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Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Guest on 08.08.14 21:22

Elm house was hardly palatial.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 08.08.14 21:24

@JohnyT wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:It really is puzzling isn't Cristobell.

I can't get my head round why the media have no problem questioning/exposing stuff all the way up to royalty, but won't go anywhere near the meat of this case. I don't buy it is because of being sued, either.

I agree with others it is something big and possibly not directly related to the M's/what happened to Madeleine, I just can't think what that could be to cause the media to behave how they have or why OG would conduct a whitewash/coverup in public to appease a public 99.9% of which have basically forgotten/don't care/had enough of it.
Actually I think it IS because they're frightened of being sued......even posters on here are hence the putting of allegedly and IMO after most posts.
JohnyT

(IMO of course!)

But why seemingly only in this case? There have been hundreds of allegations and revelations by the press on royalty, politicians and celebs in the seven years of this case and the prospect of them being sued didn't stop them. Some people have successfully sued the press and they still do this.

What is it that is stopping them posting facts? Can't be successfully sued for that can they?

Is it they are awaiting a trial win for Amaral and then the Kraken will be released?

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by HelenMeg on 08.08.14 21:57

@Praiaaa wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
I believe that there may have been some very very wealthy business men partaking in activities that week - who pulled in favours.
I just don't believe anyone wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season, and even tho it was cheap FP and DP make it clear in their rogs that they still blagged discounts. - you are taking GM at his  own inflated sense of importance. No way was this a shady Bilderburg type week - plenty of more discreet and luxurious places to go and do nefarious things behind closed doors if that is what anyone wanted to do.
If it was pre-planned and/or an establishment cover-up neither we nor the  media nor the world would ever have heard of the McCanns, and there would certainly be no cadaver scent found by any dogs in the apartment.
So, if you dont believe anyone wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season, how do you explain PE being there - on the board of STEMCOR no less?  How do you explain Bridget and husband there. Even Consultants are very well paid by most peoples standards. DP, MO, RO GM - all Consultants - not just average doctors. Check their GMC registrations - all Consultants earning nice big salaries. How do you explain them being there? In your opinion nobody 'wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season' yet we can clearly see that they did do week commencing 28th April 2007. In my opinion they can and did - what is puzzling is why they went... and I dont know why that was.   

STEMCOR
Stemcor is one of the world’s largest independent steel traders.
Our services span every step in the steel supply chain and include finance, provision of raw materials, steel trading, distribution and stockholding. With turnover exceeding £5bn in 2012, we trade around 20 million tonnes of steel and steel-making raw materials per annum through a network of offices in 45 different countries. Stemcor aims to be the partner of choice for producers and purchasers of steel in every part of the world. We achieve this by nurturing strong business relationships, by continuously improving our processes and by adding value at every step - from minehead to factory floor.

Stemcor’s strategic direction will remain unchanged. Oppenheimer will continue to be an active Chairman and have oversight of Group strategy, mergers, acquisitions, disposals and structural changes. Philip Edmonds will continue as Deputy Chairman.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by plebgate on 08.08.14 22:26

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:
@JohnyT wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:It really is puzzling isn't Cristobell.

I can't get my head round why the media have no problem questioning/exposing stuff all the way up to royalty, but won't go anywhere near the meat of this case. I don't buy it is because of being sued, either.

I agree with others it is something big and possibly not directly related to the M's/what happened to Madeleine, I just can't think what that could be to cause the media to behave how they have or why OG would conduct a whitewash/coverup in public to appease a public 99.9% of which have basically forgotten/don't care/had enough of it.
Actually I think it IS because they're frightened of being sued......even posters on here are hence the putting of allegedly and IMO after most posts.
JohnyT

(IMO of course!)

But why seemingly only in this case? There have been hundreds of allegations and revelations by the press on royalty, politicians and celebs in the seven years of this case and the prospect of them being sued didn't stop them. Some people have successfully sued the press and they still do this.


What is it that is stopping them posting facts? Can't be successfully sued for that can they?

Is it they are awaiting a trial win for Amaral and then the Kraken will be released?
If injunctions/super injunctions are in place, fear of imprisonment would stop editors/owners from printing anything when ordered to do so by the courts.

We know there are celebs using the courts (injunctions) to stop tales of their private lives emerging, who knows who has what injunction in place?

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 08.08.14 22:55

Could be Plebgate, but even they have been investigated by the press at how they are being abused by the rich and powerful. I remember Giggs and Terry in particular being outed a few years ago.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Woofer on 08.08.14 22:58

I`m beginning to think this has nothing to do with any particular political party covering up.  It goes beyond them to the people who control politicians, i.e. the Secret Services. Watching Richard Hall`s documentary made me see things more clearly. It is the appointment of CM that is so obviously a spooks operation.
 
I`ve often thought the Mcs were fighting the SSs and that`s why they immediately created the publicity whirlwind.  It could be that the Mcs and SSs had each other by the short and curlies. The Mcs wanted MBMs body back and they were going to make one hell of a fuss about it.  CM was there to control what they said and no doubt BK played a similar part.
 
Just my thoughts at the moment.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by plebgate on 08.08.14 22:59

It would be good if an MP would stand in the HOC and name names, but I think I remember reading that Bercow has said that Members of the House should be very careful about doing this sort of thing again?

Edited to add - this post in response to Truthwillout.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Cristobell on 08.08.14 23:13

@JohnyT wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:It really is puzzling isn't Cristobell.

I can't get my head round why the media have no problem questioning/exposing stuff all the way up to royalty, but won't go anywhere near the meat of this case. I don't buy it is because of being sued, either.

I agree with others it is something big and possibly not directly related to the M's/what happened to Madeleine, I just can't think what that could be to cause the media to behave how they have or why OG would conduct a whitewash/coverup in public to appease a public 99.9% of which have basically forgotten/don't care/had enough of it.
Actually I think it IS because they're frightened of being sued......even posters on here are hence the putting of allegedly and IMO after most posts.
JohnyT

(IMO of course!)
That's a very good point Johny.  The McCanns have firmly established themselves in the nation's psyche as victims of the Press.  They have received a number of large payouts and they told the world and its dog the sheer hell the press had put them through when they appeared at the Leveson Enquiry.  They have, or at least appear to have, the sympathy of those who wish to chastise the media. 

Some UK newspaper had to hand over large sum of money to the McCanns and are probably not keen to do so again.  On their newsdesks, the missing Madeleine is moving towards the bottom of the pile, there are newer, fresher, stories that are of more interest to the public, than a weekly helping of 'new suspect' and the McCanns' agony.  Hard to believe, but not many people are as obsessed with this case as we are!  Editors know that every McCann story is a legal minefield, so they stick with safe.  They either don't have the time, the resources or the interest in new Maddie stories to investigate them thoroughly. 

Having said that, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the Smithman efits hit the newsdesks.  How could they write a story without making any reference to the similarity between Gerry and the efits, but most of them managed it if I recollect correctly. The public weren't so easily fooled and within hours the wags on twitter were superimposing the faces with Gerry and finding a match!  Maybe some things don't need saying.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Guest on 09.08.14 8:39

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Praiaaa wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
I believe that there may have been some very very wealthy business men partaking in activities that week - who pulled in favours.
I just don't believe anyone wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season, and even tho it was cheap FP and DP make it clear in their rogs that they still blagged discounts. - you are taking GM at his  own inflated sense of importance. No way was this a shady Bilderburg type week - plenty of more discreet and luxurious places to go and do nefarious things behind closed doors if that is what anyone wanted to do.
If it was pre-planned and/or an establishment cover-up neither we nor the  media nor the world would ever have heard of the McCanns, and there would certainly be no cadaver scent found by any dogs in the apartment.
So, if you dont believe anyone wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season, how do you explain PE being there - on the board of STEMCOR no less?  How do you explain Bridget and husband there. Even Consultants are very well paid by most peoples standards. DP, MO, RO GM - all Consultants - not just average doctors. Check their GMC registrations - all Consultants earning nice big salaries. How do you explain them being there? In your opinion nobody 'wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season' yet we can clearly see that they did do week commencing 28th April 2007. In my opinion they can and did - what is puzzling is why they went... and I dont know why that was.   

STEMCOR
Stemcor is one of the world’s largest independent steel traders.
Our services span every step in the steel supply chain and include finance, provision of raw materials, steel trading, distribution and stockholding. With turnover exceeding £5bn in 2012, we trade around 20 million tonnes of steel and steel-making raw materials per annum through a network of offices in 45 different countries. Stemcor aims to be the partner of choice for producers and purchasers of steel in every part of the world. We achieve this by nurturing strong business relationships, by continuously improving our processes and by adding value at every step - from minehead to factory floor.

Stemcor’s strategic direction will remain unchanged. Oppenheimer will continue to be an active Chairman and have oversight of Group strategy, mergers, acquisitions, disposals and structural changes. Philip Edmonds will continue as Deputy Chairman.

I agree, HelenMeg,  Let's not forget banker, Robert Naylor, was also there.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by aiyoyo on 09.08.14 10:26

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Praiaaa wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
I believe that there may have been some very very wealthy business men partaking in activities that week - who pulled in favours.
I just don't believe anyone wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season, and even tho it was cheap FP and DP make it clear in their rogs that they still blagged discounts. - you are taking GM at his  own inflated sense of importance. No way was this a shady Bilderburg type week - plenty of more discreet and luxurious places to go and do nefarious things behind closed doors if that is what anyone wanted to do.
If it was pre-planned and/or an establishment cover-up neither we nor the  media nor the world would ever have heard of the McCanns, and there would certainly be no cadaver scent found by any dogs in the apartment.
So, if you dont believe anyone wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season, how do you explain PE being there - on the board of STEMCOR no less?  How do you explain Bridget and husband there. Even Consultants are very well paid by most peoples standards. DP, MO, RO GM - all Consultants - not just average doctors. Check their GMC registrations - all Consultants earning nice big salaries. How do you explain them being there? In your opinion nobody 'wealthy would go to a cheapo MarkWarner holiday out of season' yet we can clearly see that they did do week commencing 28th April 2007. In my opinion they can and did - what is puzzling is why they went... and I dont know why that was.   


I can see Praiaaa's point that MW wont be choice of the super duper rich.
MW is not 5-stars, at most 3-stars. Incidentally star rating is given according to facilities on offer, and not according to standard of furnishing or furniture or quality of service.
The more amenities and facilities on offer eg. pool, tennis court, WIFI, safe, saloons, boutiques, spa, creche, boat or equipment for water sports etc, in a holiday accommodation the higher the star ratings.

People taking packaged accommodation of this sort of category are typically ordinary working middle class, which the T9 are. MW is not a seedy back packers type nor an extremely low cost no facilities type. It's mid of the range, exactly the sort taken up by middle class with decent wages (bankers, doctors, white collar workers) on a budget holiday for the family. Simple decent accommodation with facilities, nothing extraordinary for not extraordinary people.

Generally not preferred choice of the super duper wealthy, but there are exceptions to the rule of course, if the wealthy is super stingy or prudent with money.



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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Woofer on 09.08.14 11:50

The wealthy have been known to drop their standards and take a side road if there is something tempting on their arrival there.  IMO that`s how the upper crust are controlled - all it takes is a weakness in themselves and their whole family are done for and open to blackmail.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 12.08.14 12:29

Interesting news today regarding Manchester Chief of Police being served a criminal and misconduct notice due to a poorly handled investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28755375

A DS and a DCI also served with criminal and misconduct notices.

Sky News reporting probe was set up due to whistle-blower within the force. Somebody didn't like what was going on ?

Surely, taking into account the size of OG, the mccann affair cannot be a whitewash ?

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by aiyoyo on 12.08.14 12:45

You would think NOT. It's about not getting caught out.
It will only become tiresome and troublesome if you are found out.
If you get away with it, no problem whatsoever!

So it depends really.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 12.08.14 12:56

Particularly with this case, where there is so much damming material available.

I wouldn't be too comfortable being in the OG team if I knew this was the way things were heading.

I do have my days of doubt, but overall I have faith in OG.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by aiyoyo on 12.08.14 13:26

I do have faith, only to a relative extent.

They are taking far too long. If they are focusing on netting the bogus private detectives and other peripheral characters as well for perverting the course of justice then fair enough.
But so far despite the CW appeal, digs, and interviews of Tom Dick and Harry in Portuguese, silence so far.

Can only be very good (watertight) or VERY bad (no head or tail, no clue)


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Just as an aside

Post by PeterMac on 12.08.14 13:55

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/12/greater-manchester-police-sir-peter-fahy-criminal-investigation
Greater Manchester police chief faces criminal investigation
Peter Fahy to be interviewed under criminal caution over claims officers allowed boy to enter suspected paedophile's home

Sir Peter Fahy, the chief constable of Greater Manchester police, is to be interviewed under criminal caution as part of an investigation into whether his force allowed a teenager to enter the home of an alleged paedophile.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission announced on Tuesday that Fahy and other top officers from GMP had been placed under investigation over a series of allegations. The IPCC has launched three investigations into GMP after hearing claims from a whistleblower, who is a serving officer.

The allegations against GMP included that officers:
• Bugged an office at GMP and allowed armed robbers who were under surveillance to attack a pub instead of stopping them.
• Failed to intervene and detain a suspected sex offender who was under surveillance, but as police tried to gather more evidence, allowed a child to enter the suspect's home.
• Mishandled the disposal of body parts belonging to victims of the serial killer Dr Harold Shipman.

The IPCC said the investigation into Fahy related to allegations that may breach the criminal law and police discipline regulations. They stem from the allegation that GMP detectives allowed an operation into a suspected paedophile to run on too long, and thus placed a teenager in danger of being attacked. The criminal investigation into Fahy will examine if he had knowledge of the operation into the sex offender and of the strategic decisions it operated within.


CRIMINAL Investigation into his conduct
Criminal investigation - under Caution - as to whether the operation went on too long
Whistleblower a serving police officer

Mmmmmm   ! eek

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.08.14 14:18

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Interesting news today regarding Manchester Chief of Police being served a criminal and misconduct notice due to a poorly handled investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28755375

A DS and a DCI also served with criminal and misconduct notices.

Sky News reporting probe was set up due to whistle-blower within the force. Somebody didn't like what was going on ?

Surely, taking into account the size of OG, the mccann affair cannot be a whitewash ?

A LOT of police 'whistleblowers' have come out of the woodwork during the past month!

SDS (undercover cops)
Driscoll. Lambeth 'abuse'
Rochdale. Cyril Smith 'abuse'

The MORE police 'whistleblowers' the better, imo.

But DCI Redwood hasn't got to worry about THAT!

He's got enough 'worries' about what the 'files' the PJ will 'release' will 'expose' about the Met co-operation, or NOT, if they re-shelve, NOT CLOSE, their latest 'investigation'!

Just like Stuart Prior, of Leicester Police, had to face, not realising, his, er, 'helpfulness', to the Madeleine 'investigation' he led, would be released, by the PJ. He never, in his worst nightmare, THOUGHT his er, 'input' into his investigation with the PJ would EVER 'see the light of day'

But we all know what THOUGHT did, don't we?

So does Stuart Prior..........NOW!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"We prefer not to discuss this with Detective Superintendent Stuart Prior of Leicestershire Police. We have the impression that he is only here to accompany the McCanns' interrogations and to prevent their detention. His concern on that subject is obvious" (to us, the PJ).

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And it is getting hotter

Post by PeterMac on 12.08.14 14:20

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722722/Chief-Constable-Greater-Manchester-Police-facing-criminal-investigation-watchdog-bungled-probe-suspected-sex-offender.html

MP calls for head of Greater Manchester Police to be suspended after criminal probe is launched by watchdog into his role in 'bungled' sex crime suspect investigation
Chief constable Sir Peter Fahy handed criminal and gross misconduct notice
55-year-old is one of three serving officers to be served with notice by IPCC
Notice in relation to 'poorly-handled' investigation of suspected sex offender
Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk has called for him to be suspended from duty

Now just change the names to protect the innocent !

And note the wording.
"Poorly Handled".
Not corrupt, whitewashed, covered up, Freemasoned into the ground . . .

Poorly Handled - enough to get an MP to demand suspension from duty.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.08.14 14:50

English BBC 'commentator' Tom Burridge

June 2014 in PDL.

"what i know is there's a lot of pressure on the (UK?) police. The Prime Minister, David Cameron, has spoken on camera about 'this issue' in the past and expessed his desire that investigation IS 'concluded'. The home secretary, the interior minister back in Britain, has spoken on several occaisions. A lot of PUBLIC money has been SPENT on Operation Grange, the British police's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, and there IS the PUBLIC OPINION. There is pressure on the police".

"This investigation is ANYTHING but 'normal' and it has NEVER been 'normal' from the very day Madeleine McCann disappeared"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, THAT has to be the UNDERSTATEMENT, of this, or many YEARS, previously!

eta: Smithman is 'WHITE'

PJ say 'a foreigner' to Portugal.

UK detective, DCI Redwood, lead investigator of Operation Grange, the investigation into the 'disappearance' of Madeleine McCann, 'requests' THREE native Portuguese and a Russian 'suspects' are 'questioned and arguidoed for the duration of his current investigation'!

HOW DOES THAT 'WORK'?

Still, DCI Redwood won't personally have to pay 'compo' to the 4 'suspects/arguidoes' identified by his OG 'team' for possibly life long 'damages to their reputations' will he?

But SOMEBODY will HAVE to 'pay', won't they?

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 13.08.14 8:22

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Interesting news today regarding Manchester Chief of Police being served a criminal and misconduct notice due to a poorly handled investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28755375

A DS and a DCI also served with criminal and misconduct notices.

Sky News reporting probe was set up due to whistle-blower within the force. Somebody didn't like what was going on ?

Surely, taking into account the size of OG, the mccann affair cannot be a whitewash ?

A LOT of police 'whistleblowers' have come out of the woodwork during the past month!

SDS (undercover cops)
Driscoll. Lambeth 'abuse'
Rochdale. Cyril Smith 'abuse'

The MORE police 'whistleblowers' the better, imo.

But DCI Redwood hasn't got to worry about THAT!

He's got enough 'worries' about what the 'files' the PJ will 'release' will 'expose' about the Met co-operation, or NOT, if they re-shelve, NOT CLOSE, their latest 'investigation'!

Just like Stuart Prior, of Leicester Police, had to face, not realising, his, er, 'helpfulness', to the Madeleine 'investigation' he led, would be released, by the PJ. He never, in his worst nightmare, THOUGHT his er, 'input' into his investigation with the PJ would EVER 'see the light of day'

But we all know what THOUGHT did, don't we?

So does Stuart Prior..........NOW!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"We prefer not to discuss this with Detective Superintendent Stuart Prior of Leicestershire Police. We have the impression that he is only here to accompany the McCanns' interrogations and to prevent their detention. His concern on that subject is obvious" (to us, the PJ).
Exactly, and OG know the PJ will do the same again.

The PJ have not re-opened the case and co-operated with SY simply to go through the motions. They want a result. Payback time after their reputation being trashed.

SY daren't risk a whitewash as it will be a massive own goal for them and the British Government.

So I have faith, but the delay is frustrating.

IMO

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by PeterMac on 13.08.14 8:39

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
SY daren't risk a whitewash as it will be a massive own goal for them and the British Government.
So I have faith, but the delay is frustrating.
IMO

So is their only get-out option - Incompetence ?
That has its own problems since they could simply appoint another SIO to review what was done and then do it properly.

GA does a review of his own enquiry, of sorts, and comes to some conclusions about what HE / they should have done, and points up mistakes HE / they made.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 13.08.14 8:58

@PeterMac wrote:
@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
SY daren't risk a whitewash as it will be a massive own goal for them and the British Government.
So I have faith, but the delay is frustrating.
IMO

So is their only get-out option -  Incompetence ?
That has its own problems since they could simply appoint another SIO to review what was done and then do it properly.

GA does a review of his own enquiry, of sorts, and comes to some conclusions about what HE / they should have done, and points up mistakes HE / they made.
Incompetence, given the huge sums spent on OG, wont go down well. There is too much info out there, and potentially lots more to come from the PJ.

This case is not going to go away and SY know it.

Evidence allowing, I think they have no choice but to see it through (not that I doubted an intended whitewash in the first place).

IMO

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by PeterMac on 13.08.14 9:05

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
This case is not going to go away and SY know it.
Evidence allowing, I think they have no choice but to see it through (not that I doubted an intended whitewash in the first place).
IMO

Quite.
What more evidence do they need than
LIES
DOGS

It was enough in
Eugene Zapata
D’Andre Lane
Adrian Prout,
David Gilroy,
Marquis Bulloch,
Zinah Jennings
Albert Fine,
Pedro Hernandez,
Shakara Dickens,
Mike Gifford-Hull

And several more on-going ones.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 13.08.14 9:31

Indeed Peter !

We can only live in hope, although AR's pending retirement does concern me slightly. I would have thought continuity would be needed, but I don't know how these things work.

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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Post by PeterMac on 13.08.14 9:47

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Indeed Peter !

We can only live in hope, although AR's pending retirement does concern me slightly. I would have thought continuity would be needed, but I don't know how these things work.

AR's retirement may be EXACTLY the boost Grange needs.
They will have to appoint a new bloke, who will have to be briefed by the team and will have to assume responsibility for the way the enquiry is progressing.
That means he will HAVE to read the Policy book, and make judgments about what was being done.
He will HAVE to record that in his own Policy document,

IF AR has been compromised, then the new one may, just may, be independent. New broom etc.
The new one will also know know about Chief Constables being interviewed under Criminal caution for presiding over a sloppy investigation.
And any of the team who know know, and have been hanging back may feel they have a fresh sounding board for their theories.

OR, might not a dawn raid be AR's parting shot.
Organises the raid, sets the scene, quietly exits stage- left, and lets his team of professionals get on with it, with no further intervention from him.

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