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Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 20.02.14 23:23


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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by diatribe on 21.02.14 0:28



Judging by the comments, this farce is even stretching the imagination and tolerance levels of the Daily Mail readers. Why, even Beaverbrook's backing of Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler didn't manage to accomplish that.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by tigger on 21.02.14 6:19

@diatribe wrote:


Judging by the comments, this farce is even stretching the imagination and tolerance levels of the Daily Mail readers. Why, even Beaverbrook's backing of Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler didn't manage to accomplish that.

@diatribe. Could you please write outside the quote box, here is half a quote from SaM and you posting inside a box marked with one quote mark.

As long as you write after the last quote and make sure you're past the closing bracket of the [quote] it will be clear that the comment is yours.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by plebgate on 21.02.14 8:39

@Mirage wrote:HH has confirmed that SY and the PJ do not agree. I can only assume the Big Boys were over in Faro trying to persuade their counterparts to their POV. Access to files is the name of the game IMO. It can't be anything else. I hope the PJ don't roll over.

IIRC, wasn't HH heading up the investigation originally - so what was all that guff about so many operations remind me which one this is?

Martin Hewitt is now heading OG. I watched a video of him on Youtube addressing police on organised crime and I found him quite compelling. Not quite so when addressing a conference on rape at Southwark. Less so when giving a summation on the review of the inquest verdict on Gareth Williams (spy body in bag). Here he said there was no evidence of the presence of a third party. That caught my attention straight away because I recall reading there was no evidence of GW either, not even at the point of entry into the bath.
Joana M. posted that weeks and weeks ago.    We want news - by the sounds of it none was forthcoming so what was the point of the phone in?

BORING, BORING, BORING - but that's what I've come to expect from the BBC.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Guest on 21.02.14 8:50

Plebgate, the phone-in, 'Your Call' invited listeners to call to speak to BHH about any policing issue.  I heard some of the callers who questioned him about issues such as Hillsborough, policing in London, gun crime, racism.  There was just one call about Operation Grange, the penultimate one of the programme.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by plebgate on 21.02.14 8:51

@worriedmum wrote:Christine in Cardiff:

Good morning, good morning Sir Bernard...I'd like to ask you on the progress of Operation Grange?

BHH: Right, we have a ,lots  of op operations so you're going to have..

Nicky :Operation Grange, just?
CiC: Operation Grange,
Nicky: Which is?
CiC: It's the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
BHH :Ah right thank you for helping
CiC: That's okay

BHH.. but we do have a lot of operations in London so I'm sorry if I didn't recognise it immediately

Nicky :Portuguese police really messed up didn't they

BHH Yes (answering Cic)

Cic: Yes, no-er, what did you say Nicky?

BHH: Er I'm not going to respond to Nicky's comments let me just let me just help.Where we are at the moment ,we have sent three letters of request for international assistance to the Portuguese er judiciary because that's the way their system works and also with the police we are working closely with them obviously the Portuguese police have got a line of enquiry which is different to the Metropolitan Police's but we are working together to try and resolve that erm we're trying our best to keep the family informed and I think in the middle of all this quite often their torment gets lost, have they lost a child or, er,by being murdered,or sadly, or, have they lost a child by someone else stealing them..

Nicky: Awful..

BHH: Either way they've got that terrible uncertainty so we're all trying our best to help resolve that

Nicky: Do you have suspects?

BHH: Yes, we've said very clearly that you know we've got lines erm of enquiry that erm are different to the Portuguese Police and were working with them to try and resolve that, and I'm only gonna , you know that comment you made at the beginning about you know what they did or didn't do, we've got to work together on this  and I don't mean that as a naive,thing, I just think generally,we've genuinely got to work together,we can't police Portugal  they can't do everything over here we must work together, so we're insist..you know we really can work in genuine partnership on this,we're making some progress erm let's see how it comes over the next few months..

Nicky:If you'd been involved at the outset do you think you might have got further with this investigation?

BHH: Er I think that's a bit unfair,that would be unfair, I mean there's been inquiries in erm in the UK where we know that the police could have done better and I think to be too judgemental in these cases is, is wrong and I wasn't there and I'm not going to judge them the main thing we're all committed to is trying to find that little girl.

Nicky:And you have lines of enquiries, you have suspects, lines of enquiry, you have names ?

BHH:That's right...

Nicky : ...and I appreciate well ,how you can't at this stage,go any further, and have you spoken to those people ?..


BHH: Er I'm not going to go any further really because that's what you said you didn't want..
The M word has  been used in this interview.    The PJ and SY are following separate lines of enquiry, he gives 2 examples of how the child could have disappeared, murdered or stolen?


Want to say well done to LadyinRed.    clapping 




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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Guest on 21.02.14 9:08

Plebgate, they may even have discussed Plebgate!

I think I actually said, "Did they, Nicky?".

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 21.02.14 9:11

Ladyinred wrote:Plebgate, they may even have discussed Plebgate!

Good job Lady in Red, the reader comments are reflecting the publics disdain for what is increasingly looking like a cover up.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by plebgate on 21.02.14 9:18

Ladyinred wrote:Plebgate, they may even have discussed Plebgate!

I think I actually said, "Did they, Nicky?".
It took some guts to do what you did, again well done.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Guest on 21.02.14 9:28

Does anyone else interpret this as meaning "they can't do everything they want over here" ?

 BHH: "we can't police Portugal  they can't do everything over here "


LIR very well done, I would have stumbled over my first word. You were great.


ETA I think the ILOR are going both ways and the stumbling block for SY not getting the cooperation they want is the fact that SY don't want to act on the Portuguese request for interviewing their 2 prime suspects.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by PeterMac on 21.02.14 9:39

Does this mean that Smithman has been ditched already ?

Or is he Redwood's fallback position, in case the three burglars / cleaners / Ocean Club employees have alibis.

"Good afternoon Joaõ
Can you tell me where you were on Thursday 3rd May 2007 ?"

"Certainly, Sir. I am, as you know a professional burglar, and I was in custody, having been arrested on 2nd."

"Oh, bolas !"

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Guest on 21.02.14 9:40

Thank you, plebgate.

To all fellow forum members, thank you.  I didn't ring the radio for personal credit. The credit belongs to you all.  I grabbed an opportunity to speak to BHH, head of the Met, ultimately responsible for Operation Grange, the investigation in the disappearance of a young child, Madeleine.  What an extraordinary, tragic case.  I couldn't have rung 5 Live without being a member here, without the assistance of the knowledge, analysis, research, determination and sacrifice of members over many years that has accrued, which has enabled me to make sense of my confusion about Madeleine's disappearance in 2007, and to now wanting justice for her.  So, thank you everyone for your hard work and commitment to justice and truth.

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Just a Thought re HH

Post by fatfiona on 21.02.14 10:23

IMO, obviously (to quote HH).  Of course he recognised Operation Grange he needed to stall for time at the end of the programme to avoid the subject.

I for one am still optimistic

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Tilly-flop on 21.02.14 11:06

LIR well done!

You have certainly brought this case to the fore front again, so a huge thank you too!         friends

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by pennylane on 21.02.14 11:16

@Tilly-flop wrote:LIR well done!

You have certainly brought this case to the fore front again, so a huge thank you too!         friends
Well done LIR, and a big thank you from me too for your brave initiative.  roses

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Guest on 21.02.14 12:26

@fatfiona wrote:IMO, obviously (to quote HH).  Of course he recognised Operation Grange he needed to stall for time at the end of the programme to avoid the subject.

I for one am still optimistic

 shark
Of course he did. He would have been briefed before hand. Did they have to clarify what Op G was for the listening public who would not know what it was unless they had more than a passing interest in the case. Why they did it in such a tortuous way is beyond me. It would have been easier to explain what the investion was and then answer the question. All the initial 'failure' to recognise the name has done is invite suspicion and make him seem even less credible. All in my opinion of course.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by rustyjames on 21.02.14 13:00

dantezebu wrote:Does anyone else interpret this as meaning "they can't do everything they want over here" ?

Just to add another well done LIR, though would be nice if they'd allow the caller to say more.

I immediately picked up on the quote above.  What is it the Portuguese police could want over here?

He was then immediately going to say "so we're insist(ing)", but changes it to refer not only a partnership, but a "genuine partnership".

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by pennylane on 21.02.14 13:35

@rustyjames wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Does anyone else interpret this as meaning "they can't do everything they want over here" ?

Just to add another well done LIR, though would be nice if they'd allow the caller to say more.

I immediately picked up on the quote above.  What is it the Portuguese police could want over here?

He was then immediately going to say "so we're insist(ing)", but changes it to refer not only a partnership, but a "genuine partnership".
Yes he almost said 'we're insisting,' and quickly checked himself.

Why are SY so champing at the bit to know precisely what the Portuguese team are investigating?  If, as the chief balloonman says, they genuinely want to know where the little girl is, the more directions investigated, the more chances of finding out what happened on that ill-fated holiday..... woof woof!

No, the Met want inside knowledge of the PJ's investigation, and to get them chasing up absurd leads until they run out of time, steam and money.  Their agenda is failing miserably (imo), and they're desperately hyping up a pile of nothing, in order to account for all that hard earned taxpayers money they are pissing away!

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by Mirage on 25.03.14 9:43

Hogan-Howe up before Home Affairs Select Committee at Portcullis - (lower it ..... NOW) - House this afternoon.
3.15pm Hillsborough.
4.15pm  Lawrence.
Check these times. I assume he is at the 3.15pm one as well, but definitely the 4.15pm Lawrence.



While you're waiting, why not arrange these words into a well-known phrase or saying:-
Man this buy a car used from would you?

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by plebgate on 25.03.14 9:54

@Mirage

 big grin 

Would not like to be in his shoes today, no Siree Bob.

ETA Keith Vaz, Chair, oh he does like a camera op does our Keith.  titter

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by sallypelt on 25.03.14 10:09

@plebgate wrote:@Mirage

 big grin 

Would not like to be in his shoes today, no Siree Bob.

ETA Keith Vaz, Chair, oh he does like a camera op does our Keith.  titter
Let's not forget Keith Vaz from HIS past, either. Anyone remember this:

"Starting as a Parliamentary bag barrier, when Labour came to power in 1997, he rose quickly, becoming a minister in the Lord Chancellor’s department before landing one of the plum jobs in government as minister for Europe in 1999.
By now a devout euro-enthusiast, Vaz held this position for two and a half years before resigning at the 2001 general election, citing ill health, caught up, as he was, in the Hinduja brothers’ passport scandal".

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2011/08/23/the-second-life-of-keith-vaz/


I remember him leaving due to "ill-health", but he came back quietly, and all the scandal was forgotten.

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by aquila on 25.03.14 10:10

@sallypelt wrote:
@plebgate wrote:@Mirage

 big grin 

Would not like to be in his shoes today, no Siree Bob.

ETA Keith Vaz, Chair, oh he does like a camera op does our Keith.  titter
Let's not forget Keith Vaz from HIS past, either. Anyone remember this:

"Starting as a Parliamentary bag barrier, when Labour came to power in 1997, he rose quickly, becoming a minister in the Lord Chancellor’s department before landing one of the plum jobs in government as minister for Europe in 1999.
By now a devout euro-enthusiast, Vaz held this position for two and a half years before resigning at the 2001 general election, citing ill health, caught up, as he was, in the Hinduja brothers’ passport scandal".

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2011/08/23/the-second-life-of-keith-vaz/


I remember him leaving due to "ill-health", but he came back quietly, and all the scandal was forgotten.
The irony of Vaz chairing:

Snipped from Wiki

In 2002, Vaz was suspended from the House of Commons for one month after a Committee on Standards and Privileges inquiry found that he had made false allegations against Eileen Eggington, a former policewoman. The committee concluded that "Mr Vaz recklessly made a damaging allegation against Miss Eggington to the Commissioner, which was not true, and which could have intimidated Miss Eggington or undermined her credibility".[21]
Eileen Eggington, a retired police officer who had served 34 years in the Metropolitan Police, including a period as deputy head of Special Branch, wanted to help a friend, Mary Grestny, who had worked as personal assistant to Vaz's wife. After leaving the job in May 2000, Grestny dictated a seven-page statement about Mrs Vaz to Eggington in March 2001, who sent it to Elizabeth Filkin. Grestny's statement included allegations that Mr and Mrs Vaz had employed an illegal immigrant as their nanny and that they had been receiving gifts from Asian businessmen such as Hinduja brothers. The allegations were denied by Mr Vaz and the Committee found no evidence to support them.[21]
In late 2001, Vaz complained to Leicestershire police that his mother had been upset by a telephone call from "a woman named Mrs Egginton", who claimed to be a police officer. The accusations led to Ms. Eggington being questioned by police.[22] Vaz also wrote a letter of complaint to Elizabeth Filkin, but when she tried to make inquiries Vaz accused her of interfering with a police inquiry and threatened to report her to the Speaker of the House of Commons. Eggington denied that she had ever telephoned Vaz's mother and offered her home and mobile telephone records as evidence. The Commons committee decided that she was telling the truth. They added: "Mr Vaz recklessly made a damaging allegation against Miss Eggington, which was not true and which could have intimidated Miss Eggington and undermined her credibility."
A letter to Elizabeth Filkin from Detective Superintendent Nick Gargan made it plain that the police did not believe Vaz's mother ever received the phone call and the person who came closest to being prosecuted was not Eggington but Vaz. Gargan said that the police had considered a range of possible offences, including wasteful employment of the police, and an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Leicestershire police eventually decided not to prosecute. "We cannot rule out a tactical motivation for Mr Vaz's contact with Leicestershire Constabulary but the evidence does not support further investigation of any attempt to pervert the course of justice."[21]
The complaints the committee upheld against Mr Vaz were:[23]

  • That he had given misleading information to the Standards and Privileges Committee and Elizabeth Filkin about his financial relationship to the Hinduja brothers.
  • That he had failed to register his paid employment at the Leicester Law Centre when he first entered Parliament in 1987.
  • That he had failed to register a donation from the Caparo group in 1993.

It was concluded that Vaz had "committed serious breaches of the Code of Conduct and showed contempt for the House" and it was recommended that he be suspended from the House of Commons for one month.[24]
Vaz was represented by his solicitor Sir Geoffrey Bindman.[25]

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by sallypelt on 25.03.14 10:28

@aquila wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:
@plebgate wrote:@Mirage

 big grin 

Would not like to be in his shoes today, no Siree Bob.

ETA Keith Vaz, Chair, oh he does like a camera op does our Keith.  titter
Let's not forget Keith Vaz from HIS past, either. Anyone remember this:

"Starting as a Parliamentary bag barrier, when Labour came to power in 1997, he rose quickly, becoming a minister in the Lord Chancellor’s department before landing one of the plum jobs in government as minister for Europe in 1999.
By now a devout euro-enthusiast, Vaz held this position for two and a half years before resigning at the 2001 general election, citing ill health, caught up, as he was, in the Hinduja brothers’ passport scandal".

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2011/08/23/the-second-life-of-keith-vaz/


I remember him leaving due to "ill-health", but he came back quietly, and all the scandal was forgotten.
The irony of Vaz chairing:

Snipped from Wiki

In 2002, Vaz was suspended from the House of Commons for one month after a Committee on Standards and Privileges inquiry found that he had made false allegations against Eileen Eggington, a former policewoman. The committee concluded that "Mr Vaz recklessly made a damaging allegation against Miss Eggington to the Commissioner, which was not true, and which could have intimidated Miss Eggington or undermined her credibility".[21]
Eileen Eggington, a retired police officer who had served 34 years in the Metropolitan Police, including a period as deputy head of Special Branch, wanted to help a friend, Mary Grestny, who had worked as personal assistant to Vaz's wife. After leaving the job in May 2000, Grestny dictated a seven-page statement about Mrs Vaz to Eggington in March 2001, who sent it to Elizabeth Filkin. Grestny's statement included allegations that Mr and Mrs Vaz had employed an illegal immigrant as their nanny and that they had been receiving gifts from Asian businessmen such as Hinduja brothers. The allegations were denied by Mr Vaz and the Committee found no evidence to support them.[21]
In late 2001, Vaz complained to Leicestershire police that his mother had been upset by a telephone call from "a woman named Mrs Egginton", who claimed to be a police officer. The accusations led to Ms. Eggington being questioned by police.[22] Vaz also wrote a letter of complaint to Elizabeth Filkin, but when she tried to make inquiries Vaz accused her of interfering with a police inquiry and threatened to report her to the Speaker of the House of Commons. Eggington denied that she had ever telephoned Vaz's mother and offered her home and mobile telephone records as evidence. The Commons committee decided that she was telling the truth. They added: "Mr Vaz recklessly made a damaging allegation against Miss Eggington, which was not true and which could have intimidated Miss Eggington and undermined her credibility."
A letter to Elizabeth Filkin from Detective Superintendent Nick Gargan made it plain that the police did not believe Vaz's mother ever received the phone call and the person who came closest to being prosecuted was not Eggington but Vaz. Gargan said that the police had considered a range of possible offences, including wasteful employment of the police, and an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Leicestershire police eventually decided not to prosecute. "We cannot rule out a tactical motivation for Mr Vaz's contact with Leicestershire Constabulary but the evidence does not support further investigation of any attempt to pervert the course of justice."[21]
The complaints the committee upheld against Mr Vaz were:[23]

  • That he had given misleading information to the Standards and Privileges Committee and Elizabeth Filkin about his financial relationship to the Hinduja brothers.
  • That he had failed to register his paid employment at the Leicester Law Centre when he first entered Parliament in 1987.
  • That he had failed to register a donation from the Caparo group in 1993.

It was concluded that Vaz had "committed serious breaches of the Code of Conduct and showed contempt for the House" and it was recommended that he be suspended from the House of Commons for one month.[24]
Vaz was represented by his solicitor Sir Geoffrey Bindman.[25]

Yes, Aquila, just the "upstanding" people we need to sort out the  corruption in our society titter 

God help us all!!

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Re: Strange Rumours Circulating about Bernard Hogan Howe

Post by sallypelt on 25.03.14 10:32

And this is breaking news on the BBC:

Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan resigns over whistleblower row

The head of the Irish police force has resigned following a controversy over whistleblowers.

Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan informed Justice Minister Alan Shatter of his decision to resign on Tuesday.

Two officers had raised concerns about flaws in the penalty points system.

Mr Callinan told a parliamentary committee the claims were "disgusting", but he was urged to withdraw his remarks after an independent report recommended major reform of the system.

Sgt Maurice McCabe and now-retired John Wilson had claimed that senior police officers had inappropriately wiped the penalty points from the driving licences of often well-connected offenders.

Full article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26730162

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Hogan-Howe holds court.

Post by Mirage on 25.03.14 16:52

Hogan-Howe answering questions (I use the term loosely) at the Home Affairs Select Committee now. Out-slipperying Vaz. A first!

 Reprise of the BBC farago, what with hasn't seen this memo, colleagues with knowledge off on sick leave, mustn't intimidate an important witness, it's a big organisation etc etc. Remind me what is such and such initiative? On and dreary on.

Shredding data involves human rights and good house-keeping blah blah. Knows the time limit on data shredding in this and that scenario but not on corruption. This was on his watch and this wasn't. Seems unperturbed about a man who had an axe through his head and big red arrows pointing at corrupt Met officers. Unbelievable! I'm beginning to credit Icke with his lizard theories watching this.

ETA A hard drive irrecoverable!!! Is he bovvered? Here sits a man whose shame gland was removed a LONG time ago. Now a self-promoting little bit about doing a job in difficult circumstances and a few statistics to back it. He should have added, made infinitely more difficult by a network of criminal officers who I've done bot all to weed out. Awful.

He wouldn't welcome an investigation of the MET - absolutely not,. No need???  Gawd.  puke 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=15192

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