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Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Briohazard on 15.11.13 21:12

I have a question, and I've looked through all the threads as much as possible, but cannot seem to find an answer. 

Directly after the alert was made by Kate, and everyone went to 5a, who went back to their respective children? I have read DPs statement, and he says he ducked in to check on his and FP stayed with KM, and DW left the table to go supervise his two. But did any of the other women go back to their own respective rooms? MO, DP, RO were all out looking... Who checked that the other T7 children were not abducted? As a parent I'd be beside myself in that situation and whilst I'd be incredibly concerned for my friends I'd not be able to leave my children out of my sight and have a maternal need to make sure they were still in their beds.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Guest on 15.11.13 21:27

Jane T. was still with her children. Id' have to check whether RMO was with hers ... MO wasn't.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by PeterMac on 15.11.13 22:17

@Daisy wrote:
@secrets and lies wrote:Hmm, I'm not so sure Comperedna5.
. . .
GM sees himself as sharp, urbane, intelligent and it shows in his speech patterns. He was trying to pitch himself against Paxman but it was like a snail conferring with a panther.
You pretty much sum them up for me. Brilliantly worded may I say.
What shows in his, and her, speech paterns is his appallingly limited vocabulary and command standard English Grammar.

It has taken them 6 years to work out whether to say Kate and Me, or Kate and I, depending on the context.
They are getting it right most of the time now as we see when the crying incident is repeated.
It is now :"Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried".

And the Purporting a theory was just wonderful.
He so wanted to sound educated and erudite in front of Leveson, but ended up sounding like someone who wanted to sound educated and erudite.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Guest on 15.11.13 22:21

Even a foreigner, like me, wouldn't have made that mistake.
But someone like I could have ... haha
Good night 2u2 Peter.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Curioser on 15.11.13 23:48

@RIPM wrote:
This a theory open to scrutiny about what happened to Madeleine, but we will never move forward while people continue to distract with total rubbish. 

(snip)

Please engage in sensible debate if you can, but nobody can alter what has already been written, even if they would like to.  How would anyone react on finding their daughter dead, does any of us know for sure?
This is the same problem that I had with my thread:

Curioser "Theory purported by..." http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7822-theory-purported-by-curioser-title-changed-from-any-advice-etc

Nightfly's "Distractions"  http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8417-distractions

and Veritas in "The last photo - key questions." http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8451p220-the-last-photo-the-key-questions#201500

I posted this in "The last photo" but I think it holds true for many, if not most of the threads here. 

There is a very strong group here that does not want to sensibly discuss anything that doesn't fit their theories. They will resort to abuse and hyperbole at the drop of a hat.

We will lose good sensible skilled people if the incumbent group are allowed to badger people. I have experience of threads that get derailed by people bringing in their own pet theories even if you have expressly stated that there are other threads for discussing their theories. It's very difficult and takes constant work to keep the thread on track. It's even more difficult without saying, "Look. I think you're either an idiot, ignorant or malicious. Perhaps you're well intentioned. Perhaps not." 


Veritas has come back with some quite direct and confrontational rebuttals but I do think he was provoked.

If you say you only want to discuss one particular theory, other posters are unable or unwilling to allow the thread to remain on topic. They get on and write extremely long posts with lots of loooong quotes and then add irrelevancies at the end. This makes the thread hard to read, too similar to many other threads and then they get into accusations of bias, repetition, ridiculous attacks, support for each other, backslapping and closing ranks. When someone objects or is frustrated the worst offenders call on Candyfloss who only sees the final frustrated post. She gives the original poster a warning when really it is the distractioners that need to be told to go to their own threads imo. 

I tried to discuss a theory that it happened on the night of the 3rd as verified by independent witnesses and discounting anything said by the Tapas 9. I managed to keep it on topic for a while but it was quickly derailed by people saying, "I think they're paedos." or "It happened the night before and here's why." or "But when MO did his check he saw nothing." That's all fine but I started a thread to discuss it happening on the night of the third. There are other threads to discuss all these other perfectly valid theories. It's incredibly frustrating.

When you try to keep things on track they get offended and start attacking you. All I was trying to do was discuss one theory in the thread that I started. 

Still the more frantically they try to distract the closer I think we are to the truth. So RIPM and others, I think we're getting closer.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by aquila on 16.11.13 0:02

@Curioser wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
This a theory open to scrutiny about what happened to Madeleine, but we will never move forward while people continue to distract with total rubbish. 

(snip)

Please engage in sensible debate if you can, but nobody can alter what has already been written, even if they would like to.  How would anyone react on finding their daughter dead, does any of us know for sure?
This is the same problem that I had with my thread:

Curioser "Theory purported by..." http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7822-theory-purported-by-curioser-title-changed-from-any-advice-etc

Nightfly's "Distractions"  http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8417-distractions

and Veritas in "The last photo - key questions." http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8451p220-the-last-photo-the-key-questions#201500

I posted this in "The last photo" but I think it holds true for many, if not most of the threads here. 

There is a very strong group here that does not want to sensibly discuss anything that doesn't fit their theories. They will resort to abuse and hyperbole at the drop of a hat.

We will lose good sensible skilled people if the incumbent group are allowed to badger people. I have experience of threads that get derailed by people bringing in their own pet theories even if you have expressly stated that there are other threads for discussing their theories. It's very difficult and takes constant work to keep the thread on track. It's even more difficult without saying, "Look. I think you're either an idiot, ignorant or malicious. Perhaps you're well intentioned. Perhaps not." 


Veritas has come back with some quite direct and confrontational rebuttals but I do think he was provoked.

If you say you only want to discuss one particular theory, other posters are unable or unwilling to allow the thread to remain on topic. They get on and write extremely long posts with lots of loooong quotes and then add irrelevancies at the end. This makes the thread hard to read, too similar to many other threads and then they get into accusations of bias, repetition, ridiculous attacks, support for each other, backslapping and closing ranks. When someone objects or is frustrated the worst offenders call on Candyfloss who only sees the final frustrated post. She gives the original poster a warning when really it is the distractioners that need to be told to go to their own threads imo. 

I tried to discuss a theory that it happened on the night of the 3rd as verified by independent witnesses and discounting anything said by the Tapas 9. I managed to keep it on topic for a while but it was quickly derailed by people saying, "I think they're paedos." or "It happened the night before and here's why." or "But when MO did his check he saw nothing." That's all fine but I started a thread to discuss it happening on the night of the third. There are other threads to discuss all these other perfectly valid theories. It's incredibly frustrating.

When you try to keep things on track they get offended and start attacking you. All I was trying to do was discuss one theory in the thread that I started. 

Still the more frantically they try to distract the closer I think we are to the truth. So RIPM and others, I think we're getting closer.
Curioser (or should I say Curiouser as you pm'd me with that name), do you realise that you have made 120 posts in 6 months. In that time you have taken two spells of absence (each of circa two months), you have an entire topic specifically about your own theory and now you choose to attack people on the forum.

May I suggest you go over your 120 posts and see if you haven't forgotten a few things along the way. I've had a good read of your very few posts in the last couple of days and most of them are about you being a newbie, speaking of libel, speaking of what's allowed to be said, not getting a reply and then having your very own topic dedicated to only your theory and now most vociferously attacking the forum with your 'struggle' to keep threads on topic.

My flabber is well and truly ghasted.

What a shame for Madeleine eh.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Curioser on 16.11.13 0:09

@RIPM wrote:Thesis part one.  To be read with the following provisos.


All times are uncertain but fall within the known parameters
It is possible the McCanns and other Tapas group either sedated their children, or knew it was happening
The McCanns and Tapas 7 lie whenever the opportunity presents itself, but most lies have some basis in truth


The McCanns leave 5a at about 20.20 with M and the twins sedated.  The sedatives have been problematic all week with bad reactions leading to sickness amongst the children in the group.  Shortly after Macs leave 5a with the sedative only partially effective, a groggy M gets up, climbs onto the sofa to look for her parents, falls, cracks her head or breaks her neck and dies.  There is very little blood.

At around 21.00 Gerry does a perfunctory check there is 'no proud father 'moment ,he does not look in on M; turns round and goes back to the Tapas.  He does not see M behind the sofa.  On the way he meets JW, has a chat and returns to the Tapas.

Everything OK.  Nothing is wrong, eating, drinking, chatting as normal.

At around 21.20 MO goes into 5a makes a very perfunctory check ,doesn't see M behind the sofa, does not look in on M and goes back to the Tapas.


Everything Ok.  Nothing is wrong, eating, drinking, chatter as normal.

Around 21.40 K goes into 5a, she too is not going to look in at M but the door slamming makes her look.  Genuine fear, genuine panic, M is not in the bed.
  In a blind genuine panic she rushes out of 5a and back to the Tapas bar to raise the alarm.  Genuine reactions of alarm from the group.  All except JT and DW run to 5a.  M is found dead behind the sofa, all present have either sedated, or know the children are sedated.

They are Doctors, they know an autopsy will show illegal sedation and misuse of drugs in M and the other children, their prestige ,standing in society, careers, licence to practice now hang by a thread.  Prison in a foreign country and who knows what may follow.

They are panicked ,they cannot delay people may have seen the alarm raised in the Tapas.
After several minutes of arguments abduction is suggested as the best way to explain M's disappearance, an autopsy cannot be allowed.

  They are Doctors, crisis decisions and swift actions are normal, G's mantra "do not look back, what's done is done, focus and move forward" Doctors mantra, "you cannot bring back the dead but you can try to save the living".  Doctors covering up for each other is endemic behaviour. Gerry makes a decision, they need more time, so Gerry picks up M, and runs through the night towards the beach to use as a temporary hiding place.

On the way at about 22.00 he passes the Smith family.

  Meanwhile back in 5a the clean-up and trashing of 5a is underway.  Each person has their own idea of how to stage an abduction and what to do.  Do we damage the shutters or ring the BBC?  Time is getting short, the Police may already be on their way.  They telephone the relations to plant the abduction seed, they knew searching was a waste of time.  A timeline and strategy is quickly written on the back of a book, and the circus begins.

Later that night .....the De Profundis.
So back to the matter at hand. It's interesting that many people are converging on this theory or something very similar. I reckon in general, it's got legs.

There are a couple of niggles for me. The timing is out if you believe the staff and two other guests at the Tapas restaurant. They are independent witness with nothing to gain by lying so I tend to believe them although there's no guarantee they're accurate.

9.15 – 9.30        Steven Carpenter’s wife hears someone calling Madeleine
9.20                  Executive Chef heard clamour – was told a child was missing 


I don't believe that the door slammed or that MO did a check but that is just my opinion.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Curioser on 16.11.13 0:10

Oh sorry Aquila. Obviously I wasn't talking about you!

Oops. I bit lol. But only briefly. 

Back to the matter at hand. RIPM's theory no?

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by aquila on 16.11.13 0:15

@Curioser wrote:Oh sorry Aquila. Obviously I wasn't talking about you!
No, Curioser you were talking about yourself and your theory and you were demeaning people on this forum, you seem to be rather good at that. Not bad for a few posts.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by chillyheat on 16.11.13 0:27

@Curioser wrote:Oh sorry Aquila. Obviously I wasn't talking about you!

Oops. I bit lol. But only briefly. 

Back to the matter at hand. RIPM's theory no?
I honestly truly believe some members are using multiple computers to boost their own ego.......puke 
Your reply (edit) is so smug its shocking

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by aquila on 16.11.13 0:35

@ChillyHeat wrote:
@Curioser wrote:Oh sorry Aquila. Obviously I wasn't talking about you!

Oops. I bit lol. But only briefly. 

Back to the matter at hand. RIPM's theory no?
I honestly truly believe some members are using multiple computers to boost their own ego.......puke 
Your reply (edit) is so smug its shocking
Well quite.

Take a look at the posts of Curioser - it won't take long - there is an almighty agenda in them for either self promotion or pro Mcpropoganda.

It's sickening to me. Take a look at the posts and see for yourself.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by ultimaThule on 16.11.13 3:39

@Curioser wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
This a theory open to scrutiny about what happened to Madeleine, but we will never move forward while people continue to distract with total rubbish. 

(snip)

Please engage in sensible debate if you can, but nobody can alter what has already been written, even if they would like to.  How would anyone react on finding their daughter dead, does any of us know for sure?
This is the same problem that I had with my thread:

Curioser "Theory purported by..." http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7822-theory-purported-by-curioser-title-changed-from-any-advice-etc

Nightfly's "Distractions"  http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8417-distractions

and Veritas in "The last photo - key questions." http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8451p220-the-last-photo-the-key-questions#201500

I posted this in "The last photo" but I think it holds true for many, if not most of the threads here. 

There is a very strong group here that does not want to sensibly discuss anything that doesn't fit their theories. They will resort to abuse and hyperbole at the drop of a hat.

We will lose good sensible skilled people if the incumbent group are allowed to badger people. I have experience of threads that get derailed by people bringing in their own pet theories even if you have expressly stated that there are other threads for discussing their theories. It's very difficult and takes constant work to keep the thread on track. It's even more difficult without saying, "Look. I think you're either an idiot, ignorant or malicious. Perhaps you're well intentioned. Perhaps not." 


Veritas has come back with some quite direct and confrontational rebuttals but I do think he was provoked.

If you say you only want to discuss one particular theory, other posters are unable or unwilling to allow the thread to remain on topic. They get on and write extremely long posts with lots of loooong quotes and then add irrelevancies at the end. This makes the thread hard to read, too similar to many other threads and then they get into accusations of bias, repetition, ridiculous attacks, support for each other, backslapping and closing ranks. When someone objects or is frustrated the worst offenders call on Candyfloss who only sees the final frustrated post. She gives the original poster a warning when really it is the distractioners that need to be told to go to their own threads imo. 

I tried to discuss a theory that it happened on the night of the 3rd as verified by independent witnesses and discounting anything said by the Tapas 9. I managed to keep it on topic for a while but it was quickly derailed by people saying, "I think they're paedos." or "It happened the night before and here's why." or "But when MO did his check he saw nothing." That's all fine but I started a thread to discuss it happening on the night of the third. There are other threads to discuss all these other perfectly valid theories. It's incredibly frustrating.

When you try to keep things on track they get offended and start attacking you. All I was trying to do was discuss one theory in the thread that I started. 

Still the more frantically they try to distract the closer I think we are to the truth. So RIPM and others, I think we're getting closer.
As can be seen from 'your' thread, Curioser, you played the coy virgin over a number of days before positing a theory which owes to more to Mills and Boon than any study of the PJ's files or observation of the behaviour of the McCanns, even attributing dialogue to them which can only have come from what appears to be a vivid, but decidedly limited, imagination.

When your theory was challenged you reacted as if you personally were under attack and, having made it clear you sought only to revel in accolades and approbation from those who agreed with you, after engaging in self-promotion on other threads you chose to leave 'your' thread when you found yourself unable to support your erroneous assumptions.

I don't have a problem with this, but I do have a problem with those who have so recently taken to promoting a predictably sanitised account of what may have taken place in Apartment 5A on the evening/night of 3 May 2007 as it is apparent the McCanns, either directly or via one of their paid 'internet monitors', keep close tabs on this forum. 

It occurs to me that if brought to account, and presupposing they are more intelligent than they have hitherto led me, and many others, to believe, G&K may elect to plead to a lesser charge in order to secure a reduced sentence.  If they should opt for this course of action, they would be best advised to present a persuasive account of minor, rather than major, misdemeanours which led them down a primrose path and caused them commit a heinous crime almost as if by accident or osmosis.  violin  

Should they choose to go to trial, there's the question of mitigation on a guilty verdict when a palatable version of events tailored to assuage the righteous anger of an outraged public will be required, not only by the McCanns but by all who have aided and abetted them.

Under the circumstances, I prefer to give consideration to theories which take full account of the depraved indifference displayed by the McCanns to the fate of their 3 year old firstborn daughter from day 1, and which give full weight to what was clearly a series of premeditated acts on the part of many designed to pervert the course of justice, while exploiting the generosity of trusting souls who continue to dip deep into their pockets to line those of a ruthless couple who have left no stone unturned in the lengths they've gone to, and the measures they've taken against those who've had the temerity to gainsay them, in order to hide their crimes over the past 6.5 years and counting.

In short, l suggest we make a concerted effort to put forward the worst possible scenarios and let the McCanns mitigate their way out of that, because I sure as hell don't feel inclined to do them any favours by providing more phrases they can steal, and more ideas they can purloin, with a view to presenting themselves as something they are not.  angry

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by secrets and lies on 16.11.13 11:30

Beautifully articulate UltimaThule. My sentiments exactly.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Searcher on 16.11.13 11:47

UltimaThule - so interesting to read your post, and so well written.  It is inevitable that this site (and probably this site in particular as it is a major presence and very well run) will be used by those who have an agenda.

This is out-weighed by the majority who are asking questions, genuinely analysing the material, and can see below the surface to another story.  As long as we are aware of this, probably no real harm can come to the search for truth here.  But we do indeed need to be aware of it.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Cristobell on 16.11.13 12:54

comperedna5 wrote:Christobel, I am out of date, maybe. I am old, but old. I come from the era of grammar schools when working class medics were on the whole IQ-style clever and very few of them got into medical school. I do not consider that kind of cleverness to be the most important quality for a 'doctor' either. Medics were supposedly pre-sorted for something then called 'a vocation', and doubtless upper middle class applicants from public schools were taught how to show (or fake) that! Drive and ambition probably scores now.

I did not know about where that unlovely pair went to medical school, or how they may have got in. They present themselves as people amazingly limited in most of the ways that count as human beings, and also as a culture free zone. Nowadays you can probably have the intellect and grasp of ideas of a newt, make that a tadpole, and get a degree in something if you are pushy enough.

Probably irrelevant to this thread but a kind of parallel:
[For instance, I am sick of 'nutritionists' who believe in demon foods and magic foods, who believe in 'perfectly balanced' individual products and seem to have no appreciation of what constitutes a balanced diet, or how to work one out for yourself say over a week. All eleven to thirteen year olds were taught about that some decades ago. Some degree-laden 'nutritionists' pontificate on what they don't know about, not even knowing the difference between white fish oandoily fish or why it could matter.]
I was one of those taught about nutrition decades ago Comperedna - it was all part of Domestic Science at my Catholic Girls School.  We were taught how to cook nutritious meals for the family, and easily digestible food for the unwell.  It was quaint and old fashioned and a little bit sexist, we were also taught how to iron mens shirts!  As for vitamins, minerals etc, q written paper formed part of the exam. As an old feminist I should moan about those old teaching methods, but happy to say the knowledge stayed with me, and I think it is so sad that modern food arrives with a ping - to be eaten alone in front of a TV screen or a computer. Kids are not learning social skills and the health of the nation is going to pot!

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Cristobell on 16.11.13 13:05

Well said Ultima Thule!

At the heart of this case is a heinous crime, and one which has been glossed over, even on here.  The reality is the McCanns are lying about the fate of a small, vulnerable child and that should concern us all.  Are you listening Lorraine, that 'nice' couple you regularly invite onto your sofa are not telling the truth about what happened to their daughter,

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Curioser on 16.11.13 13:34

@ultimaThule wrote:
As can be seen from 'your' thread, Curioser, you played the coy virgin over a number of days before positing a theory which owes to more to Mills and Boon than any study of the PJ's files or observation of the behaviour of the McCanns, even attributing dialogue to them which can only have come from what appears to be a vivid, but decidedly limited, imagination.

When your theory was challenged you reacted as if you personally were under attack and, having made it clear you sought only to revel in accolades and approbation from those who agreed with you, after engaging in self-promotion on other threads you chose to leave 'your' thread when you found yourself unable to support your erroneous assumptions.

I don't have a problem with this, but I do have a problem with those who have so recently taken to promoting a predictably sanitised account of what may have taken place in Apartment 5A on the evening/night of 3 May 2007 as it is apparent the McCanns, either directly or via one of their paid 'internet monitors', keep close tabs on this forum. 

It occurs to me that if brought to account, and presupposing they are more intelligent than they have hitherto led me, and many others, to believe, G&K may elect to plead to a lesser charge in order to secure a reduced sentence.  If they should opt for this course of action, they would be best advised to present a persuasive account of minor, rather than major, misdemeanours which led them down a primrose path and caused them commit a heinous crime almost as if by accident or osmosis.  violin  

Should they choose to go to trial, there's the question of mitigation on a guilty verdict when a palatable version of events tailored to assuage the righteous anger of an outraged public will be required, not only by the McCanns but by all who have aided and abetted them.

Under the circumstances, I prefer to give consideration to theories which take full account of the depraved indifference displayed by the McCanns to the fate of their 3 year old firstborn daughter from day 1, and which give full weight to what was clearly a series of premeditated acts on the part of many designed to pervert the course of justice, while exploiting the generosity of trusting souls who continue to dip deep into their pockets to line those of a ruthless couple who have left no stone unturned in the lengths they've gone to, and the measures they've taken against those who've had the temerity to gainsay them, in order to hide their crimes over the past 6.5 years and counting.

In short, l suggest we make a concerted effort to put forward the worst possible scenarios and let the McCanns mitigate their way out of that, because I sure as hell don't feel inclined to do them any favours by providing more phrases they can steal, and more ideas they can purloin, with a view to presenting themselves as something they are not.  angry
See, that's the issue. I have never said that your theories are bunk. You have every right to expound and explore your theories where appropriate. What I was saying was that there are other threads for that. 

I was a coy McCann virgin. I don't believe I took your challenges as a personal attack. Not at all. They were just off topic. There are many other threads to discuss your ideas. 

I have been accused by some of being a troll, having an agenda, being a shameless self-promoter, spelling my name incorrectly (?), putting an agenda for the McCanns (??), having two accounts and other horrible things. 

I've read the files and I've put together just one theory out of many, standing on the shoulders of giants. I wanted to test it among people with lots of knowledge of the case. I've done that and a few good people have picked up some errors and omissions. That was helpful and gave me more to think about. All good. 

I gave up on the thread when it became hopelessly derailed. Even then I pointed it out to a couple of reasonable sounding people to get their opinion. The people who genuinely read it and picked up problems were great. I appreciate their time and help. 

The people who merely tried to turn the thread in their own direction, I ignored or tried to discourage without being rude. It bemuses me that I am accused by some of self-promotion when the same people seem unable to let a thread go along without their perspective at the forefront. To me that is very egocentric behaviour. Surely I am allowed to disagree and have a discussion without being derided. It is sort of a free country still.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by diatribe on 16.11.13 14:48



As a newcomer to this forum, I will kick off by dispelling any notions that I am some kind of McCann plant. Au contraire, I am merely a person who has recently become interested in this case, although as previously stated on another thread, my belief is that the only remaining mystery is not what happened to Madeleine, but why the British ruling elite and their propaganda wing in the meeja are going to such extreme lengths to cover up the culpability of the McCanns in the death of their daughter. That's the $64,000 question.

I would also state at this stage that I'm not influenced by anything relating to the meeja, ie. I don't read newspapers, not even the broadsheets and I never watch news bulletins, in fact I don't even own a TV. As far as I am concerned the meeja are military machines utilised by governments to propagate misinformation to the subservient proletariat. Any information I have gleaned vis a vis the McCanns has been derived from reading the PJ files, various internet fora and watching Youtube video clips. There may even be a school of thought who would subscribe to my being an impartial observer, a bit like a person watching a game of football with no allegiance to either team. Having bored you with my introduction, I will state one more fact, I do possess a modicum of legal experience and no, I'm not an ex old bill or lawyer. Oh, and I also possess a macabre sense of humour which others may at times find offensive, but hey, in the immortal words of one notorious American murderess, subsequently acquitted, 'No-one is perfect.'

I don't subscribe to any speculative Jimmy Savile, paedophile type conspiracist theories, I am of the opinion that the McCanns are most definitely not the sharpest tools in the box and the reason they have escaped justice for so long has more to do with luck than judgement, combined with some good backroom choreography. Readers may remember the first TV channel to be contacted was GMTV, where perhaps coincidentally, Kate McCann's life long friend, Esther Mcvey had been a presenter. She then became one of the original directors of the MBSF (McCann Benevolent Slush Fund ) prior to becoming an MP in the capacity of Minister for Disabled people, a euphemism if ever I heard one. It’s also perhaps of some relevance to note that this fund was set up and running within days of Madeleine’s disappearance with Kate's uncle, Brian Kennedy, stating on the 17th inst. May 2007 ‘’the money can be used, err...for all sorts of reasons but probably mainly for legal expenditure.’’

I also don’t subscribe to Inspector Deadwood’s new time line theory and the only reason this so called operation ‘Grunge’ makes any kind of sense is if its specifically set up to entrap the McCanns into a false sense of security which will ultimately lead to their arrest. It’s interesting to note  that subsequent to this renewed  Scotland Yard investigation, the PJ followed suit. Without the PJ reopening their investigation, the Scotland Yard enquiry would be as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, if for no other reason, they do not and never did have jurisdiction over this crime. Apart from making their own enquiries, the only action the British police could ever really participate in was to arrest the McCanns in the event of an extradition request  from the PJ, or to sit in on interviews conducted by the aforementioned.

It’s my contention that any serious investigation should be concentrated not on the time line of when our Gerry states he last saw Madeleine alive at 9.05 pm and when Kate hysterically announces her ‘abduction' at 10 pm, but between the hrs. of circa 6.30 pm when Madeleine was last independently seen alive and the time the McCanns first appeared at the Tapas bar which was any time between 8.45 and 9 pm. I also doubt whether any of their cronies had any direct involvement with the death or disposal of Madeleine’s body, although they are undoubtably lying about the sequence of events to cover their own asses for different reasons. I don’t believe even the McCanns would have the confidence or temerity to continue this charade if they thought their fate lay in the hands of others. No greater love hath man than to lay down the life of his friends to save himself. 

The two that are involved to a greater extent are Tanner and Oldfield where in the case of the former, she lied about witnessing an apparition carrying a child away from the McCann’s apartment to substantiate the abduction claim and the latter, who in my opinion never entered the McCann’s apartment at circa 9.30pm. When making this statement he knew he was on safe grounds by confirming he had witnessed the twins because they obviously had been present at that time, but he was non committal and unable to confirm he had actually seen Madeleine for obvious subsequent reasons. Let’s have it right, why would a person who was checking on the safety and presence of 3 children only bother to check two of them when they were supposedly laying alongside each other in the same room. One could perhaps understand this philosophy if two were in a bedsit in Notting Hill Gate whilst the other lay reposing in a Muswell Hill nursery, but these children were within touching distance of each other. Methinks Dr. Oldfield speak with forked tongue and his testimony doesn’t even get off the ground, let alone fly.

If one is to put one’s faith in the cadaver dogs, one would have to assume that if they were correct in their smell of death in the apartment, they were also correct in scenting death in the car hired 3 wks.after the disappearance of Madeleine. Unless this scent was caused by clothing etc. I find it difficult to believe that they could possibly be correct in both instances. I simply don’t think the McCanns would have had the bottle to dig up and remove their daughter’s body in order to rebury it, particularly in the vein of them being under the constant glare of the world’s meeja. I think it far more likely that Madeleine’s body was disposed of prior to the McCann's  departure for the Tapas bar and that efforts to recover her body should be concentrated on a 2 mile circumference of the apartment. The McCanns may not have been familiar with the local terrain, but Kate McCann would have familiarised herself to some degree with her daily jogging routine.

In conclusiom, what is required to solve the mystery of what happened to Maddie is not an elite Scotland Yard squad of aging detectives due for retirement  searching for Sydney Cooke lookalikes with copies of the ‘Weekly Pervert’ protruding from their Y fronts, but a new team composed  entirely of the following:-


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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Upsy Daisy on 16.11.13 15:40

Ultimatnule- a spectacular post of epic proportions! Hat tipped to you!

Briohazard - I recall also commenting on a post wrt the strange reactions of the 'other mothers' not going directly to grab their babies tight. Not normal. That and KM running out leaving the twins behind, to cry ' abduction'!

Chatelaine - on a lighter note, I grew up watching the likes of penelope pitstop, dastardly etc. in fact myself and two little ones went to bed too early the other night, woke up at 4.30am and Dick Dastardly et al were on one of the cartoon channels- brought back a few memories AND reminded me of my age too ;0))

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Upsy Daisy on 16.11.13 15:43

P s Sofi Leal remarked that she did just that - held her daughter after hearing the news (like most caring Mummies would)!

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Cristobell on 16.11.13 16:54

Wonderful read Diatribe, welcome smilie  

I agree with much of what you say Diatribe, but I think the tapas group are up to the necks in it - although Jane Tanner may now be cooperating with the police - it must have been quite a shock for her apparition to become manifest, and I wonder if the missing chap was produced for her to identify, that would have been an interesting encounter.

Most of group stayed in the apartment with the McCanns in the aftermath - they weren't out searching - and in addition they sat at the table in the apartment and drew up a timeline on a torn page from Maddie's book.  I find this incredible behaviour while a young child is missing and the only explanation I can find is that those present knew the child was not in danger.  I would also like to know which parents put their children in the creche in the care of strangers on 4th May, knowing that a child abductor was on the loose.  

I am curious too about David Payne.  He was keen to get rid of Yvonne Martin (?), the social worker who turned up to offer her assistance.  He stepped in and led Kate away from her.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by diatribe on 16.11.13 17:45

@Cristobell wrote: 

although Jane Tanner may now be cooperating with the police - it must have been quite a shock for her apparition to become manifest, and I wonder if the missing chap was produced for her to identify, that would have been an interesting encounter.

Thanks for the welcome, I did actually address the alleged new witness on the 'Whitewash or Justice' thread. With the voluminous amount of threads on this site, it can be a tad difficult to initially familiarise oneself with the lay out. I think this may have been my first posting where I suffered the indignity of a couple of deletions. :)

''.Some might wonder what the (deleted) this alleged new witness, whether he be genuine or a figment of Inspector Deadwood's imagination has got to do with a gov. and meeja cover up. Well, if one thinks about it, quite a lot actually. The likelihood of an abduction having taken place within the 10 min. time limit available was becoming increasingly untenable, some might even conclude that it was physically impossible, if not bordering on the farcical. Hence the need for Gerry and his puppeteers to retrospectively come up with the notion that maybe there was an abductor already lurking in the apartment at 9.05 pm when he was so lovingly gazing over his daughter whilst thinking how lucky he was to have such a beautiful corpse.

So, whilst languishing in his plastic bath adorned with synbrass taps, our Inspector Deadwood has a eureka moment and decides that the time line needs to be extended. Alas, there's a problem in the form of Jane Tanner, surely to extend the time line would expose this public spirited citizen to be a liar and how would that look to his expectant audience in the tabloid press, after all, the name of the game isn't just to whitewash the McCanns, but the entire medical profession. Not to be thwarted, our intrepid inspector has yet another inspirational rush of blood to his already over taxed brain and decides to introduce a further player to the game. So, he creates another simulated figure resembling the one already conjoured up by Jane Tanner and calls him a british holiday maker who just happened to be passing the same spot at exactly the same time as our Jane purports to have seen the original apparition. Why, we'll even have him holding out his hands in the same unlikely mode as the Efit and attire his make believe brat in a similarly patterned pair of pyjamas to those which Jane described.

Bloody marvellous, this could even lead to a knighthood, in a single sheer stroke of genius our intrepid inspector has given the timeline a tad more plausibility whilst simultaneously exonerating our Jane from being accused of having a capricious imagination at best to being a vindictive liar attempting to fit up that dastardly Mr. Murat at worst. Well done sir, well done indeed, cometh the hr, cometh------, Rupert Murdoch will undoubtably award you the keys to Wapping for this public spirited act. We'll teach those (deleted) portugese kaffirs to beat us at football, eh.''


Jane Tanner suffers further delusion of abductor in Leicestershire village.



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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by russiandoll on 16.11.13 17:57

Welcome Diatribe and what a great post. One thing for me....I am not convinced, in fact very unconvinced by any 6.30 pm independent sighting. David Payne along with Kate did not mention this at the earliest opportunity and recalled it very differently, less than a minute against 30 minutes iirc.
 He came into the apartment, he remained at the threshold.
 Conveniently described later as popping his head inside the patio doors.
 Too many changes in routine on 3rd for me to accept 3rd was the date. I believe that 2nd was D-day and 3rd the day for acting out the drama.

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by diatribe on 16.11.13 18:10

@russiandoll wrote:Welcome Diatribe and what a great post. One thing for me....I am not convinced, in fact very unconvinced by any 6.30 pm independent sighting. David Payne along with Kate did not
Mea culpa, I was actually referring to circa 5.30 when Madeleine would have been signed out of the Day Centre by a member of staff. Where's the emoticon for embarrassed:)

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Re: Why the McCanns and the Tapas 7 were Relaxed at Dinner on 3rd May

Post by Guest on 16.11.13 20:27

Try this one ... blushing1

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