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Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by NickE on 31.01.14 12:03

If it is someone from staff,why did they left through or open the window?

Maybe they had bad stomach and let out some air clapping

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by worriedmum on 31.01.14 12:10

Can someone explain to me when they had their 'window of opportunity' ?

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by notlongnow on 31.01.14 12:19

@PeterMac wrote:Did a bit of research this morning and found this.I have sent it to Grange and the PJ (!)" />


WTF 76 Euros spent in Chaplins.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by Guest on 31.01.14 12:32

How did the 'new to child abduction' bungling burglars know in advance that Madeleine would not wake up and scream the place down. They could not, without being told in advance, have possibly known that she would sleep through and not scream or shout and wake up two other babies who would also scream and shout. How did they manage in the dark? Even Kate herself couldn't 'quite make her out' so what chance the bungling 'new to abduction' burglars.

How did they know in advance that Gerry and or Kate would not return to the apartment for whatever reason, eg a cardigan, camera, or just an impromptu additional check on the kids. Big risks for the new to abduction burglars.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by Hopespringseternal on 31.01.14 12:46

So, by implication, this means that

1) there were no other attractive white children worth 'lifting' in the complex at any time prior to the 'abduction'

2) all other children were babysat or at the crèche or being responsibly parented

3) the contents of KM's bewk no longer fit in with the SY perceived scenario and so one, or other, is utter twaddle.

 aaagh

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And this week's special promotion is..............

Post by worriedmum on 31.01.14 12:50

cleaners in a white van,soothing couple, tractor man, three burglars.....   huh

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by MissDaisy on 31.01.14 13:04

IMO, I wonder if this has anything to do with people who had access to the other apartments - the unoccupied ones.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 13:06

@Woofer wrote:


Many people, who don`t have access to the internet during the day, buy The Sun - they know very well its a gutter rag but buy it specifically for the Football and Horse Racing.



But what about the ones able to read, what's their excuse?

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by NickE on 31.01.14 13:06

76 € at Chaplins?
When was this?

The McCann’s went to another restaurant (Chaplin’s) the previous night which was even further away from where they were staying and they left their children alone even at that distance. Chaplin’s is 800 metres more in distance than the 200 metres it takes to get to the Tapas Bar.

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When asked if people will ever learn what really happened, Mr Amaral responded: “Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out".

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by worriedmum on 31.01.14 13:11

@diatribe wrote:
@Woofer wrote:


Many people, who don`t have access to the internet during the day, buy The Sun - they know very well its a gutter rag but buy it specifically for the Football and Horse Racing.



But what about the ones able to read, what's their excuse?
 laughat

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by tiny on 31.01.14 13:11

@diatribe wrote:
@Woofer wrote:


Many people, who don`t have access to the internet during the day, buy The Sun - they know very well its a gutter rag but buy it specifically for the Football and Horse Racing.



But what about the ones able to read, what's their excuse?
 laughat

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by Ayniia on 31.01.14 13:54

@Gillyspot wrote:Sky "news"  today  http://news.sky.com/story/1204013/madeleine-mccann-cops-hunt-resort-workers

Investigators believe the trio were workers at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz, where the McCann family were staying in 2007 and were behind a string of burglaries in the weeks before Madeleine, then three, went missing.
Former Ocean Club worker Nelson Rodrigues, told Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt that employees at the complex would have had the perfect opportunity to snatch a child.
Nelson Rodrigues speaks to Sky's Martin Brunt
He said: "Yes, you could suspect (them). The workers there know the shifts and the hours when people are at home or not at home.
"It's waiters, barmen, people from maintenance, reception, the cleaners - it's a lot of staff."

In May 2007, when the McCanns were holidaying in the Algarve, there were some 160 people working at the family resort.
The man spoke to British police 18 months ago - suggesting that their renewed probe has been focused on Ocean Club employees almost since it began.
Paul Luckman, editor of the expat Portugal News, has been following the latest developments in  the case.
He told Sky News: "It's alleged that they could be employees of Ocean Club, which puts a whole new light on it and that they're not, as we've supposed until now, a little group of opportunist burglars going round stealing passports and wallets whenever there was a window open.
Earlier this month, Sky News reported that police were hunting the three men whose phones were "red hot" after Madeleine vanished.
Mobile phone records show that the men made numerous calls to each other in the hours after Kate and Gerry McCann discovered their daughter had disappeared from her room.
But it is unclear whether Portuguese authorities will respond positively to the latest request for help from the British investigation team.
Seriously...
Just why would they want to "snatch a child "?! Like, hey dude it's a perfect opportunity to take a little girl! For what? Don't worry, we'll figure later let's just take the opportunity! Never mind the cameras and watches and mobiles ...
It's 160 people that may include Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny... All of them of course not investigated by the PJ...
Stealing wallets I get it, stealing passaports I don't.
And the last sentence is just so offensive I have no comment...

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"My advice to any British tourist ,please come to Portugal,please come to the Algarve but if you're coming as a family holiday treat it as a family holiday and do things together, don't leave the kids"
Words from an ExPat Algarve resident

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by watendlath on 31.01.14 14:44

@NickE wrote:If it is someone from staff,why did they left through or open the window?

Maybe they had bad stomach and let out some air clapping

I think that would be to trick the police; if the police see that all doors and windows are locked they will suspect an inside job...ie OC staff who have access to a key.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by ChippyM on 31.01.14 14:49

@worriedmum wrote:Can someone explain to me when they had their 'window of opportunity' ?

....and if they had cased the joint, being familiar with the McCann's very frequent checking system, why would they target an apartment where someone came back every 15 minutes? Why didn't they target the apartment in the day time when the kids were at the kids club all morning and the parents were at one of their lengthy tennis matches?

 Why its almost as if someone is making things up!

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by Guest on 31.01.14 14:50

@Hopespringseternal wrote:So, by implication, this means that

1) there were no other attractive white children worth 'lifting' in the complex at any time prior to the 'abduction'

2) all other children were babysat or at the crèche or being responsibly parented

3) the contents of KM's bewk no longer fit in with the SY perceived scenario and so one, or other, is utter twaddle.

 aaagh

Yeah, and there was no elementary school 100 yards across the road with another 100 white little children on a day-to-day basis, i.e.: every day?

Sorry, oops, those were Portuguese children, closely guarded by their own parents

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by jeanmonroe on 31.01.14 14:54

@watendlath wrote:
@NickE wrote:If it is someone from staff,why did they left through or open the window?

Maybe they had bad stomach and let out some air clapping

I think that would be to trick the police; if the police see that all doors and windows are locked they will suspect an inside job...ie OC staff who have access to a key.

Just remind me:

Why would anyone need a key to enter 5A when they(?) have been watching the apartment all week (according to KM) and seeing the McCanns leaving the patio door unlocked every night.?

And why would they(?) need a key when GM himself has said he left the front door unlocked as well as the patio door unlocked on the evening of 3rd May 2007?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007. On this day, the deponent and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children. He clarifies that the main door was always closed but not necessarily locked with the key.

As for the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.

Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE through the back door which he consequently closed but did not lock, given that that is only possible from the inside. Concerning the front door, although he is certain that it was closed, it is unlikely that it was locked, because they left through the back door.

So not such a case of "Come on down" but more likely "Come on IN"
----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007. On this day, the deponent (GM) and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children

Remind me again:

I must have missed the bit in all of the T7's statements where they say they checked on the McCann kids BEFORE the night of 3rd May 2007.

Anyone seen the evidence of any of the T7 'checking' on the McCann children BEFORE 3rd May as G&K say they did?

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by watendlath on 31.01.14 15:48

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@watendlath wrote:
@NickE wrote:If it is someone from staff,why did they left through or open the window?

Maybe they had bad stomach and let out some air clapping

I think that would be to trick the police; if the police see that all doors and windows are locked they will suspect an inside job...ie OC staff who have access to a key.

Just remind me:

Why would anyone need a key to enter 5A when they(?) have been watching the apartment all week (according to KM) and seeing the McCanns leaving the patio door unlocked every night.?

And why would they(?) need a key when GM himself has said he left the front door unlocked as well as the patio door unlocked on the evening of 3rd May 2007?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007. On this day, the deponent and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children. He clarifies that the main door was always closed but not necessarily locked with the key.

As for the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.

Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE through the back door which he consequently closed but did not lock, given that that is only possible from the inside. Concerning the front door, although he is certain that it was closed, it is unlikely that it was locked, because they left through the back door.

So not such a case of "Come on down" but more likely "Come on IN"
----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007. On this day, the deponent (GM) and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children

Remind me again:

I must have missed the bit in all of the T7's statements where they say they checked on the McCann kids BEFORE the night of 3rd May 2007.

Anyone seen the evidence of any of the T7 'checking' on the McCann children BEFORE 3rd May as G&K say they did?

I was really answering the question in general terms...if an intruder gets in via a door because he has a key, how does he throw the police off his scent.

You have just demonstrated how ridiculous it is in this case to suppose that the 'intruders' must have worked at the Ocean Club because they are the ones having access to apartment keys.

You are right...anyone watching the McCanns movements that week could have got in and out very easily.

In fact I remember on the Dispatches video one of the team looking at the patio doors and remarking that an abductor could have been in and out again in a minute.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by nglfi on 31.01.14 16:02

Have I missed something here?  NOTHING WAS STOLEN FROM THE APARTMENT!!!!! Why exactly would MW employees slip silently into an apartment (as they had keys), and instead of going straight for the safety deposit box (they know exactly where it is) , decide to tangle with a hyperactive child who is now awake and crying?? They'd just leave. It would not be worth the risk if she started screaming the place down, or otherwise being difficult.  No need to touch, injure or kill her. The fact that she died in the flat is indisputable,  so it doesn't make sense. Unless we are saying the specific purpose in mind was murder and concealement of a cadaver. If it was kidnap for a ransom, why no ransom demand? If it was kidnap to be sold to a paedophile gang, why kill her? Perhaps, in a perfect world, what SY want the Portuguese to do is check bank statements and homes to prove these people were/are burglars, not prove they had a motive to do something to Maddie. Once that is proved they can force the burglars to talk about what they have seen. No one now, after the worldwide media hype, would want to admit they were anywhere near the scene of the crime. I still haven't seen anything official which says arrests are imminent,  rather than questioning.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by nglfi on 31.01.14 16:16

However much spin is put on this, and however many part time burglars-cum-kidappers come out of the woodwork, nothing will ever change Kate's refusal to answer questions, the couple's departure as soon as they were made arguidos, and their general obstructiveness and deliberate damage to the investigation. 
Those are far stronger indicators of what happened than staff who occasionally stole from holiday makers. Where is the evidence placing these staff members at the scene?  
Where is the evidence they used the Renault scenic,  rather than the Macs? Where is the evidence they borrowed Kate's clothes to kill Maddie in (God knows when they did that, before or after selling her to the paedophile network?!)

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by ultimaThule on 31.01.14 16:47

@plebgate wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:Could it be because they're figments of a desperate fervent imagination, plebgate?

The McCanns have form for biting hands that fed them.

I wonder what MW makes of this story which has emerged at the peak time for bookings for the summer season?
Good point about the bookings UT.

As for figments of a fervent imagination, could be, but imo it sounds like the old sauce bottle has been out again.  eyebrows
Would that be the jar of apple sauce which traditionally accompanies all things pork?  Looks like the rim's gone a bit crusty which usually happens when someone's failed to put the lid back on properly...

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by Dr What on 31.01.14 18:12

Assuming the child was dead and behind the sofa AND you had put her there temporarily before deciding how to dispose of the corpse, would you leave ANY main door or patio door unlocked in the interim and run the risk of anyone going inside.
I believe GM is calculating enough not to have done that.IF there was anyone amongst the Tapas 7 who was in the know, then I tend to think that they would have been given a key to enter the apartment.

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by ultimaThule on 31.01.14 21:05

@worriedmum wrote:Three very cunning operators, managing to make sure that specialist cadaver odour and blood dogs would later throw investigators off the scent (sorry about the pun!)


I wonder how they snuck into the Renault Scenic?
Given that the Scenic was left ungaraged with its boot wide open at night to air the eau d'rotting meat, fish, and nappies, even three very uncunning operators would have had no need to snuck, wm, and if Sean's ability to sleep like the dead through plane journeys and press conferences is a family trait, they could have held a party in the moonlight for the purpose of applying a liberal coating of cadaverine and putrescine scented fluids to the tyre well.   yes

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by NickE on 31.01.14 21:21

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@watendlath wrote:
@NickE wrote:If it is someone from staff,why did they left through or open the window?

Maybe they had bad stomach and let out some air clapping

I think that would be to trick the police; if the police see that all doors and windows are locked they will suspect an inside job...ie OC staff who have access to a key.

Just remind me:

Why would anyone need a key to enter 5A when they(?) have been watching the apartment all week (according to KM) and seeing the McCanns leaving the patio door unlocked every night.?

And why would they(?) need a key when GM himself has said he left the front door unlocked as well as the patio door unlocked on the evening of 3rd May 2007?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007. On this day, the deponent and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children. He clarifies that the main door was always closed but not necessarily locked with the key.

As for the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.

Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE through the back door which he consequently closed but did not lock, given that that is only possible from the inside. Concerning the front door, although he is certain that it was closed, it is unlikely that it was locked, because they left through the back door.

So not such a case of "Come on down" but more likely "Come on IN"
----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007. On this day, the deponent (GM) and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children

Remind me again:

I must have missed the bit in all of the T7's statements where they say they checked on the McCann kids BEFORE the night of 3rd May 2007.

Anyone seen the evidence of any of the T7 'checking' on the McCann children BEFORE 3rd May as G&K say they did?
Gonçalo Amaral: "The key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, on the kitchen’s counter. 
Right away, the lies started."

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by worriedmum on 31.01.14 21:25

@ultimaThule wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:Three very cunning operators, managing to make sure that specialist cadaver odour and blood dogs would later throw investigators off the scent (sorry about the pun!)


I wonder how they snuck into the Renault Scenic?
Given that the Scenic was left ungaraged with its boot wide open at night to air the eau d'rotting meat, fish, and nappies, even three very uncunning operators would have had no need to snuck, wm, and if Sean's ability to sleep like the dead through plane journeys and press conferences is a family trait, they could have held a party in the moonlight for the purpose of applying a liberal coating of cadaverine and putrescine scented fluids to the tyre well.   yes
 thanks  UT. I never thought of that.....

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Re: Round and Round we go - Express front page - Suspects paid to snatch Maddy

Post by ultimaThule on 31.01.14 21:29

@jeanmonroe wrote:< snip >
Remind me again:

I must have missed the bit in all of the T7's statements where they say they checked on the McCann kids BEFORE the night of 3rd May 2007.

Anyone seen the evidence of any of the T7 'checking' on the McCann children BEFORE 3rd May as G&K say they did?
As I recall, following Madeleine asking her mother 'where were you when Sean and I cried' on the morning of 3 May 2007,  K&G resolved that they would 'really' check on their children.

The use of the word 'really' suggests that prior to the night of 3 May any checks they had performed were of the 'play' or 'pretend' variety - perhaps consisting of the occasional glance in the general direction of the obscured view of the rear entrance to the apartment where their infants lay sleeping in the front bedroom?  Or a low decibel shout of 'Are you OK, kids?' from beside the swimming pool, followed by swift resumption of revelries when answer came there none. 

However, discounting the Paynes who were fortuitiously equipped with an especially long range baby monitor, I can't find any account of the other couples in the group checking on either the McCann children or their own prior to 3 May 2007.

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