The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.


Jill Havern
Forum owner

How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

View previous topic View next topic Go down

How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by SixMillionQuid on 17.12.13 18:09

...from the outside? When they say "closed" I assume the patio door is slid shut so you can't get your fingers in any gaps

We know the MCanns & Co are focusing on the rear patio door as a point of entry for the abductor because the broken shutters are no longer hip / trendy. But according former residents of apt 5A you can't close the patio doors from the outside

Photo 14 - there's no handle on the outside
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SA-L-GO.htm
We noticed that it was only possible to close the patio door from the inside of the apartment, not from the outside

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm
We did not use the pool-side doors as it was not possible to close them from the outside.

But somehow the McCanns could close the patio doors from the outside

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
They left by the veranda door, which they left closed but not locked.

Even Matt encountered a closed patio door

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
4078 'And you said when you went in you went in through the patio door''
Reply 'Yeah'

4078 'Or the poolside door''
Reply 'Yeah'.

4078 'How did you know to go through there''
Reply 'Well Kate said that that one was open'.

4078 'And when did she say that''
Reply 'When I offered to go and, erm, go and look'.

4078 'Okay'.
Reply 'Because I said do you want me to check the kids and she said yeah the patio door is open'.

4078 'Okay'.
Reply 'I mean, it was closed, it wasn't sort of open'.

4078 'And I am assuming it is a slide open door, is that correct''
Reply 'Yeah'.

00.33.23 4078 'So you slid the door open''
Reply 'Yeah'.

So I can't work out how you close a door from the outside that can't be closed from the outside and then slide open this closed door with no door handle on the outside.

SixMillionQuid

Posts : 436
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-10-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by Guest on 17.12.13 18:45

It's possible, IF they slide easily, but then you'd have quite a lot of complete handprints on the outside. I've heard of none.

If they're unlocked, yet completely closed, most of this kind of sliding door I know, fall into lock automatically [as witnessed by quite some hotel guests worldwide, who found themselves locked out on the balcony :-(  But O.K. that might have changed meanwhile ...]

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by SixMillionQuid on 17.12.13 21:40

If the patio door was closed I would be expecting to use palm of their hands as leverage to get the door open.

Finger prints from the patio door were taken on 4th May (page 2)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm 

"B - Pages 967-972 Processo vol 4.
At 11:00am on 4 May 2007 I, IT, assistant-specialist, began to examine the following location:
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered."


But only one print was identified and that was one of the GNR officers first on the scene (report 140/07). So if his print was identified, why couldn't Kate, Gerry or Matt's prints be identified too?

SixMillionQuid

Posts : 436
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-10-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 11:11

@SixMillionQuid wrote:If the patio door was closed I would be expecting to use palm of their hands as leverage to get the door open.

Finger prints from the patio door were taken on 4th May (page 2)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm 

"B - Pages 967-972 Processo vol 4.
At 11:00am on 4 May 2007 I, IT, assistant-specialist, began to examine the following location:
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered."


But only one print was identified and that was one of the GNR officers first on the scene (report 140/07). So if his print was identified, why couldn't Kate, Gerry or Matt's prints be identified too?

SixMillionQuid
Your 'link' isn't working.

this one is.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

So Matthew Oldfield's 'prints' WOULD be on the sliding patio door then!

jeanmonroe

Posts : 5176
Reputation : 925
Join date : 2013-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by Mirage on 18.12.13 11:31

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote:If the patio door was closed I would be expecting to use palm of their hands as leverage to get the door open.

Finger prints from the patio door were taken on 4th May (page 2)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm 

"B - Pages 967-972 Processo vol 4.
At 11:00am on 4 May 2007 I, IT, assistant-specialist, began to examine the following location:
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered."


But only one print was identified and that was one of the GNR officers first on the scene (report 140/07). So if his print was identified, why couldn't Kate, Gerry or Matt's prints be identified too?

SixMillionQuid
Your 'link' isn't working.

this one is.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

So Matthew Oldfield's 'prints' WOULD be on the sliding patio door then!

Hmm. What was that we heard from Hogan-Howe about two separate investigations? And wanting the big boys of the EU brought in to amalgamate them? Hmm, Has there been a little bit less evidence sharing than we were led to believe?

Wonder what it is in that 20%  files the PJ held back? I wonder if HH knows what is in that 20%? Did he stamp his little footie wootie cos the PJ wouldn't roll over and have their tummy tickled during multiple charm offensives? Is there a slippy slidey fingerprint on that patio door that the "inept" Portuguese overlooked when they allowed the apartment to be forensically trashed - before they were even called in, of course

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

Mirage

Posts : 1667
Reputation : 382
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 11:48

Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent (GM) opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered.

SO DIDN'T LEAVE THE PATIO DOOR UNLOCKED.

That they left the house by the main door, that he (GM) was sure he locked, it being that the rear door was also closed and locked.

SO DIDN'T LEAVE THE PATIO DOOR UNLOCKED.

Returning to Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he (GM) having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.

SO DIDN'T LEAVE THE PATIO DOOR UNLOCKED.

the deponent (GM) left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside.

SO DIDN'T LEAVE THE PATIO DOOR UNLOCKED

After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent (GM) having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.

SO DIDN'T LEAVE THE PATIO DOOR UNLOCKED

Despite what he said in his (GM) previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside. Referring to the front door, while he is certain that it was closed it is unlikely that it was locked as [because] they had left by the rear door.

SO ON 'ABDUCTION' NIGHT HE SUDDENLY LEAVES BOTH FRONT AND PATIO DOORS UNLOCKED!

THE SAME PATIO AND FRONT DOORS HE (GM) HAS BEEN LOCKING ALL WEEK, EVERY TIME THE FAMILY HAVE LEFT THE APARTMENT!

WHY WOULD THE 'ABDUCTOR' RISK BEING 'SEEN' FROM THE TAPAS 'SIDE' WHEN HE/SHE, WHO HAD BEEN WATCHING ALL WEEK, SUPPOSEDLY, COULD HAVE, VERY EASILY, GOT INTO THE APARTMENT TOTALLY OUT OF SIGHT OF ANYONE, AT THE TAPAS, BY GOING THROUGH THE UNSIGHTABLE, UNLOCKED, FRONT DOOR?

He (GM) followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge

SO GM's 'PRINTS' MUST BE ON THE PATIO SLIDING DOOR, AS WELL AS OLDFIELDS AND KATE MCCANNS'.

jeanmonroe

Posts : 5176
Reputation : 925
Join date : 2013-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 12:01

Mirage wrote:
What was that we heard from Hogan-Howe about two separate investigations?
...........................................................................................

SY= only THE 'abduction' as reported ONLY by the parents of the 'abducted' child.
PJ= Investigating 'possible' people who may have been involved in a 'simulated abduction' of a 'missing' child

And ne'er the twain shall meet.

jeanmonroe

Posts : 5176
Reputation : 925
Join date : 2013-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by SixMillionQuid on 18.12.13 18:47

Thank you for picking up the those points Jean. By remarkable coincidence and for no apparent reason they decided to leave patio door unlocked on Thursday night.

But even if it was left unlocked but closed, as Kate and Gerry claim, they're going to have great difficulty opening that door from the outside unless they've hands like a Geko's feet. The finger prints were taken from the patio doors and windows around the apartment on the 4th May and the subsequent analysis did not identify Kate, Gerry or Matts finger prints on the patio door, but the prints of one of the GNR officers.

So I can't work out how they were able to open and close the patio door from the outside, when two previous residents have confirmed this can't be done from the outside and not leave any identifiable finger prints.

SixMillionQuid

Posts : 436
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-10-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by Over The Hill on 18.12.13 21:21

Have only just found this thread but have been discussing this topic on the latest news thread, apologies for repeating myself

Nobody leaves a holiday apartment by the patio door for the reasons mentioned above

The entrance/exit is the front door, which requires a key

However, it doesn't mean that the other door can't be left accidentally unlocked or even open

Allowing what was inside to reach the outside

Over The Hill

Posts : 82
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-11-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by SixMillionQuid on 19.12.13 19:06

If the patio door was left open they must have left gap to the fingers in. Problem is that they confirmed the door was shut closed, which means there's no gap to stick your fingers through.

Going from inside the apartment to outside there is no problem in sliding the door open. But if you've closed it behind you on they way out, youre going to struggle getting back in without leaving your hand prints all over the door frame / window. So that presents another problem especially for the abductor. How did they get that door open from the outside if it was shut closed.

SixMillionQuid

Posts : 436
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-10-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by Five Star on 06.01.14 3:04

& why do people find it suspicious that the door was open a little further than it was? When people were going in and out the flat using the patio doors ,as soon as they get it open a breeze/draft could move the door, and that all there is to it!    IMO....  spin

Five Star

Posts : 110
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-02-21
Location : erf

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by Briohazard on 06.01.14 5:51

I'm pretty sure in the mockumentary Gerry opens the patio door, I don't have enough internet credit to watch YouTube at the moment but if someone can find it it will show if he naturally puts his hands in the glass or not. Or if it looks easy to open etc

Briohazard

Posts : 96
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-24
Age : 33
Location : South Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by Doug D on 06.01.14 9:57

Crimewatch 14th October 2013
 
Although it is not the correct apartment and the kid’s bedroom door opens the wrong way, the reconstruction shows the GM actor apparently coming from the patio doors, rather than from the front door which would be immediately to the left outside the bedroom.  You do not see him actually entering the apartment or opening the patio doors.

Doug D

Posts : 2184
Reputation : 674
Join date : 2013-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: How do you close a patio door that cant be closed...

Post by SixMillionQuid on 06.01.14 16:38

@Briohazard wrote:I'm pretty sure in the mockumentary Gerry opens the patio door, I don't have enough internet credit to watch YouTube at the moment but if someone can find it it will show if he naturally puts his hands in the glass or not. Or if it looks easy to open etc

Check video 4 at 4:20.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id235.html

Your're almost correct. When the camera cuts to the door being slid open, it is already halfway open. You dont see it in the closed position and Gerry opening it. when they're all in the apartment you can see the patio door is closed shut.

SixMillionQuid

Posts : 436
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-10-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum