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Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Halfwit on 11.01.14 0:49

@jeanmonroe wrote:"Whatever the Met say, they are corrupt and it is not true"
----------------------------------------------------
Oxymoron thingy? Or me being a moron?

"they are corrupt......it is not true"


You are no moron jean. oxy or not.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.01.14 0:58

Mirage:

Apparently PC Plebgate-Liar fell far below the standards expected at the MET according to Hogan-Howe!!!
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Yeah, he was dumb enough to get CAUGHT!

The MET certainly do NOT expect THAT from their officers!

 big grin big grin big grin big grin

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.01.14 7:57

@jeanmonroe wrote:Mirage:

Apparently PC Plebgate-Liar fell far below the standards expected at the MET according to Hogan-Howe!!!

What an utterly, pathetically weak statement from Hyphen-Howe.

If I was his boss, I would have said: "You deliberately lied about being present when you were not there, your actions brought down a serving Cabinet Minister of the United Kingdom and you've brpough disgrace on the police; you're sacked without notice for gross misconduct, and you will lose your pension rights. Don't even think of asking us for a reference".

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by PeterMac on 11.01.14 8:46

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/forfeiture-of-police-pensions
LEGISLATION
The relevant legislation can be found in Regulation K5 of the Police Pensions Regulations 1987. Paragraphs 2 and 3 allow a police authority to determine forfeiture in cases where a pensioner has been convicted of treason or of offences under the Official Secrets Acts 1911 to 1939 and has been sentenced to a term (or terms) of imprisonment of at least ten years. Forfeiture in these rare cases is entirely a matter for the police authority concerned.
2. Paragraph 4 allows a police authority to determine forfeiture where a member of a police force has been convicted of an offence committed in connection with his/her service as a member of a police force which is certified by the Secretary of State either to have been gravely injurious to the interests of the State or to be liable to lead to serious loss of confidence in the public service.
3. Paragraph 5 allows a police authority to determine the extent to which the pension should be forfeited. This may be permanent or temporary and may affect the whole or part of the pension.
4. Regulation H5 of the Police Pensions Regulations provides a right of appeal to the Crown Court against the police authority’s role in the decision to forfeit the pension. Regulation H6 provides a right of appeal to a tribunal appointed by the Secretary of State, as police authority, if the pensioner was a central police officer.


I think it could be argued that bringing down a Minister of the Crown is gravely injurious to the interests of the State.
I think it can certainly be argued that the actions have lead to a serious loss of confidence in the public service.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.01.14 8:49

@PeterMac wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/forfeiture-of-police-pensions
LEGISLATION
The relevant legislation can be found in Regulation K5 of the Police Pensions Regulations 1987. Paragraphs 2 and 3 allow a police authority to determine forfeiture in cases where a pensioner has been convicted of treason or of offences under the Official Secrets Acts 1911 to 1939 and has been sentenced to a term (or terms) of imprisonment of at least ten years. Forfeiture in these rare cases is entirely a matter for the police authority concerned.
2. Paragraph 4 allows a police authority to determine forfeiture where a member of a police force has been convicted of an offence committed in connection with his/her service as a member of a police force which is certified by the Secretary of State either to have been gravely injurious to the interests of the State or to be liable to lead to serious loss of confidence in the public service.
3. Paragraph 5 allows a police authority to determine the extent to which the pension should be forfeited. This may be permanent or temporary and may affect the whole or part of the pension.
4. Regulation H5 of the Police Pensions Regulations provides a right of appeal to the Crown Court against the police authority’s role in the decision to forfeit the pension. Regulation H6 provides a right of appeal to a tribunal appointed by the Secretary of State, as police authority, if the pensioner was a central police officer.


I think it could be argued that bringing down a Minister of the Crown is gravely injurious to the interests of the State.
I think it can certainly be argued that the actions have lead to a serious loss of confidence in the public service.

Thanks for the references, PM, and I think both apply.

In addition, if I was Bernard Hyphen-Howe. I'd have the public decency to resign

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Rob Royston on 11.01.14 9:20

Did this officer make a clean confession to lying or was he proven to be a liar?

Like the saying goes, "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." We should make every effort to promote honesty in the police, which will obviously need a large degree of confession from many.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Mirage on 11.01.14 9:37

Defence lawyer, Mr Gibbs, struggling to defend the indefensible and thereby making things a whole lot worse for the MET.................
"And at an earlier hearing, Mr Gibbs claimed that Wallis had an ‘ongoing psychiatric history’ which left him struggling to even remember his own address"
------------.
Funny that, he didn't have any trouble remembering his e-mail password. Did he?

Did Mr Hogan-Howe-Are-You-Still-Here know he had a mentally ill PC on his hands before he spoke of his 100 per cent belief in the veracity of the man's statement. The statement that was so likely to force a cabinet minister's resignation?

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Mirage on 11.01.14 9:57

And asked whether the affair had become a ‘major crisis’ for the Met, Croydon South MP Sir Richard said: ‘We now have firm evidence that a police officer has lied to bring down a Cabinet minister and a huge injustice has been done.
‘The Met has got a lot to answer for at the moment.
I agree

’And Labour MP Keith Vaz said: ‘This whole unfortunate incident took only 45 seconds – but it has cost the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds, Mr Mitchell his job and damaged the reputation of the police.’
I agree


I do so hope lessons are being learned so that never ever again in the future do we see Metropolitan Police Officers lying or covering up in any investigation whatsoever. Cos now the scales have dropped from a lot more eyes and we have got our high viz, all-seeing, critical distance, police-issue specs on, and they are trained on Scotland Yard. Over and out.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.01.14 11:13

What's that saying before the real cops move in?

"GO!, GO!, GO!"

Maybe those will be the last words Hyphen-Howe will hear before office his door is battered down!

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Mirage on 11.01.14 11:28

@jeanmonroe wrote:What's that saying before the real cops move in?

"GO!, GO!, GO!"

Maybe those will be the last words Hyphen-Howe will hear before office his door is battered down!

I reckon they'll send in a soothing couple to check whether he's cowering in a cupboard. Step forward soothing couple! You know who you are.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Guest on 11.01.14 11:32

@Mirage wrote:
I do so hope lessons are being learned so that never ever again in the future do we see Metropolitan Police Officers lying or covering up in any investigation whatsoever. Cos now the scales have dropped from a lot more eyes and we have got our high viz, all-seeing, critical distance, police-issue specs on, and they are trained on Scotland Yard. Over and out.

As others have said, it's often external events unconnected with the case in hand that finally force a resolution to that case.

The timings of all these Met scandals, one after the other after the other, that may be disastrous for the McCanns. Textusa seems to think a 'partial' solution is imminent, with the duo held up as the triumphal prize.

Certainly begs the question, in view of recent events could the ever-increasingly-aware Joe Public stomach another Met cover-up right now? Any whitewash would have to be watertight. Is that possible given the libel trial, the PD investigation and the facts already in the public domain?

And again, even if the Met do persue the McCanns, would this be permissible in view of any 'knock-on effects'? Delicate times.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.01.14 12:09

And again, even if the Met do persue the McCanns, would this be permissible in view of any 'knock-on effects'? Delicate times.
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Spit it out Dee Coy!

Surely you mean if the Met persue the McCanns the 'knock on effects' MIGHT lead right to the doors of Blair, Brown, May, Cameron, ex commissioners of the Met etc

Just to add the Met are saying they have 'intell' for Mark Duggans 'vigil'
"there could be 'trouble makers there"

Well, let's hope some little coloured child dosen't get shot dead by V53 because he 'thought and believed' that the Mars bar the kid was holding and waving around in his hand was in FACT a gun!

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by tasprin on 11.01.14 12:27

INDEPENDENT
Tom Harper (2nd article)
Investigations Reporter
Friday 10 January 2014

The corruption of Britain: UK’s key institutions infiltrated by criminals

The entire criminal justice system was infiltrated by organised crime gangs, according to a secret Scotland Yard report leaked to The Independent.
 
In 2003 Operation Tiberius found that men suspected of being Britain’s most notorious criminals had compromised multiple agencies, including HM Revenue & Customs, the Crown Prosecution Service, the City of London Police and the Prison Service, as well as pillars of the criminal justice system including juries and the legal profession.

The strategic intelligence scoping exercise – “ratified by the most senior management” at the Met – uncovered jurors being bought off or threatened to return not-guilty verdicts; corrupt individuals working for HMRC, both in the UK and overseas; and “get out of jail free cards” being bought for £50,000.

The report states that the infiltration made it almost impossible for police and prosecutors to successfully pursue the organised gangs that police suspected controlled much of the criminal underworld.

The author of Tiberius, which was compiled from intelligence sources including covert police informants, live telephone intercepts, briefings from the security services and thousands of historical files, came to the desperate conclusion: “Quite how much more damage could be done is difficult to imagine.”

The fresh revelations come a day after The Independent revealed that Tiberius had concluded the Metropolitan Police suffered “endemic police corruption” at the time, and that some of Britain’s most dangerous organised crime syndicates were able to infiltrate New Scotland Yard “at will”.

In its conclusions, the report stated: “The true assessment of the damage caused by these corrupt networks is impossible to make at this stage, until further proactive scoping has been undertaken.

“However a statement by an experienced SIO [senior investigating officer] currently attached to SO 1(3) gives some indication of the depth of the problem in east and north-east London: ‘I feel that at the current time I cannot carry out an ethical murder investigation without the fear of it being compromised.’

“The ramifications of this statement are serious and disturbing and provide a snapshot of the current threat to the criminal justice system. Additionally the fact that none of these syndicates have been seriously disrupted over the last five years provides an insight into the effectiveness of their networks.”

In one case identified by Tiberius, a leading criminal was acquitted of importing cannabis after he allegedly “bought” members of the jury hearing his case. A named police officer “was involved in some way or another”, according to the report.

Tiberius also revealed the Met was concerned at the time with a national newspaper story on the ability of the Adams family to escape the law by penetrating the criminal justice system.

In 1998, police appeared to have finally made a breakthrough when Tommy Adams was jailed for more than seven years for importing cannabis.

However, the article cited by Tiberius stated that the “only reason the Adams family had allowed the prosecution to succeed and had not resorted to bribery or intimidation to thwart it, was because the other brothers wanted to teach Tommy a lesson for getting involved in crimes they had not authorised”.

The article concluded: “Witnesses terrified into silence, dodgy jurors, bent lawyers, bent policemen and bent CPS clerks – all are part of the same cancer eating away at justice. A cure for the malady will not be easy to come by. Perhaps we should begin by acknowledging that the patient is sick.”

Tiberius disclosed that the Met interviewed the journalist who wrote the story after the murder of Solly Nahome, a Jewish money launderer credited as the “brains” behind the Adams’ criminal empire. The reporter stated one of her journalistic sources on the family was a corrupt police officer but did not disclose who it was.

Another case of corruption beyond the Met, identified by Tiberius, included intelligence of alleged foul play within HMRC, which is supposed to lead the UK’s fight against white-collar crime such as money laundering.

In 2000, according to Tiberius, a key police informant was secretly helping Scotland Yard with an investigation into the importation of £10m of heroin by a Turkish gang in north London.

The deal went wrong, the informant was tortured in a cellar and “an attempt was made to sever his fingers with a pair of garden shears”. His associate was also attacked and had “three fingers chopped off with a machete”.

The henchman Tiberius alleged had committed the assaults was the son of a named Met detective, who repeatedly tried to impede police inquiries into the case, according to Tiberius. He also had a corrupt relationship with a named detective sergeant then based in Marylebone police station who is suspected to have “organised cheque frauds”. Research conducted by The Independent suggests that none of the three men has ever been prosecuted.

The Turkish drug dealer was later convicted and told police he was an HMRC informant. He said he knew of “corrupt contacts within the police” and had a Cyprus-based customs officer as a handler who “took money off him”.

Alastair Morgan, whose brother Daniel was murdered in 1987 before he could expose links between Met officers and organised crime, told The Independent: “Despite all the protestations by police that things have changed since the ‘bad old days’, this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. The police have no desire to tackle this. It would be too damaging to have it all aired in open court. The Met is a highly political organisation.”

Scotland Yard said: “[We] will not tolerate any behaviour by our officers and staff which could damage the trust placed in police by the public. We are determined to pursue corruption in all its forms and with all possible vigour. All such allegations and intelligence are taken extremely seriously.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-corruption-of-britain-uks-key-institutions-infiltrated-by-criminals-9052617.html

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.01.14 12:28

Dee Coy wrote:You're a brave lady, Jean!  high5 

Not brave, just totally pi**ed off at certain people looking at ANYTHING other than, imo, the blindingly OBVIOUS.

Even if only to totally 'clear' by lie detector tests, re-interviews, (under OATH), re-constructions etc particular people.

Once that has been done even i would be prepared to look at other 'theories'

But it hasn't been done and i'm not!


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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Guest on 11.01.14 13:44

@tasprin wrote:

The corruption of Britain: UK’s key institutions infiltrated by criminals


Jesus, that's a depressing read.

The worst thing is, I can completely believe it!

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by PeterMac on 11.01.14 13:54

@jeanmonroe wrote:
Well, let's hope some little coloured child dosen't get shot dead by V53 because he 'thought and believed' that the Mars bar the kid was holding and waving around in his hand was in FACT a gun!

Even more worrying is that the next time they track an armed gangster, they will wait for him to open fire first. Pray that you or your children are not amongst the bystanders when it happens.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Guest on 11.01.14 14:08

Ironically, I believe that the Met made the correct decision in rhe Duggan case, and in this instance I don't believe it was anything to do with his being black.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.01.14 14:22

@PeterMac wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
Well, let's hope some little coloured child dosen't get shot dead by V53 because he 'thought and believed' that the Mars bar the kid was holding and waving around in his hand was in FACT a gun!

Even more worrying is that the next time they track an armed gangster, they will wait for him to open fire first.   Pray that you or your children are not amongst the bystanders when it happens.

Even far more 'worrying' is that the 'lawful killing' of MD opens the way for the 'ol Bill to go around 'knocking off' any 'wrong 'uns' under the pretext of 'i thought and believed he had a gun'

and i'm sure at the Met's 'botanical' department they have lots of confiscated 'gun seeds' ready to be 'planted' in nearby grassy knolls near the scene of their latest 'lawful killing'!

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Woofer on 11.01.14 23:38

Dee Coy wrote:Ironically, I believe that the Met made the correct decision in rhe Duggan case, and in this instance I don't believe it was anything to do with his being black.

I agree.  If I had been that officer and knew that MD was armed, what else would I (or anyone) have done - hesitate and be shot at?

Only thing I would ask is `are armed police trained to aim for the lower body?`.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by littlepixie on 11.01.14 23:54

I thought Duggan did have a gun.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by Woofer on 12.01.14 0:07

@littlepixie wrote:I thought Duggan did have a gun.

He did littlepixie but the jury concluded he had thrown it on the grass 20 yards away.  So, at the moment the police officer fired MD did not have the gun.  But there was proof that the officer fired in the knowledge MD had a gun, so its lawful.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by marconi on 12.01.14 0:14

This does not  only sounds terrible but it is really terrible.
But it does not mean that Operation Grange is made up of corrupt people. The Yard has 53.000 employes and it is impossible that they are all corrupt.
Besides they are working together with the PJ that are not stupid.
This scandal now will motivate the Met police to show and  to prove that they  can also be reliable.   It will be an extra-motivation.
I continue trusting Redwood and his team.
And Cameron's team will also do all they can to solve Madeleine's case.

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by lj on 12.01.14 2:23

@Mirage wrote:I merely hold him to account for words he has spoken for public consumption and therefore to be taken on that basis. He conveys the message that he is fighting for Madeleine McCann and against the current backdrop of corruption at the MET I can only assume he has a vested interest in ensuring that there is not a scintilla of disambiguation in his words of intent. That is all.

What about the words regarding the parents?

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Re: Scotland Yard’s rotten core: Police failed to address Met's ‘endemic corruption’ - Independent - 10/1/14

Post by lj on 12.01.14 2:30

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
With regard to the breaking news, I have this friend - I wouldn't call him a nutter, exactly, but he has a lot of alternative views. He told me a long time ago that for some unspecified cosmic reason 2013 would be a watershed year for humanity and that after that truth and morality would prevail, and the good would flourish. I reckoned that thought might give you heart.

Maybe I'm a little cynical, but I don't feel that truth or morality will ever prevail if it's the human race we're talking about.

I'm with you there. I'm afraid I have become a bit of a misanthrope.

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