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Did tannerman exist or not?

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 19:37

This might be more legible, Chillyheat:

You wrote:

"Neither Jeremy Wilkins nor Gerry McCann state they saw Jane Tanner at the same time and place she claimed to be when seeing the abductor. Jeremy Wilkins had inadvertently stumbled upon Gerry McCann tampering with the shutters to make it look like a break in had occurred, or as he later claimed a break out by the abductor as he went out of the window. Both Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins would not only have seen the abductor, they would have also heard him."

Enlarged, including two minor spelling corrections ...  winkwink

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 19:42

Ah, I see you've meanwhile corrected. OK.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 19:52

Have you seen the photo allegedly of Robert Naylor posted by Kikoratton on Twitter? I can well understand now why Tanner initially fingered Murat, and had to later backtrack. And I can see more than ever why Smithman was necessary. Murat was spot on with his colourful description of events.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by bobbin on 11.12.13 20:00

@ChillyHeat wrote: Neither Jeremy Wilkins nor Gerry McCann state they saw Jane Tanner at the same time and place she claimed to be when seeing the abductor. Jeremy Wilkins had inadvertantly stumbled upon Gerry McCann tampering with the shutters to make it look like a break in had occured, or as he later claimed a break out by the abductor as he went out of the window. Both Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins would not only have seen the abductor, they would have also heard him.


Bath time, Jane Tanner’s sighting and Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins meeting are 3 key weaknesses in the McCanns version of events.



http://hypocriteandliar.wordpress.com/tag/jeremy-wilkins/
Well done ChillyHeat, have 3 gold stars and a purple triple stamp from the headmaster.  clapping 
Article dated Sept 2008. Reference to Gerry (allegedly of course) tampering with the shutters. I'd heard of him 'fiddling' so it would seem that there was some smoke around some fire.
Oh well, it's all down to SY and the PJ now.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 20:24

@bobbin wrote:A long way back, we discussed one of the Portuguese police-ladies/ OC rep? who arrived shortly on the 'abduction ?' scene giving a testament that she could not understand how Jane Tanner could have seen the person where she claimed him to be, from the position that she claimed to be in herself.
Then recently, we have seen the map of the night creche centre, relative to the side gate of 5a where Jane was supposed to have seen egg/ bundle/ tannerman.
I have never really been able to get a clear picture here but remember thinking if Jane were in the car park where Jez Wilkins said he'd seen her hanging about earlier that evening, then maybe she might have had view of said road where tannerman was told to the police lady/OC rep to have been.
This was before the confusing spidery design of Jane's to try to pin point the road and walkways, relative to 5a.
I do think that spannerman has become a spanner in the works and was thought up hastily because other things had not gone to plan.
Philomena was all primed to blab her mouth off about the jimmied windows and didn't get told in time to keep her big **** shut.
AR has pulled off something brilliant here, I am beginning to think.
No spannerman means no Jane abductor, only the Smiths can implicate an 'abduction' but Smiths implicate Gerry, who has no alibi for that time.
It certainly does go back to zero when you take out of the equation, the McCann's only premise of abduction, as verified by Jane alibi-ing Gerry who for some IDIOTIC reason, claimed NOT to have seen Jane giving him his one and only alibi.
This has been one of the biggest c**k ups in history.
But if the Portuguese police did not believe in an abduction, it is not unreasonable to think that some at least, UK police will not believe it too.
Now that AR has cunningly announced that spannerman is almost certainly not an abductor, we revert to Smithman with Gerry being implicated, and being the last person to have seen Madeleine in the now/post spannerman expanded time frame.
A rock and a hard place comes to mind here.
I would like to think that our police can know their usual lags so well, that they would be able to think with criminal minds too.
So AR can find that spannerman is not an abductor. The McCann premise of abduction fails unless they acknowledge Smithman who implicates Gerry.
If this were a whitewash, it's going about proving the 'abduction' claim in a very perverse and risky way.

Brilliant!

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 20:29

@aiyoyo wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:No, you are talking about Tannerman, while I was referring to Crecheman a al Redwood version.

Does Crecheman exist or not?

I believe Redwood's Crecheman does exist, and he has sod all to do with Tanner's fictional Bundleman!

Sorry, I dont understand.

You're saying Crecheman is real, but Tannerman is fake, yeah?
So, how come a crecheman was found who possessed the same outfit?  

A Crecheman is always possible but wearing the same type of clothes JT described is not possible if JT fabricated the man.
You see the complication in this?










No, there you are mistaken. AR/SY have saved Tanners face by allowing for her to see one man with those clothes and that child.

Unlike Tanner herself, who thought she witnessed this man abducting that child, AR/SY are convinced (?) and are convincing us (?) that same man was not abducting a child (=Maddie McCann as we have been led to believe for 6 years now) but just taking his own child home.

So: same man, same outfit, different child; different intentions.

No complication

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 20:35

@bobbin wrote:
chilli wrote:Maybe JT saw crecheman but at different time and/or a different place. Remember it's easier to trot out a half truth than a full lie. That could account for the similarity between the two .... well that's if either or both exist.
Yes, good observation.
I am still suspicious of the Jez Wilkins' sighting of a lady, dark hair, Portuguese looking, wearing purple, who turned out to be Jane Tanner, hanging around as if on look out, by 5a at around 8 to 8.30 when he left with his child in the buggy.
Whooshed now, a report floated right at the beginning of this whole charade, that JW had seen Gerry, fiddling by the shutters.
Jane would have been in the car park. Transfer later this scene to Gerry, Jez and Jane all together.
Jane might have seen someone from that different position that became transferred to gate of 5a.
Gerry possibly did meet JW at gate of 5a but why can't he agree with JW and Jane, as to which side of the road they were.
Perhaps the abduction / removal was being managed at that time.
Cadavour odour in garden, put down in a hurry perhaps? because JW was again on the scene.
Why does Gerry again insist that JW accept the encounter and conversation is later than JW was wont to think it was.
Why did Matt Oldfield ? go and knock on JW 's door, tell him Madeleine had gone missing, but didn't ask if he had seen anything whilst he was out and about, and why did he not let him come out, when he offered, to help search when surely all hands on deck were needed.
Philomena definitely was a primed grenade, ready to fire off the 'jimmied shutters' story and indeed, jimmied they were meant to have been, IN MY OPINION OF COURSE.



The knock on the door provided an alibi for MO; and for the McCanns the reassurance that JW was in his own lodgings, not still walking his child around PdL

Of course, if JW was involved in any way, and e.g. removed little Maddie from the crime scene in the buggy, MO could well have checked on him to see if the job had been completed imo.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by chillyheat on 11.12.13 20:44

1am is when they knocked on JWs door and said Gerrys daughter has gone missing....When JW told BoD that Gerrys daughter had gone missing, Im surprised she didnt say Gerry who. It would be a shock moment to recall someone you had only met days earlier.....IMO

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by chillyheat on 11.12.13 20:48

One way or another, they all knew each other before reaching the resort imo....I would call them all Crisis Actors  nah

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 20:55

@ChillyHeat wrote:1am is when they knocked on JWs door and said Gerrys daughter has gone missing....When JW told BoD that Gerrys daughter had gone missing, Im surprised she didnt say Gerry who. It would be a shock moment to recall someone you had only met days earlier.....IMO

Not if everybody was "really into each other".

I jokingly made a reference to Balu and Berry being a couple the other day (thanks NFWTD by the way - I did know that they had "regular" partners) but at first reading of the case they seem like an inseparable item, joined at the hip. And they had drinks with the Jensen sisters. I always drink with strange women while I'm on holiday with my wife and child too! Like I said before, a whole load of strangers on holiday, all seemingly on first name terms with each other.

And boy did that tennis court take some hammer. They must have got that photo of Maddie all alone during the four nanoseconds of daylight that there wasn't a lesson or match going on.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by chillyheat on 11.12.13 21:03

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:1am is when they knocked on JWs door and said Gerrys daughter has gone missing....When JW told BoD that Gerrys daughter had gone missing, Im surprised she didnt say Gerry who. It would be a shock moment to recall someone you had only met days earlier.....IMO

Not if everybody was "really into each other".

I jokingly made a reference to Balu and Berry being a couple the other day (thanks NFWTD by the way - I did know that they had "regular" partners) but at first reading of the case they seem like an inseparable item, joined at the hip. And they had drinks with the Jensen sisters. I always drink with strange women while I'm on holiday with my wife and child too! Like I said before, a whole load of strangers on holiday, all seemingly on first name terms with each other.

And boy did that tennis court take some hammer. They must have got that photo of Maddie all alone during the four nanoseconds of daylight that there wasn't a lesson or match going on.


Almost every person at the place was a suit and boot, a Doctor, TV Producer, etc etc all moneymen......Where are the families that scrimped and scraped to save for a holiday there...
They all seemed to fly in together (not all but you understand). It seems the place was a stage for the week. A bit Sandy Hookish IMHO.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 11.12.13 21:05

@ChillyHeat wrote:


Almost every person at the place was a suit and boot, a Doctor, TV Producer, etc etc all moneymen......Where are the families that scrimped and scraped to save for a holiday there...
They all seemed to fly in together (not all but you understand). It seems the place was a stage for the week. A bit Sandy Hookish IMHO.

Quite, Chillyheat. It was quite a revelation to me to find that the likes of Philip Edmonds holiday in the same kind of places I do.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by ScallyScouser on 11.12.13 21:18

Hi All

This has probably been discussed many a time, However i was shocked when i heard it.

Here is link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfDV7imHHY

At 10:17 of video listern to what JT says "I would have said something to you because KM said you had been gone along time watching football" ?

Now i am 70/30 on Madeleine being abducted but even i had to re listen a few times to believe what i heard 

Thanks Richie

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by chillyheat on 11.12.13 21:21

Sandy Hook......
The Parker girls are called Emilie and Madeleine. The McCann girls are called Madeleine and Amelie  nah 





Sorry for the off topic......But this reminds me of Gerry McCann also

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Seek truth on 11.12.13 22:21

@ScallyScouser wrote:Hi All

This has probably been discussed many a time, However i was shocked when i heard it.

Here is link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfDV7imHHY

At 10:17 of video listern to what JT says "I would have said something to you because KM said you had been gone along time watching football" ?

Now i am 70/30 on Madeleine being abducted but even i had to re listen a few times to believe what i heard 

Thanks Richie









This is not letting me type in the right box!!

This video:
Same old words and confusion(which is good for them)
"I think,   I think....." (Tanner) 
and then Gerry says the opposite to Tanner about where he was standing.

Deliberately confusing things. There will be no way to figure it out, and they've made sure of it.
Thank you.

Madeleine will be very disappointed.







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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Seek truth on 11.12.13 22:45

I've tried but still can't type in the right quote box, not working sometimes.


Sorry
This was me:


This is not letting me type in the right box!!

This video:
Same old words and confusion(which is good for them)
"I think,   I think....." (Tanner) 
and then Gerry says the opposite to Tanner about where he was standing.

Deliberately confusing things. There will be no way to figure it out, and they've made sure of it.

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Deadlego on 12.12.13 0:35

I believe that Jane Tanner did see someone carrying their child too/from the creche and wasn't herself necessarily involved knowingly in the conspiracy, but being easily manipulated, was used by other members of the group by suggesting to her what time it must have been and that it must have been madeleine etc.

I also think that Russell and Matt went to do the check together so that Matt could then go back and say Evie had been sick to Jane and Russell would have time to get her in the bath and the sheets in the washer to make it seem plausible, knowing that hearing this Jane would go to relieve Russ and then she would be out of the way for when they did the moving and disposing as they knew that Jane couldn't be told what was going on, or if she knew the basics they didn't trust her to know the details. And then it was just luck for them that jane then brought up Tanner/Creche-Man. To me the way that Tannerman has evolved was more wishful thinking on Jane's part over time, as she was probably wrestling with the terrible fears that Kate and Gerry, and worse, possibly Russell were somehow involved. And so she just really couldn't cope with these thoughts so her mind tricked her into thinking it had to be this stranger or RM perhaps, and sub-consciously fitted the details to this scenario. Or consciously to some extent due to peer pressure.

However, if I'm wrong and JT did make up Tannerman then she did a very bad job of it. And then the police know JT is the weakest link, and with obvious guilt about leaving her children and being unnatural as a liar, it suits the police if they then say they have found Tannerman and ask her to come down to talk to them to confirm if it was indeed this man she saw. This opens fresh dialogue with her and gives them a prime example to observe how she reacts. If this has already happened (using the guise of CW to say someone has come forward)and she has broke down and told them that she made Tannerman up then the police wouldn't want to say this, so as not to tip anyone off, on CW but would want to say they have ruled out Tannerman 1) to stop people calling in about him and 2) to keep people calling in about Smithman and other possibilities and 3) to see how KM&GM react.

____________________
"'no body fluids', according to Kate McCann...Perhaps Gerry McCann, when loading the car with leaflets...accidentally cut himself on Occam's razor". Dr Martin Roberts

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by ekatae on 12.12.13 2:44

Very interesting points....!!

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by russiandoll on 12.12.13 9:24

quote Clay R    "  boy did that tennis court take some hammer"

  maybe le tennis was un petit euphemism for something else...  oh la la !    un petit " lifestyle event "  perhaps, mon cher  ?

  [ excuse the franglais]

  URBAN DICTIONARY :

 Tennis Player
Slang for a bisexual person.

Origin: Tennis players are known to have the ability to swing both ways - just like how a bisexual "swings both ways" too.
Example 1: Guy A makes a pass at Guy B. Guy B says, "Sorry dude, I don't play tennis!"

Example 2: "Man, WTF? You're a Tennis Player?"





    smilie

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 9:34

@russiandoll wrote:

 Tennis Player
Slang for a bisexual person.


Well I like to think I'm a man of the World but I did not know that.

Kind of makes me think of this


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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by russiandoll on 12.12.13 9:48

I remember watching Robbie W with my late Dad in the earlier years of this decade, when he attempted a smooth dude ratpack look and sound for a t.v. special.  He should have sacked his manager for advising him to do that gig.
     Sadly for him, he had neither the voice, class, nor style of Sinatra and decided to talk about fabulous f***ing songs,  lets do the next f****ing song folks,  and acted like the immature clown that he was.
   Perhaps marriage and fatherhood have made him grow up, and hopefully his latest attempt at swing classics is better than the show I watched with my Dad on t.v.  which was cringeworthy.


anyone for tennis ?!

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Woburn_exile on 12.12.13 10:42

However, if I'm wrong and JT did make up Tannerman then she did a very bad job of it. And then the police know JT is the weakest link, and with obvious guilt about leaving her children and being unnatural as a liar, it suits the police if they then say they have found Tannerman and ask her to come down to talk to them to confirm if it was indeed this man she saw. This opens fresh dialogue with her and gives them a prime example to observe how she reacts. If this has already happened (using the guise of CW to say someone has come forward)and she has broke down and told them that she made Tannerman up then the police wouldn't want to say this, so as not to tip anyone off, on CW but would want to say they have ruled out Tannerman 1) to stop people calling in about him and 2) to keep people calling in about Smithman and other possibilities and 3) to see how KM&GM react.

Exactly the point I wanted to make. If SY did concoct crecheman even to the point of putting his clothes and his chid's pyjamas on display then they are playing a very risky legal game. Unless they have in fact got at JT and maybe struck a deal.
On a side note, haven't the media gone quiet in the last month? No tannerman bundleman, smithman, tractorman (what a (deleted)joke he was) lawless hills of PDL, whoosh jemmied shutters, man staring at apartment, abductor, Kate telling all in court, gathering momentum, first arrests, bungling disgraced detectives, great parents missing children and the full support of the British people.

Just a few of my most miserable opinionated thoughts posted by a weirdo. spin  spin  spin  spin  youaretheman  youaretheman

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by suep on 13.12.13 14:00

In my very, very humble opinion, being very,very new to all this, Tannerman never existed and Jane Tanner never walked up that road because if she had done Jes Wilkins would definitely have seen her, as would Gerry. I think its very possible that had Jes not happened along at that very moment Gerry would have made sure those shutters looked like they'd been 'jemmied' open (probably while wearing surgical gloves) and the agreed narrative that was first of all relayed to all the relatives and media back home would have matched the scene found by the police later. All Jane had to do was simply tell her story and there would have been no witnesses to know for sure that she never walked up that road at the salient time. Unfortunately Jes threw a spanner in the works by unexpectedly passing by just as Gerry was checking if anyone was about and there was no opportunity for Gerry to let Jane know she would actually have to act out her story by walking past them (and who knows what extra complications that could have caused). Gerry had no choice but to acknowledge Jes, since he knew him, and have a brief chat with him, but by doing so he must then have been left with no time to fake the window break in scene because this was clearly not done.

This suggests to me that for some reason things had to happen at that time and it was not possible to somehow regroup and adjust the script. Gerry just had to carry on and hope that when he told the rest of the group at the table he'd bumped into Jes they'd pick up on the implications because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy so they couldn't discuss it and adjust the script. (By the time the script reached the point where Kate raises the alarm they were sufficiently aware something had gone wrong to find an excuse for Dianne to stay behind at the table, thus giving them their first opportunity to collaborate).

I'm not sure what role Matthew Oldfield was supposed to play at 9.30pm but if this hypothesis I'm purporting here were true then he would have expected to see some damage to those shutters and an open window if he hadn't already picked up on the significance of what Gerry said about bumping into Jes, then once he got to 5A he would certainly have done so. Maybe he tried unsuccessfully to lift them from outside, who knows.

Kate, of course, may still have failed to realise that Gerry hadn't been able to set the scene so when she got to 5A at 10pm and saw that the window and shutter were still intact she opened the window herself leaving her prints on it because unlike Gerry she didn't have any gloves, and attempted to lift the shutter manually from the inside again leaving prints (which were not forensically clear enough for identification). Maybe she even went outside to have a go.What's certain is that later several people who should have been forensically aware enough to know better messed around with those shutters before the police arrived thus ensuring that any prints left by Kate/Matthew were totally smudged.

I'm not sure if this next bit is significant in terms of the why or when of Madeleine's death and I don't want to speculate about that since apart from the evidence that points strongly to the fact of her death (cadaverine) there is no hard evidence of the why and when that I've come across yet. However, I wonder if anyone else has worried about the bit in Kate's book where she mentions that workmen were coming to the apartment one day to fix the washing machine and the shutters because Gerry had broken those shutters shortly after they arrived. She doesn't, as far as I remember, say exactly which window shutters Gerry broke and she dismisses it jokingly by saying its the 'Gerry touch' implying that an apparently skilled cardiologist used to doing delicate procedures is a heavy handed blunderer. It has niggled me a lot wondering what Gerry was doing interfering with shutters that they were never going to raise anyway. It also niggles me that she even bothered to mention it at all, unless it was the children's bedroom shutters he messed with and broke and Mark Warner has some documentary record of the work done to repair them.




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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by tiny on 13.12.13 14:07

@suep wrote:In my very, very humble opinion, being very,very new to all this, Tannerman never existed and Jane Tanner never walked up that road because if she had done Jes Wilkins would definitely have seen her, as would Gerry. I think its very possible that had Jes not happened along at that very moment Gerry would have made sure those shutters looked like they'd been 'jemmied' open (probably while wearing surgical gloves) and the agreed narrative that was first of all relayed to all the relatives and media back home would have matched the scene found by the police later. All Jane had to do was simply tell her story and there would have been no witnesses to know for sure that she never walked up that road at the salient time. Unfortunately Jes threw a spanner in the works by unexpectedly passing by just as Gerry was checking if anyone was about and there was no opportunity  for Gerry to let Jane know she would actually have to act out her story by walking past them (and who knows what extra complications that could have caused). Gerry had no choice but to acknowledge Jes, since he knew him, and have a brief chat with him, but by doing so he must then have been left with no time to fake the window break in scene because this was clearly not done.

This suggests to me that for some reason things had to happen at that time and it was not possible to somehow regroup and adjust the script. Gerry just had to carry on and hope that when he told the rest of the group at the table he'd bumped into Jes they'd pick up on the implications because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy so they couldn't discuss it and adjust the script. (By the time the script reached the point where Kate raises the alarm they were sufficiently aware something had gone wrong to find an excuse for Dianne to stay behind at the table, thus giving them their first opportunity to collaborate).

I'm not sure what role Matthew Oldfield was supposed to play at 9.30pm but if this hypothesis I'm purporting here were true then he would have expected to see some damage to those shutters and an open window if he hadn't already picked up on the significance of what Gerry said about bumping into Jes, then once he got to 5A he would certainly have done so. Maybe he tried unsuccessfully to lift them from outside, who knows.

Kate, of course, may still have failed to realise that Gerry hadn't been able to set the scene so when she got to 5A at 10pm and saw that the window and shutter were still intact she opened the window herself leaving her prints on it because unlike Gerry she didn't have any gloves, and attempted to lift the shutter manually from the inside again leaving prints (which were not forensically clear enough for identification). Maybe she even went outside to have a go.What's certain is that later several people who should have been forensically aware enough to know better messed around with those shutters before the police arrived thus ensuring that any prints left by Kate/Matthew were totally smudged.

I'm not sure if this next bit is significant in terms of the why or when of Madeleine's death and I don't want to speculate about that since apart from the evidence that points strongly to the fact of her death (cadaverine) there is no hard evidence of the why and when that I've come across yet.  However, I wonder if anyone else has worried about the bit in Kate's book where she mentions that workmen were coming to the apartment one day to fix the washing machine and the shutters because Gerry had broken those shutters shortly after they arrived. She doesn't, as far as I remember, say exactly which window shutters Gerry broke and she dismisses it jokingly by saying its the 'Gerry touch' implying that an apparently skilled cardiologist used to doing delicate procedures is a heavy handed blunderer. It has niggled me a lot wondering what Gerry was doing interfering with shutters that they were never going to raise anyway. It also niggles me that she even bothered to mention it at all, unless it was the children's bedroom shutters he messed with and broke and Mark Warner has some documentary record of the work done to repair them.



good post and I agree with bit I highlighted in red

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Re: Did tannerman exist or not?

Post by Guest on 13.12.13 14:14

@suep wrote:because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy

What was Dianne Webster there for? She would have been an ideal babysitting candidate. Is there any more on her background anywhere?

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