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More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by tigger on 18.12.13 7:17


Thank you, the top one - Redwood and Amaral is giving me a glimmer of hope.... Although I still think AR is under instrucions to put the whole thing to bed and it leaves him the opportunity to have Smithman as unknown abductor.

Lazzeri is brilliant - man woman journalist? Why the name Lazzeri...

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by PeterMac on 18.12.13 8:29

@tigger wrote:
Lazzeri is brilliant - man woman journalist?  Why the name Lazzeri...
I take it to be a pun on Lazzeri who writes for the Sun, and who was responsible for much of the total garbage in the early days.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by bobbin on 18.12.13 9:26

@tigger wrote:

Thank you, the top one - Redwood and Amaral is giving me a glimmer of hope.... Although I still think AR is under instrucions to put the whole thing to bed and it leaves him the opportunity to have Smithman  as unknown abductor.

Lazzeri is brilliant - man woman journalist?  Why the name Lazzeri...
I, like you, am cynical about a 'non-whitewashed' outcome, however, the above highlighting poses a few problems still.
An 'Unknown' abductor can really be dismissed for at least two reasons.
1. No 'stranger' forensic evidence whatsoever, could be found and identified in the apartment, no marks of entry, exit, no signs of forced entry, scraped lichen on window sill etc.
2. Those dogs and their cadavour odour / blood findings.
If the 'child' being carried by the 'stranger abductor' had been dead for long enough to leave cadavour odour in the apartment and garden, then the corpse being carried would have issued a detectable smell in the air where each of the Smith family members passed by, in close proximity.
The child would have lost blood, such as was found in the tile grouting and on the apartment walls, so one would be obliged to imagine a certain 'lifeless-ness'.
The head would be limp, if a 'dead' child, and unless the 'stranger abductor' were holding the head in an upright position with a firm hand, then the head would have flopped. This was NOT noticed by the Smith family.
To all intents and purposes, it looked like a child being held across the back, (as on the reminiscent airport steps photo) albeit with pale skin, and improperly dressed.
Since Gerry and all of his little-helper-visiting-tapas-friends claim that Maddie was alive and well at 9 p.m. / 9.15 p.m. (Gerry, the proud father moment) and then at 9.30 p.m. (Matthew Oldfield) then in, before or during, that time, the 'stranger abductor' would have to have killed the child, in the lounge and certainly somewhat violently, for the blood to have sprayed onto the walls and leak into the floor grouting, where she would have to have lain for long enough for cadavour odour to develop.
All of this happening, in the lounge that Gerry, if he had entered by the patio door, and Matt Oldfield had definitely claimed to have passed through, neither of them seeing any of this violent act, and in a time span that simply does not permit this sequence of events.
So we've got 9.30 p.m. witness Matt Oldfield, finding everything quiet. Kate at 10 p.m. passing through the lounge, finding Madeleine 'gone'.
The violent blood spraying event that killed the child, got mysteriously cleaned with bleach in that half hour window of opportunity, and cadavour odour set in, on items various, including cuddle cat who was on the high shelf, which didn't exist, but on the bed, beside the pillow which yielded no sign of being slept in or on, and no forensic evidence whatsoever, of Madeleine the child to be found on the bed or in the apartment itself.
It's interesting how the 'psychological' threads on this forum are highlighting the characteristics of socio/psychopath behaviour.
The main ones being the ability to 'lie' and yet being 'stupid/childish enough to think that the lies are being believed'.
If there is a cover up, it will be because those that wish it to be covered up, have the positions of power to ensure that 'common sense, honest justice' will be quashed.
But the 'truth-seekers' press on, relentless, and as we have seen, even after many years, when the matter is not allowed to be left alone, a re-opening is forced upon that which was quashed.
If Andy Redwood has any shred of integrity, pride in his work and the position that he has attained after a lengthy career in the Police Force, and if he wishes to retire secure in the knowledge that he did his best to attain justice for a truly harmless little girl, then he will ensure, by some means or another, that there be no white wash, whatever pressure may be put upon him to do otherwise.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by russiandoll on 18.12.13 9:45

CW is worth another viewing. I was struck the second time around by the 10pm highlighting and repetition.
 The time of the alarm being raised and the same time, exactly, of the Smith sighting. The male presenter did not say just before or approximately 10pm an Irish family saw a man carrying a child.

 We heard 10pm mentioned for the raising of the alarm and the exact same time for the sighting, Kirsty Young's words were iirc Let's concentrate on 10pm.
  SY know. They know

 So we have 2 simultaneous events, the big question being does Gerry McCann have a cast iron alibi for 9.50-9.55?

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by aiyoyo on 18.12.13 10:26

@tigger wrote:

Thank you, the top one - Redwood and Amaral is giving me a glimmer of hope.... Although I still think AR is under instrucions to put the whole thing to bed and it leaves him the opportunity to have Smithman  as unknown abductor.

Lazzeri is brilliant - man woman journalist?  Why the name Lazzeri...

My gut instinct says writer is a woman who has spare time on hand; and has thoroughly read the case inside out and backward a few times.
She's very astute in her analysis.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 10:26

russiandoll wrote:
So we have 2 simultaneous events, the big question being does Gerry McCann have a cast iron alibi for 9.50-9.55?
.............................................................................

Gerrys' 'cast iron alibi' was chatting to Wilkins and everyone at the tapas table mentioning his 'meeting' with JW when he returned from his 'check' and Tanner 'seeing' Madeleine being 'carried off' (in IDENTICAL pyjamas, even though she didn't KNOW, at that exact time, according to GM)!

But as we all know now the pyjamas were, in fact, totally different, according to DCI Redwood.

So that GM 'alibi' has been totally blown away, supposedly, by Redwood.

if 'smithman' is 'cleared' then the McCanns have absolutely NO provable 'evidence' of an 'abduction'

As their very expensive Carter Ruck lawyer, Isabel Martorell, sheepishly, confirmed in a High Court.

ONLY their 'say so'

Not even the rest of the T7. THEY weren't there.

They were only TOLD of 'abduction' by the McCanns.

EVERYTHING the T7 have ever uttered is HEARSAY!

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 18.12.13 10:28

Gerry has no alibi at all, the statements of the Tapas bar staff and other witnesses contradict the 10pm alert by Kate, indicating that the diners were missing apart from Dianne Webster much earlier than 10.

I'm sure that Scotland Yard are aware of this.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by PeterMac on 18.12.13 11:00

@bobbin wrote:
Since Gerry and all of his little-helper-visiting-tapas-friends claim that Maddie was alive and well at 9 p.m. / 9.15 p.m. (Gerry, the proud father moment) and then at 9.30 p.m. (Matthew Oldfield)

Can we just pick up on that one.

ONLY Gerry and Kate say that Madeleine was alive on 3rd May
Oldfield specifically got himself out of the hole he was being dropped into by the McCanns ( = Being the Last person to see her alive) and is very careful to say he did NOT see her.  And then to explain why, even though his explanation is clearly nonsense, he is twisting and turning like a "twisty-turny thing'"
The Payne visit is not worth considering. There are at least three different versions.   None may be anywhere near the truth.
The entire rest of the crew go down to the Paraiso - for the first and the last time - totally out of synch with anything they have done before, and are therefore suddenly unable to give any confirmation that Madeleine was at tea  - or was NOT at tea.
The Last Photo is extremely suspect, and has been used so deliberately, and in such a contrived Mitchell fashion as "evidence", that one must question almost every aspect of it.
Kate explains Madeleine's lack of visibility by saying she was exhausted, shattered and had to be carried back to the apartment - this after two hours of light afternoon finger-painting.  
There was no sailing, scuba, wind-surfing, weightlifting, downhill ski racing, show jumping, or heptathlon. . . for her that afternoon.

The ONLY people who say she was alive on 3rd are the McCanns.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by aiyoyo on 18.12.13 11:41

@jeanmonroe wrote:russiandoll wrote:
So we have 2 simultaneous events, the big question being does Gerry McCann have a cast iron alibi for 9.50-9.55?
.............................................................................

Gerrys' 'cast iron alibi' was chatting to Wilkins and everyone at the tapas table mentioning his 'meeting' with JW when he returned from his 'check' and Tanner 'seeing' Madeleine being 'carried off' (in IDENTICAL pyjamas, even though she didn't KNOW, at that exact time, according to GM)!

But as we all know now the pyjamas were, in fact, totally different, according to DCI Redwood.

So that GM 'alibi' has been totally blown away, supposedly, by Redwood.

if 'smithman' is 'cleared' then the McCanns have absolutely NO provable 'evidence' of an 'abduction'

ONLY their 'say so'

Not even the rest of the T7. THEY weren't there.

They were only TOLD of 'abduction' by the McCanns.

HEARSAY!

From what was put out so far it would appear Grange did not believe Tannerman exist or was the abductor ( depending how you read into the TIE of Tannerman).
But Tannerman is out of the equation - that much is clear.

The main point if not whole point of the CW comes down to the circulation of 2-Efits; meaning for reasons known only to Grange they sought info from or about those two men. Leaving one to deduce that Grange gave credence to Smith's sighting and thus obliged to trace, investigation, eliminate or not eliminate this man depending what comes in.

Why the Police did not simply put out the e-fits without the expense of the CW remains a $64 question which is not explained to us.
If one really ponders as to the possible reason for the CW it can be argued that the reconstruction was deemed necessary to help jostle people's memory.
CW being a programme with a story to sell attracts audience; whereas 2 e-fits without a story to hold the viewers attention would probably not affect people in the manner that can yield results the Police are seeking.

What's clear about the CW is that Grange is seeking info about the 2-men, might I say in spite of their own theory and all the rest of the things they are working on. CW does not help the public to gain any further knowledge where Grange are leading the investigations to.
The public are still kept in the dark as to what really happened to Madeleine - was she abducted or was she not - the MET is not telling us.


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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by ultimaThule on 18.12.13 11:46

With regard to the elimination of Tanner-Crechman and the resultant emphasis on Smithman, it would indeed be poetic justice if one lie nailed a thousand others and brought the perpetrators of this heinous crime to account.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by aiyoyo on 18.12.13 12:08

@PeterMac wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
Since Gerry and all of his little-helper-visiting-tapas-friends claim that Maddie was alive and well at 9 p.m. / 9.15 p.m. (Gerry, the proud father moment) and then at 9.30 p.m. (Matthew Oldfield)

Can we just pick up on that one.

ONLY Gerry and Kate say that Madeleine was alive on 3rd May
Oldfield specifically got himself out of the hole he was being dropped into by the McCanns ( = Being the Last person to see her alive) and is very careful to say he did NOT see her.  And then to explain why, even though his explanation is clearly nonsense, he is twisting and turning like a "twisty-turny thing'"
The Payne visit is not worth considering. There are at least three different versions.   None may be anywhere near the truth.
The entire rest of the crew go down to the Paraiso - for the first and the last time - totally out of synch with anything they have done before, and are therefore suddenly unable to give any confirmation that Madeleine was at tea  - or was NOT at tea.
The Last Photo is extremely suspect, and has been used so deliberately, and in such a contrived Mitchell fashion as "evidence", that one must question almost every aspect of it.
Kate explains Madeleine's lack of visibility by saying she was exhausted, shattered and had to be carried back to the apartment - this after two hours of light afternoon finger-painting.  
There was no sailing, scuba, wind-surfing, weightlifting, downhill ski racing, show jumping, or heptathlon. . . for her that afternoon.

The ONLY people who say she was alive on 3rd are the McCanns.

You missed out there was also no children tennis on the 3rd.

The whole bunch of holiday friends (most if not all*) knew Madeleine met her fate before the 3rd, and agreed to go along with Mccanns plan to cover up.
It's apparent they were dropped into the 3rd story by the Mccnns bad script , but unfortunately for them it was too late for them to extricate themselves out of that hole.  Their fate was sealed the moment they agreed to help the Mccanns in their cover up.

They may not have actively involved/participated in the after the fact, but they knew what was going on.

* IMO, all the couples knew before the 3rd about Madeleine fate, apart from Diane Webster who was late into the picture, dragged inadvertently into this hellhole where there's also no return. Stay silent or drag her whole family down, not much of a choice really.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by PeterMac on 18.12.13 12:26

@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
Since Gerry and all of his little-helper-visiting-tapas-friends claim that Maddie was alive and well at 9 p.m. / 9.15 p.m. (Gerry, the proud father moment) and then at 9.30 p.m. (Matthew Oldfield)

Can we just pick up on that one.

ONLY Gerry and Kate say that Madeleine was alive on 3rd May
Oldfield specifically got himself out of the hole he was being dropped into by the McCanns ( = Being the Last person to see her alive) and is very careful to say he did NOT see her.  And then to explain why, even though his explanation is clearly nonsense, he is twisting and turning like a "twisty-turny thing'"
The Payne visit is not worth considering. There are at least three different versions.   None may be anywhere near the truth.
The entire rest of the crew go down to the Paraiso - for the first and the last time - totally out of synch with anything they have done before, and are therefore suddenly unable to give any confirmation that Madeleine was at tea  - or was NOT at tea.
The Last Photo is extremely suspect, and has been used so deliberately, and in such a contrived Mitchell fashion as "evidence", that one must question almost every aspect of it.
Kate explains Madeleine's lack of visibility by saying she was exhausted, shattered and had to be carried back to the apartment - this after two hours of light afternoon finger-painting.  
There was no sailing, scuba, wind-surfing, weightlifting, downhill ski racing, show jumping, or heptathlon. . . for her that afternoon.
The ONLY people who say she was alive on 3rd are the McCanns.
You missed out there was also no children tennis on the 3rd.
.

Yes, Quite so. Fiona Payne tried to say she had see Madeleine playing tennis on 3rd, but her husband corrects that in his rogatory, at some length and with considerable vigour.
More forcefully that one might have thought necessary, - - which leads one to think it was absolutely VITAL for him and for Fiona that they had not seen, nor pretended to see, Madeleine on 3rd.

There is no credible independent evidence of Madeleine's continued existence on Thursday 3rd May.
The McCanns elaborate and contrived statements and accounts are the only testimony available, (so far as I can see, obviously.) and even they are contradictory and confused.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by Bishop Brennan on 18.12.13 12:35

@aiyoyo wrote:

Why the Police did not simply put out the e-fits without the expense of the CW remains a $64 question which is not explained to us.
If one really ponders as to the possible reason for the CW it can be argued that the reconstruction was deemed necessary to help jostle people's memory.  

That IS a good question. What was the point of CW? I wonder if the main point of CW was to, publicly and to a huge audience, demolish once and for all Tannerman and the 9:15 abduction. After all, this had been the dominant narrative since day 1. Simply putting out new E-Fits would have not done that. Remember that in the McCann TV reconstruction and in Kate's book, Tannerman and Smithman are the same person.

Sure it was dressed up with talk of phantom figures on the balcony, random men standing around the street, and charity collectors - but even Redwood had the grace to look a bit sheepish when talking about them. No, the goal I think of CW was the obliteration of the 5-year old story of the Tannerman abduction, and the clear distinction between the 9;15 and 10pm sighting.

Remember too, that at the update, Redwood specifically did not ask for any more calls / help. He thanked us for the 3500 calls so far (very polite). But of course they will have been useless. No need to get any more!!!

The international media and public now know that the Tannerman abduction is gone. And that whatever happened, didn't happen at 9.15pm. Job Done.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by Hobs on 18.12.13 12:47

Antonella legionella and i have crossed swords, she stomped off in a mjaor huff so 2-0 to moi

----- Original Message -----
From: Lazzeri, Antonella
To: xxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: killer may hold key to maddie hunt


Kate and Gerry have asked several times for the case to be reopened, most recently about two months ago. They did agree to go back for the reconstruction but only if it was allowed to be filmed as they believed that would help in the hunt for Madeleine. In fact Gerry did go back for a reconstruction for a TV documentary.

As for not searching, Kate was absolutely in a hysterical, terrible state, I don't think she was capable of searching. I wish you people would just find it in your hearts to have some sympathy for these parents instead of being so absolutely vile to them.

They made a massive mistake by leaving the children alone, they know that. It doesn't mean they deserved to have their child taken.
There were many other people leaving their children alone at that resort.
This story about Charles O'Neill had nothing to do with Clarence Mitchell, in fact he didn't want anything to do with it.

I have read and re-read the police files and they don't indicate anything to me other than that Madeleine was taken.
Sadly I think that if her body was found, God forbid, and there was enough DNA to find her abductor you people wouldn't even believe that, you would probably still say Kate and Gerry were involved and that evidence was planted.


My reply


Hi Antonella

Actually Kate and Gerry have never asked for the case to be reopened, what they have requested is a review which is something completely different.
Having the case reopened would mean them having to answer all the questions again and becoming arguidos (It means that as witnesses they cannot lie and have to tell the whole truth or face jail, as arguidos they can lie and refuse to answer questions. becoming an arguido is either at the request of the person being questioned or at the behest of the police to give the person being questioned legal protection)
Kate admitted she did not search because it was dark, she was not hysterical, far from it, the only time either of them showed any emotion was once in front of the cops when Gerry threw himself on the ground as if praying to Mecca and when both of them simulated crying in the apartment bedroom as witnessed by two policeman.
Kate and Gerry can have the case reopened like a shot simply by Kate answering those 48 questions she refused to answer despite her knowing it would hinder the search by her refusing or by agreeing along with their friends to take part in a police reconstruction ( and in crime and other reconstructions they can and will use actual people who were involved and in the UK they will use a family member who looks similar to the victim or a look alike to reconstruct their last known actions)

The mockumentary which was supposed to show the events of the night of the abduction ended up with the actress playing Kates role ending up on the cutting room floor because in Gerry's own words " Her story was unbelievable" in the end it just showed them playing happy families and very little of what happened that night. with Gerry falling out with Jane over which side he was standing on when she went past him and Dave Edgar , their so called private detective saying it didn't matter!! this was a very important sighting and it was vitally important to know where they were all standing when she allegedly saw the abductor ( which by the way was shown to have been impossible given where she was standing at the time)
The police reconstruction they refused to take part in. they were obliged to by law but their friends claimed it would serve no purpose and would be traumatic therefore they wouldn't do it
How many families around the world do reconstructions each day despite the emotional pain and anguish it causes, just so that the police can have an idea of where the victim was last seen, what they were doing and knowing it may trigger someone's memory and find the person or bring the perpetrator to justice...
It was vital that all the tapas 7 took part in the reconstruction as well as Kate and Gerry just so the police could see who was where and when and the fact it may also have triggered their memories which you have to admit are all very vague and contradictory.
Now if you were with a party of people and one of their children went missing you would do everything you possibly could to remember what you saw and did that day before, during and after the event.
If your child went missing you would be out searching day in and day out, you would answer every police question no matter how intrusive or embarrassing simply because your answers might help find your child.
Why then, instead of co-operating or even searching did Kate and Gerry and chums sit around the pool drinking free wine, go jogging and dump their kids back in the creche, given that it might possibly have been a creche worker that 'abducted' their daughter? Even you must wonder why they did what they did and didn't do what anyone else would have done in the same situation.
Gerry claims that his daughter was taken by a predatory paedophile, and at the same time claims there is no evidence of Madeleine coming to any serious harm! He knows what paedophiles do to kids so why does he keep saying that? Is it because if he admits to harm he will face neglect charges resulting in harm?
You bet .
He compares the case of Madeleine to Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Duggard, saying they were found after months and years so she could still be alive.
Yes,it is an incredibly remote possibility but they were both adolescents/ teens, Not 3 yrs old.
He also carefully omits to mention that both girls were repeatedly raped and in one case forced to bear the children of her abuser.

The only people in that resort who left their kids alone that night were Kate and Gerry and the tapas 7 so that isn't many other people.
Other responsible families dropped their children off at the evening creche and collected them come bedtime.

There is absolutely no forensic evidence nor physical evidence to show that an abductor was in that apartment.
There is however forensic evidence to show that a body was in that apartment and that body fluids were also found in the apartment and car.


The initial claims that the shutters had been smashed and the door hanging open were quickly changed when it was proven the shutters were undamaged and they had to change it to the door being left unlocked.
Would you leave your kids in an unlocked apartment whilst you were halfway up the street with no clear view of the back door and none of the front or their bedroom window?
Actually would you leave a 3 yr old home alone babysitting younger siblings?
I don't think so .
And when on holiday I bet you make sure the doors and windows are locked so that your valuables are kept safe.


You say I should have sympathy for these people, why should I?
I have sympathy for Madeleine because due to the neglect of her parents who should have known better being educated, she lost her life sometime during the week of that vacation.
Statistics show that she is in all likelihood dead and had she been abducted, would have been within hours.
I feel sympathy for Sean and Amelie who are living in a household where the mom is mentally unstable, saying she wished she could press a button and they would all be together (That tells us by the way she knows Madeleine is dead simply because if she thought Madeleine was alive then by killing herself and her family they wouldn't all be together, Madeleine would be an orphan and no normal mom would wish that on their child)
I feel sympathy for Sean and Amelie forever tainted by being the children of Kate and Gerry, prime suspects in the disappearance of their eldest daughter, who used them for photo opportunities and dumped them on family whilst they travelled round the world glad-handing celebs and the Pope.
Kate and Gerry knew exactly what they were doing every night that week when they left those 3 children home alone.
Had it been a parent on a sink estate doing that they would have reported them to the police.
Remember Kate said after Madeleine allegedly asked where she was when she and Sean cried the night before, and Kate and Gerry decided to keep a closer eye on them.
That keeping a closer eye on them meant 30 min checks allegedly rather than dropping them off in the creche or making use of the free babysitter they were offered.
If that was keeping a closer eye on them, what were they doing before? oh yes they were at Chaplin's 500m away and had to be called back I believe.
If Kate and Gerry had been responsible parents , not left their kids home alone every night instead using the creche or babysitter Madeleine would be alive today.
because Kate and Gerry put their own pleasures before that of their kids, Madeleine McCann is dead.

I would like to know what you have found in the police files to indicate evidence of abduction because all the evidence we have found indicates otherwise.

I do thank you for taking the time to reply, it is more than many do
We want justice for an innocent little child who vanished sometime during the week of may 3rd 2007.

Have a great day and I do suggest you look though ALL the police files ( the translated versions can be found online , if you need an URL feel free to ask and i can provide one.

Kind regards

Hobnob ( real name concealed)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

her reply and as a subject line she said she didn't want a reply


I have looked through all the police files. I don't want to carry on arguing with you.
They have asked for the case to be reopened - I don't know why you and the rest of you online seem to think you are such experts.
Kate ws totally catatonic (sorry for the spelling ) on the night Madeleine went missing.
As for Tapas 7, the would have taken part in reconstruction if it was being done for the right reasons to find Madeleine not to try and prove Kate and Gerry's guilt - as it was obvious that was what the police wanted it for,
Why take part in a charade.
You say things like 'simulated' crying, were you there no! have you ever been there when I have met the McCanns and seen the terrible grief they have - no.
I don't know where you get the unbelievable line from, I don't remember that. I remember that Kate did not feel emotionally up to doing the documentary - hardly suprising.
You can see someone crossing across that road, I have been there - I expect you haven't.
I don't remember Jane ever changing her story - and wouldn't it have been more suspect if Gerry had said he had seen her.
There was no free babysitter, that service wasn't offered at this resort.
I don't blame the McCanns for refusing to answer police questions given that it was obvious that the police thought they were guilty and the questioning wasn't aimed at helping to find Madeleine.
There is no forensics to show there was body in the apartment, the forensics were inconclusive, the only thing that indicated that there had been a body were the dogs - one of which signalled to God knows how many bodies at the Jersey care home ---oh and none was found.
Now how do I know that, well I was there. Eddie excelled himself on that case.
Forgive me if I am wrong but I don't think Kate says the shutters were smashed she says the window and shutter were open, the shutter had been faulty and repaired.
As for using Sean and Amelie- there is a PCC order that there are not to be photographed, so again your 'facts' are wrong.
As for Gerry not talking about paedophiles doing what they do, he has on many occasions, I don't think it is something any parent wants to dwell on. I could go on.
Like I said if Madeleine's body is found and there is enough DNA to find the person who did it, you lot still won't believe it and will no doubt say it was all planted by Kate and Gerry.
For God's sake leave them alone. You are the perpetrators of a vile witch hunt.
You all think you are armchair detectives, when a lot of the 'facts' you sieze on are actually mistakes written by journalists, or by other people.
Why can't you find it in your hearts to leave the McCanns alone.
Why don't you use you powers of detective work to actually find who did this.


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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by aiyoyo on 18.12.13 13:11

@PeterMac wrote:
ONLY Gerry and Kate say that Madeleine was alive on 3rd May

Totally agree.
It's patently obvious their ELABORATE, contrived and confused story cannot stand up to scrutiny that the truth lies elsewhere.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 13:31

Antonella 'I have looked through ALL the police files' Lazzeri

"Forgive me if I am wrong but I don't think Kate says the shutters were smashed she says the window and shutter were open, the shutter had been faulty and repaired."
................................................................................................

5th May 2007 05:00hrs

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-3-goes-missing-472340
Close family friend Jon Corner, of Liverpool, told how tearful Kate sobbed down the phone early yesterday: "Someone has taken my little girl."
Jon, godparent to the McCanns' twins, said: "She was in an absolutely hysterical state - very, very distressed. She blurted out Madeleine had been abducted.
"Kate said the shutters of the room were SMASHED Madeleine was missing It looks as though someone had gone straight past the twins to get to her. Kate was incredibly upset. I've spoken to her since, and she's still completely devastated.
"She's also very upset that the police don't seem to be doing more to find Madeleine. She thinks there's too little happening."

(as opposed to her not actually lifting a finger and doing anything herself to find Madeleine)
.............................................................................................................

So presumeably AL is saying that 'close family friend, and Godfather to Madeleine, Jon Corner is LYING!

Antonella, you are wrong and i do not forgive you!

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by aiyoyo on 18.12.13 14:04

@ Hobs,

Are you saying Lazzeri Antonella that you crossed sword with is actually the author of Lazzeri in the Sun?

How strange her pieces are in total contrast to her reply to you.
It would appear either she has a spilt personality or she's from team mccanns.
No matter which of those two, she's wrong and proves herself to be a blind believer of Mccanns, as demonstrated here:

"As for not searching, Kate was absolutely in a hysterical, terrible state, I don't think she was capable of searching."

That's only Antonella's opinion, which incidentally is farthest from the truth.
For the truth is the whole world was told directly from the horse's mouth that she did search because it was dark.

You say things like 'simulated' crying, were you there no! have you ever been there when I have met the McCanns and seen the terrible grief they have - no.

That's say it ALL really - BLIND faith that is.

That begs the question who is Antonella Legionella? What's her agenda ?


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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 14:09

Another 'gem' from the Mirror piece:

Back in the UK police stood guard outside the McCanns' five-bedroom home in a quiet cul-de-sac. Neighbour Tracey Horsfield, 32, a nurse, said: "They're delightful people - a normal, caring family. They idolise their children. They'd never let them out of their sight."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Poor Tracey must have been quoted "They'd never let them out of their sight." BEFORE she found out the McCanns 'left their children out of their sight' EVERY single night of the holiday, in an unlocked apartment!

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.12.13 14:13

@aiyoyo wrote:@ Hobs,

Are you saying Lazzeri Antonella that you crossed sword with is actually the author of Lazzeri in the Sun?

How strange her pieces are in total contrast to her reply to you.
It would appear either she has a spilt personality or she's from team mccanns.
No matter which of those two, she's wrong and proves herself to be a blind believer of Mccanns, as demonstrated here:

"As for not searching, Kate was absolutely in a hysterical, terrible state, I don't think she was capable of searching."

That's only Antonella's opinion, which incidentally is farthest from the truth.
For the truth is the whole world was told directly from the horse's mouth that she did search because it was dark.

You say things like 'simulated' crying, were you there no! have you ever been there when I have met the McCanns and seen the terrible grief they have - no.

That's say it ALL really - BLIND faith that is.

That begs the question who is Antonella Legionella?  What's her agenda ?


aiyoyo wrote:
"For the truth is the whole world was told directly from the horse's mouth that she did search because it was dark."
...............................................................................................

I think you mean "For the truth is the whole world was told directly, from the horse's mouth, that she did NOT search because it was dark."

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 18.12.13 14:31

@PeterMac wrote:
The ONLY people who say she was alive on 3rd are the McCanns.

Just a small point, but this doesn't mean that she was not alive on the 3rd.  She may well have been dead, or alive, or perhaps even nearly dead.  She may have been alive but elsewhere.  She may have been confined to apartment 5A for the day for unknown reasons.  Lots of possibilities - an infinite number in fact, as we don't know what really happened on the 3rd.

So I ask myself - does this lack of knowledge *indicate* that she was dead?  The lack of knowledge does not suggest death to me any more than any of the other possibilities I listed.

I believe that she was dead by the evening because of Eddie and Keela.  No, I don't have specific proof of that.  But in this case, things are different.  Maddy is the only human being we know of to go missing from 5A.  Nobody else died in 5A prior to the week Maddy went missing.  So in this case, I believe that the detection of the dogs strongly indicates that Maddy died in 5A.  I cannot say the same for the lack of knowledge regarding her whereabouts on the 3rd, other than it raises suspicions, especially when considering the 'last photo'.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by aiyoyo on 18.12.13 15:04

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:@ Hobs,

Are you saying Lazzeri Antonella that you crossed sword with is actually the author of Lazzeri in the Sun?

How strange her pieces are in total contrast to her reply to you.
It would appear either she has a spilt personality or she's from team mccanns.
No matter which of those two, she's wrong and proves herself to be a blind believer of Mccanns, as demonstrated here:

"As for not searching, Kate was absolutely in a hysterical, terrible state, I don't think she was capable of searching."

That's only Antonella's opinion, which incidentally is farthest from the truth.
For the truth is the whole world was told directly from the horse's mouth that she did search because it was dark.

You say things like 'simulated' crying, were you there no! have you ever been there when I have met the McCanns and seen the terrible grief they have - no.

That's say it ALL really - BLIND faith that is.

That begs the question who is Antonella Legionella?  What's her agenda ?


aiyoyo wrote:
"For the truth is the whole world was told directly from the horse's mouth that she did search because it was dark."
...............................................................................................

I think you mean "For the truth is the whole world was told directly, from the horse's mouth, that she did NOT search because it was dark."

Yeap!

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by ultimaThule on 19.12.13 13:06

@bobbin wrote:

If the 'child' being carried by the 'stranger abductor' had been dead for long enough to leave cadavour odour in the apartment and garden, then the corpse being carried would have issued a detectable smell in the air where each of the Smith family members passed by, in close proximity.
The child would have lost blood, such as was found in the tile grouting and on the apartment walls, so one would be obliged to imagine a certain 'lifeless-ness'.

The head would be limp, if a 'dead' child, and unless the 'stranger abductor' were holding the head in an upright position with a firm hand, then the head would have flopped. This was NOT noticed by the Smith family.

To all intents and purposes, it looked like a child being held across the back, (as on the reminiscent airport steps photo) albeit with pale skin, and improperly dressed.


Since Gerry and all of his little-helper-visiting-tapas-friends claim that Maddie was alive and well at 9 p.m. / 9.15 p.m. (Gerry, the proud father moment) and then at 9.30 p.m. (Matthew Oldfield) then in, before or during, that time, the 'stranger abductor' would have to have killed the child, in the lounge and certainly somewhat violently, for the blood to have sprayed onto the walls and leak into the floor grouting, where she would have to have lain for long enough for cadavour odour to develop.
All of this happening, in the lounge that Gerry, if he had entered by the patio door, and Matt Oldfield had definitely claimed to have passed through, neither of them seeing any of this violent act, and in a time span that simply does not permit this sequence of events.
So we've got 9.30 p.m. witness Matt Oldfield, finding everything quiet. Kate at 10 p.m. passing through the lounge, finding Madeleine 'gone'.
The violent blood spraying event that killed the child, got mysteriously cleaned with bleach in that half hour window of opportunity, and cadavour odour set in, on items various, including cuddle cat who was on the high shelf, which didn't exist, but on the bed, beside the pillow which yielded no sign of being slept in or on, and no forensic evidence whatsoever, of Madeleine the child to be found on the bed or in the apartment itself.
It's interesting how the 'psychological' threads on this forum are highlighting the characteristics of socio/psychopath behaviour.
The main ones being the ability to 'lie' and yet being 'stupid/childish enough to think that the lies are being believed'.
< snip >

As the odours of cadaverine and putrescine are detectable by animals/insects long before the average human nose is able to discern them there is, effectively, a window of opportunity of some 24 hours to dispose of a corpse without attracting attention due to a distinctly unpleasant smell.

This one of the images which served to remind Mr Smith of the man he'd seen carrying a child on the night in question  http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44843000/jpg/_44843468_-11.jpg and, at least for some 24 hours after death, a dead child would not look significantly different to this photo of Sean being carried by Gerry particularly as the child's face is not visible.

The head of a dead child being carried in this manner would not flop backwards as it's held in place by it's position on the shoulder of the carrier,. but it's probable the carrier would require assistance from another person to 'arrange' the child's head in such a way that its face is turned towards the carrier's body so it can't be seen, and turned slightly downwards so that it doesn't move about while the carrier is walking.

With regard to Gerry's 'proud moment',. as I recall, in his first statement to the PJ he said he hadn't noticed whether Madeleine was in her bed when he made his c9pm check as he didn't go into the children's bedroom on that occasion.

There are white lies, lies, and damn lies and it appears that both of the McCanns are capable of telling all 3 whenever it suits their purpose to do so.   Unfortunately for them, they haven't mastered the art of telling porkies in an entirely convincing manner, nor are they experts at thinking on their feet or remembering what lies they have told.  

As has been observed on occasions too numerous to mention, neither Kate or Gerry McCann are anywhere near as clever as they believe themselves to be - and it shows.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by PeterMac on 19.12.13 13:29

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
The ONLY people who say she was alive on 3rd are the McCanns.
Just a small point, but this doesn't mean that she was not alive on the 3rd.  She may well have been dead, or alive, or perhaps even nearly dead.  She may have been alive but elsewhere.  She may have been confined to apartment 5A for the day for unknown reasons.  Lots of possibilities - an infinite number in fact, as we don't know what really happened on the 3rd.
You are absolutely correct.
It means nothing more than that we have no independent evidence of her being alive.
But in the context of a holiday involving four families, all with similar age children, all doing the same things, for five days in a row, it is |slightly strange" that no one else can provide hard evidence.
Absence of proof, is not proof of absence. as somebody probably once said.

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Re: More good ones on l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 19.12.13 13:54

[quote="PeterMac"]
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
You are absolutely correct.
It means nothing more than that we have no independent evidence of her being alive.
But in the context of a holiday involving four families, all with similar age children, all doing the same things, for five days in a row, it is |slightly strange" that no one else can provide hard evidence.
Absence of proof, is not proof of absence.  as somebody probably once said.

Even though I still believe that Madeleine died on 3rd May, the dearth of photographs and sightings of Madeleine on that holiday does seem very suspicious to me, and questioning it makes perfect sense.

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