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CW was actually very clever I think

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 19:47

Mickey, a lot of us are outside the UK ...

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mikey on 29.11.13 20:00

Châtelaine wrote:Mickey, a lot of us are outside the UK ...
So I begin to gather high5 

Probably (for me at least) one of the most difficult things to contemplate, is how anyone can so utterly believe in their innocence, as some seem to.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 20:31

@Mikey wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:
@Mikey wrote:Back on topic of CW:  I wonder, how many of the purported 3 to 3.5 k calls were from people telling them it was the parents?

(Just curious... if there were any such calls)
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Police-received-5-000-calls-Madeleine-McCann/story-20239609-detail/story.html 

It looks worse if they read the local......big grin
Have to admit... reading that brought a smile to my face too.  Could be more than 50%... by a fair margin.  Curiously, it also made me ponder... is there anyone outside of the UK that doesn't have at least some doubts?
Outside the UK nobody believes the Mecs

Period

But then, who inside the UK does?

Statistics anyone?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mikey on 29.11.13 20:44

@Portia wrote:
@Mikey wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:
@Mikey wrote:Back on topic of CW:  I wonder, how many of the purported 3 to 3.5 k calls were from people telling them it was the parents?

(Just curious... if there were any such calls)
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Police-received-5-000-calls-Madeleine-McCann/story-20239609-detail/story.html 

It looks worse if they read the local......big grin
Have to admit... reading that brought a smile to my face too.  Could be more than 50%... by a fair margin.  Curiously, it also made me ponder... is there anyone outside of the UK that doesn't have at least some doubts?
Outside the UK nobody believes the Mecs

Period

But then, who inside the UK does?

Statistics anyone?
Statistically, I would count myself as inside, being British (expat), however when visiting home, and the few I have spoken to, none has ever mentioned being supportive, most were reserved, a few more than very doubtful (me included).

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by mysterion on 29.11.13 20:45

Would it be libelous to conduct an opinion poll on this?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Irisheyes on 29.11.13 20:54

In my experience most people believe what the media have been feeding them here in ireland. I have noticed suspicion openly on various fora but I have yet to meet somebody who thinks they are involved. Very frustrating.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mikey on 29.11.13 21:01

@mysterion wrote:Would it be libelous to conduct an opinion poll on this?
Would it?  I don't mind voting... but it could be awkward for the site?  Trouble is of course, that we would not have a wide enough field/base upon which to give a balanced result.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by ultimaThule on 29.11.13 21:05

@mysterion wrote:Would it be libelous to conduct an opinion poll on this?
No more libellous than the yougov poll which was conducted back in September 2007: http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663733,00.html but I would caution against holding another poll now otherwise their defence may be able claim there was no prospect of a fair trial. winkwink

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mikey on 29.11.13 21:07

@Irisheyes wrote:In my experience most people believe what the media have been feeding them here in ireland. I have noticed suspicion openly on various fora but I have yet to meet somebody who thinks they are involved. Very frustrating.
Hello Irish smilie  That must be frustrating indeed.  Try to broaden your horizon, if possible...  people are out there that have the ability to question what they hear or read... we know the Irish are not all as they are purported to be winkwink

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mikey on 29.11.13 21:09

@ultimaThule wrote:
@mysterion wrote:Would it be libelous to conduct an opinion poll on this?
No more libellous than the yougov poll which was conducted back in September 2007: http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663733,00.html but I would caution against holding another poll now otherwise their defence may be able claim there was no prospect of a fair trial. winkwink
Wow, if it was only 20% then... it has to be lower now, probably much lower?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by joti26 on 29.11.13 21:31

ITV local news also commented this evening in a similar low key way as CW did last night (I did blink and nearly miss the CW 'update'), stating there were 3,000 calls but added several were from holiday makers who had information. Now this I find absolutely absurd, six years on after all the appeals, offers of rewards etc over the years, and all of a sudden these holiday makers remember something! Come off it! I also noted no mention of abduction but used the term 'what happened to missing Madeleine'. This all leaves me even more baffled than ever and my head hurts even more! wtf

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by ultimaThule on 29.11.13 21:57

@joti26 wrote:ITV local news also commented this evening in a similar low key way as CW did last night (I did blink and nearly miss the CW 'update'), stating there were 3,000 calls but added several were from holiday makers who had information. Now this I find absolutely absurd, six years on after all the appeals, offers of rewards etc over the years, and all of a sudden these holiday makers remember something! Come off it! I also noted no mention of abduction but used the term 'what happened to missing Madeleine'. This all leaves me even more baffled than ever and my head hurts even more! wtf
Given that attention was previously focused on c9.15 as being the time JT saw a man carrying a child wearing pyjamas and the Smith sighting was largely ignored by the media, I don't find it too surprising that some holidaymakers and/or others who were in Luz on the night in question may have come forward more than 6 years after the event in response to an appeal relating to a man seen carrying a child at 10pm.
 
If the route Smithman travelled was from the Ocean Club Apartments to a destination as yet unknown it would be surprising if others hadn't observed him en route, or on what may have been his return journey to the apartments in order to deflect suspicion by mingling with the crowd or to derive enjoyment from returning to the scene of the crime as some offenders tend to do.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Guest on 29.11.13 22:01

Right! Perhaps people seeing a man carrying a child at approx. 10pm OR just a man walking the other direction a bit later ... Nothing suspicious at the time, but with new revelations [BIG on t.v.] worthwhile remembering and hopefully reporting now ...

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Irisheyes on 29.11.13 22:03

A
@Mikey wrote:
@Irisheyes wrote:In my experience most people believe what the media have been feeding them here in ireland. I have noticed suspicion openly on various fora but I have yet to meet somebody who thinks they are involved. Very frustrating.
Hello Irish smilie  That must be frustrating indeed.  Try to broaden your horizon, if possible...  people are out there that have the ability to question what they hear or read... we know the Irish are not all as they are purported to be winkwink
Thanks for the advice.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by View-from-Ireland on 29.11.13 22:15

@Irisheyes wrote:A
@Mikey wrote:
@Irisheyes wrote:In my experience most people believe what the media have been feeding them here in ireland. I have noticed suspicion openly on various fora but I have yet to meet somebody who thinks they are involved. Very frustrating.
Hello Irish smilie  That must be frustrating indeed.  Try to broaden your horizon, if possible...  people are out there that have the ability to question what they hear or read... we know the Irish are not all as they are purported to be winkwink
Thanks for the advice.
I live in the Dublin area and most that I know are dead suspicious of the parents...I don't think they are that well liked here to be honest.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by ultimaThule on 29.11.13 22:29

Châtelaine wrote:Right! Perhaps people seeing a man carrying a child at approx. 10pm OR just a man walking the other direction a bit later ... Nothing suspicious at the time, but with new revelations [BIG on t.v.] worthwhile remembering and hopefully reporting now ...
If you or I had been in Luz around the time now in question, no doubt we would be scouring our memories in case we had seen something that didn't seem relevant back then but can now be viewed in a different light, Chatelaine.

Someone, or someones, may have seen the back of a man carrying a child through the streets c10pm or may, indeed, have witnessed a lone man walking quickly or even sprinting as if in hurry to get wherever he was going - in the laid back town that is Luz on and off season such speed would be worthy of note.  In addition, the probable route was overlooked by apartments occupied by those who may have glanced out of their windows at an opportune moment and failed to realise significance of what they'd seen until the recent well-publicised Crimewatch appeal.  

In cases where there is no body, it can be that the accumulation of circumstantial evidence eventually tips the scale into the probability of a successful prosecution.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by tigger on 30.11.13 6:56

@joti26 wrote:ITV local news also commented this evening in a similar low key way as CW did last night (I did blink and nearly miss the CW 'update'), stating there were 3,000 calls but added several were from holiday makers who had information. Now this I find absolutely absurd, six years on after all the appeals, offers of rewards etc over the years, and all of a sudden these holiday makers remember something! Come off it! I also noted no mention of abduction but used the term 'what happened to missing Madeleine'. This all leaves me even more baffled than ever and my head hurts even more! wtf
I feel this is more a case of 'assisted memory' .  PdL was hardly busy so early in the season, Rachel M said that the area was very quiet  and the Moyes also stress the quiet evening. So hardly any people walking the streets. 
At 10.00 pm  most would be either in a bar or at home. It was a cold night, cold enough to wear a fleece. 

As to the  Smiths, if I heard of a missing child , I'd assume she'd been taken away in a car, the man they saw they felt was not a tourist, perhaps because he did not answer?  At the time I don't think the time of abduction and description of eggman was widely known.  
When exactly did eggman go public?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by oakeso on 30.11.13 7:52

It was mentioned in the papers on 27/05/07 and the artists impression released on 25/10/07

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html


" />

I'm sure it's been mentioned a lot. If you can barely make out the floral pattern up close, how did JT notice in the yellow light in the distance?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by PeterMac on 30.11.13 8:04

PJ bottoms WHITE - not pink as JT described
Sleeves Short - non existent.

cf. Smithman
Sleeves - LONG

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Greycatofoxford on 30.11.13 8:18

I am still of the mind set that CW was extraordinarily well thought out, by a sophisticated team.
My experience has shown that little is random at this stage and we are invited to guess at sub text( which in fairness is all they can allow)
AR is shown outside MURDER Investigation ROOM..hint 1…..he was NOT live it was recorded and the recording could have been done in the studio and CW could have announced that " this was an interview recorded earlier in the studio( they did not on purpose) they wanted to give the impression of the MIT hard at work at 21.30 hours, to send a message to possible UK suspects of 24 hour intense work.
K & G were not invited to be asked their thoughts or feelings as has happened in the past, they were not once referred to.
Abduction was NEVER mentioned once, Tractor man was dismissed almost with a sneer by AR, he thanked the Public for response, a message that the clarion calls of last months CW were noted and helpful, no request was made for MORE help in identifying and one else( deliberate)
The response by AR regarding PJ was meant to show solidarity.
I have been the most critical in past months of SY and CW, however I have been part of many such TV productions here in the USA and I watched and re watched closely and still believe that the whole sub text was constructed to unsettle the Tapas guys and K & G etc and I think it  WILL and SHALL

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by tigger on 30.11.13 8:19

Thanks Oakeso,  imo that makes the Smiths more credible. 

Cognitive thinking here, i.e. what people knew at the time can be overlooked. We have so much information that it's easy to think that everybody was fully informed at the time.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Mikey on 30.11.13 9:06

@Greycatofoxford wrote:The response by AR regarding PJ was meant to show solidarity.
I have been the most critical in past months of SY and CW, however I have been part of many such TV productions here in the USA and I watched and re watched closely and still believe that the whole sub text was constructed to unsettle the Tapas guys and K & G etc and I think it  WILL and SHALL
Agreed Grey.  As I already commended, this has been an interesting thread, and the change 'appears' noticeable (insofar as I can assess from reading).  Although I was never critical as such of SY, I simply couldn't accept that they could ignore the obvious and prime suspects.

I too hope that this is the beginning of a real show of solidarity between SY and PJ.  My fingers are crossed that in these weeks and months to come, we shall see more revealed... sadly, I also feel we will need that patience because quite likely, not too much of 'real' consequence could logically be released until any potential charges are brought?

As I also mentioned, I find it hard to believe that all of the Tapas group will wish to face charges... one or more may crack?  We can but hope.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by Cristobell on 30.11.13 9:32

@Greycatofoxford wrote:I am still of the mind set that CW was extraordinarily well thought out, by a sophisticated team.
My experience has shown that little is random at this stage and we are invited to guess at sub text( which in fairness is all they can allow)
AR is shown outside MURDER Investigation ROOM..hint 1…..he was NOT live it was recorded and the recording could have been done in the studio and CW could have announced that " this was an interview recorded earlier in the studio( they did not on purpose) they wanted to give the impression of the MIT hard at work at 21.30 hours, to send a message to possible UK suspects of 24 hour intense work.
K & G were not invited to be asked their thoughts or feelings as has happened in the past, they were not once referred to.
Abduction was NEVER mentioned once, Tractor man was dismissed almost with a sneer by AR, he thanked the Public for response, a message that the clarion calls of last months CW were noted and helpful, no request was made for MORE help in identifying and one else( deliberate)
The response by AR regarding PJ was meant to show solidarity.
I have been the most critical in past months of SY and CW, however I have been part of many such TV productions here in the USA and I watched and re watched closely and still believe that the whole sub text was constructed to unsettle the Tapas guys and K & G etc and I think it  WILL and SHALL
Yes, I think you may well be right Greycat.

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by mysterion on 30.11.13 10:49

So phone calls have been investigated in PDL. Have SY investigated calls made in the UK by those at OC?

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Re: CW was actually very clever I think

Post by NickE on 30.11.13 16:04

@mysterion wrote:So phone calls have been investigated in PDL. Have SY investigated calls made in the UK by those at OC?
I am also curious about it.

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