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MURAT revisited

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Guest on 23.02.14 20:42

@Tony Bennett wrote:
The story had changed dramatically, within a week, from ‘Eight people saw Robert Murat that night’ to ‘They all probably mistook him for Dr David Payne’. At least the Daily Mail told its readers at the end of the article how utterly absurd it was to suggest that she might have mistaken Robert Murat for her own husband.

SNIPPED [/size]

I tell you who definitely didn't see Murat that night - Martin Smith.

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Goodness gracious me

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.02.14 21:01

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
I tell you who definitely didn't see Murat that night - Martin Smith.
Yes.

In fact Murat was busy speaking to his girlfriend Michaela and his dodgy mate Sergei Malinka around 11.40pm - something he was 'too tired to remember' when the PJ first questioned him on 15 May.

The next morning, Murat pretended not to know that a young girl had been reported missing the night before, claiming that Stephen Carpenter told him whilst walking past his hedge the following morning. He then told Carpenter:

'Goodness gracious me, what a coincidence, I have a girl the same age - and guess what!, I'm a Portuguese-English translator. I'll go up right away and see if I can be of any use'.

The right man...

...in the right place...

...at the right time.

Just as well he stopped repairing his granny's house in Sidmouth and took that early morning Exeter to Faro flight on 1 May

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by sallypelt on 23.02.14 21:01

@Hicks wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:To save me a search, does anyone know on what date  Malinka's car was set on fire?
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/03/car-belonging-to-madeleine-case-witness.html
Thank you, Hicks. It was a later date to one I had in mind.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.02.14 21:02

@Hicks wrote:Thanks Tony, I pondered on how I might find the information about the case.
I have a whole lot more re Murat.

Ask me by 'pm' any time

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Guest on 23.02.14 21:09

@Tony Bennett wrote:
The right man...

...in the right place...

...at the right time.


But then you could also say the same about Carpenter. How many layers does this onion have?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Guest on 23.02.14 22:18

I've not heard that claim before. In any case, his daughter is not called Madeleine though she is of a similar age - born October 2002.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Hicks on 23.02.14 22:30

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I've not heard that claim before. In any case, his daughter is not called Madeleine though she is of a similar age - born October 2002.  
http://madeleinefoundation.org.uk/Muratpt1.html.

The info is in Section E.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Research_Reader on 23.02.14 23:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
"I've never met the man before and the idea that I'd met him when he was campaigning for the Labour Party is laughable. I've been a Conservative all my life."
 
Robert Murat on Gerry McCann, Daily Express, 14 September 2007 (no link),

This is not the response of someone who has not genuinely met GM - too much embellishment.
Quite right. If Hobs, our resident expert, was around, I am sure she would agree that there was no need for Murat to add anything to: 'I've never met the man before'. 

So, let's assume Murat and Gerry McCann had met before.

Two things pop into mind:

(1) Why didn't Gerry just lie and say "No, never met him before."? Why would he need to give a non-commital answer? Perhaps because he thought that evidence that he HAD met him before would be quite easy to find?

(2) Why did the reporter even ask that question? Its could be seen as quite an unusual question to ask. I wonder what the reporter knew, or was thinking?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Woofer on 24.02.14 0:27

@Research_Reader wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
"I've never met the man before and the idea that I'd met him when he was campaigning for the Labour Party is laughable. I've been a Conservative all my life."
 
Robert Murat on Gerry McCann, Daily Express, 14 September 2007 (no link),

This is not the response of someone who has not genuinely met GM - too much embellishment.
Quite right. If Hobs, our resident expert, was around, I am sure she would agree that there was no need for Murat to add anything to: 'I've never met the man before'. 

So, let's assume Murat and Gerry McCann had met before.

Two things pop into mind:

(1) Why didn't Gerry just lie and say "No, never met him before."? Why would he need to give a non-commital answer? Perhaps because he thought that evidence that he HAD met him before would be quite easy to find?

(2) Why did the reporter even ask that question? Its could be seen as quite an unusual question to ask. I wonder what the reporter knew, or was thinking?

Exactly.  Makes me wonder if the press know far more than they`ve let on so far.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Mirage on 24.02.14 0:37

From memory the voice of the reporter sounded like Sandra Felgeiras. That interests me because she has skewered both McCanns with awkward-brigade questions many times and the pair hate her for it. She seems to come from a position of awareness. Far more than any other interviewer I've seen. She was always on their case and prompted a fair amount of squirming from him and scowling from her.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.02.14 23:21

Was Murat a 'double bluff' -as in he was identified by many of the Tapas gang as having being outside the McCann's apartment the evening that Madeleine was allegedly 'abducted'.....so they all 'pointed the finger' on cue....

Which put him up as being 'falsely accused' when in actual fact he was instrumental in some way in what happened.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.02.14 23:31

@j.rob wrote:Was Murat a 'double bluff'? - as in he was identified by many of the Tapas gang as having being outside the McCann's apartment the evening that Madeleine was allegedly 'abducted'...so they all 'pointed the finger' on cue....

Which put him up as being 'falsely accused' - when in actual fact he was instrumental in some way in what happened.
Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

But in answer to your query, I will list 10 points of concern about Robert Murat:

1. There are indications that he and Gerry McCann already knew each other before April 2007
2. For no apparent reason, he suddenly booked a flight at midnight on 30 April/1 May 2007 and flew out to Faro hours later from Exeter, near where he was living at the time
3. As you may have seen on the thread, he lied comprehensively to the police about his movements on 1 to 3 May, when first interviewed, changing his story in at least 17 respects two months later
4. He seems to have been deliberately framed by British secuirty services, who told the PJ that he fitted the crimnal profile of the likley abductor
5. He was framed by Jane Tanner, who insisted it was Murat she saw at 9.15pm on 3 May. She later changed her story
6. He was also framed in the two days that followed by three more of the Tapas AND later by four more others, who all said he was hanging round the Ocean Club on the evening of 3 May. AGAIN, all changed their stories later.

From points 1 to 6, I see evidence that Robert Murat was called in to do a job, maybe act as a willing patsy, becoming a prime suspect and taking the heat off someone else.

In addition,

7. He admitted to regularly watching hard core porn on the 'Red Clouds' site
8. A witness said he had child sex abuse material on his computer
9. The PJ said he had encrypted material on his computer - which Murat could not explain, and
10. A witness who knew him well, Carlos Costa, gave a detailed description of his sexual deviancy as a teenager, which included sex or attempted sex with animals.

Points 7 to 10 raise obvious concerns.

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by diatribe on 28.02.14 0:17

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

But in answer to your query, I will list 10 points of concern about Robert Murat:

1. There are indications that he and Gerry McCann already knew each other before April 2007
2. For no apparent reason, he suddenly booked a flight at midnight on 30 April/1 May 2007 and flew out to Faro hours later from Exeter, near where he was living at the time
3. As you may have seen on the thread, he lied comprehensively to the police about his movements on 1 to 3 May, when first interviewed, changing his story in at least 17 respects two months later
4. He seems to have been deliberately framed by British secuirty services, who told the PJ that he fitted the crimnal profile of the likley abductor
5. He was framed by Jane Tanner, who insisted it was Murat she saw at 9.15pm on 3 May. She later changed her story
6. He was also framed in the two days that followed by three more of the Tapas AND later by four more others, who all said he was hanging round the Ocean Club on the evening of 3 May. AGAIN, all changed their stories later.

From points 1 to 6, I see evidence that Robert Murat was called in to do a job, maybe act as a willing patsy, becoming a prime suspect and taking the heat off someone else.

In addition,

7. He admitted to regularly watching hard core porn on the 'Red Clouds' site
8. A witness said he had child sex abuse material on his computer
9. The PJ said he had encrypted material on his computer - which Murat could not explain, and
10. A witness who knew him well, Carlos Costa, gave a detailed description of his sexual deviancy as a teenager, which included sex or attempted sex with animals.

Points 7 to 10 raise obvious concerns.
But would the McCanns or their friends attempt to frame a person who was party to a conspiracy, surely that would be the last thing any sane minded person would want to do to someone who had even a glimmer of knowledge as to what had transpired. I don't personally think that any of the McCann clan possessed criminally orientated minds, why they couldn't even simulate a forced entry, never mind concoct some kind of double bluff one might expect to find in an Ian Fleming novel.

I think it far more likely that they just latched onto that public spirited journalist who was looking for her 15 mins. of fame.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.02.14 0:23

@diatribe wrote:
I think it far more likely that they just latched onto that public spirited journalist who was looking for her 15 mins. of fame.
Hmmm, I hardly think you can laugh off the 10 points I made above about Murat by saying: 'It was just Lori Campbell wanting to make a name for herself".

And my 10 points don't even include the apparent evidence in the PJ files that Robert Murat and Dr Gerald McCann both had their mobile 'phones switched off for an identical period of 32 hours: 3pm on Wednesday 2 May to 11pm on Thursday 3 May.

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by aquila on 28.02.14 1:10

@marconi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@j.rob wrote:Was Murat a 'double bluff'? - as in he was identified by many of the Tapas gang as having being outside the McCann's apartment the evening that Madeleine was allegedly 'abducted'...so they all 'pointed the finger' on cue....

Which put him up as being 'falsely accused' - when in actual fact he was instrumental in some way in what happened.
Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.


10. A witness who knew him well, Carlos Costa, gave a detailed description of his sexual deviancy as a teenager, which included sex or attempted sex with animals.

======================================================================================================


DELETED.
I regret that I read yet another weird post from Marconi

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by sallypelt on 28.02.14 1:17

@aquila wrote:
@marconi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@j.rob wrote:Was Murat a 'double bluff'? - as in he was identified by many of the Tapas gang as having being outside the McCann's apartment the evening that Madeleine was allegedly 'abducted'...so they all 'pointed the finger' on cue....

Which put him up as being 'falsely accused' - when in actual fact he was instrumental in some way in what happened.
Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.


10. A witness who knew him well, Carlos Costa, gave a detailed description of his sexual deviancy as a teenager, which included sex or attempted sex with animals.

======================================================================================================


DE:ETED

I regret that this was told here. I think that Murat was a normal boy and that he is a normal man.
I regret that I read yet another weird post from Marconi
Aquila, I totally agree with you. I am beginning to question whether I missed out on something when I was growing up. I have NEVER known anyone to have sex with animals in my walk of life, and  I certainly didn't hear anyone wishing they could.  Sometimes, I can't believe what I am reading.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by aquila on 28.02.14 1:53

@sallypelt wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@marconi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@j.rob wrote:Was Murat a 'double bluff'? - as in he was identified by many of the Tapas gang as having being outside the McCann's apartment the evening that Madeleine was allegedly 'abducted'...so they all 'pointed the finger' on cue....

Which put him up as being 'falsely accused' - when in actual fact he was instrumental in some way in what happened.
Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.


10. A witness who knew him well, Carlos Costa, gave a detailed description of his sexual deviancy as a teenager, which included sex or attempted sex with animals.

======================================================================================================


DELETED

I regret that this was told here. I think that Murat was a normal boy and that he is a normal man.
I regret that I read yet another weird post from Marconi
Aquila, I totally agree with you. I am beginning to question whether I missed out on something when I was growing up. I have NEVER known anyone to have sex with animals in my walk of life, and  I certainly didn't hear anyone wishing they could.  Sometimes, I can't believe what I am reading.
How good do you feel now about anything Marconi posts? I know I can be a ratbag on this forum but believe me I read everything and I'm only interested in justice for Madeleine. So take a look at the marvelous world of Marconi's posts and tell me why people stick up for him/her/it.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by diatribe on 28.02.14 3:49

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Hmmm, I hardly think you can laugh off the 10 points I made above about Murat by saying: 'It was just Lori Campbell wanting to make a name for herself".

And my 10 points don't even include the apparent evidence in the PJ files that Robert Murat and Dr Gerald McCann both had their mobile 'phones switched off for an identical period of 32 hours: 3pm on Wednesday 2 May to 11pm on Thursday 3 May.

I appreciate the points you make, Tony, but I still can't envisage the McCanns sticking him up if he was in any way party to what transpired. I note that you also don't think he was involved.


''Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann ''

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Doug D on 28.02.14 10:29

Diatribe,
 
Tony says;
 
‘Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann’.
 
And follows this up with:
 
‘From points 1 to 6, I see evidence that Robert Murat was called in to do a job, maybe act as a willing patsy, becoming a prime suspect and taking the heat off someone else’
 
If he was ‘called in to do a job’ as suggested, why would TM then go against the ‘job’ and not ‘stick(ing) him up’ as you say?
 
This line of thinking, by implication, also takes ‘the event’ back to sometime before midnight on the 30th, when he flew back suddenly. 
…………..
 
As for Marconi, his changes between English/Bad English writing have been questioned many times before and I would suggest leads to either more than one poster or one of our English ‘twitter friends’ trying to add a bit of continental feel to the posts. The latest post above  inclines me more to our 'twitter friends' line. 
Just be aware, read with caution and don’t get sucked in would be my advice.

Dear old Clarence must have a team of ‘sleepers’ on here posting occasionally or not at all, ready to go into overdrive if called upon.   

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by bobbin on 28.02.14 11:34

@Doug D wrote:Diatribe,
 
Tony says;
 
‘Just to put it on the record once again, I do not think that Robert Murat played any part in causing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann’.
 
And follows this up with:
 
‘From points 1 to 6, I see evidence that Robert Murat was called in to do a job, maybe act as a willing patsy, becoming a prime suspect and taking the heat off someone else’
 
If he was ‘called in to do a job’ as suggested, why would TM then go against the ‘job’ and not ‘stick(ing) him up’ as you say?
 
This line of thinking, by implication, also takes ‘the event’ back to sometime before midnight on the 30th, when he flew back suddenly. 
…………..
 
As for Marconi, his changes between English/Bad English writing have been questioned many times before and I would suggest leads to either more than one poster or one of our English ‘twitter friends’ trying to add a bit of continental feel to the posts. The latest post above  inclines me more to our 'twitter friends' line. 
Just be aware, read with caution and don’t get sucked in would be my advice.

Dear old Clarence must have a team of ‘sleepers’ on here posting occasionally or not at all, ready to go into overdrive if called upon.   
Doug D. I couldn't agree with you more. You are so often spot on.
The value of the collective input by 'serious posters' is that the very fine nuances of language use, choice of words etc. show 'inconsistencies' up, just as much as the introspective analysis on the McCs and their observable inconsistencies.
When we see 'apparent' foreign language users, occasionally (off their guard) using complex and faultless English, and other times including 'clumsy' turns of phrase, aligned with the underlying message being somewhat 'disrupting', then we are right to note it as 'questionable'.
To know that this site will be a ripe target, since it is so effective and disruptive to the McCs and the line they wish to be followed, then we must also be aware that 'disrupters' will turn up in various disguises.
There are in my opinion, a handful, all the time, of planted 'sleepers'.
It is almost possible to predict, this long into the analysis, which key words/subjects will bring which sleepers out of hibernation.
As soon as one is blown out of the water another reincarnation appears, the very introduction being almost detectable of sleeper reincarnation, and so we know there are friends here and enemies in the midst.
The awakened sleepers however do serve one purpose. They leap out of their beds when a 'sensitive' issue comes to the fore.
This does help the 'serious posters' to focus on where the truth is more likely to lie and can save a lot of wasted energy.
They are being paid to do their jobs, and their personality profile will have been selected for this role, but they are also patent, and as a result, useful in the serious poster's 'bigger agenda' (yes, we can have one too, it's not just the prerogative of Gerry McCann) which is to get justice for a little girl who has been grotesquely abused.
AIMO of course, but all serious posters will know who they are, and all paid up 'players' will equally know who they are. The important thing is, most serious posters know who the 'players' are also.  spin big grin

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Research_Reader on 28.02.14 18:22

Murat has to be one of the most fascinating characters in this whole charade.

Like other aspects of the case its obvious that something is wrong, yet almost impossible to fit all the facts into a theory that makes sense.

Perhaps Murat WAS willing to go along with being the patsy for a guaranteed huge sum of money, and perhaps he was never given enough of the real details to be in a position to be a threat?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by HelenMeg on 28.02.14 19:22

I also find Robert Murat quite a fascinating character. I was watching a video on You Tube earlier where he was interviewed for some TV program on the patio area of his house (I think
) about the case, and the time he was made an arguido. Out of everyone, he came across totally naturally, answering questions fluently, not having to think before he spoke. He came across as a decent
pleasant man. I agree with Tony's view that he did not play a part in causing M's death, but I do believe based on what we know and can summise, that he was drafted in to help in the aftermath.
I also think he was used in terms of having the finger of suspicion pointed at him to divert attention away from others. He probably received substantial compensation for that at some point (looking at his current facebook - he seems to enjoy expensive holidays!).

I believe that he may have played a role in organising 'off peak' events at OC,  PdL. He appears to be one of those people that you can call on for anything (has lots of contacts / is very obliging/ wants to be part of the crowd / face doesn't quite fit etc etc ). Probably a genuinely nice guy ? If he did play a part in the cover up, then he is great actor judging by the interview I watched. Much better than the others. His comment about the cockpit has always intrigued me...

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.02.14 19:48

@HelenMeg wrote:I also find Robert Murat quite a fascinating character. I was watching a video on You Tube earlier where he was interviewed for some TV program on the patio area of his house (I think) about the case, and the time he was made an arguido. Out of everyone, he came across totally naturally, answering questions fluently, not having to think before he spoke. He came across as a decent pleasant man.

REPLY: This could either be because he is a thoroughly decent, pleasant man - or because he is a highly practised liar. The fact that he told 17 separate deliberate lies to the police about his precise whereabouts and movements between 1 and 4 May, when first questioned, does not help his case. And these were questions about the most famous missing child in the world, a three-year-old girl. What had happened to her? Why did he lie so much? It is impossible to understand Murat's probable involvement in all this without answering that question: why did he tell SEVENTEEN, DELIBERATE, lies?
 
I agree with Tony's view that he did not play a part in causing [Madeleine's disappearance], but I do believe based on what we know and can summise, that he was drafted in to help in the aftermath.

I also think he was used in terms of having the finger of suspicion pointed at him to divert attention away from others. He probably received substantial compensation for that at some point (looking at his current Facebook - he seems to enjoy expensive holidays!).

I believe that he may have played a role in organising 'off peak' events at OC,  PdL. He appears to be one of those people that you can call on for anything (has lots of contacts / is very obliging / wants to be part of the crowd / face doesn't quite fit etc. etc.). Probably a genuinely nice guy? If he did play a part in the cover-up, then he is great actor judging by the interview I watched. Much better than the others. His comment about the cockpit has always intrigued me...
HelenMeg,

In order to better understand Murat, can I recommend you, if you have not already done so, to look at ANOTHER Murat interview, analysed on the 'Eyes for Lies' site, here:

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2008/09/robert-murat-what-are-you-thinking.html 

No-one who wants to understand Murat's role in all this should pass up the opportunity to view, and carefully consider, what the 'Eyes for Lies' lady has to say about him here.

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Research_Reader on 28.02.14 19:48

What was the cockpit comment?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.02.14 19:52

@Research_Reader wrote:What was the cockpit comment?
I think HelenMeg may mean the bit where Murat says that this case has been 'the biggest f___-up ever', or similar.

That would suggest this to me.

That he agreed to play a part in the events from, say, 4 May onwards (translating etc.).

But that then something happened which went way beyond what he had (literally) bargained for.

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


Tony Bennett
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