The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Page 1 of 11 1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by PeterMac on 01.01.14 15:27

The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .
Documentary in which top forensic psychologists and behavioural experts look with fresh eyes at some of the most notorious criminal cases from the past 20 years in which the perpetrator has appeared in front of the cameras with sham displays of grief.

These include the cases of Stuart Hazell who killed his step-granddaughter, Mitchell Quy who brutally murdered his wife, Ian Huntley who murdered two children in a fit of rage, Karen Matthews who plotted to kidnap her own child and Fadi Nasri who hired a hitman to kill his wife.

Dr Sharon Leal demonstrates the techniques that give away verbal mannerisms which reveal their lies. Cliff Lansley pinpoints how lies are given away through minute movements in the face and body. Kerry Daynes explains the personality types behind these crimes and what motivated them to do what they did.

7th January
What a strange co-incidence !

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Kate McCann's signs of disress were genuine

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.01.14 15:45

http://news.sky.com/story/693684/shannons-mother-believes-her-own-lies


The jailed mother of Shannon Matthews is convinced by her own lies, according to a new documentary.

Karen Matthews is serving an eight year sentence for kidnap, false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice over her daughter's 24-day disappearance.

In a programme screened tonight, neighbour Julie Bushby says she asked the 33-year-old why she did it during a prison visit.

"And she just glared at me actually and then says 'I didn't do it'," Ms Bushby said.

"She's adamant she's totally innocent, absolutely adamant.

"But I think she's lied to herself that much that I think she convinced herself. But it was worth a try."

During the nationwide hunt for the missing nine-year-old, Matthews broke down in tears and admitted to Ms Bushby and another neighbour she knew where her daughter was.

Ms Bushby said she felt "used and abused" as she had led local searches for Shannon.

In Tears, Lies and Videotape, which airs on ITV1, psychologists and body language experts suggest there were clues that Matthews was lying.

They identify tiny movements in her shoulder during her TV appeals and the tendency for her mouth to upturn into a smile as clear signs.

Professor David Canter said the way Matthews clutched Shannon's teddy bear during press conferences was fake.

He suggests she may have tried to copy the genuine signs of distress displayed by the mother of missing child Madeleine McCann.

"She doesn't know quite what to do with it," he said of Matthews.

"It's totally different from the way Kate McCann carried the teddy everywhere with her as some sort of reassurance of her daughter."

Matthews, from Dewsbury, was convicted in January, along with Michael Donovan, her former partner's uncle.

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13972
Reputation : 2147
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Casey5 on 01.01.14 15:55

@Tony Bennett wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/693684/shannons-mother-believes-her-own-lies

"She doesn't know quite what to do with it," he said of Matthews.

"It's totally different from the way Kate McCann carried the teddy everywhere with her as some sort of reassurance of her daughter."
(snipped)
Yes like the way Kate tucked it into her backpack so it was peeping out when she went for her arguido interview?
And I wonder what he makes of the fact that Kate actually washed cuddle cat - probably thinks that's normal too.

Casey5

Posts : 321
Reputation : 18
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by TMH on 01.01.14 16:00

@Casey5 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/693684/shannons-mother-believes-her-own-lies

"She doesn't know quite what to do with it," he said of Matthews.

"It's totally different from the way Kate McCann carried the teddy everywhere with her as some sort of reassurance of her daughter."
(snipped)
Yes like the way Kate tucked it into her backpack so it was peeping out when she went for her arguido interview?
And I wonder what he makes of the fact that Kate actually washed cuddle cat - probably thinks that's normal too.
And then shoved the toy in a cupboard?

TMH

Posts : 192
Reputation : 25
Join date : 2013-02-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 16:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/693684/shannons-mother-believes-her-own-lies


The jailed mother of Shannon Matthews is convinced by her own lies, according to a new documentary.

Karen Matthews is serving an eight year sentence for kidnap, false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice over her daughter's 24-day disappearance.


What percentage of the blame for Karen Matthews' actions could be pinned on the media's lionisation of the McCanns, I wonder?


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Cristobell on 01.01.14 16:20

Surprised Professor Canter didn't say the 'fragrant' Kate, he couldn't have been more sycophantic. If he is one of the experts, its lost credibility already.

Cristobell

Posts : 2436
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-10-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 16:48

Will be interested to see if he produces evidence of Kate's "genuine signs of distress".  After all, isn't this what scientists are supposed to do - back up statements with facts.  Does Canter have links with Liverpool?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 16:53

He was Director of the Centre For Investigative Psychology which is based at the University of Liverpool. Since 2009 he has been at the University of Huddersfield. At Liverpool University Canter developed the MSc programme in Investigative Psychology which he directed until 2007. He no longer directs this programme which has consequently changed to reflect the wider arena of Forensic Psychology and a more balanced view of the field. He is the founder and director of the International Academy for Investigative Psychology, a professional academy for researchers seeking to apply social science to investigative and legal processes.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 16:55

Apologies, forgot to attach source, from Wikipedia.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by mysterion on 01.01.14 17:07

Yes, I would be interested to know what the signs were. What has Liverpool got to do with anything apart from where KM was born and where her parents live?

mysterion

Posts : 358
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-11-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 17:36

It's hard to imagine there can be much new information in this programme, particularly about Ian Huntley, Karen Matthews and Stuart Hazell whose cases are so well documented already.

It's a good thing I didn't have a cup of tea when I read that comment about Kate's "genuine signs of distress" as it would by now have been spluttered over the keyboard.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by MRNOODLES on 01.01.14 18:22

@Tony Bennett wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/693684/shannons-mother-believes-her-own-lies


The jailed mother of Shannon Matthews is convinced by her own lies, according to a new documentary.

Karen Matthews is serving an eight year sentence for kidnap, false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice over her daughter's 24-day disappearance.

In a programme screened tonight, neighbour Julie Bushby says she asked the 33-year-old why she did it during a prison visit.

"And she just glared at me actually and then says 'I didn't do it'," Ms Bushby said.

"She's adamant she's totally innocent, absolutely adamant.

"But I think she's lied to herself that much that I think she convinced herself. But it was worth a try."

During the nationwide hunt for the missing nine-year-old, Matthews broke down in tears and admitted to Ms Bushby and another neighbour she knew where her daughter was.

Ms Bushby said she felt "used and abused" as she had led local searches for Shannon.

In Tears, Lies and Videotape, which airs on ITV1, psychologists and body language experts suggest there were clues that Matthews was lying.

They identify tiny movements in her shoulder during her TV appeals and the tendency for her mouth to upturn into a smile as clear signs.

Professor David Canter said the way Matthews clutched Shannon's teddy bear during press conferences was fake.

He suggests she may have tried to copy the genuine signs of distress displayed by the mother of missing child Madeleine McCann.

"She doesn't know quite what to do with it," he said of Matthews.

"It's totally different from the way Kate McCann carried the teddy everywhere with her as some sort of reassurance of her daughter."


Matthews, from Dewsbury, was convicted in January, along with Michael Donovan, her former partner's uncle.


Eh?  How does this actually work using KM as a bench mark?

MRNOODLES

Posts : 637
Reputation : 200
Join date : 2013-07-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

The McCanns are innocent. Clearly innocent. Absolutely, clearly innocent

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.01.14 18:57

@MRNOODLES wrote:
Eh?  How does this actually work using KM as a bench mark?

Here is is another person (see below in blue) explaining himself about the obvious innocence of the McCanns in the ITV programme, which featured Karen Matthews, Tracey Andrews and another similar case.

This Transcript is from mccannfiles. At this point I just want to digress for a moment and pay a very warm and generous tribute to Nigel Moore of McCannFiles. Just as the forum-owner and 'candyfloss' have kept this place ticking over for over 4 years for the benefit of so many, so has Nigel Moore kept his 'McCann encyclopaedia' ticking over for well over 5 years. And he has the valuable Dr Martin Roberts on board as well (wink).

So I'd like to wish Nigel a happy and successful New Year and thank him once again for his energy and dedication to recording as much information as possible on the McCann case for us all to use. He has personally spent hours painstakingly giving us trannscripts of relevant interviews and programmes, and that's where I draw the extract below from. These transcripts are a veritable mine of information. In thanking Nigel, there are no doubt many others deserve thanks, not least the Portuguese-English translators who have given us so much - but it would be completely wrong for me not to acknowledge 'pamalam's heroic efforts as well - and also to wish her a Happy New Year.

That bit over, here's the transcript of the very end of the programme, with various people talking over the issues raised:

+++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id243.html

Footage of KM and Craig during the search

RE: “Those performances were Oscar-winning and I don’t hesitate to hold my hands up and say that I, like everyone else, was absolutely taken in by her.”

JB: “People felt anger, frustration. Yeah, I suppose they felt a lot like me. Used. Used and abused.”

Footage of neighbours carrying a banner during the search

MA: “Everyone just got taken for idiots. I think everyone just pulled back after that. Just being used made us look stupid.”

PJ: “I felt like I’d been punched in the stomach by someone I trusted.”

MA: “She’ll get out. Sell her story, no doubt. Then she’ll be off. No problems. It’s Shannon now. And Shannon’s brothers and sisters. She’s hurt all them people and she’s not bothered. So long as she’s alright herself.”

Footage of boarded-up house, former home of KM

Voiceover: “Karen Matthews and Michael Donovan were both sentenced to 8 years for kidnapping and falsely imprisoning Shannon. Even after the trial, it was still no clearer as to why Karen had allowed her own daughter to be abducted.”

MA: “To be honest, I just told Megan straight away it was Shannon’s mum that had something to do with it. ‘Why? Why would her mum do that to her?’ ‘I can’t tell you that. I’ve no idea’ and then it’s just ‘Why? Why? Why?’”

Picture of KM in handcuffs

Prof DC: “I think the claim that Karen and Donovan were somehow or other setting things up to get some reward money for finding Shannon doesn’t really hold a lot of water. It’s very difficult to work out how they thought that could happen.”

JB: “I personally don’t think it was for the reward. I don’t know what it was for. I don’t know… It could have been attention.”

Footage of a taxi driving along a street

Voiceover: “It’s now a year since Karen was arrested. Is she ready to give us anymore answers?”

Julie is in the back of the taxi

Voiceover: “Julie Bushby visits Karen in prison to see if she’s ready to talk.”

Taxi turns down a road sign posted ‘HM Prison’

JB: “I just said ‘Why did you do it?’ and she just glared at me actually and then says ‘I didn’t do it’ She’s adamant she’s totally innocent. Absolutely adamant. I mean, a year on and she’s still coming out with the same story. Well, she’s still claiming that she’s innocent and she’s being used as the scapegoat but I think she’s lying to herself that much that she’s convinced herself. But…it was worth a try.”

Footage of press conferences

Voiceover: “Have Karen and others like her made it impossible now for anyone else in that situation to be believed?”

MA: “If someone goes missing and you come on TV and appeal for them, straight away people are going to think you’ve got something to do with it. This is what’s annoying. There are genuine people out there who do want their loved one back and they are innocent but it’s people like Karen and others that make you question them.”

JB: “You’ll always be there looking now. Looking for a tell-tale sign in their eyes, their mouth, the words. Looking for that little grin.”

Prof DC: “People will always be curious about whether they’re telling the truth or not and I think now with all these cases of crocodile tears, the public will be even more sceptical.”

IJ: “As a result of the Tracey Andrews case I am more sceptical about victims. You know, you start to look to see if you can spot the flaws. You start to think about whether they’ve set themselves on this sort of story or not.”

JB: “I’d do it again. If a child went missing again I’d do it again.”

RC: “I don’t think my attitude has changed. I think that genuine people making public appeals touch my heart now just as much as they ever did. And I can give you an example. The McCanns. Clearly innocent. Absolutely clearly innocent. And they have my greatest sympathy. Nothing’s changed.”

RE: “What I’ve been concentrating on, as hopefully have a lot of people, is that there is actually a happy ending to this, in that Shannon was found. She was found safe and she’s now going to go on to a better life.”

Closes with a picture of Shannon Matthews 
 

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13972
Reputation : 2147
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 19:05

@Tony Bennett wrote:
RC: “I don’t think my attitude has changed. I think that genuine people making public appeals touch my heart now just as much as they ever did. And I can give you an example. The McCanns. Clearly innocent. Absolutely clearly innocent. And they have my greatest sympathy. Nothing’s changed.”


That's interesting in itself though. There's clearly something about them, some quality that they display, that causes certain people to form certain opinions of them. I never thought they weren't involved, to be honest, but I formed that opinion from mostly radio coverage and it was a few days in before I'd seen them or heard them speak and I think, by that point, that my mind was already made up.

But if they'd "got to me" first? I might not be posting this now.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by notlongnow on 01.01.14 19:28

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
RC: “I don’t think my attitude has changed. I think that genuine people making public appeals touch my heart now just as much as they ever did. And I can give you an example. The McCanns. Clearly innocent. Absolutely clearly innocent. And they have my greatest sympathy. Nothing’s changed.”


That's interesting in itself though. There's clearly something about them, some quality that they display, that causes certain people to form certain opinions of them. I never thought they weren't involved, to be honest, but I formed that opinion from mostly radio coverage and it was a few days in before I'd seen them or heard them speak and I think, by that point, that my mind was already made up.

But if they'd "got to me" first? I might not be posting this now.
He must be the worlds worst expert?

notlongnow

Posts : 481
Reputation : 45
Join date : 2013-10-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Guest on 01.01.14 20:10

RC isn't the expert.  Prof. DC is.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by russiandoll on 01.01.14 20:36

well now I am confused. From my reading Canter was doubtful re McCann behaviour at one time and the words attributed to him here comparing Kate and Sharon are words I heard in a t v interview with the renowned criminologist Prof David Wilson.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

What to watch

Post by RIPM on 01.01.14 20:51

RC may be Rod Chaytor a Daily Mirror journalist and therefore would not be an expert in anything except bullshit.  Not Professor David Canter

RIPM

Posts : 106
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by kevmack on 01.01.14 21:19

Considering the dog alerts though I suppose that the genuine grief aspect could be as a result of Kate being fully aware that her daughter was , most definitely gone and would not be coming back unlike Karen Mathews who knew her daughter was alive and well.  Though I don't agree with Cantor's other assessment that the McCanns are totally innocent, just the point he made about Kate displaying genuine grief and possibly fear as well, fear of getting caught in my opinion.

kevmack

Posts : 238
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-12-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.01.14 21:40

@RIPM wrote:RC may be Rod Chaytor a Daily Mirror journalist and therefore would not be an expert in anything...

Here is more of Rod Chaytor's work:

 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kate-and-gerry-mccann-promise-theyll-218167

30 April 2010

Kate and Gerry McCann promise they'll never give up searching for Madeleine

By Rod Chaytor

Kate and Gerry McCann last night made an emotional appeal to their daughter Madeleine to mark the third anniversary of her ­disappearance.

Her father, now 41, reassured the little girl: “Madeleine, we’re still looking for you. Tell someone who your mummy and daddy are, who you are.”

His wife said they would not stop searching for their child, who was nearly four when she went missing from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in 2007 while her parents dined with friends nearby.

Kate, 42, said: “We love you very much, Madeleine, and we’re not going to stop what we’re doing.”

The couple, from Rothley, Leicestershire, will mark Monday’s anniversary in private but revealed they now feel less guilty about enjoying themselves in her absence.



Kate said: “I’m able to look at it now and think it’s positive we’re functioning. It’s positive for Madeleine and for Sean and Amelie (her five-year-old twin siblings) and unless you’re in this situation you have no idea how you cope.”

Gerry said that laughter and happiness were essential for living a normal life.



“The guilt, where you feel ‘Madeleine is missing so how can you enjoy yourself?’ is much, much, much less than it was,” he revealed. “If you’re going to have some sort of normality, you’ve got to have some laughter and some joy.”

He also said that there were new leads to follow. He added: “Our private investigators have identified new information that needs investigating and other areas where we think there could be further meaningful information.

“But we have to be realistic. We do not have the same ability to follow up lines of inquiry that the police do.”

However, the authorities, he complained, had hardly been providing a “Rolls-Royce service”.

He said: “The key test is, ‘Has everything that could reasonably have been done, been done?’ And the answer to that is no. There’s no law enforcement that’s been pro-actively doing anything for 18 months.”

 

 Check out all the latest Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13972
Reputation : 2147
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Lance De Boils on 01.01.14 23:47

Do we know who the 'experts' will be on the programme PM started this thread about?
Hopefully not the same as those on the previous, similar programmes.

[Off to have a peep.]

Lance De Boils

Posts : 805
Reputation : 14
Join date : 2011-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Lance De Boils on 01.01.14 23:49

Answering my own question!

Dr Sharon Leal, a leading forensic psychologist and expert on lying will analyse the on-screen performance of these criminals. For the first time on TV, she will demonstrate the techniques that pinpoint the verbal tells which signal they are lying.  Through interviews and experiments she will show us that we have traditionally looked for all the wrong cues when attempting to expose a liar, but that with the right training, we can become better at telling truth from fiction. 
 
Cliff Lansley, Behavioural Analysis Expert and specialist in the physical signs of deception, will pinpoint how lies are given away through minute movements in the face and body. 
 
Whilst Kerry Daynes, a Clinical Forensic Psychologist, with years of experience working with criminals, will explain the personality types behind these crimes and what motivated them to do what they did.

http://www.itv.com/presscentre/ep1week2/lying-game-crimes-fooled-britain

Lance De Boils

Posts : 805
Reputation : 14
Join date : 2011-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by plebgate on 01.01.14 23:51

Sending a message to Maddie to say they are still looking for her, then going on to say that they feel less guilty about  enjoying themselves in Maddie's absence and laughter is essential for living a normal life.   ??????????

Can't believe what I am reading, I really cannot.    shutup

Edited re. spelling

plebgate

Posts : 5445
Reputation : 1160
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Lying Game: Crimes That Fooled Britain .... Tuesday, January 7th, 2014 - ITV at 9:00pm,

Post by Tony Bennett on 02.01.14 0:13

@plebgate wrote:Sending a message to Maddie to say they are still looking for her, then going on to say that they feel less guilty about  enjoying themselves in Maddie's absence and laughter is essential for living a normal life.  

The actual quote from Dr Gerald McCann is that they (both) are, quote "MUCH, MUCH, MUCH less guilty than we were"

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13972
Reputation : 2147
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 11 1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum