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Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by noddy100 on 27.11.13 23:08

Châtelaine wrote:Don't speak in riddles. Tell Candyfloss to whom you've sent it.
Riddles? Yeah ok

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by noddy100 on 27.11.13 23:09

candyfloss wrote:Noddy, I had your pm saying you had sent it to a respected member.  Perhaps you could send it to me.
Yes sent via pm.
Will send to you tomorrow
A on iPad which cuts out all the time

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by aquila on 27.11.13 23:17

Châtelaine wrote:Acquilla, a couple of things: France is still France [and unfortunately, the worst organised country I know of], but the language is still [exclusively] French, the anniversaries and holidays ditto and their cuisine French too [though, don't tell them it originates from Italy ...]. The Netherlands ditto, though, in line with their history more open to foreign influences.

So I take it, your argument is mainly against the EURO. Fine. As long as you keep spending GBPs in the UK, no problem. The moment you leave the island, you have less to spend.

BTW I completely agree with you, and have been advocating this since at least 20 years, that the U.K. should leave the European Union and be the reading-mark between the Continent and the USA ...
Not at all Chatelaine (I apologise for not having the circumflex accent). I lived in Greece for quite a few years. It is the most frustrating place not just for a new settler from a foreign country but for the Greeks themselves...much like the French accept their own frustrations with their own systems.

What I object to is that someone can possibly think it a good idea to introduce any form of 'togetherness' for want of a better word that could make a difference to how we trade, how we move around Europe, how we think, how we well how we do anything really.

This is the EU who spend their time telling us we have to have straight bananas and straight cucumbers. This is the EU who tell us we have to separate our rubbish in order to meet targets. This is the EU who have NEVER ONCE had their accounts signed off by an auditor.

That's what I object to. I don't want some pseudo organisation dictating what happens to my country or me.

I want a referendum and I'd like it now. If the EU were to be missing from the planet tomorrow the world would still turn and business would continue.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by T4two on 27.11.13 23:27

My understanding of the legal status of Scotland Yard is that if the UK police/CPS are determined to investigate a crime committed in a foreign jurisdiction against a person of British nationality and to prosecute that case in the UK, then British law allows them to do so. Obviously working together with the police of the jurisdiction in which the crime allegedly took place in order to solve that crime must be of paramount importance, but it is not actually mandatory.


subsection 9 and 10 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861





 
In my opinion, in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the UK police i.e. Scotland yard, are determined to investigate the crime but, for whatever reason, they are not sufficiently determined to draw the logical conclusions from the evidence of the Portuguese investigation, which points inexorably towards the parents and their friends' complicity and nowhere else. For whatever reason, the parents and their friends seem to be 'off limits' as far as the investigatibg team from Scotland Yard are concerned. Thus we have a situation in which Scotland Yard have been seen running around like headless chickens trying to solve a crime which the Portuguese have to all intents and purposes already solved. Having got absolutely nowhere and to justify the vast amount of funding already spent, Scotland Yard have backed themselves into a corner in which they are now literally forced to approach the Portuguese authorities and request them to form a joint investigation. Unfortunately the objectives of each force seem to be diametrically opposed and unless Scotland Yard are prepared, or perhaps one should say allowed, to start operating normally, which means follow the evidence to where it must inevitably lead them, it is difficult to see what benefits there could be in such a joint working relationship .

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by noddy100 on 27.11.13 23:32

I am kind of hoping that SY are doing this in order to follow the PJ line without being criticised and advised 'from above'

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 23:32

Sorry cant remember who asked about the phone line,but I tried it several times today and it is out of service(calling from ireland with correct codes but maybe someone in uk might want to verify)

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by aquila on 27.11.13 23:41

@noddy100 wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Noddy, I had your pm saying you had sent it to a respected member.  Perhaps you could send it to me.
Yes sent via pm.
Will send to you tomorrow
A on iPad which cuts out all the time
I do hope you manage to send those emails noddy100. I know you had a problem last time (I think it was your birthday) when your car had broken down whilst you were visiting your child in University and you had to seek refuge in a hotel from the dark ages with Christmas decorations that you felt were left from the previous year. I hope your car is back on the road and your stay in the hotel is something you can now have a bit of a chuckle about.

Please do send these emails that you promised you would. Send them to Candyfloss or Admin. You're in safe hands there.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by aiyoyo on 28.11.13 1:00

@T4two wrote:My understanding of the legal status of Scotland Yard is that if the UK police/CPS are determined to investigate a crime committed in a foreign jurisdiction against a person of British nationality and to prosecute that case in the UK, then British law allows them to do so. Obviously working together with the police of the jurisdiction in which the crime allegedly took place in order to solve that crime must be of paramount importance, but it is not actually mandatory.


subsection 9 and 10 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861





 
In my opinion, in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the UK police i.e. Scotland yard, are determined to investigate the crime but, for whatever reason, they are not sufficiently determined to draw the logical conclusions from the evidence of the Portuguese investigation, which points inexorably towards the parents and their friends' complicity and nowhere else. For whatever reason, the parents and their friends seem to be 'off limits' as far as the investigatibg team from Scotland Yard are concerned. Thus we have a situation in which Scotland Yard have been seen running around like headless chickens trying to solve a crime which the Portuguese have to all intents and purposes already solved. Having got absolutely nowhere and to justify the vast amount of funding already spent, Scotland Yard have backed themselves into a corner in which they are now literally forced to approach the Portuguese authorities and request them to form a joint investigation. [b]Unfortunately the objectives of each force seem to be diametrically opposed and unless Scotland Yard are prepared, or perhaps one should say allowed, to start operating normally, which means follow the evidence to where it must inevitably lead them, it is difficult to see what benefits there could be in such a joint working relationship .
[


One would have thought that after 2-1/2 years and so many X number of visits by the MET and CPS to Portugal it was already a joint working relationship of sort.

To what extent or level MET want to take the joint investigation to would be a pertinent question?
This proposed merger seems to suggest they were not getting what they want from their counterparts despite the UK Press reporting otherwise - that it has been a joint review/investigation all along, that the Portuguese were very cooperative, and that the rog. letter requests were followed to the T.

It would appear the Portuguese Press got it right all along that the MET were doing their own things independent of the PJ review and that the only line of inquiry by the MET was that of abduction. Whereas the UK press were sycophantic where their coverage of this case is concerned, hence everything generated by the UK press should perhaps best be taken with a large pinch of salt as veracity is impossible.

Would joint investigation entail the sharing of working materials, ideas, methodologies, approaches, collective theory, working towards same goal? Or what exactly are the MET hoping to achieve that cannot be done status quo?
Would it be infinite time and money just to persuade the PJ that Maddie may be alive or sadly dead?

For the PJ to accept, one supposes the PJ would expect the MET to be united and on common goal as them.
If reports are believable that no new evidence resulted from the e-fits/crimewatch, one is left wondering what new evidence have they got that they're working on that can merit the call for merger for further investigation. If both forces works are not in tandem, each going off on its own tangent what would change in a further joint investigation unless a common fundamentals are met at the very least .

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by ultimaThule on 28.11.13 3:09

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Portia wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:When did the Find Madeleine Donate button (and the online store) disappear?

Is this significant?
I believe it is Sofie.  Had it happened 6 years ago, the forums would have been buzzing.  Basically they have stopped raising money for the Fund and I can't see them doing that willingly.  It raises the question, is the Fund under investigation? 

As so SY and PJ following different lines of enquiry, it would make sense if the PJ investigated the original crime as it is within their geographic area. It would also make sense if 'other' crimes, particularly of a financial nature were investigated in the UK where 12 of the people of interest are resident.
friends 
On a note of caution, substantive evidence would need to be produced before due cause can be found to investigate suspected crimes of a 'financial nature' in relation to a limited company.

I don't see the removal of the donation/tat selling pages of the McCanns' website of any great significance at the present time as this have may come about due to advice or pressure from the firm's directors or, indeed, it may simply be these pages are being updated and may be back bolder and more blatant than before.  

If the website goes offline or is permanently frozen on the 'home' page I may see it as cause for celebration, but until then I'm not cracking open the champers.
I've just woken from a deep sleep with the thought that, in the absence of substantive evidence, there may be a way the limited company's accounts can be investigated by the police or another agency.   This is by way of being a note to myself to think it through before posting again on this subject as I wouldn't want to be responsible for raising false hope.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by lj on 28.11.13 4:23

@stillsloppingout wrote:
@Sceneset wrote:I've just heard on Radio 4 that Scotland Yard have announced that they'd like a joint investigation with Portugal over the disappearance of Madeleine.
It was stated that they feel the current parallel investigation is resulting in a not so effective one, or words to that effect,

I wonder if the Portuguese will want to officially collaborate.

I can't see any links to this announcement anywhere else, just Radio 4 news at 2 .15pm
I bet they do . they want to see if there is anything being held back in the files , they can pass on to team McCann .
yep

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by lj on 28.11.13 4:49

@tasprin wrote:ITV

Wed 27 Nov 2013
Call for Madeleine police teams to work together

British and Portuguese police should join together as one team in their investigations into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner has said.

Currently Scotland Yard is running its own inquiry into what happened to the little girl, who vanished while holidaying with her parents in Praia da Luz in 2007, while the Portuguese authorities have their own investigation.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said: "One thing we'd like to see in the future is a joint investigation team which comes under the European community. It is a possibility legally, and we're working together at a political level, and at a police and judicial level, to see how we can construct that.

"There are two separate inquiries with a different focus - we've got one particular set of lines of inquiry and they have a different one. But it's important that we work together on what is clearly a common problem.

"It's a formal arrangement, it allows officers from each country to work in the other country, it gives them powers associated with that, and it's an efficient way of doing it.

"If you're not careful, you end up doing things on an ad-hoc basis, and for us it would be better to have that type of arrangement. So that's what we're trying to get agreement between the two governments and the two police services."

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-11-27/call-for-madeleine-police-teams-to-work-together/
Again SY tries emotional blackmail through the media. Great work boys! Crème de la crème.

Are they really that stupid?

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by lj on 28.11.13 5:31

@Tony Bennett wrote:DCI Redwood and his SY chums have been over to Portugal to talk to their PJ chums time and again.

According to my recent FOI Act request, they've spent 156 nights abroad already.

Our number 2 and 3 at the CPS, including no less than our brand spanking new DPP, Alison Saunders, also went over to Portugal to liaise with their opposite numbers there.

In terms of achieving joint working and co-operation, never mind the joint investigation they now seek, they have all got precisely...

...nowhere.

As they say in the vernacular of today's hip-hop culture...


FAIL
Make that an epic fail   Tony  winkwink 

Somehow I have the feeling that a fail is good in this case.

It's not for nothing that Andy tries to have the media do his dirty work.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Pershing36 on 28.11.13 7:12

So they want to work with what the UK press has repeatedly called a 'bungled investigation led by a sacked disgraced cop'?

I am sorry but I remain cynical to these investigations, they are probably just looking for someone to carry the poo when they wind it up achieving nothing.  The PJ has carried it so far even though I have read many times that it was the UK police who suggested to them it may not have been an abduction.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by The Rooster on 28.11.13 8:14

Redwood is a joke. eFits and bluff. I'm going to write to Dave today and ask him to reign his position through incompetency. What is it with politicians and adverse sex. If they'll curve their expenses they'll curve anything. Cover up all the way!





First few words deleted

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by jozi on 28.11.13 8:29

@Pershing36 wrote:So they want to work with what the UK press has repeatedly called a 'bungled investigation led by a sacked disgraced cop'?

I am sorry but I remain cynical to these investigations, they are probably just looking for someone to carry the poo when they wind it up achieving nothing.  The PJ has carried it so far even though I have read many times that it was the UK police who suggested to them it may not have been an abduction.
This is BS brought to us by curtsy of SY, I had so much faith when they first started the investigation but now realize SY are there to declare the Mcs innocent and find a patsy for the abduction.......nothing more !!!

Kate and Gerry are looking like dogs because Mr Amaral would not roll over and give them his cash (nothing to do with SY taking on this case ).  With Mr Amaral taking this all the way to court,they know their secrets and lies will be revealed in this Libel Trial.

The PJ were on to the Mcs very early on, until they ran back to the UK, curtsy of the British Government ! So what are SY playing at,after 2-3 yrs and Millions of tax payers money and they are still no nearer than trying to find an abductor !!!

Scotland Yard will not look good either !!!

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 28.11.13 9:22

@jozi wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:So they want to work with what the UK press has repeatedly called a 'bungled investigation led by a sacked disgraced cop'?

I am sorry but I remain cynical to these investigations, they are probably just looking for someone to carry the poo when they wind it up achieving nothing.  The PJ has carried it so far even though I have read many times that it was the UK police who suggested to them it may not have been an abduction.
This is BS brought to us by curtsy of SY, I had so much faith when they first started the investigation but now realize SY are there to declare the Mcs innocent and find a patsy for the abduction.......nothing more !!!

Kate and Gerry are looking like dogs because Mr Amaral would not roll over and give them his cash (nothing to do with SY taking on this case ).  With Mr Amaral taking this all the way to court,they know their secrets and lies will be revealed in this Libel Trial.

The PJ were on to the Mcs very early on, until they ran back to the UK, curtsy of the British Government ! So what are SY playing at,after 2-3 yrs and Millions of tax payers money and they are still no nearer than trying to find an abductor !!!

Scotland Yard will not look good either !!!
I'm generally optimistic that there is more going on behind the scenes with SY and that they genuinely have "taken everything back to zero" or whatever it was they actually said. However there is another part of me, maybe 20%, that says they have bought the stranger abduction story hook, line and sinker and are currently working their way through the big book of paedos in the hope of finding one that fits this particular slipper.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Pershing36 on 28.11.13 9:30

The thing there is not a shred of hope in anything they have done or said so far.  Unless they are playing out a Miss Marple novel type of investigation they still appear only to be going along the abduction route.  It is all they comment on, the crimewatch reconstruction was clearly the abduction scenario and they repeatedly say the parents or friends are not suspects.  

Wish there was something that could give me confidence but it is just not there.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Tangled Web on 28.11.13 9:35

@Pershing36 wrote:The thing there is not a shred of hope in anything they have done or said so far.  Unless they are playing out a Miss Marple novel type of investigation they still appear only to be going along the abduction route.  It is all they comment on, the crimewatch reconstruction was clearly the abduction scenario and they repeatedly say the parents or friends are not suspects.  

Wish there was something that could give me confidence but it is just not there.
I do think that IF they suspected the parents/friends they wouldn't tell the world. Imagine if the McCann's KNEW the police were on to them? They have two other children and could do something very silly imo.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 28.11.13 9:39

Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police in Algarve 'no help to hunt'

28th November 2013 by Tom Pettifer

A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann said: “The Policia Judiciara are not pulling their weight and are almost working against the Met"

Portuguese police hunting for Madeleine McCann’s kidnapper are not “pulling their weight,” a source close her parents said yesterday.

Fears that tension between the country’s Policia Judiciara and Scotland Yard is mounting comes as Britain’s top cop called on the two forces to unite in a joint investigation.

The Met Police’s Bernard Hogan-Howe’s plea is “a polite but public expression of frustration", Kate and Gerry McCann’s close pal believes.

The source added: “They can’t see this ever happening else it would have happened six and a half years ago!

“It seems the PJ are not pulling their weight and are almost working against the Met!

“If Mr Hogan-Howe is at pains to stress that both investigations should run jointly, and not in parallel, it shows his frustration that the present system to find Madeleine and whoever took her is not working.”

The source added: “There are two separate agendas here. The Met recently showed on Crimewatch images of a white suspect they are looking for.

“Just two or three days later the PJ say they are hunting for a black tractor driver! It is completely contradictory to what the Met are saying!

“It seems obvious to us that the PJ are back to their old game, which is not helping the search for Madeleine.”

Heart specialist Gerry and former GP wife Kate, both 45, of Rothley, Leics, declined to comment while the police inquiry is ingoing.

Their spokesperson Clarence Mitchell said: “How the investigations are run is entirely a matter for both police forces to agree themselves.”

Maddie was aged nearly four when she vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz in May 2007.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-portuguese-police-algarve-2859874







http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-portuguese-police-algarve-2859874#ixzz2lvoNmlUe

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Over The Hill on 28.11.13 9:43

candyfloss wrote:The source added: “There are two separate agendas here. The Met recently showed on Crimewatch images of a white suspect they are looking for.
Just two or three days later the PJ say they are hunting for a black tractor driver! It is completely contradictory to what the Met are saying"
Even if that were true, why would SY obviously be right and the PJ automatically be wrong?

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 28.11.13 9:46

candyfloss wrote:It seems obvious to us that the PJ are back to their old game, which is not helping the search for Madeleine.”


[b]“It seems the PJ are not pulling their weight and are almost working against the Met![/b]


Above quotes from source in Mirror. Gobsmacked!!!!

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Tangled Web on 28.11.13 9:48

candyfloss wrote:
candyfloss wrote:It seems obvious to us that the PJ are back to their old game, which is not helping the search for Madeleine.”


[b]“It seems the PJ are not pulling their weight and are almost working against the Met![/b]


Above quotes from source in Mirror.  Gobsmacked!!!!
Shame on them!

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED on 28.11.13 9:52

The second post in the thread nailed it. Scotland Yard basically want to know what the PJ have so they can brief against it and rebut it.

The English police were leaking to TM as far back as 2008.

Interesting times ahead, imo.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Lostfridge on 28.11.13 10:07

Hang on! I though the MET told us that they where meeting with their PJ friends all the time?.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by cass7 on 28.11.13 10:33

so sy want to work together with portugal - one of my 1st questions i would ask sy if i was portugal is this - we know nobody died in 5a - and can sy explain how 15 out of 19 markers to madeleine has been found tested and nobody belonging to madelines family have not been requestioned - where can it have come from this result

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