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Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by tigger on 26.01.14 7:38

@marconi wrote:Research, the PJ   believe that Madeleine was present at the creche on May the 3rd.There could have been other witnesses as well (mother, fathers, etc).
More strange than that was the efficiency of concealing the body, so fast, abroad, and they did not know Algarve.

We don't know what the PJ believe now or then.
We do know they put a case together which would have resulted in a short sentence, the end of the Ltd. Co. and some difficulty in getting or keeping a career in the UK.

There was a girl signed in as Madeleine. Faced with the political interference, imo the PJ went for what would stick.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by marconi on 26.01.14 7:40

The worst that Gerry said about Madeleine's coloboma was that he believed that she could be using contact lens, and she was still very young when he said that.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by marconi on 26.01.14 7:49

@IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:Rotting meat, dirty nappies.
Taking cuddlecat to work.
Mosquitoes.

to explain dogs findings.

Maybe the smell was coming from Kate as she took a shower and a bath within a very short time.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Seek truth on 26.01.14 8:20

When Kate on a tv interview, says with a smirk on her face, blaming the restaurant staff, that the abductor must have seen their notes in the book, about leaving the kids alone and needing a table.

Don't understand why she's smirking? It's something very sad.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by tigger on 26.01.14 8:33

@marconi wrote:The worst that Gerry said about Madeleine's coloboma was that he believed that she could be using contact lens, and she was still very young when he said that.

No Marconi, the worst thing Gerry's ever said about his four year old daughter's eye was this:

Although initially reluctant, the McCanns finally informed the media of Madeleine’s unique right eye—a risky revelation. Whoever had taken the child now held a universally recognizable little girl.

Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”

I'm a rather unforgiving sort of person.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by sami on 26.01.14 8:50

@marconi wrote:More strange than that was the efficiency of concealing the body, so fast, abroad, and they did not know Algarve.

That has been the corner stone of their defence for many years, along with being doctors and dining in their back garden.

I don't believe we know for certain who, what or where they "know".  They didn't "know" the British Ambassador but he got there pretty quick, they didn't "know" Gordon Brown either.  We are required to believe they didn't "know" it is not safe to leave three babies alone, albeit with weird burglars lurking in every corner but posh and sporty McCann didn't "know"about them either.

Being in the Algarve is no defence and it is exactly what they want the donating public to believe.  They couldn't have done it they were in the Algarve, that big, bad, unfamiliar place in "the Mediterranean".

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by russiandoll on 26.01.14 8:55

Re the cleanliness  : always seemed strange to me that a soft toy would need washing due to being smelly with sun cream when the stench of dirty nappies etc was allowed to remain in a vehicle until a stage where the boot needed to remain open for long periods. How could one compare the stink? if you could tolerate one, you would surely not think that the other was so important. Yes, held by a child and maybe in contact with the face but a superficial wipe and dry in the sun would have sorted that. This had the scent of your missing child on it, fgs.

 Sun cream might smell a bit off after a while, but only slightly so imo, because it initially usually has a very pleasant odour. I doubt it goes sour the way milk does when it penetrates a fabric.

 On a fabric rather than skin and having soaked in to a certain extent, possibly not very pleasant, but how much sun cream would it have on it?
 
The children were rarely outdoors, regardless of weather. A little post-lunch play prior to returning to crèche and play late afternoon and early evening after tea was at a time when the sun would be less likely to burn skin. Was the cat taken to the beach, the swimming pool, the slides and swings?

 Cuddle Cat did not have sun cream applied to her, unless one of the children decided to mimic Mummy/Daddy.

 So minimal cream outdoors and sun cream was not on any child's skin at bedtime, so how did the cat become so smelly?

 The smelly cat always did interest me and as with everything else to do with this case and no more than in the book " madeleine" , there is a pre-emptive explanation for everything which is questionable. One might be forgiven for believing that the book was nothing more than a pre-emptive defence document, should one ever be required.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by canada12 on 26.01.14 9:02

I think Cuddle Cat may have got smelly from sun cream that Kate applied to herself, and therefore it all rubbed off on Cuddle Cat because she was carrying it around so much.

But mostly I think Cuddle Cat may have had a different smell on it that certain dogs would be alerted to, and Kate felt that the prudent thing to do would be to wash it. You know. Just in case.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by suep on 26.01.14 9:10

@tigger wrote:
@marconi wrote:The worst that Gerry said about Madeleine's coloboma was that he believed that she could be using contact lens, and she was still very young when he said that.

No Marconi, the worst thing Gerry's ever said about his four year old daughter's eye was this:

Although initially reluctant, the McCanns finally informed the media of Madeleine’s unique right eye—a risky revelation. Whoever had taken the child now held a universally recognizable little girl.

Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”

I'm a rather unforgiving sort of person.

This comment of Gerry's is high up on my list too, tigger, along with his comment on CW about how "she came out almost perfectly formed". What on earth could that mean? Does it confirm the coloboma or did she have some other deformity?
He also once said, when asked why they set up the Fund, words to the effect that it was set up so the public would have a means of expressing their concern. Sorry, I can't remember the exact words he used, but the remark struck me as astoundingly and somewhat unselfconsciously self important..
Equally so were Kate's words when talking about their proposed visit to the Pope, when she said something like "Rome is preparing for us". I had a mental picture of them arriving in a royal coach from which they alighted on to a red carpet surrounded by crowds of devoted people wearing yellow wristbands waving pictures of Madeleine!

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by PeterMac on 26.01.14 9:26

@canada12 wrote:I think Cuddle Cat may have got smelly from sun cream that Kate applied to herself, and therefore it all rubbed off on Cuddle Cat because she was carrying it around so much.
But mostly I think Cuddle Cat may have had a different smell on it that certain dogs would be alerted to, and Kate felt that the prudent thing to do would be to wash it. You know. Just in case.
Sunday - sunny
Monday - Cloudy
Tuesday - very cloudy
Wednesday - Rain
Thursday - cloudy until late evening
Friday - Sunny

Sun cream ?


And if this was in the later parts of the extended free holiday, one has to ask 'Who applies sun cream to the palms of their hands ?'

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by russiandoll on 26.01.14 9:38

@canada12 wrote:I think Cuddle Cat may have got smelly from sun cream that Kate applied to herself, and therefore it all rubbed off on Cuddle Cat because she was carrying it around so much.

But mostly I think Cuddle Cat may have had a different smell on it that certain dogs would be alerted to, and Kate felt that the prudent thing to do would be to wash it. You know. Just in case.


 Oops, sorry, forgot to mention the obvious ! However ,the palms of hands do not often have suncream on them, you usually wash palms after putting sun cream on your body. Realistically, how much would have transferred to the cat from holding it up to your nose to smell it, as we saw Kate did?

 I never once saw it carried other than in one hand, even if she cradled it, you are speaking about the inner part of the arm, no sun cream there.

 If she slept with it at night, as might be expected, this would be after a shower.

 I do not think it is reasonable to believe that cat got so smelly and together with the stench in the car, the sensitivity to bad smells does not sit right as a reason for cleaning that toy, especially given its associations.

 Apologies for being graphic here, but I own 2 large dogs and am a responsible and hygienic owner. The bags, as do nappy bags, for disposing of waste are lightly fragranced. Whatever the weather, these bags are easy to deal with by

 making sure that when they are tied there is no air in them, makes them less smelly

 placing them as you dispose of them in a larger bag, which, each time it is opened, you then ensure before fastening does not have air in it

 this can be left outdoors in a large refuse sack ready for permanent disposal, or you can burn it in a metal bin.

 It is not rocket science and I do not accept for a moment that anyone with any common sense and especially the sense of hygiene that a doctor has, would leave such material in a car.

The excise for the open boot was the smell. If there was such an odour on a vehicle, as soon as it was noticed it would be before it was allowed to build to a level where a vehicle would need airing.
 That refuse bag would be outdoors in the shade until it was taken for permanent disposal away from the property.

How are we meant to believe the parents dealt with those soiled nappies at home?

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by canada12 on 26.01.14 9:50

@PeterMac wrote:
@canada12 wrote:I think Cuddle Cat may have got smelly from sun cream that Kate applied to herself, and therefore it all rubbed off on Cuddle Cat because she was carrying it around so much.
But mostly I think Cuddle Cat may have had a different smell on it that certain dogs would be alerted to, and Kate felt that the prudent thing to do would be to wash it. You know. Just in case.
Sunday - sunny
Monday - Cloudy
Tuesday - very cloudy
Wednesday - Rain
Thursday - cloudy until late evening
Friday - Sunny

Sun cream ?


And if this was in the later parts of the extended free holiday, one has to ask 'Who applies sun cream to the palms of their hands ?'

Yes I think it was in the later parts of the extended free holiday, the implication being that it hadn't got sun cream on it from Madeleine or the other two kids carrying it around, but it was from Kate carrying it around (or occasionally Amelie). But that was just what we were supposed to believe. It's not what I believe, nor what most of us believe, obviously. :-)

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by canada12 on 26.01.14 9:55

Sometimes I think Kate just says things off the top of her head when asked a surprise question.

I think the cuddlecat explanation came about because iirc a reporter asked her if it was a new cuddlecat or something, because it looked cleaner or different than the last time she'd been seen with it. And I think Kate probably just answered off the top of her head that she'd washed it (true) because yadayadayada (excuse).

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by tigger on 26.01.14 10:00

@suep wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@marconi wrote:The worst that Gerry said about Madeleine's coloboma was that he believed that she could be using contact lens, and she was still very young when he said that.

No Marconi, the worst thing Gerry's ever said about his four year old daughter's eye was this:

Although initially reluctant, the McCanns finally informed the media of Madeleine’s unique right eye—a risky revelation. Whoever had taken the child now held a universally recognizable little girl.

Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”

I'm a rather unforgiving sort of person.

This comment of Gerry's is high up on my list too, tigger, along with his comment on CW about how "she came out almost perfectly formed". What on earth could that mean? Does it confirm the coloboma or did she have some other deformity?
He also once said, when asked why they set up the Fund, words to the effect that it was set up so the public would have a means of expressing their concern. Sorry, I can't remember the exact words he used, but the remark struck me as astoundingly and somewhat unselfconsciously self important..
Equally so were Kate's words when talking about their proposed visit to the Pope, when she said something like "Rome is preparing for us". I had a mental picture of them arriving in a royal coach from which they alighted on to a red carpet surrounded by crowds of devoted people wearing yellow wristbands waving pictures of Madeleine!

The coloboma wasn't mentioned in the book yet it should have been if it existed. No, I think they spoke the truth when they said it was just a fleck. I have seen such a photo. It was an excellent marketing ploy though and a Unique Selling Point as these things are known. The girl with the thunderbolt eye...

Their behaviour and reactions on finding that the publicity gamble had gone global - let's say someone puts a hundred pounds on roulette only once, hoping fordouble or up to a thousand in return and they'd broken the bank with a ten million win.
That's how the McCanns behaved imo. Untouchable - to get biblical 'Thou shalt decree a thing and it shall be established unto you'.
Or to get back to hubris, plenty of it and it always gets punished.

I'm always amused by the private plane to fly them to Marocco, instead of 'just for us, thank you so much.' It was simply not a very good plane with insufficient space for their egos. Easyjet take note!  big grin 

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by aquila on 26.01.14 10:30

I agree Tigger,

The 'coloboma' a term which Gerry the medic tossed into the arena in an interview was actually just a fleck in Madeleine's eye. I know someone with the same appearance/thing (I shan't call it a condition as it's not).

Hours and hours have been spent on this forum discussing coloboma and medical issues when I believe that Gerry was actually telling the truth when he said in terms of marketing it was a good ploy.

It's that simple. It was a good ploy and it made millions of pounds. Madeleine's iconic photograph of this totally distorted/enhanced eye defect was a winner. Obviously not a winner for Madeleine which is why a lot of us here are picking over the details and trying to make some sense of why so many people attached to finding Madeleine (that obviously includes her parents) who call themselves professionals and consider themselves intelligent have achieved....bugger all (apart from making money).


Just my opinion.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 10:51

With regard to one of the party's reference to the need to 'keep' the bedroom they used for their own child's afternoon nap dark and at an even temperature, this always struck me as a bit in the 'too much qualifying information' camp. That's not to say, however, that I don't believe that the room was kept dark and temperature controlled. A couple of things here jump out at me 'temperature controlled'...Imo, particularly with kids, one would SURELY naturally air a room at least once during a week-long holiday, by opening a window. It would be horrible in my opnion not to have at least one blast of fresh air through a room which was used repeatedly supposedly a kids afternoon naps. Must have felt at the very least a bit stale and stuffy if not germy. And why would it have to have to have been kept permanently dark? Either we take those comments at face value, or could there have been any other reasons for needing to keep a room dark and at an even temperature? I don't know, but either a thing is said as truth or it is said as witting or unwitting testamony. In any case, if anyhing was subsequently discovered to be amiss with regard to that dark and temperature controlled room, then the statement maker had in a way already admitted and defined the extent of his understanding. Now that's one of two things. Either totally true or very clever.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 11:07

@aquila wrote:I agree Tigger,

The 'coloboma' a term which Gerry the medic tossed into the arena in an interview was actually just a fleck in Madeleine's eye. I know someone with the same appearance/thing (I shan't call it a condition as it's not).

Hours and hours have been spent on this forum discussing coloboma and medical issues when I believe that Gerry was actually telling the truth when he said in terms of marketing it was a good ploy.

It's that simple. It was a good ploy and it made millions of pounds. Madeleine's iconic photograph of this totally distorted/enhanced eye defect was a winner. Obviously not a winner for Madeleine which is why a lot of us here are picking over the details and trying to make some sense of why so many people attached to finding Madeleine (that obviously includes her parents) who call themselves professionals and consider themselves intelligent have achieved....bugger all (apart from making money).


Just my opinion.

A very relevant opinion because it proves that the McCs knew there was never any possibility of finding Madeleine.

Quite simply, if the hunt was genuine only a wholly accurate description would suffice.

Any made-up addition, never mind a highly distinctive and potentially dangerous coloboma, demonstrates not only no genuine determination for the search, but also indicates a pre-determined wild goose chase down a deliberately scented wrong alley was the true aim. Keep 'em looking, keep it coming, being the mantra.

And all evidence that points to NO ABDUCTION and the McCs knew it from second one. That LOOK campaign, perpetrated by them, will be damning evidence in court of law.

Also my opinion only, of course.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 11:15

Of course, this does beg the question why they're now playing down the coloboma, as this leaves them wide open to an outraged backlash. Is it because this retraction is also pre-emptive if they did have to defend the LOOK campaign in court?

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Woofer on 26.01.14 11:18

@ Millie -  `Qualifying Information` - that`s an ideal description - I wish I`d thought of that for the title of this thread.

Dont know who spoke about the darkened room - maybe someone else knows.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Woofer on 26.01.14 11:26

Dee Coy wrote:Of course, this does beg the question why they're now playing down the coloboma, as this leaves them wide open to an outraged backlash. Is it because this retraction is also pre-emptive if they did have to defend the LOOK campaign in court?

Yes, I reckon they knew they`d over-stated the fleck and it could come back and `get` them, particularly by a prosecution lawyer - hence the nonchalant `oh it was just a fleck`.

But as for leaving them wide open to an outraged backlash - I don`t think this will ever happen as a consequence of anything they`ve said, because no-one has the guts to question them.  The only one who has dared is Sandra Felguieras (and her interviews make me laugh to see how, in her portuguese accent, she quizzes Gerry).

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 11:30

There was certainly no backlash from the media in 2011 when the patently risible claim was made that they'd never made much of the eye defect.

It doesn't matter what they say - or do as when they published the horrible eye shadow photo - the media just goes along with it.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Mirage on 26.01.14 11:42

Cuddle Cat was a prop IMO. Peeping out of the rucksack (could easily have been lost). Clutched when meeting over 100 children in Morocco. The walks along the beach. All these occasions were when the press were present for organised photos shoots.

If this had been my daughter, that last link would have been too precious to cart around like that. We all know how anxious bereaved people are to retain that special olfactory link. You could argue that her smell would be on her clothes at home. But a soft toy? - the most recent object to be suffused with her warmth and smell. I would have kept it in a special place and taken it out in private moments. We all know that the smell goes eventually, and when that happens the last intimate link is lost. It is such an emotional loss. That is why people do their utmost to preserve it for as long as possible. To wash such an object is unthinkable; for me at least.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by aquila on 26.01.14 11:57

@Mirage wrote:Cuddle Cat was a prop IMO. Peeping out of the rucksack (could easily have been lost). Clutched when meeting over 100 children in Morocco. The walks along the beach. All these occasions were when the press were present for organised photos shoots.

If this had been my daughter, that last link would have been too precious to cart around like that. We all know how anxious bereaved people are to retain that special olfactory link. You could argue that her smell would be on her clothes at home. But a soft toy? - the most recent object to be suffused with her warmth and smell. I would have kept it in a special place and taken it out in private moments. We all know that the smell goes eventually, and when that happens the last intimate link is lost. It is such an emotional loss. That is why people do their utmost to preserve it for as long as possible. To wash such an object is unthinkable; for me at least.
Everything was a marketing ploy imo.

I know we've gone over this on the forum time and time again but there are so many 'props' involved in the 'campaign' (I'd love someone to please tell me what the campaign is).

Cuddlecat
Wristbands
T Shirts
Posters
Car Stickers


Cuddlecat was the only thing not on sale.....but it may have been...once again this has been discussed on the forum. IIRC it was posted that Cuddlecats were given to private investigators to spur them on (that might be a myth).

Nothing I see can convince me that this was anything but a money making exercise in a time of tragedy.

I'm assuming (unless Carter Ruck tell me otherwise) that I'm allowed to give my opinion.

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 12:04

Woofer, re 'too much information' re the room, the source for the 'dark and temperature controlled room is this:



http://kingstonhospitaldrmattewoldfield.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/drmatthew-oldfield-rogatory-we-were.htmlo cannot view the page



For anyone who cannot view th page, it appears under the word Snip:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Reply "The shutters, we didn't open all week, because there's kind of no point. I mean, we went in that bedroom for G**** to sleep during that day, it needed to be dark and kept it at an even temperature, there was no point putting it up and down. 

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Re: Things TM have said nonchalantly - for what purpose?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 12:16

MILLIE wrote:Woofer, re 'too much information' re the room, the source for the 'dark and temperature controlled room is this:



http://kingstonhospitaldrmattewoldfield.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/drmatthew-oldfield-rogatory-we-were.htmlo cannot view the page



For anyone who cannot view th page, it appears under the word Snip:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Reply "The shutters, we didn't open all week, because there's kind of no point. I mean, we went in that bedroom for G**** to sleep during that day, it needed to be dark and kept it at an even temperature, there was no point putting it up and down. 

Page with MOs testimony seems whooshed

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