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Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by bobbin on 10.02.14 8:38

@Portia wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:As Kate delegated the task of cancelling the online shop delivery to Auntie Janet on Friday 4 May 2007, it may be she had more pressing matters on her mind when she called her dear friend Amanda in the very early hours and that those matters were more pressing than actively participating in the search for her daughter.

Like urgently consulting her cleaners ' pathologist mate about a little medical problem arisen on holiday, you mean?

or both, but in reverse order....little medical problem and then cleaning.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by tiny on 10.02.14 8:42

early morning call,husband a pathologist, hmmm,I think Amanda and husband should be questioned by sy asap.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Woofer on 10.02.14 8:50

IMO it could be quite relevant that Amanda`s partner is a member of Erowid which is  "a non-profit educational organization that provides information about psychoactive plants and chemicals as well as activities that can produce altered states of consciousness such as meditation and lucid dreaming.
Erowid documents legal and illegal substances, including their intended and adverse effects."

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by bobbin on 10.02.14 9:25

@Woofer wrote:IMO it could be quite relevant that Amanda`s partner is a member of Erowid which is  "a non-profit educational organization that provides information about psychoactive plants and chemicals as well as activities that can produce altered states of consciousness such as meditation and lucid dreaming.
Erowid documents legal and illegal substances, including their intended and adverse effects."
I found the site for Erowid but haven't yet found reference to Whit(t)aker's involvement.
Where did you find this info, I'd like to look, thanks.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Woofer on 10.02.14 9:30

@bobbin wrote:
@Woofer wrote:IMO it could be quite relevant that Amanda`s partner is a member of Erowid which is  "a non-profit educational organization that provides information about psychoactive plants and chemicals as well as activities that can produce altered states of consciousness such as meditation and lucid dreaming.
Erowid documents legal and illegal substances, including their intended and adverse effects."
I found the site for Erowid but haven't yet found reference to Whit(t)aker's involvement.
Where did you find this info, I'd like to look, thanks.

This link is of Erowid Minutes for a meeting in 1999. Go to the bottom of the Minutes under `Applications for Membership` and he is listed there.  I`ll see if I can find more Minutes to say he was accepted.
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/countries/uk/uk_misuse_phen_2.shtml

ETA Cannot find any Minutes, but it seems the above minutes have been included in the Erowid site but are actually minutes from a meeting of the LTG London Toxicology Group.  Whatever he seems to be interested in toxic stuff.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by russiandoll on 10.02.14 9:48

from the letter : It should be about..


 a beautiful, innocent little girl who is still missing.

 If I had been reading this at the time, I would have expected the words  "my beloved missing daughter, "  personal and deeply felt, either added to or as a replacement for the above, which could have been written by a journalist who was a detached observer of events, with no relationship to the vanished child.


 If Kate McCann could be separated from her other half for a decent length of time, so was not under his influence, and was then questioned firmly but with sensitivity by a shrewd and experienced detective, the truth would be out very quickly imo.

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Guest on 10.02.14 11:57

@tiny wrote:early morning call,husband a pathologist, hmmm,I think Amanda and husband should be questioned by sy asap.

Tiny, I have realised from your post that this was an early morning call, not one of the calls which was made to friends/family after Madeleine was reported missing. According to another forum, the call times predate her reported missing. Website and relevant snippets below:

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/m/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Creating-a-Timeline-by-what-they-AVOID-and-not-what-they-tell-us-2-796633.html
 


Calls the following morning...(deleted from phone but show on the antenna report)
 
Dial: 02 May 07.36 Amanda Mobile
Dial: 02 May 07.36 Amanda Mobile (yes a few seconds after)
Rec: 02 May 07.50 Amanda Mobile
Rec: 02 May 08.50 ? ---010
Dial: 02 May 08.53 ? ---010 (yes the same number)
Rec: 02 May 11.22 ?
Rec: 02 May 20.05 ? --624
Rec: 02 May 20,08 ? --624


Amanda is Kate's friend. Does anyone know her husbands profession?



TinLizzy posted on 05/29/2010 9:23 PM

---------------------------------------------- Husband of Amanda Coxon:

Dr Paul Whitaker, chemical pathologist in Leicester. KM texted Amanda, and received a return text, at
0736 on 2 May. Wiped from KM's mobile history - the first of several
deletions on 2 and 3 May. (There may have been others before 2 May, but
as the records have been withheld, we wouldn't know). KM rang their
home number at 0605 on 4 May, and a conversation ensued for 11 minutes.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by tiny on 10.02.14 12:28

MILLIE wrote:
@tiny wrote:early morning call,husband a pathologist, hmmm,I think Amanda and husband should be questioned by sy asap.

Tiny, I have realised from your post that this was an early morning call, not one of the calls which was made to friends/family after Madeleine was reported missing. According to another forum, the call times predate her reported missing. Website and relevant snippets below:

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/m/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Creating-a-Timeline-by-what-they-AVOID-and-not-what-they-tell-us-2-796633.html
 


Calls the following morning...(deleted from phone but show on the antenna report)
 
Dial: 02 May 07.36 Amanda Mobile
Dial: 02 May 07.36 Amanda Mobile (yes a few seconds after)
Rec: 02 May 07.50 Amanda Mobile
Rec: 02 May 08.50 ? ---010
Dial: 02 May 08.53 ? ---010 (yes the same number)
Rec: 02 May 11.22 ?
Rec: 02 May 20.05 ? --624
Rec: 02 May 20,08 ? --624


Amanda is Kate's friend. Does anyone know her husbands profession?



TinLizzy posted on 05/29/2010 9:23 PM

---------------------------------------------- Husband of Amanda Coxon:

Dr Paul Whitaker, chemical pathologist in Leicester. KM texted Amanda, and received a return text, at
0736 on 2 May. Wiped from KM's mobile history - the first of several
deletions on 2 and 3 May. (There may have been others before 2 May, but
as the records have been withheld, we wouldn't know). KM rang their
home number at 0605 on 4 May, and a conversation ensued for 11 minutes.
I still say they should be question,because something might have happend to Madeleine on the 2nd.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Guest on 10.02.14 13:01

Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Woofer on 10.02.14 13:16

MILLIE wrote:Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

I agree as well - I`d forgotten that they spoke on the 2nd.  This would make sense if MBM had accidentally ingested something toxic - what better person to contact than Whitaker.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by j.rob on 10.02.14 13:20

@ultimaThule wrote:
@whmon wrote:Not quite sure how to do this, at the bottom of this thread is a 'similar topics' section. One of them is entitled 'Heartfelt letter from Kate Mccann' (or words to that effect.) I can't seem to link the post as it comes up as an outside article rather than a topic

One thing I often do is subsume my child's name in place of the name Madeleine when reading things the parents have said, in order to get a grip on their mindset. In the case of this letter, I can't help but feel that it is written as an attempt to try to prove innocence. It is too short, the paragraphs are too spaced out to try to make it look as if more has been said (suggesting to me the author is trying to gloss over) and there is no emotion there. Can you imagine the letter you would have written if you genuinely lost your own child?
I can't imagine writing a letter under these circumstances as I would be camped outside of this man's office ready to throw myself round his ankles the moment he appeared. 

Fwiw, any 'heartfelt' pleas made by Kate, Gerry, or their assorted relatives, have served to convince me that none of them have hearts of a type which I regard as being human, which is a tad ironic given the wee one's choice of medical speciality. 

Maybe cardiologists who view the heart simply as one of the major organs of the body have a clinical advantage over those of their colleagues who continue to view it as the seat of a range of human emotions but, be that as it may, IMO there was and is no place in whatever passes for Dr Gerald Patrick McCann's heart for his daughter, Madeleine.
Excellent post! I too have pondered long and hard over the irony of Gerry' s speciality. But as a general observation, I find that doctors can be remarkably emotionally detached and unempathetic. Perhaps because there is a need to emotionally disengage when dealing with patients in order to deal with the stress of it. And some people lack empathy. One of my children went through a very difficult medical situation (in which there was some negligence although it was denied and covered up which is far from unusual) and I was shocked by how detached many of the medics were. Once there has been a cover-up, you find yourself with no-one to turn so the initial negligence is compounded by not getting optimal treatment as no-one will admit the original error. It was quite an eye-opener. But I could write a book about all that. 

My theory as to why Madeleine was 'at the bottom of all this' is that, once the twins came long, the McCanns had a ready-made family and the McCanns either didn't want to or couldn't deal with the reality of having to deal with a toddler who would probably be fighting desperately for attention once twins came along - which would be entirely normal. In order to handle this type of situation sensitively it takes an adult close to the child (preferably a parent but it could be a grandparent or other carer) to take extra interest and care of the child so he or she does not feel displaced by the arrival of two siblings simultaneously. Twins are very hard work and emotionally and physically demanding. 

Plus there may well be issues arising from Madeleine being born via IVF. This is also a very, very stressful procedure. And were there issues around whether Gerry was the biological father? There was a newspaper article about that, wasn't there? Or was it Carter-Rucked?

But what I don't understand is that the McCanns had quite large family networks and also had money. That makes a huge difference.

Still, in my opinion they are narcissistic so maybe Madeleine just didn't fit into their idea of a 'perfect family'. 

The phone calls to Amanda Coxon (is it true she was their cleaner - in which case perhaps Kate needed some cleaning tips along with other advice) are intriguing, as is her relationship with Dr Paul Whitaker who would know a thing or two about toxicology (which I believe was always a key issue in this case). That the McCanns brought it up themselves suggests, to me, that they would have a cover in the event that the twins were medically examined and were found to be drugged. (And it is extraordinary that this did not happen as I do believe it would have done, were not the parents doctors themselves, which is somewhat ironic!) Or possibly if Madeleine was found to be drugged before she disappeared. 

Dr Whitaker seems to have got himself in a dreadful pickle though what with falsifying his qualifications. Interesting that he was unable to wangle his way out of that one - perhaps he had a few enemies and the troops were not prepared to rally round, as they appear to have done for the McCanns. Assuming this is the same Whitaker.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Guest on 10.02.14 13:26

@Woofer wrote:
MILLIE wrote:Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

I agree as well - I`d forgotten that they spoke on the 2nd.  This would make sense if MBM had accidentally ingested something toxic - what better person to contact than Whitaker.

Could be interesting to investigate Whitakers' subsequent activities a/o phone traffic with KH/GM in the following days.

Strange Kate forgot to mention this good mans' qualifications when mentioning her good friend Amanda, isn't it?
Why would she have done so?

And also: as Fiona was the nr. one girlfriend, why didn't Kate involve her too, on May 2nd?
Did Fionas' husband lack the necessary skills, needed on May 2nd?

How clever of the forum member to ferret out Amanda cum suis!

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by diatribe on 10.02.14 13:40

@russiandoll wrote:


 If Kate McCann could be separated from her other half for a decent length of time, so was not under his influence, and was then questioned firmly but with sensitivity by a shrewd and experienced detective, the truth would be out very quickly imo.

Not if she pays the remotest attention to one of her many lawyers , it wouldn't. I think it far more likely a 'shrewd and experienced' detective under the 'sensitive' conditions you refer to might get the following response from Gerry notme 

 big grin  big grin

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by ultimaThule on 10.02.14 13:42

@Woofer wrote:
MILLIE wrote:Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

I agree as well - I`d forgotten that they spoke on the 2nd.  This would make sense if MBM had accidentally ingested something toxic - what better person to contact than Whitaker.
If MBM had 'accidentally ingested something toxic' the best person to contact would be the ambulance service operator. 

Fwiw, if MBM sustained an accidental injury which proved fatal, I cannot imagine any circumstances where there would be need to conceal her death.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Guest on 10.02.14 13:45

According to Amanda C's statement, she considers herself a good friend of Kate; "After their return from Portugal we became very close".


Unfortunately there is no mention in the statement though of any subjects discussed, let alone any telephone contact between herself and KM during the holiday.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by diatribe on 10.02.14 13:49

j.rob




But what I don't understand is that the McCanns had quite large family networks and also had money. That makes a huge difference.




I don't believe they did have much money and that like most middle class working families in the UK, they were strapped up to the eyeballs in debt prior to their fortuitous Benevolent Foundation.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Woofer on 10.02.14 14:17

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
MILLIE wrote:Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

I agree as well - I`d forgotten that they spoke on the 2nd.  This would make sense if MBM had accidentally ingested something toxic - what better person to contact than Whitaker.
If MBM had 'accidentally ingested something toxic' the best person to contact would be the ambulance service operator. 

Fwiw, if MBM sustained an accidental injury which proved fatal, I cannot imagine any circumstances where there would be need to conceal her death.

Exactly ..... unless it was a prohibited substance that would finish them off career-wise.  I agree most people would put their child`s survival well before their career, but who knows with this lot.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Guest on 10.02.14 14:29

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
MILLIE wrote:Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

I agree as well - I`d forgotten that they spoke on the 2nd.  This would make sense if MBM had accidentally ingested something toxic - what better person to contact than Whitaker.
If MBM had 'accidentally ingested something toxic' the best person to contact would be the ambulance service operator. 

Fwiw, if MBM sustained an accidental injury which proved fatal, I cannot imagine any circumstances where there would be need to conceal her death.

Precisely: an accidental injury

If -say- a 'Page 129' injury, incurred when the child cried 'Daddy, Daddy' for an extended period of time, then it could be a different matter altogether

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by ultimaThule on 10.02.14 14:33

@russiandoll wrote:from the letter : It should be about..


 a beautiful, innocent little girl who is still missing.

 If I had been reading this at the time, I would have expected the words  "my beloved missing daughter, "  personal and deeply felt, either added to or as a replacement for the above, which could have been written by a journalist who was a detached observer of events, with no relationship to the vanished child.


 If Kate McCann could be separated from her other half for a decent length of time, so was not under his influence, and was then questioned firmly but with sensitivity by a shrewd and experienced detective, the truth would be out very quickly imo.

I recently cast my mind back to the McCanns' first appearance on the world stage on the evening of 4 May 2007 and took another look at the footage of their performance.  

Their fear was palpable.  Gerry clutched his little piece of paper with both hands as if his life depended on it, while his spouse stood frozen by his side looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights.   Who can forget the moment when Gerry followed his written instruction to 'put arm round wife'?

Had they been separated at that point and questioned by shrewd and experienced detectives who were not handicapped by a language barrier, I have no doubt Kate would have given it up while the wee one would have continued to bluff and bluster long after the body was uncovered.

However, within a matter of a days Kate revealed herself as being as brazen as her spouse but, while his supercilious look of disdain for those he considers his inferiors was plain for all to see, she set her features into the mournful mask of a sorrowing madonna which most effectively disguised that innate slyness which very occasionally gave the lie to her appearance. 

IMO Gerald Patrick McCann is driven to be a risk taker; daring to go where other mortals fear to tread and returning triumphant is the fundamental means by which he nurtures and sustains his belief that he is a superior being.  His spouse is also drawn to thrill seeking behaviour but she is more calculating, electing to follow  tried and tested footsteps rather than put herself at risk by leading the way into uncharted territory. 

Also IMO, Kate Marie McCann either caused the death of her eldest daughter, or knows who did, and she will take the knowledge she has kept to herself for the past nigh on 7 years to the grave as to do otherwise will reveal her to be one of history's most inhuman of mothers whose name will always be spoken of with revulsion by all rightminded individuals.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by ultimaThule on 10.02.14 14:58

@Woofer wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
MILLIE wrote:Yes I agree with you, tiny. As you say, something could have happened to M on 2nd. I was just clearing up that my first impression was that KM had rung AC the night Madeleine went.

I agree as well - I`d forgotten that they spoke on the 2nd.  This would make sense if MBM had accidentally ingested something toxic - what better person to contact than Whitaker.
If MBM had 'accidentally ingested something toxic' the best person to contact would be the ambulance service operator. 

Fwiw, if MBM sustained an accidental injury which proved fatal, I cannot imagine any circumstances where there would be need to conceal her death.

Exactly ..... unless it was a prohibited substance that would finish them off career-wise.  I agree most people would put their child`s survival well before their career, but who knows with this lot.
Even if the 'prohibited substance' was a class A drug of the type that a part-time locum GP may have administered to a terminally ill patient and forgotten she'd put a couple of full syringes in her handbag for safekeeping until her child came across them and decided to 'play doctors' by injecting herself, or fell on the sharp end of one in such a manner that it caused it to discharge its contents, I cannot imagine that any medically trained minds which conjured up and staged an abduction as a means of concealing a death would have any difficulty in manufacturing a convincing story which could be told in any language.   

Children die of preventable accidents every day and it is extremely rare for their parents/carers to meet with anything other than sympathy from the police and coroners.  Furthermore, such is the self-regulating nature of the BMA, a criminal conviction is no bar to entry on the register of doctors.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by russiandoll on 10.02.14 15:42

@diatribe wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:


 If Kate McCann could be separated from her other half for a decent length of time, so was not under his influence, and was then questioned firmly but with sensitivity by a shrewd and experienced detective, the truth would be out very quickly imo.

Not if she pays the remotest attention to one of her many lawyers , it wouldn't. I think it far more likely a 'shrewd and experienced' detective under the 'sensitive' conditions you refer to might get the following response from Gerry notme 

 big grin  big grin


  BUT I MEANT THIS KIND OF SENSITIVE AND SHREWD DETECTIVE......





   

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Praia on 10.02.14 15:54

Amanda has been discussed before and for me, a big question was why, if her husband had a well paid job, was Amanda working as a cleaner for the McCann's???

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Guest on 10.02.14 15:57

@Praia wrote:Amanda has been discussed before and for me, a big question was why, if her husband had a well paid job, was Amanda working as a cleaner for the McCann's???

Maybe because they lived in an oversized house?

No, but seriously. With three very young children and a part time job, it's perfectly normal to have someone tidy up after you.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by Praia on 10.02.14 16:23

I did not mean that. Amanda is married to a man with a well paying job. Why did she work as a scivvy?? I don't buy it. Now if she was a carer for the children, maybe.

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Re: Kate McCann's friend 'Amanda'

Post by j.rob on 10.02.14 16:40

If there were any suspicions at all from any quarters that Madeleine and/or the twins had been sedated or that a predator (as suggested) had entered the apartment with the purpose of stealing a child, then it is nothing short of astounding that ALL of the children were not taken to hospital to be examined. Toxicology tests would have revealed the presence of tranquilizers, for instance. And if a sexual predator had been in the apartment, then why on earth were the twins not checked out?

Sexual predators can be devious and professional rank can be used to hide criminality under a cloak of respectability.

This man managed to get a job as a police surgeon despite previous accusations of sexual assault on children. He worked for Hampshire police examining victims of crime. I remember reading about this shocking case in the BMJ. It seems that he befriended the children and, because of his status as a police doctor, the parents allowed the children to go to a 'sleep-over' at his house. He laced their dessert with tranquilizers. From the story in the BMJ, I think the only reason he got caught was because one of the parents, on picking up the girl from his home in the morning, noticed she was strangely drowsy. She took her to hospital and it was found she had been sedated the evening before at the 'sleep over'. So he only got caught because he obviously miscalculated the dosage of the tranquilizer, leaving the child suspiciously sleepy the next morning.

Notice the judge's comment that 'his behaviour cast a shadow over the entire medical profession.'

He worked as a doctor for 27 years. Police officers described his deviousness and total refusal to cooperate with the police investigation.  His computer file had a long list of girls' names on it. 

 http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jun/09/childrensservices.childprotection

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