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Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

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name for our latest suspect?

Post by worriedmum on 09.02.14 15:58

Tony Bennett quoted from the article


"I didn’t really like the man and I didn’t want trouble from him. He was always doing nasty pranks. Once he put fibreglass in my work trousers which is not nice because it rubs against the skin and hurts.''


So, are we now looking for 'Fibreglass Pranks Man'? Will this actually fit across the red-top front page?


Sorry, Okey Dokey, but I cannot take this seriously. The big problem with this latest addition to our ever-burgeoning list of 'suspects' is that awkward word, EVIDENCE.  Any defence lawyer is going to weigh up the ers, the ums, the maybes- against the the reactions of Eddie and Keela, the forensic results and the list of rather jarring inconsistencies.  

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Statement of Jose Batista

Post by justathought on 09.02.14 16:03

"That to carry out his work he sometimes needs the keys to the apartments and these are always requested from maintenance or from the OC reception. Whenever a key is requested, a register is made of the request."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_BATISTA.htm

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 16:14

MarcoG wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:

It is not possible that ANY of the stories could possibly have done so without the full-hearted consent and encouragement of Redwood and his team (and those above him, for that matter).  

Allegedly.
How is that not possible? Alledgedly.
It seems all junk. Anyone can make it up. With or without encouragement or consent.

I accept the point you make. It could be completely fabricated, e.g. by the press itself. Or by others, for whatever reason.

So could some or all of the other stories.

But given my point that Scotland Yard is nearly always named as the ultimate source for these tales, I suggest Scotland Yard must be participating or consenting.

Otherwise they could, if they wished, deny that there is any truth in this procession of stories and apparent 'leaks'.

But they don't.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by PeterMac on 09.02.14 16:20

It might though be a 'dignified silence' on their part.
It would take an entire department to counter Mitchell' lies and nonsense, and they may feel they have better things to do with their time.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by mysterion on 09.02.14 16:26

There might be police protocols about responding to msm speculation or stories. It seems so when press conferences take place.

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Undignified

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 16:36

@PeterMac wrote:It might thought be a 'dignified silence' on their part.

But they were even co-operating with the BBC in promoting ridiculous stories for public consumption before the Crimewatch Special in October, so as no doubt to maximise the BBC's audience for that McCann show. And for what?  For two e-fits hidden for over 5 years by the McCann Team (per the Sunday Times) and which weren't even drawn up by the Smiths, as Redwoood misleadingly suggested.

It would take an entire department to counter Mitchell' lies and nonsense, and they may feel they have better things to do with their time.

If Scotland Yard really wanted to kill off this succession of bogus stories, Redwood could easily do so by calling a press conference and making a short statement along the lines of:

"The Metropolitan Police thoroughly condemns those who have been circulating these stories to the press, many of which are baseless and have no foundation in fact. Speculation of this kind about what happened to Madeleine in the tabloid press and on what lines of enquiry we are claimed to be following is not only pointless but could well jeopardise promising lines of enquiry and our hopes of finding Madeleine".

Why doesn't he? Because he would be criticising himself.

As Rebekah Brooks - close friend of the top brass of the Met Police* - once said: "We are all in this together".



* See: current hacking prosecutions



 
  

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by mysterion on 09.02.14 16:50

Wasn`t the Smith efit a trap for the McCanns on Crimewatch? Therefore a ligitimate part of police work.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 17:06

@mysterion wrote:Wasn`t the Smith efit a trap for the McCanns on Crimewatch? Therefore a legitimate part of police work.

No.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by justathought on 09.02.14 17:17

May I suggest these additions/amendments to Mr Bennett's idea?.................
"The Metropolitan Police thoroughly condemns those who have been circulating these stories to the press and those in turn reporting them, many of which are baseless and have no foundation in fact. Those doing so, risk criminal or civil proceedings if found to be perverting the course of justice/committing libel. In addition, speculation of this kind about what happened to Madeleine in the media and on what lines of enquiry we are claimed to be following is not only pointless but could well jeopardise promising lines of enquiry and our hopes of finding Madeleine. To assist in minimising the damage to the search that these stories are doing. The Metropolitan Police will be giving regular updates as to the case.  ".

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by tasprin on 09.02.14 17:17

If this is not interference in an official investigation I don't know what is. Why didn't James Murray of the Express pass this info to Scotland Yard if he thought it was relevant to the inquiry? Instead he splashed it on the front page and put another individual in the frame (complete with name and photo).

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 17:42

@justathought wrote:May I suggest these additions/amendments to Mr Bennett's idea?.................
"The Metropolitan Police thoroughly condemns those who have been circulating these stories to the press and those in turn reporting them, many of which are baseless and have no foundation in fact. Those doing so, risk criminal or civil proceedings if found to be perverting the course of justice/committing libel. In addition, speculation of this kind about what happened to Madeleine in the media and on what lines of enquiry we are claimed to be following is not only pointless but could well jeopardise promising lines of enquiry and our hopes of finding Madeleine. To assist in minimising the damage to the search that these stories are doing. The Metropolitan Police will be giving regular updates as to the case.  ".

justathought:  I am very happy to accept your amendments in full

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 09.02.14 17:45

@Woofer wrote:So they came through the front door with a key, but left through the window  big grin
Impossible, they would have just opened the shutters, not jemmied them.

 Mr Mr Mr 

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 17:46

@tasprin wrote:If this is not interference in an official investigation I don't know what is. Why didn't James Murray of the Express pass this info to Scotland Yard if he thought it was relevant to the inquiry? Instead he splashed it on the front page and put another individual in the frame (complete with name and photo).

YES: Also running the risk (as has happened in dozens of other tabloid stories about Madeleine) that the real perpertrator of the abduction would go to ground, on seeing details about him splashed in tabloids read by millions.

In fact we not only have the two 'red herrings' referred to above...

...we have veritable shoals of red herring...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUi4kPgM5A

'Shoals of Herring', sung by Ireland's best-known folk group, The Dubliners

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 09.02.14 17:55

@russiandoll wrote:
@juliet wrote:Bishop Brennan makes such a good point: that people are now being persuaded that the apartment was secured and locked...

 Maybe so, but same people saw the open window and Kate doing her WHOOSH on CW.

 I have a spare set of keys to block 5. I want an under-5 girl [ more than one similar to Maddie in the group, all accessible in their locked apartments using spare keys]. Let's say access via the front made sense, car park for getaway. Unlocked patio doors not an issue.
 I simply start at the corner apartment, the first I come to, and luckily find a child of desired size and age there, I have not targeted this child at all, just been lucky, I do not have to enter any more apartments and can be away sooner than expected.

 I unlock the front door, enter, find the child.
  Do I

 a] simply pick her up and leave via the front door, which is next to the room I am in and can be in my car very quickly to drive off before I am
 discovered?

 or
  b] before picking up the child, waste time by walking around travel cots to the other side of the room, open the curtains, window and shutters, go back to get said child and repeat the journey, either passing her out to an accomplice who is  of course at the open window but also very near the door [, which I can or if alone, go through the awkward and time -consuming process of climbing onto the bed and out of the window with this child in my arms ?
Also risky if I fall. This would not be considered imo, never mind done ,if there was quick exit available via a DOOR !


 Many people will remember the tale as told by Kate and the family.....open window, curtains and shutters.

 Why on earth would this be the case, had a key been used?

  Not credible.

Perfectly credible Doll. Kate McCann is a Doctor so is going to be telling the truth about jemmied shutters, Whoosh , Clunk, red herrings ****ing tossers and engagement rings.
 empathy empathy empathy 

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Lance De Boils on 09.02.14 17:55

This latest story is yet another pile of dung, imo.

It's impossible to take it seriously. C'mon - how many different theories and suspects have we been fed during the last 7 years?
I see nothing in this fairy tale that makes it any more credible than the vast array of previous attempts to divert the public's attention.

As for the Met - I have no reason to suspect that they are the source of the bull. They've been on the case for a couple of years but these pathetic stories are not a new phenomenon. The press have been churning out this nonsense for far longer than SY have had anything to do with it.

Some have suggested that if the Met were not the source of these 'leaks'* they would (or should) deny the headlines. But why would they? It probably suits them just fine for people to be way off course with their discussions and speculation. It's not hampering their investigation and lets them get on with it whilst the public's eyes are focussed elsewhere. Besides which, to start denying some stories would be dodgy. They'd have to deny all or none if they wanted to keep their cards close to their chests. And they really haven't got time to respond to all of these stupid stories.

* 'leaks' is misleading. It implies that info has spilled out of the official investigation.  A better choice of word would be spin/borrocks/guesswork/horsesh*t.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 18:03

@Lance De Boils wrote:
Some have suggested that if the Met were not the source of these 'leaks'* they would (or should) deny the headlines. But why would they? It probably suits them just fine for people to be way off course with their discussions and speculation...

But the Met deliberately fuelled and stoked the fires of this media speculation by planting stories in the media in advance of the CrimeWatch McCann Special in October, and then by getting the public all agog during the programme with two different efits of what was supposed to be same bloke, plus images of four or five blonde men...

...and reports of maintenance men and hard-drinking mums eating fish fingers being interviewed by Scotland Yard makes the Operation Grange pretenders look as though they really are doing something with the 2 years and 9 months and £7 million-odd they've spent on the case so far...

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by mysterion on 09.02.14 18:06

I think most people stopped believing any of these stories a long time ago. They read the first 2 paras and if it doesn`t say she has been found, they move on.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by suzyjohnson on 09.02.14 18:11

@Lance De Boils wrote:Some have suggested that if the Met were not the source of these 'leaks'* they would (or should) deny the headlines. But why would they? It probably suits them just fine for people to be way off course with their discussions and speculation. It's not hampering their investigation and lets them get on with it whilst the public's eyes are focussed elsewhere.
I'm inclined to agree with you Lance De Boils, SY have to tread carefully to find the proof they need to finally discover what did happen to Madeleine and to draw this enquiry to a close.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Lance De Boils on 09.02.14 18:13

I am sitting precariously on the fence when it comes to what SY are really up to and what their motives really are.

I'm waiting to see what happens in the next 3 months.

If the 7th anniversary comes and goes without any credible progess, I think I'll find it nigh on impossible to keep my balance.

In the meantime, I'm doing my best to give them the benefit of the (many) doubt(s).

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by j.rob on 09.02.14 18:23

@Seek truth wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: now copied over from where I posted it in a reply to a member discussing a link to it on twitter ,  [ admin please delete if needlessly duplicated on different threads. ]
  posted also on Mitchell's list of suspects topic....now I wonder who made this claim re the stolen keys ?  


   

Don't read the small print about the keys, it's THE COVER UP that catches my eye and is so true!

 oh go on 

Very nice.
There are some quite strong subliminal messages here.  The idea of a 'cover up' has been introduced. Then there are two other stories on the front page plus the word 'death' or 'dies' appears in front page stories and a banner no less than three times. Plus we are talking about a whole set of keys here - the set of keys to the whole block. Not just the McCanns apartment but other apartments in the block. That's a lot of doors to unlock and lock.

Of course the burglars and the missing keys might be yet more red herrings. But on the other hand, petty burglars operating in the area, while highly unlikely to be motivated by child abduction, might nevertheless be privy to certain useful information. 

Word gets around in small communities. People who engage in criminal activity will tend to have an eye on the 'under world.' While not necessarily key players (oops!) in a major crime, they may carry out some of the donkey work (for the right price) or be prepared to turn a blind eye or assist, knowingly or otherwise, in some ways in the enactment of a crime.

If there is a death and there are those who want to cover up they may need to rely on others. Maybe even a network.

Keys are hugely symbolic. They have certainly been a major feature of this case. The whole topic of whether the apartment was locked or unlocked and/or where the keys were left in the apartment. There is massive significance in this. For if the McCann version of events is correct the abductor could well have been motivated to steal keys in order to get into the apartment and 'steal' Madeleine. An abductor could not assume that the apartment was unlocked. If the McCanns locked the apartment on other nights, but not that night, then a potential abductor might assume that it was likely to be locked on the night of the successful abduction.

It is possible that the 'missing keys' story is designed to boost the (flagging) McCann abduction theory. It might be seen to provide some kind of 'evidence' that a third party wanted to get hold of the keys in order to get into the McCanns apartment and steal a child. But that seems very lame. Still, if staff at the resort were feeling paranoid about possibly been seen as suspects or even potential 'abductors' you can see why something like that might not be reported. 

A more interesting perspective perhaps would focus on Gerry's obsession with keys in this case. He repeatedly speaks in terms of 'unlocking what happened', or 'the key' to what happened. As others have noted, this appears to suggest that keys are highly significant to Gerry and Kate and and will 'unlock' something unknown - either to themselves or to others.

Keys unlock apartment doors, they lock other apartment doors, they open other apartments. (The McCanns were given keys to the church by the priest.) Didn't at least one of the Portugese police believe that the 10 or 12 elements of (the Tapas and wider friends/acquaintances) that had access to each others apartments might be the crucial to the enquiry? A missing set of keys could play a part in this, maybe?

If someone or people had been involved in the death of a child and they wanted to cover it up, for whatever reason, keys or sets of keys might feature quite highly.

Even if only on a symbolic level, I think a missing set of keys introduces a new dimension. It may be that someone or several people at OC holds a key, or even a whole set of keys (even if only metaphorically) to helping unravel the mystery.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.02.14 18:26

@Lance De Boils wrote:I am sitting precariously on the fence when it comes to what SY are really up to and what their motives really are.

I'm waiting to see what happens in the next 3 months.

If the 7th anniversary comes and goes without any credible progess, I think I'll find it nigh on impossible to keep my balance.

In the meantime, I'm doing my best to give them the benefit of the (many) doubt(s).

I think you would make a very good defence barrister.

"Jury, unless you are absolutely sure that this Operation Grange thing is a whitewash, you cannot possibly bring in a verdict against them. The Met Police have a proud and honourable record. I rest my case".

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Cristobell on 09.02.14 18:37

@j.rob wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: now copied over from where I posted it in a reply to a member discussing a link to it on twitter ,  [ admin please delete if needlessly duplicated on different threads. ]
  posted also on Mitchell's list of suspects topic....now I wonder who made this claim re the stolen keys ?  


   

Don't read the small print about the keys, it's THE COVER UP that catches my eye and is so true!

 oh go on 

Very nice.
There are some quite strong subliminal messages here.  The idea of a 'cover up' has been introduced. Then there are two other stories on the front page plus the word 'death' or 'dies' appears in front page stories and a banner no less than three times. Plus we are talking about a whole set of keys here - the set of keys to the whole block. Not just the McCanns apartment but other apartments in the block. That's a lot of doors to unlock and lock.

Of course the burglars and the missing keys might be yet more red herrings. But on the other hand, petty burglars operating in the area, while highly unlikely to be motivated by child abduction, might nevertheless be privy to certain useful information. 

Word gets around in small communities. People who engage in criminal activity will tend to have an eye on the 'under world.' While not necessarily key players (oops!) in a major crime, they may carry out some of the donkey work (for the right price) or be prepared to turn a blind eye or assist, knowingly or otherwise, in some ways in the enactment of a crime.

If there is a death and there are those who want to cover up they may need to rely on others. Maybe even a network.

Keys are hugely symbolic. They have certainly been a major feature of this case. The whole topic of whether the apartment was locked or unlocked and/or where the keys were left in the apartment. There is massive significance in this. For if the McCann version of events is correct the abductor could well have been motivated to steal keys in order to get into the apartment and 'steal' Madeleine. An abductor could not assume that the apartment was unlocked. If the McCanns locked the apartment on other nights, but not that night, then a potential abductor might assume that it was likely to be locked on the night of the successful abduction.

It is possible that the 'missing keys' story is designed to boost the (flagging) McCann abduction theory. It might be seen to provide some kind of 'evidence' that a third party wanted to get hold of the keys in order to get into the McCanns apartment and steal a child. But that seems very lame. Still, if staff at the resort were feeling paranoid about possibly been seen as suspects or even potential 'abductors' you can see why something like that might not be reported. 

A more interesting perspective perhaps would focus on Gerry's obsession with keys in this case. He repeatedly speaks in terms of 'unlocking what happened', or 'the key' to what happened. As others have noted, this appears to suggest that keys are highly significant to Gerry and Kate and and will 'unlock' something unknown - either to themselves or to others.

Keys unlock apartment doors, they lock other apartment doors, they open other apartments. (The McCanns were given keys to the church by the priest.) Didn't at least one of the Portugese police believe that the 10 or 12 elements of (the Tapas and wider friends/acquaintances) that had access to each others apartments might be the crucial to the enquiry? A missing set of keys could play a part in this, maybe?

If someone or people had been involved in the death of a child and they wanted to cover it up, for whatever reason, keys or sets of keys might feature quite highly.

Even if only on a symbolic level, I think a missing set of keys introduces a new dimension. It may be that someone or several people at OC holds a key, or even a whole set of keys (even if only metaphorically) to helping unravel the mystery.







Keys may have been given to someone else to enter the apartment when the parents were out, perhaps these are the key keys!

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by suzyjohnson on 09.02.14 18:44

@Lance De Boils wrote:I am sitting precariously on the fence when it comes to what SY are really up to and what their motives really are.

In the meantime, I'm doing my best to give them the benefit of the (many) doubt(s).
 Me too, I am assuming that SY have some intelligence and are not about to makes idiots of themselves across the entire world.

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by Garrincha on 09.02.14 18:53

Hello again j.rob – I find your reference to subliminal messages interesting - the details of the Express story itself do not seem to me to justify a banner headline about a “COVER UP”, so I am inclined to believe this is a “teaser” of some kind, designed to send a message to someone, somewhere….

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Re: Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Post by j.rob on 09.02.14 19:08

@Cristobell wrote:
@j.rob wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: now copied over from where I posted it in a reply to a member discussing a link to it on twitter ,  [ admin please delete if needlessly duplicated on different threads. ]
  posted also on Mitchell's list of suspects topic....now I wonder who made this claim re the stolen keys ?  


   

Don't read the small print about the keys, it's THE COVER UP that catches my eye and is so true!

 oh go on 

Very nice.
There are some quite strong subliminal messages here.  The idea of a 'cover up' has been introduced. Then there are two other stories on the front page plus the word 'death' or 'dies' appears in front page stories and a banner no less than three times. Plus we are talking about a whole set of keys here - the set of keys to the whole block. Not just the McCanns apartment but other apartments in the block. That's a lot of doors to unlock and lock.

Of course the burglars and the missing keys might be yet more red herrings. But on the other hand, petty burglars operating in the area, while highly unlikely to be motivated by child abduction, might nevertheless be privy to certain useful information. 

Word gets around in small communities. People who engage in criminal activity will tend to have an eye on the 'under world.' While not necessarily key players (oops!) in a major crime, they may carry out some of the donkey work (for the right price) or be prepared to turn a blind eye or assist, knowingly or otherwise, in some ways in the enactment of a crime.

If there is a death and there are those who want to cover up they may need to rely on others. Maybe even a network.

Keys are hugely symbolic. They have certainly been a major feature of this case. The whole topic of whether the apartment was locked or unlocked and/or where the keys were left in the apartment. There is massive significance in this. For if the McCann version of events is correct the abductor could well have been motivated to steal keys in order to get into the apartment and 'steal' Madeleine. An abductor could not assume that the apartment was unlocked. If the McCanns locked the apartment on other nights, but not that night, then a potential abductor might assume that it was likely to be locked on the night of the successful abduction.

It is possible that the 'missing keys' story is designed to boost the (flagging) McCann abduction theory. It might be seen to provide some kind of 'evidence' that a third party wanted to get hold of the keys in order to get into the McCanns apartment and steal a child. But that seems very lame. Still, if staff at the resort were feeling paranoid about possibly been seen as suspects or even potential 'abductors' you can see why something like that might not be reported. 

A more interesting perspective perhaps would focus on Gerry's obsession with keys in this case. He repeatedly speaks in terms of 'unlocking what happened', or 'the key' to what happened. As others have noted, this appears to suggest that keys are highly significant to Gerry and Kate and and will 'unlock' something unknown - either to themselves or to others.

Keys unlock apartment doors, they lock other apartment doors, they open other apartments. (The McCanns were given keys to the church by the priest.) Didn't at least one of the Portugese police believe that the 10 or 12 elements of (the Tapas and wider friends/acquaintances) that had access to each others apartments might be the crucial to the enquiry? A missing set of keys could play a part in this, maybe?

If someone or people had been involved in the death of a child and they wanted to cover it up, for whatever reason, keys or sets of keys might feature quite highly.

Even if only on a symbolic level, I think a missing set of keys introduces a new dimension. It may be that someone or several people at OC holds a key, or even a whole set of keys (even if only metaphorically) to helping unravel the mystery.







Keys may have been given to someone else to enter the apartment when the parents were out, perhaps these are the key keys!  
Key keys! Yes indeed. If a whole bunch of keys to the block were stolen (are these not called skeleton keys?) then that might tie in with the burglar stuff. A burglar might witness things or have information that might be useful. Or someone else might.

On the other hand, they could have been stolen by someone or people who had other reasons for wanting to enter one or more of the apartments in the block.

And Gerry did go on and on about 'someone holding the key'. Which, at the very least, suggests that key/s are a sensitive issue.

Still, it is possible it is yet another red herring. Something that has been conveniently dropped in just to keep the story going.  And even if the story is true, it may not be relevant to what happened to Madeleine.

j.rob

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