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Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

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Should the police and the CPS have prosecuted these three men?

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Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.01.14 20:12

It is necessary for those that don't follow football to give a brief background to these three prosecutions.

1. 'Spurs' - or Tottenham Hotspur - football club is in an area of north London with many Jews.

2. The club has a long history of association with this Jewish community - on its Board of Directors etc.

3. In recent years, as anti-Jewish hatred (usually known as anti-Semitism) has grown, rival football fans have taunted Spurs Fans by calling them 'Yids', making 'Heil Hitler' salutes and, worse still, at West Ham and certain other grounds, making a collective hissing sound to resemble the gas chambers.

4. In response, some sections of Spurs fans have hit back by calling themselves 'The Yid Army' (after the word 'Yiddish' meaning 'Jewish') and chanting 'Here come the Yide' and the like.

Here's today's BBC story:   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25831077

Three charged over 'yid' chants at Tottenham Hotspur games.

[The word, meaning Jew, was allegedly used at matches against FC Sheriff and West Ham United]

Three men have been charged with racial aggravation in connection with chanting the word "yid" at two football matches.

Gary Whybrow, 31, of west London, Sam Parsons, 24, of Amersham, and Peter Ditchman, 52, of Bishop's Stortford, were charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting words.

The word, meaning Jew, was allegedly used at Tottenham Hotspur matches against FC Sheriff and West Ham United.

The three men are due before Hendon Magistrates' Court on 4 February.

"The alleged offences were racially aggravated within the terms of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998", the Metropolitan Police said.

Mr Ditchman is also charged with possession of cocaine on 6 October, the same day as the Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham United match.

In a statement, the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust (THST) said it was "saddened, but certainly not surprised, at today's decision by the Crown Prosecution Service to deem the use of the Y-word in any context as a prosecutable offence".

"Since the first Spurs fan was arrested at White Hart Lane on 6 October, THST has worked closely with our legal team to establish a defence to these charges, which will now be tested in a court of law.

"It remains our firm belief that, when used in a footballing context by Tottenham Hotspur supporters, there is no intent or desire to offend any member of the Jewish community."


++++++++++++++++++++


What is the Y-Word?

The word 'yid' means Jew in Yiddish

In itself, it does not have any negative connotations

It is thought it was used as an insult in the 20th Century, especially around the time of Oswald Mosley and the Black Shirts in the 1930s

Some Spurs fans say they have reclaimed the word, turning it into a badge of honour and deflecting the offensive meaning attached to it by some opposing fans

The Y-word: Should Tottenham fans be allowed to use it?

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 21.01.14 20:48

I ticked the "don't know" option. The truth is I really don't care in the context of football. The behaviour of grown men when they get inside a stadium is, quite frankly, puerile on many levels. If women (yes, before anyone says it, I know women DO go to football matches, but it is predominantly men), behaved this way in a spectator fashion they'd be marched off to the loony bin. Grown men dressing up in team shirts, getting tanked up and acting like a bunch of baboons over a few other men kicking a ball around is quite honestly very demeaning behaviour. So what they shout at each other is neither hear nor there in a way, because they shouldn't be behaving like a vast mob of plonkers in the first place. Right, that's one rant down.

Next rant.

This debate, whether it be about the "N" word or any other word deemed unacceptable - if it is carte blanche "forbidden" that's fine, but I really object to the hypocrisy of rappers using the "N" word, because that is just racist in itself. It's saying, "this word is offensive, and you will face sanctions if you call me a n****, but I'll use it with impunity, so boo sucks to you". Banning a word for use by some but not others is devisive, belittling and just plain prejudiced. It is juvenile beaviour which needs to stop. Either a term is offensive to all or it is not, this cherry picking is very damaging to everyone and it creates rather than diffuses tensions between ethnicities.

I'm all for respecting people and their sensibilities, but it has to be universal and carried out in an adult fashion. I'm afraid we are seeing a situation where the minority groups appear to be taunting the majority at the moment. Perhaps it's part of society "evolving" due to the ever changing demographic, but I see that a lot of what is being done in the name of equality and diversity is actually antagonistic and divisive. The more people try to point score, the longer it will take people from different backgrounds to get along and understand each other. 

At the moment we seem to be at an "awkward" stage, akin to adolescence when the person, or in this case society, is neither a child nor an adult. 

I will fully embrace a multicultural society when I can carry out my business in a bank or a shop or a court wearing a balaclava or a motorcycle helmet, being able to refuse to remove it, just as people are able to do with the niqab. I will fully embrace it when I can fly a george Cross to denote my nationality. 

Going back to the subject of the football, the supporters of football should spend a bit of time at Twickenham to learn some lessons on how to REALLY drink and enjoy the match at maximum excitement levels without behaving like a bunch of Neanderthals!!

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Guest on 21.01.14 21:14

Men and their balls  Rolling Eyes

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 21.01.14 21:18

@admin wrote: Men and their balls  Rolling Eyes

 laughat  ooh I know!! Brings the very worst out of them. Boys and men should be banned from seeing anything circular or ovoid, they just can't cope with it.

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Casey5 on 21.01.14 21:30

I wish someone would publish a weekly list on what terms or words are forbidden because they seem to change so quickly.
What about the beautiful song "My Yiddishe Mama", is that un pc now?
This football controversy seems to be a case where the Jewish community don't object to the fans use of the word "yid", if it means "jew" then how can it be offensive?
I personally hate the term "Brit" but then being English I wouldn't be allowed to object or have any police action taken.

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Guest on 21.01.14 21:53

I play a bit of football myself.

In response to the Nicolas Anelka palavar, I have invented a sign that I now make as a goalscoring celebration. The meaning of it is, believe me, extremely offensive (to somebody, somewhere, probably). However, only I know what the meaning actually is, since I just invented it a few days ago.

This is probably all very post-modern, or ironic, or something.

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.01.14 21:56

@Casey5 wrote:I wish someone would publish a weekly list on what terms or words are forbidden because they seem to change so quickly.
What about the beautiful song "My Yiddishe Mama", is that un pc now?
This football controversy seems to be a case where the Jewish community don't object to the fans use of the word "yid", if it means "jew" then how can it be offensive?
I personally hate the term "Brit" but then being English I wouldn't be allowed to object or have any police action taken.

Some Chinese people refer to white people as 'The Ghosts' - because we are so pale.

Some Muslims call us 'kaffir' - infidels.

Some Australians call us 'Poms'.

All not very nice.

The word 'nigger', though it does sound awful these days, is only a corruption of 'negro', which means 'black' - which is the term we are now supposed to use for those basically of African origin.

What I find vaguely sinister is loads of police officers with video cameras and in plain clothes in the crowd doing little else but watching to see if anyone uttered the word 'yid'.

I really hope this stupid prosecution fails.

On the other hand, anyone who makes 'Heil Hitler' gestures and then accompanies that by making a sound like the hissing of gas in the gas chambers deserves a short spell in the 'cooler'

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.01.14 22:02

Clay Regazzoni wrote:I play a bit of football myself.

In response to the Nicolas Anelka palavar, I have invented a sign that I now make as a goalscoring celebration. The meaning of it is, believe me, extremely offensive (to somebody, somewhere, probably). However, only I know what the meaning actually is, since I just invented it a few days ago.

This is probably all very post-modern, or ironic, or something.

Cue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFrMSzoLXIU

You may wish to turn the sound down before watching

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Guest on 21.01.14 22:16

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Cue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFrMSzoLXIU

You may wish to turn the sound down before watching

Topical too, since Tim Cahill and Nuno Valente got a mention in the Everton Match thread.

Incidentally I witnessed one of the celebrations in the video at first hand.

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by whmon on 21.01.14 22:33

(Copied from a forum I use):

Tolerance
I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Sydney.

I think it should be the goal of every Australian to be tolerant.

Thus the Mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.


That is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque, thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque.

We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, "The Turban Cowboy ", and the other a topless bar called "You Mecca Me Hot."

Next door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork, and adjacent to that an open-pit barbeque pork restaurant, called "Iraq o' Ribs."

Across the street there could be a lingerie store called "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret ", with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods.


Next door to the lingerie shop there would be room for an adult sex toy shop, "Koranal Knowledge ", its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other side a liquor store called "Morehammered."


All of this would encourage the Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us, so the mosque problem would be solved.

If you agree with promoting tolerance, and you think this is a good plan, please pass it on...

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Re: Have these 3 Spurs fans committed a crime by chanting the word 'yid' at a football match?

Post by Woofer on 21.01.14 23:04

There are derogatory terms for every race, country, religion, gender, group in the world, if one cares to express hatred.

Whatever derogatory words get banned, other ones always replace it.   Cretin and idiot used to be a harmless verbs until people started using them in a derogatory way. Now we say learning difficulties, yet I`ve heard that shortened to diffs by callous people.  In another decade they`ll be having to think up a nicer word again.
 
Portsmouth and Southampton football teams hate each other. Pompey call Southampton `scummers` and Southampton call Pompey `skates`.  Now the less warlike amoungst the fans just laugh it off, but the more aggressive types really mean business.

As for `Yid` - it sounds disrespectful, but `Yiddish` doesn`t.  It all depends on the motive for using it. As for the `n` and `p` words, not only are they disrespectful, but they sound horrible.

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