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The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by columbostogeys on 08.01.14 5:51

@MRNOODLES wrote:Anyway isn't it easy to make a programme about lying with hindsight concerning convicted killers and a whole host of video clips?
EXACTLY. Its a load of old rubbish.

I KNEW Stuart Hazell was guilty, Mathews too, and Philpott. You dont have to be an expert to understand how people lie. I knew the McCanns could be lying too, at their first ever interviews, doesnt mean though that they could be guilty of their daughters death, just that they were not telling the full truth of what happened that night.

Also the Tapas 7, too many errrrs for me......

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by plebgate on 08.01.14 6:34

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@maebee wrote:
@J4MM wrote:... according to Dr Sharon Leal, Forensic Psychologist.  nah

Who obviously hasn't read the Official Police Files  angry2

Have you learnt nothing maebee?

Dr Sharon Leal dosen't have to read the files.

The McCanns TOLD her they were totally innocent!

As they also TOLD their (rather embarrassed now) expensive lawyer IM of CR and all the 'witnesses' they had testify for them in Portugal.

Makes a mockery of one of her statements that out of 100%, '50% of people can't spot a liar' though dosen't it?

Which means that she is saying that 50% of people CAN spot a liar!

Not quite sure how Dr Leal is going to explain why KM phoned Jon Corner at 3am, 4th May 2007 and told him 'the shutters were smashed, and window jemmied' and when that 'lie' was instantly proven to be false, by the police and resort manager,  the McCanns 'changed' their story to 'oh they must have entered through the unlocked patio door'

Perhaps Dr Leal thought that nobody would ever spot that 'lie' not being as 'expert', at spotting lies, as she herself is.

So, as Dr Leal points out, when the McCanns constantly change versions of events, they are still 100% 'innocent'!

Will 'analyse' more tomorrow.
why haven't they TOLD a Lie Detector operator?

I think they said they would but IIRC were offered the chance but declined?

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by tigger on 08.01.14 6:47

Around end September 2007:


The McCanns and The Polygraph

In the Kate Prout murder case, the failure of Mr Prout to pass a Polygraph test led ultimately to his confession to the murder of his wife.

Back in September 2007 the McCanns, as part of their PR 'fight back' against the action of the Portuguese police in making them arguidos, made it known - albeit through the inevitable use of a proxy 'friend of the family'/'source' - that they would be willing to take a lie detector test to clear their names.

"They have said all along that they want to co-operate fully with the Portuguese police," the anonymous 'friend' stated, adding that they had "received no such request from the Portuguese authorities".

Once the frantic headlines, such as 'McCANNS: WE'LL TAKE LIE TEST', had been successfully embedded into the nation's newsstands, Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns spokesperson, stepped forward to pour cold water on the idea. Principally on the grounds that such evidence was not admissible in a Portuguese court.

And there the matter lay...

Until November, of the same year, when a "shocked" Don Cargill, chairman of the British And European Polygraph Association, spoke to the Sunday Express. He revealed that he had spoken to "the McCanns' people", with regard to taking a lie detector test, and they had come back "with a list of conditions that would have been impossible to satisfy".

Mr Cargill said: "Kate said she'd take it to prove her innocence but in reality, she wasn't willing. I was dumbfounded, to tell the truth."

The accompanying headlines, such as 'KATE REFUSES LIE TEST', were clearly unhelpful and so, as usual, Clarence Mitchell was afforded the final word on the subject:

"Gerry and Kate don't need to do one as they are telling the truth."y
Unquote from McCannfiles.com

There's quite a bit more on that topic in the above link.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by plebgate on 08.01.14 7:04

Thank Tigger for the post, Mr. Cargill was dumbfounded - I would guess that many are upon hearing that.

I wonder if SY have asked them and the other lot to take a Polygraph test?

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 8:58

@void wrote:
@Hobs wrote:Remember folks, everyone is 100% innocent until found guilty by a court of law.

Claims of i'm innocent are frequently said by criminals, and technically they are until pronounced guilty.

They will often also claim they cannot say anything in public on the advice of their attornies, if they didn't do the crime what is to stop them shouting it from the rooftops? There is nothing to stop them saying they didn't do it, attornies though will always advise their clients to say nothing until the trial.

How many times have we heard the i'm innocent claims only to have the culprit admit their guilt just before the trial in order to get a plea deal or have them on the first day of trial plead guilty.
Stuart hall is a prime example.

her claim means bugger all.
Agreed, BUT the main problem here is that the McCanns have refused to prove their innocence by behaving like shady, odd people ever since this sham started. We wouldnt be here discussing this on a forum regarding our theories that the McCanns are hiding something if they weren't exhibiting behaviour which would indicate such.

Innocent until proven guilty, unless you are in fact guilty

You do not have to prove your innocence

The State has to prove your guilt. Easy as that

IIRC one of their tribe once memorably said: they are SO innocent; which is even more innocent than just innocent. So there!


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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by DIBarlow on 08.01.14 9:13

Undone by their own shenanigans in Lisbon.

It would have been rather obvious if they'd pulled the programme at the last minute, after learning of the adjournment.

As it is they're going to have to try something else now.

Whatever, it's doomed to failure as they're not dealing in the truth.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by russiandoll on 08.01.14 9:19

Intriguing inclusion of the Mcs in this programme. Whilst I understand the whole controversy is about are they/ are they not telling the truth,  the McCann segment stuck out like a sore thumb for multiple reasons.


1. It could be likened to the Azaria Chamberlain case in that the mother is innocent in the eyes of the law, no body of the baby recovered. Indeed it came directly after the innocent Lindy Chamberlain and the likewise innocent woman whose conduct made people suspect that she had murdered her boyfriend.

 These investigations are both concluded. The McCann case is ongoing. We do not know what crime the Met and PJ are investigating, apart from trying to establish what happened to Madeleine.


2.Chris Jeffries was highlighted as a person tried by media and for whom the psychologist was highlighting the confirmation of preconceived opinions.
 Again that case is concluded. The McCanns' trial by media was not mentioned in the segment about them although they have complained about media behaviour for years.


3. In the cases contained in the same segment, the crimes were mentioned. There was no mention of any crime when Ms Leal was speaking about the Mcs nor was there any reference to a crime in the video clip. The narrator mentioned the McCanns without any background info as to why they were on our tv screens in this programme about lying while having been the perpetrator of a crime.

 Just a ref to their first appearance on tv and not caring how they looked/came across. No mention of " after their daughter Madeleine disappeared/was abducted"

 No reference to the victim by the narrator who had mentioned the Chamberlain baby . We heard the narrator tell us how the public did not believe the mother's story of HOW HER BABY HAD BEEN TAKEN.  We also heard about a man who was murdered but not by his girlfriend /ex-girlfriend? on screen who came under suspicion.
 In fact the only time Madeleine was mentioned was when we heard Gerry speak about them being the " parents of our beautiful daughter Madeleine "
 Was this because the case is so notorious that Maddie did not need to be mentioned? Perhaps. Perhaps it was because the title made reference to notorious crimes and re Madeleine no one knows and so is not able to state what crime has been committed.

 Ms Leal did no highlighting of any body language, she had made mention prior to this segment of the truth simply shining through and re the McCanns she spoke only about Gerry and chose to comment on this first appearance. Her sole focus was Gerry reading from a prepared script and that if he had been a liar he might have ditched this idea as it would draw suspicion...but the message from the psychologist was that he simply did not care and was eager to remember what he wanted to say.. understandable in the case of extreme anguish and anxiety.
 I agree with this. When I was dealing with the coroner and the hospital who treated my Dad before his death I took in a piece of paper because my statement to the panel was going on the record. There were very significant details I wanted to highlight and I especially wanted it noted that I wanted answers to questions and was not accusing the hospital of negligence,

 What was Gerry wanting to tell the media and the public?  Something important which he wanted to focus on? We were not shown this in the very short clip chosen from this statement to the press.

 What we saw and heard was the following :

 " Words cannot express the anguish and despair we feel as the parents of our beautiful daughter Madeleine ".

  You do not need a crib sheet for that, surely? Why when you are making the point about the prepared script, not include something Gerry might have forgotten and which made him create a script? The parents did indeed look and sound anguished.
  Truly bizarre.
 Proven liars identified. Along with proven truthtellers.... innocent in the eyes of the law.

The Mcs do not fit into either category, they have neither appeared in a court of law nor even been charged with any crime.

 There was no mention of why they were ever considered guilty, what crime was involved and why there was the bizarre statement about 100% innocent from a professional person.  As opposed to partially innocent, a nonsensical concept for any scientist.


 That expression is one I might have expected from some of the pathological liars and psychopaths featured in this programme.

 " I can tell you with my hand on my heart that I am 100% innocent ." " I absolutely did not do what I am being accused of."

  " I absolutely, 100 %, definitely did not do it."

  Notorious crimes was this programme's subtitle, what crime was mentioned with reference to the McCanns ?


p.s. I noted how Ms Leal kept flicking her eyes back to the screen, and it was the last thing she did after stating that in her view, the Mcs were 100 % innocent.


   The Mc Canns were imo included for a very particular reason in this particular programme, in which no expert was ever going to state that they were guilty....OF WHAT?

   Intriguing.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 9:25

@worriedmum wrote:Is she really trying to say that she is 100% sure the McCanns are innocent?


Because I'm trying to get my head round the concept of numbers in relation to innocence, say, 75% innocent...or 32% innocent... or 6% guilty.. strange isn't it?   huh

It's a bit like being 60%-80% certain.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 9:27

@roy rovers wrote:
@roy rovers wrote:100% innocent! - Hugh Trevor Roper (he of Hitler's Diaries fame) eat your heart out.
Just to expand for young or foreign readers - The Sunday Times serialised the Hitler Diaries on the basis that they were authenticated as 100% genuine by the eminent historian Hugh Trevor Roper - the only problem being that they were 100% fake. HTR's reputation never recovered, I fear that of Dr Sharon Leal's reputation will follow a similar trajectory.

That was then though, when personal and professional integrity were still clinging on by the skin of their teeth. In the event the McCann's are found not to be 100% innocent, I suspect this woman will get away with "They were such good liars they could even fool the professionals! Now please give me another million pounds for additional research."

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Pershing36 on 08.01.14 9:30

Anyone pick up on the software they used, Silent Talker.  It would be so interesting to try this on a few videos out there.

Anyway, I worked with various security products and software when I had my own business and am on a course later this month as I plan to start a new business.

I have put the feelers out to get hold of this Silent Talker if possible for evaluation purposes or maybe purchase.  I will pm a selected few when I have it.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by russiandoll on 08.01.14 9:39

The woman is an expert on verbal and body cues, she would surely in a carefully scripted programme about liars and notorious crimes have paid attention to her wording imo.

 I wondered the same ,  she clearly said and clearly meant [?] that they were 100% innocent. Not guilty of anything at all with reference to....

 what ? She did not talk about any crime, abduction, murder, manslaughter, perverting the course of justice.

  She could have said [ might have said and it was very bizarrely edited out]

"  In my professional opinion and based solely on the clip I have just watched, which was a very short clip from a very short statement, the McCanns are innocent of having anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter. I would go so far as to say 100% innocent as strange as that might sound. By that I mean I do not believe that they witnessed an accident, as theorised by certain people. I do not think that they then devised a plan to conceal this accident, conceal their child's body and then create a story of abduction to mislead the police and public. They did not do any of these things in my opinion and my 100% is simply my way of saying they have been suspected of many wrongdoings in relation to their daughter's disappearance and that I do not believe that they have done any of these alleged things."

 But she made no mention of any crime and then said the couple were totally as opposed to partially innocent.

 All very vague and so not worth a jot imo apart from getting them on tv for a particular reason.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.01.14 9:41

@jeanmonroe wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HiDeHoCONTROVERSYofMadeleineMcCann/
Dr Sharon Leal is a fellow at the University of Portsmouth.

The Centre for the Study of Missing Persons is based at the University of Portsmouth. Jo Youle, CEO of Missing People, is Chair of the Advisory Board.

Jo Youle, CEO Missing People:

Of whom the 100% innocent Kate McCann is an 'ambassador' for.

"The charity Missing People is delighted to be working in partnership with the CSMP.

SMALL WORLD, INNIT?

Thank you jeanmonroe for another fascinating detail relevant to the making of this programme.

Before we lose sight of, and then forget about, a few facts about this programme, we know the following. I make nothing at all of them, save to set them down for the written record on this forum:

THIRTEEN FACTS

1. The programme was called 'The Lying Game' and purported to expose criminals who tell lies
 
2. The programme featured Dr Sharon Leal, a 'Research Fellow' at the University of Portsmouth
 
3. The programme contrasted criminal liars with Doctors Gerald and Kate McCann, who featured in the programme, and whom Dr Leal said were '100% innocent'
 
4. Dr Leal purports to be an expert in 'investigative psychology', a technique that seems to be employed by sections of the insurance industry
 
5. The Centre for the Study of Missing Persons (CSMP) is based at the University of Portsmouth
 
6. The Chairman of the Advisory Board of CSMP is Jo Youle, the Chief Executive Officer for 'Missing People'
 
7. Dr Kate McCann, two years ago, was apppointed an 'Ambassador' for Missing People
 
8. Missing People has made a statement that "The charity Missing People is delighted to be working in partnership with the CSMP"
 
9. 'The Lying Game' was prodcued by Shine TV
 
10. Shine TV is part of the 'Shine Group', whose C-Founder and Chairman is Elisabeth Murdoch, daughter of the world's most powerful media mogul, Rupert Murdoch
 
11. Elisabeth Murdoch is married to Matthew Freud, Owner and Chief Executive Officer of Freud Communications, where in September 2008, the McCanns' chief reputation management adviser, Clarence Mitchell, became employed after ceasing to work for the McCanns full-time 
 
12. In the space of a few years, Clarence Mitchell worked for Tony Blair as Head of his Media Monitoring Unit, and then for David Cameron as his Deputy Director of Communications
 
13. The programme was scheduled to be transmitted on 7 January 2014, the very day that the final day of summing-up in the trial of McCanns v Amaral in the Lisbon Civil Court was slated to take place. 

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 9:42

@Pershing36 wrote:Anyone pick up on the software they used, Silent Talker.  It would be so interesting to try this on a few videos out there.

Anyway, I worked with various security products and software when I had my own business and am on a course later this month as I plan to start a new business.

I have put the feelers out to get hold of this Silent Talker if possible for evaluation purposes or maybe purchase.  I will pm a selected few when I have it.

Such is the nature of these things that within a year it will be a free iPhone app.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by russiandoll on 08.01.14 9:45

Very interesting indeed Tony. 

   Ms Leal was not convincing. That whole section of the innocent who came over as guilty was the least convincing section of the programme. It would have taken more work than simply looking retrospectively at the proven liars.

 It was slotted in and skimmed over and so vague and superficial it was not worth including imo.


 The woman has a first class first degree and a doctorate. Daft she ain't.

 I was constantly distracted though by thinking she could pass for a strange Sandra Bullock lookalike.

 I think people should refrain from the unkind botox comments. This woman might have a natural facial / mouth disfigurement or have had an accident.

 Let us leave that kind of comment  to the posters in the cesspit who are in their element making unkind remarks about Pat Brown and Dr Amaral.
 I have an inkling no one would have mentioned botox if she had not made the 100% innocent statement.

 This forum is better than that.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Mirage on 08.01.14 9:55

RD that was a great post.

And Pershing, a very interesting proposition about the Silent Talker. Reading your post, it struck me how often we have wrung our hands about the ability of this pair to obfuscate and slither out of awkward situations. Wouldn't it be superb if they were hoist by their own petard, courtesy of new technology applied to videos that no agency can tamper with because they are too well known?

Time moveth on. Crimes that once remained frozen in time are suddenly solvable because of forensic advances. This particular journey of discovery began with the unexpected release of police files and is moving along an inevitable continuum.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 10:01

@DIBarlow wrote:Undone by their own shenanigans in Lisbon.

It would have been rather obvious if they'd pulled the programme at the last minute, after learning of the adjournment.

As it is they're going to have to try something else now.

Whatever, it's doomed to failure as they're not dealing in the truth.

There are now a couple of incidences of McCann-related TV 'developments' coinciding with key dates in the Lisbon trial. The "Crimewatch update" (which as many people commented on at the time, updated us all on precisely nothing) coincided with the belief that the judgement was going to be announced in Lisbon. In fact, two very distracting things happened at that time - the pointless Crimewatch update and the announcement that the MET sought collaboration with the PJ. If I recall correctly, back in October, just as the libel trial was starting, we also had "Scotland Yard Ready To Make Arrests" newspaper headlines (whatever happened to those arrests?)

Now, to coincide with the yesterday's expected Lisbon judgement announcement, we have a bizarre "documentary", supposedly showing how convicted criminals' body language has exposed them, but with the McCanns (who have not been found guilty of a crime) being thrown in as examples of "innocent" people. Why on earth would you include two people who have not only not been found guilty of a crime, but whose case has never been resolved and so remains open and ongoing? Didn't the programme makers think this could be the tiniest bit prejudicial in a future case? Well of course not, clearly, because their body language experts have kindly sat in judgement and decided the couple are totally innocent.

There is something a bit fishy about the content and timing of this programme and other recent McCann-related TV activity, and it doesn't reflect well on this country and its media.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by ultimaThule on 08.01.14 10:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HiDeHoCONTROVERSYofMadeleineMcCann/
Dr Sharon Leal is a fellow at the University of Portsmouth.

The Centre for the Study of Missing Persons is based at the University of Portsmouth. Jo Youle, CEO of Missing People, is Chair of the Advisory Board.

Jo Youle, CEO Missing People:

Of whom the 100% innocent Kate McCann is an 'ambassador' for.

"The charity Missing People is delighted to be working in partnership with the CSMP.

SMALL WORLD, INNIT?

Thank you jeanmonroe for another fascinating detail relevant to the making of this programme.

Before we lose sight of, and then forget about, a few facts about this programme, we know the following. I make nothing at all of them, save to set them down for the written record on this forum:

THIRTEEN FACTS

1. The programme was called 'The Lying Game' and purported to expose criminals who tell lies
 
2. The programme featured Dr Sharon Leal, a 'Research Fellow' at the University of Portsmouth
 
3. The programme contrasted criminal liars with Doctors Gerald and Kate McCann, who featured in the programme, and whom Dr Leal said were '100% innocent'
 
4. Dr Leal purports to be an expert in 'investigative psychology', a technique that seems to be employed by sections of the insurance industry
 
5. The Centre for the Study of Missing Persons (CSMP) is based at the University of Portsmouth
 
6. The Chairman of the Advisory Board of CSMP is Jo Youle, the Chief Executive Officer for 'Missing People'
 
7. Dr Kate McCann, two years ago, was apppointed an 'Ambassador' for Missing People
 
8. Missing People has made a statement that "The charity Missing People is delighted to be working in partnership with the CSMP"
 
9. 'The Lying Game' was prodcued by Shine TV
 
10. Shine TV is part of the 'Shine Group', whose C-Founder and Chairman is Elisabeth Murdoch, daughter of the world's most powerful media mogul, Rupert Murdoch
 
11. Elisabeth Murdoch is married to Matthew Freud, Owner and Chief Executive Officer of Freud Communications, where in September 2008, the McCanns' chief reputation management adviser, Clarence Mitchell, became employed after ceasing to work for the McCanns full-time 
 
12. In the space of a few years, Clarence Mitchell worked for Tony Blair as Head of his Media Monitoring Unit, and then for David Cameron as his Deputy Director of Communications
 
13. The programme was scheduled to be transmitted on 7 January 2014, the very day that the final day of summing-up in the trial of McCanns v Amaral in the Lisbon Civil Court was slated to take place. 

@PeterMac wrote:Brilliant.
Make a programme about people who have LIED and LIED and LIED again on camera and have been proved to have done so . .
And are in prison for the rest of their natural lives.
And so you have a good programme.
Signed, sealed, and delivered.
And then. . .

You include the McCanns,  
even for a few seconds, even saying C-R have told us we have to say the following  . . .
just "en passant", as you do on TV programmes - include totally extraneous and irrelevant detail, when your programme is controlled down to the last millisecond- - -
Why would you do that ?
Why did they do that?
Did the reference to them ADD to the programme ? Clearly NOT.
So why did they do it ?


They are "stuffed".
The phrase 'done up like a kipper' comes to mind. 

Mr Murdoch is unlikely to to have built his empire without keeping his friends close and his enemies even closer.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Cristobell on 08.01.14 10:10

I'm looking forward to hearing what these experts have to say when the case breaks, which it will. Dr. Sharon Leal has certainly compromised her reputation by saying 'McCanns are 100% innocent when ALL their videos clearly demonstrate the lying techniques she herself describes.

As her career is dependent on her successfully spotting lies, her views on the McCanns are so far off, that all her other work must be called into question. I have no doubt that the bizarre behaviour of the McCanns will be the stuff of text books for years and years to come, all of which seems to have gone over the head of one of the country's leading experts. Unless her remark forms part of some elaborate subterfuge, her credibility is shot to pieces.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Bishop Brennan on 08.01.14 10:13

Popcorn wrote:
There is something a bit fishy about the content and timing of this programme and other recent McCann-related TV activity, and it doesn't reflect well on this country and its media.

I would agree with this. I think the content and timing of this program is the clincher.  The careful coordination of print media and TV programmes all seem to make sense only if it is to prepare the British public for a fully resourced whitewash.  The McCann PR machine is good, but it's not that good. It can drop newspaper stories but it can't influence the MET, the BBC and now this documentary. And it can't dictate TV schedules.  I have a bad feeling about this mission...

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by suzyjohnson on 08.01.14 10:31

That was the same statement where GM said that he was hoping for 'the best possible outcome for us .... and for Madeleine'

I've never heard anyone with a missing child say anything quite like that. Why not just say that they were hopeful to find her as soon as possible, safe and well? Or, given the potentially terrible situation she might be in, why not 'We are hoping for the best possible outcome for Madeleine' whose well being must surely have been the priority? But GM does not say this, instead he says he wants the 'best possible outcome for 'us' and that 'us' does not include Madeleine, so he has to add, '..... and for Madeleine'. 

If GM had not said '..... and for Madeleine' I would have assumed that the 'us' did include Madeleine as part of their family, but GM has made it clear here that the 'us' referred to did not include her. She is an afterthought. Someone he felt he needed to draw attention to at that point, to make clear that he wanted the best possible outcome for Madeleine as well as for them.  

It follows that there must be a reason why Madeleine is not included in the 'us' when usually she would have been included I expect as part of the family. Already (only hours after her disappearance) GM seems to view Madeleine as being not part of the family, not part of the 'us' 

It's possible IMO that the reason for that is because he knows that MM is beyond help, therefore he wants the 'best possible outcome' for the rest of his family. In this context what he has said makes sense IMO.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by russiandoll on 08.01.14 10:35

quote  :  " because their body language experts have kindly sat in judgement and decided the couple are totally innocent."

     Forgive my being pedantic, but while more than one expert commented on the other notorious cases, iirc it was only one person used to comment on the Mcs.

 This video is long but amongst others is worth a watch for what were described by these experts as giveaway indicators.

 Special attention to the non- answer at about 36 minutes to the Q by Sandra F about what they do on a day to day basis to search for Madeleine....distraction, avoidance. The website got a mention, but no mention of what they did to search.

 And there is more of the clip of the McCanns from last night, just Gerry's voice with clips from other videos whilst the words from his first tv statement are heard....to please let Madeleine come back to her family.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 10:37

These are Dr. Sharon Leal's teaching/research details.  I notice she is based on the Faculty of Science.  I'm not sure how 100% innocent can be a valid scientific statement.


Dr Sharon Leal

  • Qualifications: BSc, PhD
  • Role Title: Research Fellow
  • Address: King Henry Building, King Henry 1st Street, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO1 2DY
  • Telephone: 023 9284 6638
  • Email: sharon.leal@port.ac.uk
  • Department: Department of Psychology
  • Faculty: Faculty of Science


Biography
I obtained a first class honours degree in Psychology at the University of Portsmouth in 2000. The following year I completed a Postgraduate Diploma in research methods before embarking upon PhD research. My doctoral research was funded by the E.S.R.C and focused on the Central and Peripheral Physiology of Attention and Cognitive Demand, where multiple physiological responses were examined within the context of varying cognitive demand. Since completing my PhD I have received grants from the E.S.R.C. and UK / US governments to work with Aldert Vrij’s research team.  

Teaching Responsibilities
During my time at Portsmouth I have had many teaching duties including delivering lectures on the following units: Quantitative Analysis for Psychology using SPSS; Biological Psychology and Criminological Psychology. I have also been a personal tutor to year 1 and 2 BSc undergraduates.  

Research Interests
My current research focuses on the behavioural and physiological effects of cognitive load during deception. This research is very relevant for detecting how people engaged in ‘high stake’ deception respond verbally, non-verbally and physiologically. My work involves cooperation with national and international governments and police. I am a member of the European consortium of Psychological Research on Deception Detection (E-prodd). The consortium utilises cutting edge research from laboratories across Europe to optimise the detection of deception in serious crime.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Bishop Brennan on 08.01.14 10:59

I fear that there is a lot of disappointed barrel scraping taking place on the thread. The sad truth is that the British public have been left with another influential 'nudge' that the McCanns are 100% innocent. In fact, more of a blatant 'shove' really.

The contrast to the Portuguese CMTV programme could not be more amazing - they took the entirely opposite view.

For those who believe the McCanns are hiding a dreadful secret, the only hope seems to lie with the PJ, their ability to crack the case and to resist political interference. Past history suggests that this is a 50/50 bet at most.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by gbwales on 08.01.14 11:00

@Cristobell wrote:I'm looking forward to hearing what these experts have to say when the case breaks, which it will.  Dr. Sharon Leal has certainly compromised her reputation by saying 'McCanns are 100% innocent when ALL their videos clearly demonstrate the lying techniques she herself describes.  

As her career is dependent on her successfully spotting lies, her views on the McCanns are so far off, that all her other work must be called into question.  I have no doubt that the bizarre behaviour of the McCanns will be the stuff of text books for years and years to come, all of which seems to have gone over the head of one of the country's leading experts.  Unless her remark forms part of some elaborate subterfuge, her credibility is shot to pieces.


Quite!

Interesting that of all the wealth of video material out there packed with weird body language, classic body language, dodgy linguistics and microsmirks etc - the only piece she/they choose to examine is based on the premise that holding a piece of paper is not indicative of guilt.

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Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.01.14 11:11

Ladyinred wrote:These are Dr. Sharon Leal's teaching/research details:  [SNIPPED]

Research Interests
My current research focuses on the behavioural and physiological effects of cognitive load during deception. This research is very relevant for detecting how people engaged in ‘high stake’ deception respond verbally, non-verbally and physiologically. My work involves cooperation with national and international governments and police. I am a member of the European consortium of Psychological Research on Deception Detection (E-prodd). The consortium utilises cutting edge research from laboratories across Europe to optimise the detection of deception in serious crime.

!

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