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Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by diatribe on 03.02.14 23:02

@PeterMac wrote:So we are now looking for a Deceased Black Gypsy Bus driver . .


---and tomorrow, we'll be looking for a black homosexual jewish cab driver, next week we'll make paper animals.

Does anyone ever buy these papers anymore, after all, one can look at the pics. online for free.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by joti26 on 03.02.14 23:05

So did Gypsy burglar bus driver crash into tractor man then ?  banghead

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by haroldd2 on 03.02.14 23:47

Not just a gipsy tractor-driver, but a member of a mysterious group of fishermen.

This is from the Daily Mail, 3 Feb: "Madeleine McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from holiday home where three year-old was snatched in 2007'":
According to The Sun, officers are now also understood to be investigating a site in the area of Meia Praia along with another site 30 miles away.

A Briton who has a holiday home near where the McCann family stayed in Praia da Luz told the paper officers from Scotland Yard had asked him about Meia Praia.

He said: 'They wanted to know everything that I knew about the people living there.'

Meia Praia is also believed to be home to a group of fishermen who moved into the area about 40 years ago.

Scotland Yard were unable to confirm reports of the two sites being investigated."
Imagine a newspaper which isn't the Sun taking stories from the Sun!

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by watendlath on 04.02.14 5:23

@jeanmonroe wrote:"I really hope that the police get Maddie back. To the people who critisize the cost or effort that the british police are putting in, how would you feel if this was your child"?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dunno.
I'd just ask the parents of all other 'missing' people who have NOT had the cost or effort, by the British Police, not 'put in' to finding their 'missing' family member.

I wonder how they 'feel' about that?

Millions of £££'s for Madeleine, NO ££'s for them!

You, ask THEM how they 'feel'!

ALL for 'one' and NONE for 'all'!

Exactly. I think most people would just expect the police to do as much as they do for anyone in that situation, but no more than that.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by NickE on 04.02.14 20:14

Iám running a security company(CCTV) and the Police here in Stockhom have made interviews with 100 burglars.
One question was about how they get in and out at a break in
90 of them prefer break IN through the window and get OUT through the door. 
There was no damage to the window in Madeleine's bedroom,I think the window teory is out of the question.
If they had brought the girl from the apartment it would have been through the patio door,not through the window,I have no doubt about that.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by russiandoll on 05.02.14 11:10

with thanks to [email=Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt]Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt[/email]  [ swept under the carpet ]  :   Monday, 3rd February 2014.


Robbers, gypsys, tractormen. The UK media - fuelled by the Master Manipulator - is on the rampage again.

Some more serious reports emerging from Portugal can hardly drown the incessant noise. We learned over the weekend that it is not Mitchell's three robbers they are after (quelle surprise) but some workers from the Ocean's Club. Nobody official ever mentioned that they are suspects. So what is Redwood after?

The much more reliable portuguese media is telling us today:



Judiciary looks for driver from the hotel where Maddie disappeared from
...
The man, who is single and may now be 40 years old...

 In the files we have only two statements of drivers, and only one that fits the age.

If we dive further into the files (something no respected british journo is ever going to stoop to) we find his mobile number in the original statement taken by the Policia Judiciaria. Another search through the list of phone contacts compiled from the data of three mobile phone providers for the time between 21:45 and 22:15 - a time even the PJ seemed extremely interested in - reveals that this driver made one phonecall exactly at 21:51 a time that fits in perfectly with the timespan Andy Redwood refused to define as being still a part of the group's dinner.

His timeline for the movements of the group stopped at 21:40 and after having eliminated the non-existent Tannerman in favour of the elusive Crecheman, there is only Kate's insistence about the time of the alert of 22:00 that separates Gerry from a missing alibi for his meeting with the Smith family.

So it seems crucial that the time between 21:40 and 22:00 is subjected to extreme scrutiny and any employee or fellow holidaymaker that might have had knowledge of a search for a missing girl BEFORE 22:00 could make or break Redwood's case.

Thumbs up for the thoroughness with which SY is apparently checking that timespan and I hope that the idiots from the Mirror, the Sun, Sky and the Mail will stop copying the case endangering rubbish Clarence Mitchell throws them and instead start looking at the files and apply some common sense.

One can dream afterall...

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by Bishop Brennan on 05.02.14 12:49

goodpost  Excellent bit of research there!

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by sami on 05.02.14 13:02

@russiandoll wrote:with thanks to [email=Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt]Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt[/email]  [ swept under the carpet ]  :   Monday, 3rd February 2014.

So it seems crucial that the time between 21:40 and 22:00 is subjected to extreme scrutiny and any employee or fellow holidaymaker that might have had knowledge of a search for a missing girl BEFORE 22:00 could make or break Redwood's case.

I have taken the link and quote below from MissDaisy, on the 5j thread here.  I hope that's ok MissDaisy.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm
He is Dutch and was informed by another Dutch man of the disappearance between 21:30-21:40 near the Baptista.
It might be nothing to do with it but wasn't there a clip in the Crimewatch reconstruction of two German/Dutch sounding men?

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by sami on 05.02.14 13:45

@MissDaisy wrote:That's OK Sami
 thanks

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by jeanmonroe on 05.02.14 13:49

@sami wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:with thanks to [email=Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt]Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt[/email]  [ swept under the carpet ]  :   Monday, 3rd February 2014.

So it seems crucial that the time between 21:40 and 22:00 is subjected to extreme scrutiny and any employee or fellow holidaymaker that might have had knowledge of a search for a missing girl BEFORE 22:00 could make or break Redwood's case.

I have taken the link and quote below from Daisy, on the 5j thread here.  I hope that's ok Daisy.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm
He is Dutch and was informed by another Dutch man of the disappearance between 21:30-21:40 near the Baptista.
It might be nothing to do with it but wasn't there a clip in the Crimewatch reconstruction of two German/Dutch sounding men?

SO, who raised the alarm 20-30 minutes BEFORE KM 'discovering and running back to the tapas' at 10pm?

Searches already 'underway' 10-15 minutes BEFORE alarm 'raised' by KM.

(in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine.
He then went to the place where the events occurred (5A) which was at about 21.45 - 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present.)

MW staff ALREADY 'present'?

WHO of the T9 were 'away' from the tapas table between 9:30pm-10pm whilst searches were already 'underway' at 9:35-9:40pm?

MO, R O'B and JT 'relieving' R O'B but NOT 'seeing' local people and MW staff around 5A that she walked passed.?

Strange also then, that R O'B and MO didn't mention seeing people 'searching', 15 minutes BEFORE Madeleine was 'discovered' missing by KM, on the 2 handwritten timelines by R O'B.

But how could they know that people were already 'searching' around 5A, at 9:45-9:50pm when Madeleine had not been 'abducted'........ YET, according to KM!

Curiouser and Curiouser.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by SchrodingersBody on 05.02.14 13:51

@russiandoll wrote:with thanks to [email=Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt]Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt[/email]  [ swept under the carpet ]  :   Monday, 3rd February 2014.


Robbers, gypsys, tractormen. The UK media - fuelled by the Master Manipulator - is on the rampage again.

Some more serious reports emerging from Portugal can hardly drown the incessant noise. We learned over the weekend that it is not Mitchell's three robbers they are after (quelle surprise) but some workers from the Ocean's Club. Nobody official ever mentioned that they are suspects. So what is Redwood after?

The much more reliable portuguese media is telling us today:



Judiciary looks for driver from the hotel where Maddie disappeared from
...
The man, who is single and may now be 40 years old...

 In the files we have only two statements of drivers, and only one that fits the age.

If we dive further into the files (something no respected british journo is ever going to stoop to) we find his mobile number in the original statement taken by the Policia Judiciaria. Another search through the list of phone contacts compiled from the data of three mobile phone providers for the time between 21:45 and 22:15 - a time even the PJ seemed extremely interested in - reveals that this driver made one phonecall exactly at 21:51 a time that fits in perfectly with the timespan Andy Redwood refused to define as being still a part of the group's dinner.

His timeline for the movements of the group stopped at 21:40 and after having eliminated the non-existent Tannerman in favour of the elusive Crecheman, there is only Kate's insistence about the time of the alert of 22:00 that separates Gerry from a missing alibi for his meeting with the Smith family.

So it seems crucial that the time between 21:40 and 22:00 is subjected to extreme scrutiny and any employee or fellow holidaymaker that might have had knowledge of a search for a missing girl BEFORE 22:00 could make or break Redwood's case.

Thumbs up for the thoroughness with which SY is apparently checking that timespan and I hope that the idiots from the Mirror, the Sun, Sky and the Mail will stop copying the case endangering rubbish Clarence Mitchell throws them and instead start looking at the files and apply some common sense.

One can dream afterall...
Nicely put together.....

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by ultimaThule on 05.02.14 14:35

And this is where it begins to go very wrong for the McCanns as independent witnesses have them in the Tapas Bar at 8pm with all of their pals assembled by 8.30pm and Dianne Webster sitting alone at their table at c9.30pm after news of Madeleine's disappearance had begun to circulate to MW staff and the wider community. 

Perhaps the discrepancies between the times given in statements of independent witnesses and those given by the McCanns and their chums can be explained by Clarence Mitchell's assertion that none of the group were wearing watches but, given the elimination of Tannerman, it would seem that the only remaining opportunity between 9.50-9.53pm for an unknown party or parties to gain access to 5A, sedate 3 sleeping children, abduct Madeleine from her bed and make off with her on foot in the direction of the Smiths before her mother raised the alarm at 10pm, is in fact non-existent. 

As Gerry said, it was a disaster. 

Fwiw, if this is what can 'make or break' Redwood's case I will be more than a tad miffed if getting on for £7million and 3 years' worth of a significant number of Metropolitan Police officers time, which would have been better expended on the capital they are pledged to serve, has been wasted spent on confirming the case made by Dr Amaral and his team shortly after the crime was reported.

If the Portuguese media is more reliable than its UK counterparts, could it be that the bus driver is being sought in order to establish whether he can verify that Madeleine was one of his passengers on Saturday 28 April 2007?

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by mysterion on 05.02.14 15:14

If none of T9 were wearing watches, how could they be running a check upon the kids system according to a timetable?

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by NickE on 05.02.14 15:21

@sami wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:with thanks to [email=Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt]Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt[/email]  [ swept under the carpet ]  :   Monday, 3rd February 2014.

So it seems crucial that the time between 21:40 and 22:00 is subjected to extreme scrutiny and any employee or fellow holidaymaker that might have had knowledge of a search for a missing girl BEFORE 22:00 could make or break Redwood's case.

I have taken the link and quote below from MissDaisy, on the 5j thread here.  I hope that's ok MissDaisy.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm
He is Dutch and was informed by another Dutch man of the disappearance between 21:30-21:40 near the Baptista.
It might be nothing to do with it but wasn't there a clip in the Crimewatch reconstruction of two German/Dutch sounding men?
The owner of Restaurant "Atlantico".
http://www.atlanticoluz.com/team.php

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by ultimaThule on 05.02.14 15:45

@mysterion wrote:If none of T9 were wearing watches, how could they be running a check upon the kids system according to a timetable?
In the absence of a 'nodding Clarence' emoticon which could be appended after the word 'ask', suffice it say that T9 were on mctime which enables 3 course meals to be scoffed in less than half an hour while the diner participates in a series of challenges such as being absent from the table while having proud moments when gazing at sleeping children, taking a leak, chatting on the street with other holdaymakers, or spotting a child abductor while being invisible to others.    lol4

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by Doug D on 05.02.14 15:52

I’m confused, not for the first time.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BERNARDINO-SILVA.htm
 
‘When questioned about having made a telephone call on 3rd May at 21.00.11 having activated antennas in P da L, when his working day finished at 20.30, he says that on this day, as well as on others, he was delayed because he had to carry out the transport, even though it was late, of some tourists. At this time he was driving the minibus belonging to the establishment. He also says, that on this day, as well as the transport already referred to, he was late because of the fact that some tourists did not have the key to their apartment.

With regard to the number that he dialled on that day at that time, he says it was the number 966****** corresponding to his wife’s number, which was confirmed in this file’.
 
The copies of the original statements in the files have the address and phone number info. blanked out. Are there therefore other copies to be found, other than the PJ originals, with all this information on them?
I can’t envisage the McCannfiles going through the records & deleting all this stuff, though I stand to be corrected. They had enough to do getting it on-line & translated in the first place.
 
http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/
 
‘If we dive further into the files ……. we find his mobile number in the original statement taken by the Policia Judiciaria. Another search through the list of phone contacts compiled from the data of three mobile phone providers for the time between 21:45 and 22:15 - a time even the PJ seemed extremely interested in - reveals that this driver made one phonecall exactly at 21:51 a time that fits in perfectly with the timespan Andy Redwood refused to define as being still a part of the group's dinner.
 
If we cannot see the phone number, how can this info. be actually coming from the files themselves? Is this in fact ‘inside information’ that us ordinary mortals are not privy to?
 
Similarly,
 
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/02/judiciary-police-searches-for-former.html
 
Broadcast by TVI, 3rd February 2014
 
‘The PJ work on the field, in Praia da Luz, took place several months ago and was one of the investigative steps in the first letter rogatory that arrived in Portugal during the last summer, it is part of the English process and has nothing to do with the PJ investigation under the purview of the Public Ministry of Portimão. It also has nothing to do with the regular meeting that once again brought, last Tuesday to Faro, four Scotland Yard detectives. Meeting which was held in order to clarify doubts relative to the first letter rogatory and to make a rundown of the judicial cooperation between the police authorities of the two countries’.
 
So the ‘new and suddenly interesting again Van Man’ is not even current news if this is to be believed.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by russiandoll on 05.02.14 16:59

@mysterion wrote:If none of T9 were wearing watches, how could they be running a check upon the kids system according to a timetable?

 they were wearing watches, Kate says in her book of truth that Gerry went to his check at a very precise time and mentions his watch. smilie

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by NickE on 05.02.14 17:11

@Doug D wrote:I’m confused, not for the first time.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BERNARDINO-SILVA.htm
 
‘When questioned about having made a telephone call on 3rd May at 21.00.11 having activated antennas in P da L, when his working day finished at 20.30, he says that on this day, as well as on others, he was delayed because he had to carry out the transport, even though it was late, of some tourists. At this time he was driving the minibus belonging to the establishment. He also says, that on this day, as well as the transport already referred to, he was late because of the fact that some tourists did not have the key to their apartment.

With regard to the number that he dialled on that day at that time, he says it was the number 966****** corresponding to his wife’s number, which was confirmed in this file’.
 
The copies of the original statements in the files have the address and phone number info. blanked out. Are there therefore other copies to be found, other than the PJ originals, with all this information on them?
I can’t envisage the McCannfiles going through the records & deleting all this stuff, though I stand to be corrected. They had enough to do getting it on-line & translated in the first place.
 
http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/
 
‘If we dive further into the files ……. we find his mobile number in the original statement taken by the Policia Judiciaria. Another search through the list of phone contacts compiled from the data of three mobile phone providers for the time between 21:45 and 22:15 - a time even the PJ seemed extremely interested in - reveals that this driver made one phonecall exactly at 21:51 a time that fits in perfectly with the timespan Andy Redwood refused to define as being still a part of the group's dinner.
 
If we cannot see the phone number, how can this info. be actually coming from the files themselves? Is this in fact ‘inside information’ that us ordinary mortals are not privy to?
 
Similarly,
 
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/02/judiciary-police-searches-for-former.html
 
Broadcast by TVI, 3rd February 2014
 
‘The PJ work on the field, in Praia da Luz, took place several months ago and was one of the investigative steps in the first letter rogatory that arrived in Portugal during the last summer, it is part of the English process and has nothing to do with the PJ investigation under the purview of the Public Ministry of Portimão. It also has nothing to do with the regular meeting that once again brought, last Tuesday to Faro, four Scotland Yard detectives. Meeting which was held in order to clarify doubts relative to the first letter rogatory and to make a rundown of the judicial cooperation between the police authorities of the two countries’.
 
So the ‘new and suddenly interesting again Van Man’ is not even current news if this is to be believed.
I think Bernardino is too old,around 60.
Here is the other driver,not very much info about this guy.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_SILVA.htm

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by Doug D on 05.02.14 17:27

Bernardino is the link given in the Joana Morais blog. Both drivers d. of b.'s are obscured on the statements.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by Lance De Boils on 05.02.14 17:29

I have just checked my hard copies and the info is not blanked out on there.
I can see the phone number, address etc.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by NickE on 05.02.14 19:03

Can anyone answer how PJ can arrest and have this person,or a gypsy or someone else outside T9 convicted in trial? 
No DNA,no fingerprints,no break in,no witnesses,no cctv,nothing,nada.
Is there any evidence that is not official?

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by Okeydokey on 05.02.14 19:33

@russiandoll wrote:
@mysterion wrote:If none of T9 were wearing watches, how could they be running a check upon the kids system according to a timetable?

 they were wearing watches, Kate says in her book of truth that Gerry went to his check at a very precise time and mentions his watch. smilie
LOL - Thanks for that info, I didn't know that.

So they are calling Clarrie a liar.

Of course our wonderful UK media would never for one minute think to challenge them on all this duplicity.

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by Lioned on 05.02.14 21:18

Clarence Mitchell backtracks on previous statement about watches

 

Mitchell said he was not surprised by the inconsistencies in the initial accounts. 'You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.

 

The Guardian 06 April 2008 

 

"It was made out to be the biggest 'conspiracy' since the Diana 'conspiracy,'" says Mitchell. "Some of the group (of friends in the tapas restaurant) had their watches on that night, and others didn't...

 

Yorkshire Post 29 May 2008

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Re: Maddie McCann detectives 'probe Portuguese gypsy site 15-minutes away from hotel where three year-old was snatched in 2007'

Post by jeanmonroe on 05.02.14 23:45

@russiandoll wrote:
@mysterion wrote:If none of T9 were wearing watches, how could they be running a check upon the kids system according to a timetable?

 they were wearing watches, Kate says in her book of truth that Gerry went to his check at a very precise time and mentions his watch. smilie

Arguido questioning of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 7th of September 2007, at 4.05 p.m.
Processos Vol IV, pages 2569-2578
Location: CID Portimão

When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch.

NOT 21:03 or 21:05 but................21:04!

But GM didn't 'see' MO who was 'listening' (lurking?) outside shutters of 5A at 21:05!
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“Once I started there was no turning back.”

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