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OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by aquila on 20.11.13 15:43

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@IKNOWWHATHAPPENED wrote: Let us not forget SOCAs involvement.
Neither must we forget MI5's involvement...
Add to the list Special Branch

Providers of a free taxi ride home from the airport on their return....
Yes: Dr Kate McCann's book, pp. 258-259 re Sunday, 9 Serptember 2007:

"We touched down in the Midlands...On reaching the tarmac, Gerry gave a short statement to the waiting reporters and film crews. He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl...A Special Branch Officer drove us to Rothely..."
I think we're in need of Hobs here (or most of us understand flying).

'We touched down in the Midlands' = the plane landed.

'On reaching the tarmac' = the plane landed

'Gerry gave a short statement to the waiting reporters and film crews' = invited telvision crews and reporters were told of our flight details by our agent

'Gerry gave a short statement' = Gerry said what he was told to say

'He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl' = Gerry's a tight upper lip chappy that we can all aspire to and against all odds bites his lip, forgets his woes and jolly well gets on with things and gets the job done.

Actually whilst I'm writing this it's almost like an Enid Blyton book.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Miraflores on 21.11.13 9:26

Actually whilst I'm writing this it's almost like an Enid Blyton book.
We clearly need four children and a dog, to solve this... in between eating huge seed cakes which cook has made for them, and drinking lashings of ginger beer.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 21.11.13 9:48

@Miraflores wrote:
Actually whilst I'm writing this it's almost like an Enid Blyton book.
We clearly need four children and a dog, to solve this... in between eating huge seed cakes which cook has made for them, and drinking lashings of ginger beer.
It would take them about 2 days flat, young minds being inquisitive, open, logical and clear-sighted. And not susceptible to corruption big grin.

Oh, and an enviable tendancy to simply 'say what they see'.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by MissDaisy on 21.11.13 9:50

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@IKNOWWHATHAPPENED wrote: Let us not forget SOCAs involvement.
Neither must we forget MI5's involvement...
I asked somebody else this question the other day. Do folks think any of the "faces" out there that week was a spy? Maybe one of the big hitters? I don't mean a spy in the MI5 sense of the word, but an unofficial but well connected observer. Some people's presence there is difficult to explain in any rational way.
Yes, I do. We were discussing it on the Donegal thread last week. Clarence Mitchell was there to make sure journalists didn't get hold of the other story and essentially to control what they published. All just my humble opinion.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Angelique on 21.11.13 10:31

quote: ultimathule

"Should anyone wish to register a complaint about the cost of Op Grange or seek answers to any of Tony's unanswered questions, I would suggest writing in the first instance to Theresa May with a copy to the Chair, Home Affairs Committee. If this should result in a less than satisfactory response from the Home Office, follow through with a complaint to the Committee and badger your own MP."


Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with the above and would be the first in the queue to send of a missive complaining as I think this whole exercise is mainly to keep 'cops in jobs' and keep the 'masses of anti's' quiet. 

I think I would not be the first to do this as it would the ball rolling as it were because I think this is what TM/SY/HM. GOV. want. We are caught in a dilemma of wanting progress and an outcome and the desire of TM to be exonerated from all blame. 

They want us to complain about the expense which is producing precisely nothing so they can close their Review come Investigation once and for all.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Curious_Bystander on 21.11.13 11:34

@Miraflores wrote:
Actually whilst I'm writing this it's almost like an Enid Blyton book.
We clearly need four children and a dog, to solve this... in between eating huge seed cakes which cook has made for them, and drinking lashings of ginger beer.
A dog? But they're terribly unreliable, aren't they..? big grin

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Mirage on 21.11.13 12:10

@Curious_Bystander wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
Actually whilst I'm writing this it's almost like an Enid Blyton book.
We clearly need four children and a dog, to solve this... in between eating huge seed cakes which cook has made for them, and drinking lashings of ginger beer.
A dog? But they're terribly unreliable, aren't they..? big grin
Didn't Uncle Quentin have some top secret job?

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 21.11.13 12:45

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Famous_Five_(series)
 
For those of us for whom Enid Blyton was a goddess!




I was thinking more 'Five Find-Outers and Dog'.laughat

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Mirage on 21.11.13 12:54

Dee Coy wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Famous_Five_(series)
 
For those of us for whom Enid Blyton was a goddess!




I was thinking more 'Five Find-Outers and Dog'.laughat
All I know is Aunt Fanny kept her head well down and didn't ask any awkward questions.

Bit like Operation Deranged.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 21.11.13 13:03

Aye, in Enid's world the men and boys were the decision-makers and leaders. Sometimes with disastrous results.

Can't decide if Kate is the strong-willed exception that proves the rule, here. Is she George or meek manipulated Anne?

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Hobs on 21.11.13 14:54

"We touched down in the Midlands...On reaching the tarmac, Gerry gave a short statement to the waiting reporters and film crews. He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl...A Special Branch Officer drove us to Rothely..."

Why touched down rather than landed?

Why not say which airport?
You and i would say something along the lines of we landed at xxx airport.
Think about your last flight and say what you did out loud as if telling someone who didn't know.

I bet you will say i landed at heathrow/gatwick or whichever airport it was.

Touched down is unusual for a civilian, it implies perhaps a brif landing/visit.
I would need to look closely at how she refers to flights both departing and leaving to see if this is usual for her ornot.
If it is unusual for her i would want to know what was different about this specific flight.

As i know, this was just after they had been made arguidos and were legging it back to the UK.
This makes the flight sensitive to her, they were now suspects.

On reaching the tarmac suggests deplaning.
depending on location and aircraft you either get the extending tubes to the plane from the gate so no exposure to the outdoors or you use a staircase to get up and down and are thus exposed to the outside plus any convenient media waiting for you to fall up or fall down the steps.

As she writes, she is setting the scene, this is story telling, despite it being a known fact.

"He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl!

Here is the story telling bit.
She tells us what he is feeling, this is a character in a book.
She tells us he gave a short statement, then tells us his emotions.
order is important, statement first then the emotions.

I would expect the emotions first, telling us how he feels at that moment as he gives his statement.

His daughter is allegedly abducted yet he gives a short statement then emotes.

In such cases tears are the expected behavior of an innocent parent, fearing the worst is happening to their child, especially giving it was an alleged abduction by a padophile.
Tears would have provoked sympathy and a huge flood of money, so why didn't he bawl as she claims he felt the urge to?

During the short statement there was little to no emotion, he did a damn good job fighting his urge to bawl, his voice only cracking at the end when he said "we have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter Madeleine."

This would usually be a strongisjh reliable denial, however, i cannot say this is a strong reliable denial because it is not spoken using the process fo free editing, he is reading from a script thus making it unreliable.

"And want to consider the events of the last few days which have been so deeply disturbing"

And at the beginning of a sentence indicates missing information.
Notice also the dropped pronoun, in this case WE.
If he can't take ownership of the statement i can't say it for him.
 This is a highly sensitive sentence as  we have the inclusion of a qualifier (deeply) which when removed does not alter the intent of the sentence.

We have 3 indicators of sesnitivity in this short sentence making it highly sensitive.

What made it so sensitive?

He and kate had just been made arguidos in the disappearance of their daughter, they fled the country as fast as they could and promptly hired extradition lawyers.

This wasn't a nice polite yes we will help you  in every way, we will co-operate fully type of repatriation, this was full fledged get us the hell out of there fast panicked repatriation.

He tells us they returned home as they planned a while ago.

He doesn't tell us when this was planned only that it was planned.
Previously they had said they would not leave portugal without Madeleine and that the twins didn't start school for 3 years ( given they caim she was abducted  by a paedophile/childless couple possibly and could be found at anytime, why make plans for 3 yrs hence unless they know or suspect she won't be found before then alive or dead)

"We have to keep doing everything we can to find her"
Are there limits on what can be done to find her?
Are these limits based on guilt or knowledge of what happened to Maddie?
Is there anything they can't do to find her?
We HAVE to keep doing, what happens is they stop having to do everything to find her?

Considering they had thus far done nothing to find their daughter, no searching etc, clearly there are limits to the everything they can to find her.

If Maddie was found what would be the consequences to the parents?

The answer to the above questions tells us why there are limits on the everything they can do to find her.



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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 21.11.13 18:30

@Hobs wrote:"We touched down in the Midlands...On reaching the tarmac, Gerry gave a short statement to the waiting reporters and film crews. He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl...A Special Branch Officer drove us to Rothely..."

Why touched down rather than landed?

Why not say which airport?
You and i would say something along the lines of we landed at xxx airport.
Think about your last flight and say what you did out loud as if telling someone who didn't know.

I bet you will say i landed at heathrow/gatwick or whichever airport it was.

Touched down is unusual for a civilian, it implies perhaps a brif landing/visit.
I would need to look closely at how she refers to flights both departing and leaving to see if this is usual for her ornot.
If it is unusual for her i would want to know what was different about this specific flight.

As i know, this was just after they had been made arguidos and were legging it back to the UK.
This makes the flight sensitive to her, they were now suspects.

On reaching the tarmac suggests deplaning.
depending on location and aircraft you either get the extending tubes to the plane from the gate so no exposure to the outdoors or you use a staircase to get up and down and are thus exposed to the outside plus any convenient media waiting for you to fall up or fall down the steps.

As she writes, she is setting the scene, this is story telling, despite it being a known fact.

"He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl!

Here is the story telling bit.
She tells us what he is feeling, this is a character in a book.
She tells us he gave a short statement, then tells us his emotions.
order is important, statement first then the emotions.

I would expect the emotions first, telling us how he feels at that moment as he gives his statement.

His daughter is allegedly abducted yet he gives a short statement then emotes.

In such cases tears are the expected behavior of an innocent parent, fearing the worst is happening to their child, especially giving it was an alleged abduction by a padophile.
Tears would have provoked sympathy and a huge flood of money, so why didn't he bawl as she claims he felt the urge to?

During the short statement there was little to no emotion, he did a damn good job fighting his urge to bawl, his voice only cracking at the end when he said "we have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter Madeleine."

This would usually be a strongisjh reliable denial, however, i cannot say this is a strong reliable denial because it is not spoken using the process fo free editing, he is reading from a script thus making it unreliable.

"And want to consider the events of the last few days which have been so deeply disturbing"

And at the beginning of a sentence indicates missing information.
Notice also the dropped pronoun, in this case WE.
If he can't take ownership of the statement i can't say it for him.
 This is a highly sensitive sentence as  we have the inclusion of a qualifier (deeply) which when removed does not alter the intent of the sentence.

We have 3 indicators of sesnitivity in this short sentence making it highly sensitive.

What made it so sensitive?

He and kate had just been made arguidos in the disappearance of their daughter, they fled the country as fast as they could and promptly hired extradition lawyers.

This wasn't a nice polite yes we will help you  in every way, we will co-operate fully type of repatriation, this was full fledged get us the hell out of there fast panicked repatriation.

He tells us they returned home as they planned a while ago.

He doesn't tell us when this was planned only that it was planned.
Previously they had said they would not leave portugal without Madeleine and that the twins didn't start school for 3 years ( given they caim she was abducted  by a paedophile/childless couple possibly and could be found at anytime, why make plans for 3 yrs hence unless they know or suspect she won't be found before then alive or dead)

"We have to keep doing everything we can to find her"
Are there limits on what can be done to find her?
Are these limits based on guilt or knowledge of what happened to Maddie?
Is there anything they can't do to find her?
We HAVE to keep doing, what happens is they stop having to do everything to find her?

Considering they had thus far done nothing to find their daughter, no searching etc, clearly there are limits to the everything they can to find her.

If Maddie was found what would be the consequences to the parents?

The answer to the above questions tells us why there are limits on the everything they can do to find her.


Touch down is a phrase a pilot would use, not many people besides them. You don't touch down IN some place but AT a place

So -specific- is the word tarmac: which female doctor would know the precise denomination for (the stuff you put on) the surface where aircraft load/unload their cargo, i.e. where passengers board and exit an aircraft? A runway is not called a tarmac. 

Indeed: why not just say: after leaving the aircraft, or something similar? 

Did the writer of these sentences already know about the Smiths statements about recognizing GM from his behavior on the planes stairs, and did he/she want to gloss this over by drawing our attention to his behavior on the ground?

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 21.11.13 20:02

Indeed, a "normal" phrasing would have been: "We landed and as soon as we got off the plane, there was an army of journalists and photographers waiting for us. Gerry, bravely, went on and gave a little speech, biting his teeths and fighting his tears." Well, something like that ...

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 21.11.13 20:04

@Portia wrote:[... ]
Indeed: why not just say: after leaving the aircraft, or something similar? 

Did the writer of these sentences already know about the Smiths statements about recognizing GM from his behavior on the planes stairs, and did he/she want to gloss this over by drawing our attention to his behavior on the ground?
***
Of course, she did.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Swannie on 21.11.13 23:04

Kate: "On reaching the tarmac, Gerry gave a short statement to the waiting reporters and film crews. He was breaking, his voice tight as he fought against the persistent urge to bawl."

Have you ever heard a 'mother' use language so devoid of emotion! They are returning home without one of their children, who has 'supposedly' been abducted, and K comes out with a coarse comment that comes across as scoffing G for being upset (regardless of whether he actually was or not).  She did just the same with the 'Tiny Tears' comment. She's so cold she doesn't have any concept of how she/they should be feeling, speaking or behaving to even act the part.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 22.11.13 8:40

I don't take that comment as being critical of Gerry. To me, Kate is rubbing it in thick as to how distraught he supposedly was.
 
It's on a level with her unrealistic descriptions of how wonderful everything was prior to "someone coming in and taking a little girl".

The "tiny tears" comment was I think made by Trish Cameron.

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'tiny tears' comment

Post by worriedmum on 22.11.13 10:11

repeated here by Kate in her interview with Jon Corner August 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=N47AUYhD4Dg#t=136

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE reply (very late) to an FOI Act request about officers' trips abroad

Post by Guest on 22.11.13 11:49

I'm bringing this over from "Operation Grange remit" to a more active thread on the MET and FOI:
***
I've just seen a FOI doc on http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf

which clearly demonstrates to on the very day that the Sun published McCs bombshell-letter to Cameron, May 12, 2011, Theresa May wrote a letter to Sir Paul Stephenson requesting the Met to take up the offer of the PJ to co-operate wit them on their review [started March 2011] on the McCann case ...

She mentions that
- the HO had continued to liaise with the Portuguese authorities
- the offer of of co-operation resulted from discussion between the UK ambassador and the PJ
- the request is supported by PM Cameron and
- the full costs will be covered by a Special Grant [HO]

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