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CW was actually very clever I think

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Greycatofoxford on 29.11.13 9:39

"Months away" would in fact be a reality, the McCanns employ the best legal brains around, the evidence must be water tight. The public always have a tendency ( I do it myself) to expect dawn raids, screeching police cars etc as if it were an hour long TV programme.
I believe the cautionary use of "months, patience, etc " is to prepare the public for the reality of Police work .
I have myself been most critical of SY in recent months, however, I now am getting a far more positive feeling of stoic bloody minded resolve and that there is only one real line of investigation now.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 9:41

@aiyoyo wrote:
@DIBarlow wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Apart from Redwood saying they had months of work ahead of them.
I haven't seen the update, but did he really say this?

If so, it is tantamount to admitting that Maddie is no longer alive.

He's not expecting her to turn up in the next half-hour, day, week, or even month. Oh no, they've got months of work ahead of them......

It's as blatant a giveaway as the McCanns planning the first anniversary months in advance and delaying the publication of that awful (but very confessional) bewk.
He knows she's dead.  Statistics prove that anyway if nothing else, he must know that.

Needing a few more months could only mean they haven't got the hard evidence and still working on it, but hard evidence on what though he did not say.  In spite of the update (lack of) we're not an inch closer to the direction MET is working on.  
The PJ silence speaks more volume than MET verbose.
If there's no imperative to find a living child, they could be getting everything in place for an operation that would need to be enormous in scope and probably with one chance of success. If it was me I'd like to know in advance every question I was going to ask every single person.

Assuming the worst, how many individuals could be implicated in this? I can think of about thirty I'd like to speak to just off the top of my head.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by currio on 29.11.13 9:43

@Shrike wrote:
@Greycatofoxford wrote:I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.
Regarding the fund and what looks like a possible closure of donations either forced (by SY?) or advised I was wondering if anybody has tried to donate not through the "Donate" button within the store but by a bank transfer for example. Does anybody know somebody who has tried and failed as this could be a further indication that the "fund" has been stopped?

I was thinking of doing a transfer of a quid to check this but am in 2 minds as even the thought of giving a penny to these people is abhorrent IMO.

An interesting thought though.........
@Shrike
i don\'t know .....that's been bugging me too.....there's even an address to post it to, if your real anxious big grin ...I'm sure plenty old Granny's will have their Xmas donation in with the card... 

Surely if there is more to it, all of this would have been wiped...

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by russiandoll on 29.11.13 9:56

@Greycatofoxford wrote:I don't see it that way> It would be impossible for CW or SY to reveal their hand, give away anything vital at this stage, I never expected they would on CW. I did , however see some very clever semi overt messages, that will have a real effect on the McCanns and the Tapas gang.
Every thing that was said, not said, juxtaposed last night was extraordinarily well done, from they deliberate use of Redwood speaking from the MURDER Investigation unit, to the choice of Kate spouting a now discredited " Whoosh" story, to the word abduction now changed, to the true grieving mothers, etc.
It would be inconceivable that any police spokesperson would tell us exactly what the status is, it was never going to happen.
To those within the McCann circle, they will have watched that with a feeling of dread, uncertainty and they will be vulnerable like never before
  The only time I heard Andy R say the "a" word on the previous CW programme was when he said that on one reading of the evidence the case had the hallmarks of a pre planned abduction, recently the only word I have read or heard used by SY and the media is disappearance.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Over The Hill on 29.11.13 10:02

SY are obviously assuming she's dead because the previous Crimewatch programme was all about finding an unspecified man rather than finding Maddie. So was the update. There was no attempt to say what she might look like now, reminders of distinguishing features, where she might be etc. They know it's pointless.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by noddy100 on 29.11.13 10:08

There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by PeterMac on 29.11.13 10:09

Redwood was asked three questions.
The first two totally pointless, and the third about Tractorman.
He very pointedly refused to answer that one.

Would you want to play him at Poker ?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by PeterMac on 29.11.13 10:11

@noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up
Exactly the sense of urgency shown by the parents the first night, where one went to sleep, and the other "kept vigil".
Or shown by the rest of the Tapas 7 for that matter.
Or by any of them the next day, or week, or month, or year

They were not looking for a live child.
They were attempting to draw attention away from a dead one.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 10:13

@PeterMac wrote:
@noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up
Exactly the sense of urgency shown by the parents the first night, where one went to sleep, and the other "kept vigil".
Or shown by the rest of the Tapas 7 for that matter.
Or by any of them the next day, or week, or month, or year

They were not looking for a live child.
They were attempting to draw attention away from a dead one.
PeterMac, do you think you could proceed with a case right now, today, if it was in your hands?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by noddy100 on 29.11.13 10:20

The longer it goes on like this the more it must indicate higher level interference but K and G who are they to have so much power?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 10:26

@noddy100 wrote:The longer it goes on like this the more it must indicate higher level interference but K and G who are they to have so much power?
I think the really fascinating thing is how that power is applied. I've heard it said that people are motivated essentially by two things - fear, and greed. I don't think the greed angle could hold such an apparently large conspiracy around such a terrible event together indefinitely. I don't want to keep harking back to Stephen Birch as I know he is considered a bit of a figure of fun in these parts but he claimed in his in interview that he had received explicit advice that he would be killed if he returned to the Algarve. Frankly I feel that is the only kind of motivation that could keep so many in check for so long.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 10:30

@Greycatofoxford wrote:I was very heartened by CW and believe it was structured well. The opening shot of K with her " Whoosh curtains "now known to be arrant nonsense was put there to reinforce a point. "Abduction" was replaced with missing. Redwood ignores Tractor man, thanks the public( we know that they were inundated with 1 name) deliberately makes clear they no longer NEED any more names. He is shown live @ Incident room highlighting that they are now relentlessly closing in.
K & G are  neither present nor referred to for an input and the other content of the CW show, shows just how a grieving mother really looks and feels, and in all these other cases, murder is the motive.
Lastly, I believe it is NO coincidence that SY have allowed to be reported the suggestion of PJ and SY further merging of ideas, this sends to the appropriate suspects, the thought that SY are now very much working on PJ theories.
It was not about what WAS said last night, what it was designed to do, and will do is send a clear message to K & G that they cannot fail to pick up on.
I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.
Phoey! 
These are some very astute observations you make here. Good thinking!

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by aiyoyo on 29.11.13 10:30

@currio wrote:
@Shrike wrote:
@Greycatofoxford wrote:I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.
Regarding the fund and what looks like a possible closure of donations either forced (by SY?) or advised I was wondering if anybody has tried to donate not through the "Donate" button within the store but by a bank transfer for example. Does anybody know somebody who has tried and failed as this could be a further indication that the "fund" has been stopped?

I was thinking of doing a transfer of a quid to check this but am in 2 minds as even the thought of giving a penny to these people is abhorrent IMO.

An interesting thought though.........
@Shrike
i don\'t know .....that's been bugging me too.....there's even an address to post it to, if your real anxious big grin ...I'm sure plenty old Granny's will have their Xmas donation in with the card... 

Surely if there is more to it, all of this would have been wiped...
Oh come on, if cash were stuffed into envelopes (or christmas cards) and simply marked Mccanns@Rothley, it will get there, and you can bet your bottom dollar the Mccanns wont reject it. Ditto bank transfer.
The pertinent question is: are these donations properly recorded in the books of the Fund, as is legal requirement of the Fund Constitution and By-laws I would imagine.   Who's in charge of accounting for cash donations received at Rothley would be a valid question if the auditors were thorough in their job.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by aiyoyo on 29.11.13 10:39

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up
Exactly the sense of urgency shown by the parents the first night, where one went to sleep, and the other "kept vigil".
Or shown by the rest of the Tapas 7 for that matter.
Or by any of them the next day, or week, or month, or year

They were not looking for a live child.
They were attempting to draw attention away from a dead one.
PeterMac, do you think you could proceed with a case right now, today, if it was in your hands?
An educated guess say PM could and most certainly would (IMO) b/c there's plenty proven solid circumstance evidence, providing there's no pressure from political quarters or any other quarters to keep the lid on.

Plus DOGS never lie.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 10:41

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@noddy100 wrote:The longer it goes on like this the more it must indicate higher level interference but K and G who are they to have so much power?
I think the really fascinating thing is how that power is applied. I've heard it said that people are motivated essentially by two things - fear, and greed. I don't think the greed angle could hold such an apparently large conspiracy around such a terrible event together indefinitely. I don't want to keep harking back to Stephen Birch as I know he is considered a bit of a figure of fun in these parts but he claimed in his in interview that he had received explicit advice that he would be killed if he returned to the Algarve. Frankly I feel that is the only kind of motivation that could keep so many in check for so long.
Dr Amarals dog was found dead on his doorstep, he wrote in his book

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by sar on 29.11.13 10:44

@ultimaThule wrote:What it's coming down to is who can the McCanns trust?  Who's been got at by the police and promised goodness knows what for their co-operation?  And how will they know whether those closest to them have had overtures which haven't been reported back to Gerry the Great Controller, or whether any overtures that have been reported back have been done so in collaboration with, and at the behest of. the police ?
 
At least Rothley Towers is a luxurious bunker in which to wait it out until the inevitable early morning knock on the door.
Der Führerbunker

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Cristobell on 29.11.13 10:47

The Crimewatch update did nothing to support the abduction theory.  

We heard there were over 3,000 calls, but it was nothing statement.  No-one has been eliminated and no-one has been named a suspect, if the previous record breaking Crimewatch show achieved anything, we are still very much in the dark.  DCI Redwood's closing statement was probably the most significant, in that they are determined to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann and they ain't giving up anytime soon.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Curious_Bystander on 29.11.13 10:48

@Okeydokey wrote:So either it was an episode of the Woodentops or it was an episode of Columbo - it can't be both!

That comment won't make much sense to anyone under 40 or not from the UK!
[As Columbo]

"Just 48 more questions..." big grin

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mirage on 29.11.13 10:56

I am working on the basis that this investigation is alive or has sadly died. beware

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Cristobell on 29.11.13 10:58

@noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up
Agree Noddy.  They had the pic of 2 year old Maddie in the background and there were no appeals.  It was curious that they used a clip of Kate and Gerry from the German leg of CW tour, rather than an up to the minute reaction from them to the 'fantastic' response the programme received.  

I feel there is a rift now between SY and the McCanns.  Their official website is still promoting the picture of Tannerman and the mighty Fund can no longer beg for donations.  

I did a post to this effect the other day, but due to my left wing leanings and failure to agree with more senior members of this forum, it didn't receive a single reply! Aren't I the popular one. winkwink

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.11.13 11:02

I agree with you and with everything else you post Cristobell :)

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mirage on 29.11.13 11:04

@Curious_Bystander wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:So either it was an episode of the Woodentops or it was an episode of Columbo - it can't be both!

That comment won't make much sense to anyone under 40 or not from the UK!
[As Columbo]

"Just 48 more questions..." big grin
(As Woodentops lady voice-over)

And last of all, the biggest spotty dogs you ever did see. big grin

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by noddy100 on 29.11.13 11:16

SO do I cristobell haven't seen your post though :)

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mirage on 29.11.13 11:38

@Cristobell wrote:
@noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up
Agree Noddy.  They had the pic of 2 year old Maddie in the background and there were no appeals.  It was curious that they used a clip of Kate and Gerry from the German leg of CW tour, rather than an up to the minute reaction from them to the 'fantastic' response the programme received.  

I feel there is a rift now between SY and the McCanns.  Their official website is still promoting the picture of Tannerman and the mighty Fund can no longer beg for donations.  

I did a post to this effect the other day, but due to my left wing leanings and failure to agree with more senior members of this forum, it didn't receive a single reply! Aren't I the popular one. winkwink
I really do want to believe this is the case Cristobel. Reading through the comments here, many seem to veer between two extremes.

The problem of belief v disbelief lies in the historic handling of this case. The McCanns have received unprecedented protection from the highest level. They have even involved themselves with a political drive to curb the historic freedoms of the press in this country. I mean, that is a staggering amount of influence by anyone's estimation.

We talk glibly about press freedom, but I think of people like William Tyndale who was executed for translating the Bible into English. Then I look at the behaviour of the CR outfit against that backdrop. GA says he believes many of his books were destroyed. Pat Brown had her book removed from Amazon without consultation. We are talking about very far-reaching powers here.

Then I look at the insouciance of this couple, who can walk into a police HQ and be afforded the luxury of perusing everyone's statements before making fresh ones. Can you imagine what you or I would be told if we walked into a police interview with this level of entitlement in an investigation as a shelved arguido?

I think people have become highly cynical unfortunately. And who can blame them? As we speak, there is an admission, after months of being told the Pt and UK investigation teams have been working closely, that there are two different investigations going on that are pulling against each other because they have different foci.

The bottom line is, you cannot tell from AR's poker face last night whether he is a scared marionette, wheeled out to take the flak like unheard of govt ministers when their masters are under pressure. Or, whether he is the hero we all want to ride in and bring justice for Madeleine McCann.

I don't have any evidence either way. All I have to go on is the directional impetus of the last six and a half years. And at the moment, I don't hear the screeching of gears and engaging of cogs that indicate the ocean-going liner HMS McCann is doing a 180* turn and heading for port.

If it is doing this manoeuvre in a clandestine night-time operation then no one will be more delighted than me.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 12:03

I always read your comments with interest, Mirage.

Just a small remark this time: HMS McCann has to make a 180º turn to return to port ... winkwink 

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