compounded it with the "whooshing curtains" story
In her 4/5/7 statement the curtains were wide open.  A year or so later they are tight closed, and demonstrated on the video by holding her forearms together, so that we know.
Then in the PJ photos the curtains are full length and trapped behind the bed and the wicker chair
And the weather reports show a flat calm night, with a light Force 3 breeze, sufficient only to move dust and light paper round.
No gusts
And in any even only on of the panes can open at a time.

It is a tissue of LIES from start to finish.  
As I recall, when the bedroom door slammed shut in her face Kate immediately went to check that she hadn't left the patio doors open thereby creating a draught.  

Having satisfied herself that the patio doors were closed, and having therefore established that the door did not slam shut due to any draught coming from the south/rear of the building, she then opened the bedroom door.

Given that this door is not directly opposite to that part of the patio doors used for entering/exiting the apartment it occurs to me that, in the absence of a wind blowing in from the front/north of the building, any wind entering the apartment from the rear would most probably have caused the half open door to blow fully open, banging against the wall as it did so, and the curtains to have billowed outwards through the open window.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Newintown on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:41 am

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:
@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Thank you PeterMac ...

In two sentences , you gently reminded me to challenge myself on what it is I really believe about this case!

I initially ( many years ago) believed there had been no checking on the children and the apartment had been locked, hence the open window and shutters to allow for an abduction ( which in my opinion did not take place) . When this didnt seem to wash, it was then added the patio doors were unlocked, which I believed was added as an after thought to make the abduction story more believable.

Somewhere along the line, my initial instincts and beliefs have been influenced by 'spin' , confusion sets in and its good to go back every now and again and question what you think you believe.

Great Forum.
Sorry to quote all but mobile and editing quotes becomes all but impossible on iPhone. Yes, totally agree with PeterMacs reminder there. Back to the basics: everything from the McCs is considered to be a falsehood. No abduction, then also no checking routine because no 'leaving children in locked/unlocked apartment'; no 'Mummy why didn't you come when...?" etc etc.

The facts are: MBM missing, no evidence of abduction. Dogs alert to cadaver and blood. T9 stories highly inconsistent. McCann behaviour over last 7 years combative and focused on controlling the media - consistent with something to hide. 

End of facts. We should stop discussing '35 mins checking' or '...when MO did this' or 'JT did that...' Until we regain that discipline we are sadly doing CM's work for him...as of course they intended.

Not forgetting the twins being put back in the creche the next day or soon after.  What parents of a supposedly "abducted" child would chance putting their other two children back amongst strangers who have only been known to them for 3 or 4 days, only parents of course who knew there was no abduction.  That act confirmed in my own mind that there definitely was no abduction.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Nina on Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:09 am

@Swannie wrote:But, if there was NO neglect, how come Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine crying for over an hour one night??
A child doesn't just cry for neglect Swannie. And prolonged crying getting more desperate by the minute, as Mrs Fenn statement tells us makes me think that the child was in desperate state.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by HelenMeg on Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:22 am

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:
@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Thank you PeterMac ...

In two sentences , you gently reminded me to challenge myself on what it is I really believe about this case!

I initially ( many years ago) believed there had been no checking on the children and the apartment had been locked, hence the open window and shutters to allow for an abduction ( which in my opinion did not take place) . When this didnt seem to wash, it was then added the patio doors were unlocked, which I believed was added as an after thought to make the abduction story more believable.

Somewhere along the line, my initial instincts and beliefs have been influenced by 'spin' , confusion sets in and its good to go back every now and again and question what you think you believe.

Great Forum.
Sorry to quote all but mobile and editing quotes becomes all but impossible on iPhone. Yes, totally agree with PeterMacs reminder there. Back to the basics: everything from the McCs is considered to be a falsehood. No abduction, then also no checking routine because no 'leaving children in locked/unlocked apartment'; no 'Mummy why didn't you come when...?" etc etc.

The facts are: MBM missing, no evidence of abduction. Dogs alert to cadaver and blood. T9 stories highly inconsistent. McCann behaviour over last 7 years combative and focused on controlling the media - consistent with something to hide. 

End of facts. We should stop discussing '35 mins checking' or '...when MO did this' or 'JT did that...' Until we regain that discipline we are sadly doing CM's work for him...as of course they intended.
Oh well said prof Plum. Discipline is required.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:12 am

After reading a post by MissWillYa, I've been reading about the Lindbergh baby. Makes very interesting reading. Makes the time gap between 1932 and 2007 look very small. Jaw hit the table several times. Smoke and mirrors to say the least. Peter Mac and PP are  right, we need to go back to basics and filter out the noise created by those with another agenda.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by diatribe on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:29 am

chilli wrote: Smoke and mirrors to say the least. Peter Mac and PP are  right, we need to go back to basics and filter out the noise created by those with another agenda.

The wild conspiracy theories are all good stuff for the McCanns, the wilder the better in the bigger picture. They provide them with a target rich environment to denigrate the plausibility of their detractors.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:28 pm

The facts are: MBM missing, no evidence of abduction. Dogs alert to cadaver and blood. T9 stories highly inconsistent. McCann behaviour over last 7 years combative and focused on controlling the media - consistent with something to hide.

End of facts. We should stop discussing '35 mins checking' or '...when MO did this' or 'JT did that...'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A bit like “The process is like peeling back layers of an onion,”  laughat  laughat 

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Pershing36 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:24 pm

This is absolutely unbelievable when you think about it.  There was a Police Women on Daybreak saying it is absolutely illegal and immoral to leave you kids in the car for even a few seconds as in breaks some 1930's law.  Whether it is to go to a cash machine, pay for petrol or nip into the corner shop it is no, no, no all the way.

She even banged on about lots of abductions from cars. What abductions and are there really that many?  Typical of the plod really, it is perfectly ok for two Doctors to leave kids and go out to be wined and dined every night but not for someone to take their eyes off their kids in a car for 30 secs.

I could have thrown the TV out the window listening to her dribble on. On one hand we have the police assuring us there are not gangs of sexual predators lurking around every corner (sorry TM), then they come up with this nonsense.  Is there evidence to back up all these abducted children from parked cars?

I personal don't leave my 9 year old in the car, not because I fear he would get taken, I am more worried about him playing with the handbrake etc. Far more compelling argument not to do it.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Halfwit on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:22 pm

@PeterMac wrote:
@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Jeanmonroe, my point exactly.
So many people are still unaware Madeleine and her younger siblings were left in an unlocked apartment, night after night, out of sight .

Or so the McCanns insist.
There is little evidence to support this., but for the abduction scenario it is important to insist on their own criminal and serial neglect.

I don't believe anything they say.

If they told me it was raining outside I'd have to check.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:10 pm

I would like to hear of any genuine proven cases of children taken from cars by strangers.

They are much more likely to come to grief by themselves as Pershing36 says. I remember a terrible case where a child set himself and the car on fire and couldn't be saved.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by PeterMac on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:47 pm

@Halfwit wrote:
I don't believe anything they say.
If they told me it was raining outside I'd have to check.
Very wise. Kate told us there were two hard gusts around 10pm which slammed the door and whooshed the curtains.
There were not.
Kate told you that the Last Photo was taken at lunchtime on 3rd, when it was sunny and hot.
It wasn't. It was cloudy and cold with a Force 4 wind.

And so on.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by plebgate on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:25 pm

@Pershing36 wrote:This is absolutely unbelievable when you think about it.  There was a Police Women on Daybreak saying it is absolutely illegal and immoral to leave you kids in the car for even a few seconds as in breaks some 1930's law.  Whether it is to go to a cash machine, pay for petrol or nip into the corner shop it is no, no, no all the way.

She even banged on about lots of abductions from cars. What abductions and are there really that many?  Typical of the plod really, it is perfectly ok for two Doctors to leave kids and go out to be wined and dined every night but not for someone to take their eyes off their kids in a car for 30 secs.

I could have thrown the TV out the window listening to her dribble on. On one hand we have the police assuring us there are not gangs of sexual predators lurking around every corner (sorry TM), then they come up with this nonsense.  Is there evidence to back up all these abducted children from parked cars?

I personal don't leave my 9 year old in the car, not because I fear he would get taken, I am more worried about him playing with the handbrake etc. Far more compelling argument not to do it.
Sorry, but that made me  laugh Pershing36.   So true.    big grin

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Searcher on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:54 pm

I too raised the comparison on a radio talk programme earlier this week.  Glad to see other people have had similar thoughts; it should be raised properly.   Laurence Fox apparently left his children in the car only briefly, to collect a medicine for another of his children.  This hardly compares to three children under four being left night after night on their own, in a foreign country, in a locked / unlocked apartment.  Yet he has been villified and they have not.  wft

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:20 pm

My sulky young teenager quite often refuses to get out of the car. Why come to the shop and be seen in public with your mother, when you can sit in tbe car, turn the music up loud and play with your phone! 

One day I nipped into Tesco in a fairly rough area and somehow he set the alarm off. Despite it being really busy in tne car park, the alarm blaring and the lights flashing, no one a) checked he was OK, b) checked he wasn't stealing the car or c) abducted him. 

He was a bit red faced though and has been somewhat keener on shopping since. big grin

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:25 pm

Well I suppose that leaving your children in your car at a Tescos Car Park is like leaving your children in your car in your garden. No different really.
 ontopic ontopic ontopic 

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:40 pm

Even the fragrant LK said to her pal Aled....."we have all heard about children being left then taken haven't we,...." [ no names mentioned].
----------------------------------------------------------

Strangely this 'episode' of Daybreak, with LK 'comments' about 'children being left then taken' has been WHOOSHED/ABDUCTED!

ITV Daybreak Catch up, ...................Mon, Tues, WHOOSHED, Thu, Fri!

WHY do they even bother to do THAT?

Chances are, somebody has it all 'saved/recorded' for posterity, somewhere.

Weird, innit?

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:48 pm

I don't take that remark from the lovely Lorraine as being critical of her special friends.

She just means as I understand it that we all know that there are nasty strangers everywhere waiting to pounce on children momentarily left alone.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:49 pm

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I don't take that remark from the lovely Lorraine as being critical of her special friends.

She just means as I understand it that we all know that there are nasty strangers everywhere waiting to pounce on children momentarily left alone.

"Catch up" replay episode still 'whooshed' though!

Must have been whooshed for something else that was said, on Wednesday's show, i suppose.

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