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Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by ultimaThule on 23.01.14 22:58

@MRNOODLES wrote:*Thinking out loud*

A thought raced trough my head.  However not sure of any whys or reasons for it.  Don't laugh, but would there be any advantage or reason for the McCanns  to be arrested by SY in Portugal, in other words when/if they pitch in for the trial verdict.  
Plus this two week difference in reporting the letter of request can be attributed to the unexpected postponing of said verdict.
Libel trial verdict or no verdict, the McCanns are unlikely to voluntarily pitch up in Portugal any time soon and I anticipate that any arrests in this case will take place in the UK.  

The '3 burglars & the rog letter' tale emerged on the eve of what should have been the date for the court to hear closing arguments.   That date was postponed and the final hearing is expected to take place tomorrow. 

It's time for another diversionary tactic from the 'family source' or 'a source close to the couple, but I somehow doubt this is what they had in mind:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html scroll down to see how the Mail have helpfully placed an article with the headline 'Scotland Yard dectectives investigating Madeleine McCann case etc' next to that of 'Son, 22, of Madeleine McCann murder detective etc' for ease of reading*.    laughat 

I beginning to wonder if there's a limit to how many feathers can be spat at the Towers, but I suspect there'll be a few more duvets' worth before this case is brought to a close.    winkwink 

*also posted on 'Madeleine cop son 'nicked' which as far as I'm aware isn't a headline in the Sun... yet.   Murdoch will pay handsomely for your talents, jeanmonroe  yes

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Guest on 23.01.14 23:12

Being a legal ignoramus, please don't laugh at me for asking, but can people be arrested in England by UK police for a crime committed in Portugal? Or are UK police only able to arrest suspects of foreign crimes if a formal request is made by the foreign police for them to do so on their behalf. Would an extradition even be required?

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Arrests Soon

Post by maebee on 23.01.14 23:45

Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by ultimaThule on 23.01.14 23:52

Section 9 of the Offences Against The Person Act 1861:
Murder or manslaughter abroad.
Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished in England or Ireland: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.

In such cases it is usual for the police and CPS to liaise with their counterparts in whatever countries such crimes may have been committed in order to determine where those arrested and charged should stand trial, DeeCoy.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by loopzdaloop on 23.01.14 23:53

@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the mccanns et al have been reinterviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

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Post by maebee on 23.01.14 23:59

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the McCanns et al have been re-interviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Hi Loop, are you taking the 3 to be G & K Mc + one other?

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Guest on 24.01.14 0:03

@ultimaThule wrote:Section 9 of the Offences Against The Person Act 1861:
Murder or manslaughter abroad.
Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished in England or Ireland: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.

In such cases it is usual for the police and CPS to liaise with their counterparts in whatever countries such crimes may have been committed in order to determine where those arrested and charged should stand trial, DeeCoy.
Thank you, ultima Thule. So they don't have to be physically in Portugal to be arrested, but as this is a Portuguese case, it would seem to be prudent for the UK police to formally approach the Portuguese before apprehending any suspects. Enlightening, thank you again.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by marconi on 24.01.14 0:20

Kate+Gerry+Payne, if it is true.

Can anyone back Pedro do Carmo's words? We don't know if he ever commented the second letter. Thank you.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 0:27

@MRNOODLES wrote:*Thinking out loud*

A thought raced trough my head.  However not sure of any whys or reasons for it.  Don't laugh, but would there be any advantage or reason for the McCanns  to be arrested by SY in Portugal, in other words when/if they pitch in for the trial verdict.  
Plus this two week difference in reporting the letter of request can be attributed to the unexpected postponing of said verdict.

This sort of fantasising doesn't help anyone. It ain't gonna happen. For one thing, that's not the purpose of such requests. If you have access to the people concerned in your own country there is no point in requesting rogatory interviews.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by loopzdaloop on 24.01.14 0:30

@maebee wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the McCanns et al have been re-interviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Hi Loop, are you taking the 3 to be G & K Mc + one other?

Hi, yes I am.

I'm basing this on the 'three' being connected to the mobile phones.
We know the mccanns had their own mobiles and then they 'acquired' the pay as you go mobiles.
They would have thought at the time the mobiles would be anon, and they may have been at the time but advances in phone tech has meant analysts can catch up with this. I would consider finding out the time Gerry was making his secretive phone calls by the rock pool when he appeared to have 'lost' something as a way of tracking down at least one mobile to subsequently acquire the data. My other big question mark is with regard to when they gave up those mobiles or then acquired new anonymous ones in the UK. As at no point during the leveson inquiry was it suggested that the press hacked the mccanns. By anyone! Which is mighty strange considering their hacking of everyone else. This leads me to wonder why.

Then, I imagine if the mccanns etc had been interviewed so far it would have been spun in a positive 'we are helping the police, look how amazing we are' with photos everywhere. Or even a 'we are grateful that the police are finally listening to us' with photos taken. Yet there is nothing and we know that every policy and procedure indicates that they and the tapas will need to be interviewed at some point if Scotland yard are working backwards. They can't justify missing a block of time / people of interest accessible to them and then rigorously interview 'burglars' as they would not have the full facts to challenge discrepancies in any story. Also in my mind is the fact that there is no way they could just interview the mccanns as 'witnesses' without a caution due to everything we know, and what we know they know about this case.

It's also amazing Payne was not mentioned on crimewatch when most other main characters were.
I'm leaning towards Payne turning queens evidence and gm, km and someone else up for interview.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 0:31

Dee Coy wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:Section 9 of the Offences Against The Person Act 1861:
Murder or manslaughter abroad.
Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished in England or Ireland: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.

In such cases it is usual for the police and CPS to liaise with their counterparts in whatever countries such crimes may have been committed in order to determine where those arrested and charged should stand trial, DeeCoy.
Thank you, ultima Thule. So they don't have to be physically in Portugal to be arrested, but as this is a Portuguese case, it would seem to be prudent for the UK police to formally approach the Portuguese before apprehending any suspects. Enlightening, thank you again.

I think you're all going off in wrong directions. This is a rogatory letter requesting interviews of people NOT in the UK.  End of story.  You're trying to construct something that can't be put together.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by jeanmonroe on 24.01.14 0:43

MET/SY "definition" of "SOON"

The eve of, or the day of,....... the libel trial 'judgement'

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 0:46

@jeanmonroe wrote:MET/SY "definition" of "SOON"

The eve of, or the day of,....... the libel trial 'judgement'

Anything to oblige ma'am! :)

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 0:50

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the McCanns et al have been re-interviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Hi Loop, are you taking the 3 to be G & K Mc + one other?

Hi, yes I am.

I'm basing this on the 'three' being connected to the mobile phones.
We know the mccanns had their own mobiles and then they 'acquired' the pay as you go mobiles.
They would have thought at the time the mobiles would be anon, and they may have been at the time but advances in phone tech has meant analysts can catch up with this. I would consider finding out the time Gerry was making his secretive phone calls by the rock pool when he appeared to have 'lost' something as a way of tracking down at least one mobile to subsequently acquire the data. My other big question mark is with regard to when they gave up those mobiles or then acquired new anonymous ones in the UK. As at no point during the leveson inquiry was it suggested that the press hacked the mccanns. By anyone! Which is mighty strange considering their hacking of everyone else. This leads me to wonder why.

Then, I imagine if the mccanns etc had been interviewed so far it would have been spun in a positive 'we are helping the police, look how amazing we are' with photos everywhere. Or even a 'we are grateful that the police are finally listening to us' with photos taken. Yet there is nothing and we know that every policy and procedure indicates that they and the tapas will need to be interviewed at some point if Scotland yard are working backwards. They can't justify missing a block of time / people of interest accessible to them and then rigorously interview 'burglars' as they would not have the full facts to challenge discrepancies in any story. Also in my mind is the fact that there is no way they could just interview the mccanns as 'witnesses' without a caution due to everything we know, and what we know they know about this case.

It's also amazing Payne was not mentioned on crimewatch when most other main characters were.
I'm leaning towards Payne turning queens evidence and gm, km and someone else up for interview.

I'm sorry - you're basing this on speculation and your own wish fulfilment then.

Your speculation about the phones seems completely off the mark. These people are intelligent doctors and professionals. The idea that they would think PAYG phones couldn't be traced in the same way as contract phones is absurd.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 0:53

@Varriott wrote:Without implying any link to the SY investigation, of course, I just wonder if Gerry McCann, Russell O'Brien and Matthew Oldfield might be considered to be an example of "three men."  Three men who were away from the Tapas table for a great deal of time between 9pm and 10pm on the night in question, and three men who probably owned mobile phones.  I'm just sayin'...  not implyin'....

You're not sayin', you're not implyin' - you're fantasisin'! Ain't gonna happen.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Guest on 24.01.14 0:55

okeydokey, I disagree.
PAYG phones are not always registered to the person using them, this is why criminals use them, calls can of course be traced but the person who is using them is not easily identified.

Even those jokers at Leicestershire Police appeared to be very keen to get their hands on David Paynes PAYG.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 0:57

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the mccanns et al have been reinterviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Of course they haven't been re-interviewed. The terms of reference of the UK Police investigation were drawn in such a way as to (implicitly) exclude that possibility. It was supposed to be a review of the investigation and the evidence.

If this were a genuine Police investigation, the first thing they would have done is haul in all of the Tapas 9 and re-interviewed them in meticulous detail.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by loopzdaloop on 24.01.14 1:01

@Okeydokey wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the McCanns et al have been re-interviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Hi Loop, are you taking the 3 to be G & K Mc + one other?

Hi, yes I am.

I'm basing this on the 'three' being connected to the mobile phones.
We know the mccanns had their own mobiles and then they 'acquired' the pay as you go mobiles.
They would have thought at the time the mobiles would be anon, and they may have been at the time but advances in phone tech has meant analysts can catch up with this. I would consider finding out the time Gerry was making his secretive phone calls by the rock pool when he appeared to have 'lost' something as a way of tracking down at least one mobile to subsequently acquire the data. My other big question mark is with regard to when they gave up those mobiles or then acquired new anonymous ones in the UK. As at no point during the leveson inquiry was it suggested that the press hacked the mccanns. By anyone! Which is mighty strange considering their hacking of everyone else. This leads me to wonder why.

Then, I imagine if the mccanns etc had been interviewed so far it would have been spun in a positive 'we are helping the police, look how amazing we are' with photos everywhere. Or even a 'we are grateful that the police are finally listening to us' with photos taken. Yet there is nothing and we know that every policy and procedure indicates that they and the tapas will need to be interviewed at some point if Scotland yard are working backwards. They can't justify missing a block of time / people of interest accessible to them and then rigorously interview 'burglars' as they would not have the full facts to challenge discrepancies in any story. Also in my mind is the fact that there is no way they could just interview the mccanns as 'witnesses' without a caution due to everything we know, and what we know they know about this case.

It's also amazing Payne was not mentioned on crimewatch when most other main characters were.
I'm leaning towards Payne turning queens evidence and gm, km and someone else up for interview.

I'm sorry - you're basing this on speculation and your own wish fulfilment then.

Your speculation about the phones seems completely off the mark. These people are intelligent doctors and professionals. The idea that they would think PAYG phones couldn't be traced in the same way as contract phones is absurd.

Disagree entirely. The reason why pay as you go phones were almost banned was due to their anonymity making them the first port of call for organised crime. We could pick up sim cards tommorow, arrange something and destroy the cards and it would be a nightmare to track us down. However, in that area of Portugal it wil be easier. Especially due to the advances in technology today. What is known now due to the Edward snowden leaks was not known then. The Police tracked the pings of the mccanns registered mobiles as well as the calls made to whom and at what time. To suggest that the police wouldn't be interested in what was happening with their pay as you go phones, when you have this knowledge is "absurd".

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 1:05

Bellisa wrote:okeydokey, I disagree.
PAYG phones are not always registered to the person using them, this is why criminals use them, calls can of course be traced but the person who is using them is not easily identified.

Even those jokers at Leicestershire Police  appeared to be very keen to get their hands on David Paynes PAYG.

I was answering Loop who claimed: "They would have thought at the time the mobiles would be anon, and they may have been at the time but advances in phone tech has meant analysts can catch up with this."

What does "anon" mean here? What does "advances in phone tech" mean here? 

I know criminals favour PAYG but that's because the Police can't be bothered to try and run down every criminal's PAYG phone. However, things are different when we are talking about the biggest criminal case in the last 100 years. My point is that these are intelligent people who would understand the police can trace PAYG numbers as well as any other mobile phone number. I think it's naive to think they weren't aware of that.

Are you claiming the Portugese or UK Police have never been able to establish the PAYG numbers?  I seriously doubt that.

I think it was left a bit open ended in the rogatory interviews but as I recall essentially the Tapas 9 were saying they could supply the phones.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by loopzdaloop on 24.01.14 1:10

@Okeydokey wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the mccanns et al have been reinterviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Of course they haven't been re-interviewed. The terms of reference of the UK Police investigation were drawn in such a way as to (implicitly) exclude that possibility. It was supposed to be a review of the investigation and the evidence.

If this were a genuine Police investigation, the first thing they would have done is haul in all of the Tapas 9 and re-interviewed them in meticulous detail.

1) this is an 'investigative review' with remit 'as if it occurred in the uk"
2) this case is one big mass of spaghetti. To interview the tapas first would be Lunacy when you have not untangled everything that has gone on. Hence sy saying they are working backwards. Once you have a solid base as to what happened then it makes sense to reinterview the main people as if you have knowledge of the facts you have the power to Challenge lies. They would never go in blind. Which leads me to posit, that they would be unlikely to interview the key people in any situation as opposed to one under caution. I'd be interested to know if petermac thinks I'm along the right lines here.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 1:18

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the McCanns et al have been re-interviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Hi Loop, are you taking the 3 to be G & K Mc + one other?

Hi, yes I am.

I'm basing this on the 'three' being connected to the mobile phones.
We know the mccanns had their own mobiles and then they 'acquired' the pay as you go mobiles.
They would have thought at the time the mobiles would be anon, and they may have been at the time but advances in phone tech has meant analysts can catch up with this. I would consider finding out the time Gerry was making his secretive phone calls by the rock pool when he appeared to have 'lost' something as a way of tracking down at least one mobile to subsequently acquire the data. My other big question mark is with regard to when they gave up those mobiles or then acquired new anonymous ones in the UK. As at no point during the leveson inquiry was it suggested that the press hacked the mccanns. By anyone! Which is mighty strange considering their hacking of everyone else. This leads me to wonder why.

Then, I imagine if the mccanns etc had been interviewed so far it would have been spun in a positive 'we are helping the police, look how amazing we are' with photos everywhere. Or even a 'we are grateful that the police are finally listening to us' with photos taken. Yet there is nothing and we know that every policy and procedure indicates that they and the tapas will need to be interviewed at some point if Scotland yard are working backwards. They can't justify missing a block of time / people of interest accessible to them and then rigorously interview 'burglars' as they would not have the full facts to challenge discrepancies in any story. Also in my mind is the fact that there is no way they could just interview the mccanns as 'witnesses' without a caution due to everything we know, and what we know they know about this case.

It's also amazing Payne was not mentioned on crimewatch when most other main characters were.
I'm leaning towards Payne turning queens evidence and gm, km and someone else up for interview.

I'm sorry - you're basing this on speculation and your own wish fulfilment then.

Your speculation about the phones seems completely off the mark. These people are intelligent doctors and professionals. The idea that they would think PAYG phones couldn't be traced in the same way as contract phones is absurd.

Disagree entirely. The reason why pay as you go phones were almost banned was due to their anonymity making them the first port of call for organised crime. We could pick up sim cards tommorow, arrange something and destroy the cards and it would be a nightmare to track us down. However, in that area of Portugal it wil be easier. Especially due to the advances in technology today. What is known now due to the Edward snowden leaks was not known then. The Police tracked the pings of the mccanns registered mobiles as well as the calls made to whom and at what time. To suggest that the police wouldn't be interested in what was happening with their pay as you go phones, when you have this knowledge is "absurd".

No, people didn't need Edward Snowden to tell them what could be done in criminal investigation. Take a look at this which predates MMcC's disappearance by a year and makes clear such investigations had been going on for several years already.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmhaff/910/910we23.htm

The Tapas 9 (or at least some of them)  will have known about this, I suggest, because they will be the sort of people who read serious newspapers where all this will have been brought out in trial reports etc.

I am not saying the police weren't interested in the PAYGs - clearly they were as the rogatory interviews make clear.

I am saying that you have no basis for speculation that (a) the Tapas 9 were unaware that PAYGs could be traced in the same way as contract phones or (b) that the Tapas 9 - udner constant surveillance after day 1 - could have acquired sims cards and destroyed them on a regular basis...it might sound easy but not so easy if your every move is being watched by "liaison officers", hotel staff, media and locals.

Why are you trying to build up this speculation on top of what is clearly a rogatory letter request for the PJ to interview three burglary suspects?

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by loopzdaloop on 24.01.14 1:22

@Okeydokey wrote:
Bellisa wrote:okeydokey, I disagree.
PAYG phones are not always registered to the person using them, this is why criminals use them, calls can of course be traced but the person who is using them is not easily identified.

Even those jokers at Leicestershire Police  appeared to be very keen to get their hands on David Paynes PAYG.

I was answering Loop who claimed: "They would have thought at the time the mobiles would be anon, and they may have been at the time but advances in phone tech has meant analysts can catch up with this."

What does "anon" mean here? What does "advances in phone tech" mean here? 

I know criminals favour PAYG but that's because the Police can't be bothered to try and run down every criminal's PAYG phone. However, things are different when we are talking about the biggest criminal case in the last 100 years. My point is that these are intelligent people who would understand the police can trace PAYG numbers as well as any other mobile phone number. I think it's naive to think they weren't aware of that.

Are you claiming the Portugese or UK Police have never been able to establish the PAYG numbers?  I seriously doubt that.

I think it was left a bit open ended in the rogatory interviews but as I recall essentially the Tapas 9 were saying they could supply the phones.

They have proven by their actions time after time that they are not intelligent people by any definition of that term.
They have consistently tried to bluff themselves out of a situation that occurred, of which we can hypothesise about what happened, that has meant they have contradicted themselves on a regular occasion. If you have a read of the files, at that point in time what happened to the mobiles was a complete unknown. Similarly, thre has never been any mention of the press hacking their phones. At the time they believed all their calls and texts would not be traced and they had privacy and anonymity on those mobile phones. They certainly would not have thought they could have been tracked down on them or had their pings analysed. We are aware that sy are still thinking about mobile phones and unless they had anything specific they would not be able to arrest anyone for merely using a phone in the local area, they would be interested in isolating the valuable data from the data dump. Unless you have some further information that you wish to divulge... . .? as the facts I'm basing my logic on are accurate.

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 24.01.14 1:23

@Okeydokey wrote:
Why are you trying to build up this speculation on top of what is clearly a rogatory letter request for the PJ to interview three burglary suspects?

Why are you treating Clarence Mitchell's '3 burglar' nonsense as if it came from Scotland Yard?

And my earlier question to another poster - why whitewash something that doesn't need whitewashing?

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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Guest on 24.01.14 1:23

No okeydokey I think SY have identified the numbers,but they are phones that were needed suddenly during the trip and were possibly bought from someone with links to criminality.
Just because someone is intelligent on paper doesn't automatically mean they have common sense imo.
I can only recall David Paynes rog statement without checking files but he was caught on the hop by the interviewing officer imo, it ended with him saying he thinks its at home and possibly that he would ring fiona to look for it.

We obviously are not to know the outcome of this but I would hazard a guess that Fiona couldn't locate it.


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Re: Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine McCann case move a step closer to making arrests with official bid to interview three suspects

Post by Okeydokey on 24.01.14 1:32

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@maebee wrote:Shouldn't "Arrests Soon" be the follow up to the interview/interrogation of the 3 suspects? Has this been done?

I'm fascinated to know whether the mccanns et al have been reinterviewed yet. If not, perhaps the police can't do so without offering them the caution as what might be said might not be able to be used in court.

Has anyone heard any murmurings?

Of course they haven't been re-interviewed. The terms of reference of the UK Police investigation were drawn in such a way as to (implicitly) exclude that possibility. It was supposed to be a review of the investigation and the evidence.

If this were a genuine Police investigation, the first thing they would have done is haul in all of the Tapas 9 and re-interviewed them in meticulous detail.

1) this is an 'investigative review' with remit 'as if it occurred in the uk"
2) this case is one big mass of spaghetti. To interview the tapas first would be Lunacy when you have not untangled everything that has gone on. Hence sy saying they are working backwards. Once you have a solid base as to what happened then it makes sense to reinterview the main people as if you have knowledge of the facts you have the power to Challenge lies. They would never go in blind. Which leads me to posit, that they would be unlikely to interview the key people in any situation as opposed to one under caution. I'd be interested to know if petermac thinks I'm along the right lines here.

1. Yes, it's a review of the evidence.  It's not a fresh UK police investigation starting from scratch.

2. No it's not a "big mass of spaghetti". Quite the opposite. It's only the UK media, Team McCann and now Scotland Yard who have ever presented it something horrendously complex. Read Amaral and you see doubts emerged very early on and clear lines of investigation developed.  The fact that certain evidence was concealed from the Portugese authorities by the UK for several months was obviously unhelpful but to characterise this as a "mass of spaghetti" is to do Team McCann's work for them.

Given that the weakest links in the evidence are clearly to be found in the rogatory interviews ("OK Jane - you saw the abduction - you realised that at 10pm by your own admission...so why didn't you tell the McCanns until much later? -  and why didn't you (or the others you did tell) organise searches in the direction in which you saw the abudctor fleeing with Madeleine?" or "OK Matthew, you said you could see the twins breathing - in semi darkness in their cots with mesh sides at a distance of some six feet, judging from your TV documentary evidence - can you explain how you were able to observe their chests rise and fall? - would you like us to recreate the scene?"  or "So David, let's go over your evidence about how long you were at the McCanns' apartment...") then that is obviously the place where you start - IF your investigation is genuine.

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