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The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Estelle on 08.11.13 14:03

@Joss wrote:I am wondering what the link is between Smith & Murat as to how well they really knew each other and in what capacity? My guess is they knew each other very well If Martin was willing to stick his neck out for Murat to give him an alibi? And then how could Martin be so certain who they saw if it was such a vague description of the man they supposedly saw to know it was not Murat? But if it was only to cover for Murat that they saw some mystery man carrying a small child, and they fabricated that man to get Murat off the hook? Dunno.
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8396-martin-smith-sighting-connections

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 14:09

Just two points. First about the point of view that the police would not lead a witness about who they had seen..........



Witness Statement

Adriaan Jacobus Van Marais

Date: 2007/11/16


Profession: Head of Personnel

Place of Work: Golfinho Restaurant, P da L


When questioned he said that he does not know Robert Murat. He never saw him personally. He has just seen him on television. When asked he says that he does not remember having seen him that night helping in the searches.





Second Point regarding the police asking the question about looking like a tourist, well, another independent witness says the same about a suspicious individual (not the sighting), therefore he must have been asked the question...........



This person did not seem to him to be a tourist or an inhabitant of the village. He describes the individual as being male, white, but with sun-tanned skin, aged about 30. He was about 1.70 ? 1.80 tall and had a normal physical appearance. He remembers that he had dark coloured hair, a little gathered at the back but not covering his neck totally. He does not remember whether he ever saw him with glasses, but knows that he did not have a beard or moustache. He does not remember any other details




Above from the statement of Head of Personnel Golfinho Restaurant

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ADRIAAN_MARAIOS.htm#p12p3255






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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 08.11.13 14:13

@Tony Bennett wrote:People have been asking what possible motive Martin Smith could have had for fabricating a sighting - an idea that, as I fully appreciate, most people have trouble coming to terms with.

It is a fact that Martin Smith knew Murat.

It is a fact that Martin Smith owns an apartment in Praia da Luz in the Estrala da Luz complex.

We do not know for how long i.e. for how many years.

There is evidence that Martin Smith has minimised his degree of acquaintance with Murat.

It is a fact that Murat was made an arguido on 14 May.

It is fact that on 15 and 16 May, the following members of the Tapas 7 all made statements (which they have since retracted( claiming (falsely) that they saw Murat hanging around near the Ocean Club the night Madeleine was reported missing:

Rachael Oldfield/Mamphilly
Russell O'Brien
Fiona Payne

It is reported as a fact (and I believe it to be so) that neither Martin Smith nor any member of his family did anything about reporting their 'sighting' until 16 May, when they 'phoned the PJ.

It is a fact that when Martin Smith was interviewed by the PJ in Portugal on 26 May, he was able to say that the man with child that he says he saw was not Robert Murat.   

I guess as amateur sleuths it is up to us to work out what all this might mean.
So you largely agree with my suggestion then? (I understand you have to be very careful) It could be that the family did see a man carrying a kid sometime on the evening of the 3rd and after Murat was implicated he wanted to help a friend. I will try to think about this more...thinking 

So now if we eliminate this sighting along with the Tanner sighting we are back to square one with the Tapas 9 at dinner doing checks every few minutes around the apartment complex and yet a girl disappears without a trace.

I would really like to hear the latest theory from any of you long time sleuths because I'm completely stumped once again.flag

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by jeanmonroe on 08.11.13 14:14

@aquila wrote:The thing that strikes me is that whilst the McCanns have their website (£37k publicly funded and rarely updated) asking for information (and please look at the confidentiality arrangements on that) and whilst Scotland Yard have done a Crimewatch spectacular and whilst the Portuguese police are now asking for judicial secrecy there is no advantage for anyone with information to come forward other than to have their lives picked over with a fish fork.

Scotland Yard need to sort this out imo and they can start by closing down the findmadeleine website's private number to appeal for information.

As I understand things the McCanns have their wish to re-open the case in Portugal. The McCanns were granted their wish for the Met to do an independent review.

What the hell is wrong with Scotland Yard now telling the McCanns to close their own 'helpline' and telling everyone that ALL information must go through the Yard?
TANNERMAN IS STILL BEING PROMOTED ON THEIR WEBSITE, RIGHT NOW!
http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

WHY HASN'T SY/MET CLOSED THIS DOWN AS IT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DIMISSED, BY THEM, THE ELITES, AS A 'REAL' SIGHTING OF AN ABDUCTOR?

WHY ARE SY/MET ALLOWING THIS 'FALSE' ABDUCTOR DESCRIPTION TO STILL BE PROMOTED BY THE MCCANNS AS A PERSON OF INTEREST?

25 DAYS AFTER DISMISSING IT AS A FALSE 'SIGHTING'!

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Joss on 08.11.13 14:14

@Estelle wrote:
@Joss wrote:I am wondering what the link is between Smith & Murat as to how well they really knew each other and in what capacity? My guess is they knew each other very well If Martin was willing to stick his neck out for Murat to give him an alibi? And then how could Martin be so certain who they saw if it was such a vague description of the man they supposedly saw to know it was not Murat? But if it was only to cover for Murat that they saw some mystery man carrying a small child, and they fabricated that man to get Murat off the hook? Dunno.
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8396-martin-smith-sighting-connections
Estelle,  Thankyou for posting the link. I had a quick read and will study it further. Wow it's all very convoluted as to all the different links to different people, interesting.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Joss on 08.11.13 14:20

If there was no abduction then there are no suspects.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Mirage on 08.11.13 14:22

@aquila wrote:The thing that strikes me is that whilst the McCanns have their website (£37k publicly funded and rarely updated) asking for information (and please look at the confidentiality arrangements on that) and whilst Scotland Yard have done a Crimewatch spectacular and whilst the Portuguese police are now asking for judicial secrecy there is no advantage for anyone with information to come forward other than to have their lives picked over with a fish fork.

Scotland Yard need to sort this out imo and they can start by closing down the findmadeleine website's private number to appeal for information.

As I understand things the McCanns have their wish to re-open the case in Portugal. The McCanns were granted their wish for the Met to do an independent review.

What the hell is wrong with Scotland Yard now telling the McCanns to close their own 'helpline' and telling everyone that ALL information must go through the Yard?
BUMP! clapping

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Estelle on 08.11.13 14:26

@Daisy wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:Before we disappear down too many rabbit holes, can someone give a citation for the Smiths knowing Murat? I think I've seen the claim before, but not the evidence for that being the case.
"... Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm


MS
"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.
"He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."

http://news.sky.com/story/593646/missing-madeleine-mccann-irish-witness-clears-murat
Here MS is saying he did not think he was "Portuguese" therefore he must be a tourist!  So what about the large British ex-pat community who live there and are locals? Also, at night, most men would wear long trousers and a jacket, surely!

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by jeanmonroe on 08.11.13 14:28

TheTruthWillOut
So now if we eliminate this sighting along with the Tanner sighting we are back to square one with the Tapas 9 at dinner doing checks every few minutes around the apartment complex and yet a girl disappears without a trace.

I would really like to hear the latest theory from any of you long time sleuths because I'm completely stumped once again.
.....................................................................................................
There has never been, and there isn't a scintilla of ANY 'evidence', of an 'abduction'.

ONLY the SAY SO of the McCanns themselves and their 'friends' (especially DP)

They, the McCanns, have never, ever, PRODUCED a minutest piece of 'evidence' that an 'abduction' occurred.

Even though they have, supposedly, spent an absolute 'fortune' with their own 'investigators'

With the result being the McCanns and their 'PI's' have not produced a single ATOM of 'evidence' to support their 'claim' that Madeleine WAS 'abducted'.

GERRY MCCANN WAS THE LAST PERSON TO ADMIT SEEING A 'LIVE' MADELEINE, IN HER BED, SO HE SAYS, AT HIS 'CHECK' AT 9.05pm 3rd May 2007.


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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.11.13 14:32

@RIPM wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
It is fact that on 15 and 16 May, the following members of the Tapas 7 all made statements (which they have since retracted( claiming (falsely) that they saw Murat hanging around near the Ocean Club the night Madeleine was reported missing:

Rachael Oldfield/Mamphilly
Russell O'Brien
Fiona Payne

Can you inform us on what date and where RO, RO'B and FP retracted their statements implicating Murat as being outside 5a on 3rd May. 

Ah! RIPM! I thought it wouldn't be long before you asked me a tricky question. You joined on 17th October and have been busy on the 'Smith' threads. It has taken you 21 days. Longer than I expected.

Please don't read too much into what I have written above, and it is certainly not meant in any way to be sarcastic.

Certainly not, as I suspect that you have a very great deal of knowledge about this case, possibly a great deal more than we think.  

In actual fact, you have asked a very good question (consistent with someone with a great deal of knowledge about this case).

You asked on what date and where exactly did RO, RO'B and FP retract their statements implicating Murat being outside G5A .

The answer is very instructive.

I have in fact provided an answer to that very question in my 120-page article on Robert Murat. If you've either not read that yet, or you can't find it anywhere on the internet, do let me know, and I'll be pleased to supply you with the relevant passages where I have analysed all this.

Anyway, I suggest that part of the answer, indeed perhaps a great deal of it, begins with a secret meeting held on 13 November 2007 at the house of Raplh and Sally Eveleigh on Portugal's Algarve coast.

The 'Secret Seven' at that meeting were:

1. Robert Murat
2. Brian Kennedy
3. Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete
4. Kennedy's in-house lawyer, Freemason and Director of Madeleine's Fund, Edward Smethurst
5. Murat's Mum
6. Ralph Eveleigh, and
7. Sally Eveleigh.

Two weeks later, the Portuguese press got hold of this meeting being held and publicised it. Kennedy had to come up with a rapid explanation for why he was there and said that he had flown over to Portugal 'to offer Murat a job finding Madeleine'.

I will refrain from commenting on that other than to say I found his explanation 'interesting'.

You see, it was not long after that that there was a gradual retraction of the statements of RO, RO'B and FP implicating Murat as hanging around the Ocean Club.

Not only that, these retractions, as well as happening gradually, also happened in newspaper articles.    

A common feature of these newspaper articles was that they were sourced from many people - or were they one and the same? - described as:

'a source close to the family'

'a family friend'

'a close friend of the McCanns'

'a legal source'

'a source close to the McCanns' legal team'

'a well-placed source'

'a spokesman for the McCanns'

(or any one of about two dozen similar descriptions).

Just to give you a clue, the main period for these gradual retractions was late November 2007 to February 2008.

But I'm sure you will find more in my article on Robert Murat.     


 

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.11.13 14:36

@jeanmonroe wrote:They, the McCanns, have never, ever, PRODUCED a minutest piece of 'evidence' that an 'abduction' occurred.
They have.

Up until now, we have had their word PLUS Tannerman.

Redwood has found Tannerman - it was crecheman.

The abduction evidence is now their word PLUS Smithman.

It is as simple as that.

I hopes that clears it up.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.11.13 14:39

@Estelle wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:Before we disappear down too many rabbit holes, can someone give a citation for the Smiths knowing Murat? I think I've seen the claim before, but not the evidence for that being the case.
"... Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm


MS
"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.
"He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."

http://news.sky.com/story/593646/missing-madeleine-mccann-irish-witness-clears-murat
Here MS is saying he did not think he was "Portuguese" therefore he must be a tourist!  So what about the large British ex-pat community who live there and are locals? Also, at night, most men would wear long trousers and a jacket, surely!
Estelle - well spotted! - even from 12,000 miles away!

Not a tourist...

...not Portuguese.

Therefore neither a tourist nor a local.

But wait!

Maybe a non-Portuguese who was local! 

That must narrow the field a bit in a small Portuguese village of a few hundred people!

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by currio on 08.11.13 14:41

Tony, in your opinion do you think the truth will ever come out?

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 14:41

candyfloss wrote:Just two points.  First about the point of view that the police would not lead a witness about who they had seen..........



Witness Statement

Adriaan Jacobus Van Marais

Date: 2007/11/16


Profession: Head of Personnel

Place of Work: Golfinho Restaurant, P da L


When questioned he said that he does not know Robert Murat. He never saw him personally. He has just seen him on television. When asked he says that he does not remember having seen him that night helping in the searches.





Second Point regarding the police asking the question about looking like a tourist, well, another independent witness says the same about a suspicious individual (not the sighting), therefore he must have been asked the question...........



This person did not seem to him to be a tourist or an inhabitant of the village. He describes the individual as being male, white, but with sun-tanned skin, aged about 30. He was about 1.70 ? 1.80 tall and had a normal physical appearance. He remembers that he had dark coloured hair, a little gathered at the back but not covering his neck totally. He does not remember whether he ever saw him with glasses, but knows that he did not have a beard or moustache. He does not remember any other details




Above from the statement of Head of Personnel Golfinho Restaurant

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ADRIAAN_MARAIOS.htm#p12p3255





So what about this Tony?

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.11.13 14:44

candyfloss wrote:Just two points.  First about the point of view that the police would not lead a witness about who they had seen..........

Witness Statement

Adriaan Jacobus Van Marais

Date: 2007/11/16

 Profession: Head of Personnel

Place of Work: Golfinho Restaurant, P da L


When questioned he said that he does not know Robert Murat. He never saw him personally. He has just seen him on television. When asked he says that he does not remember having seen him that night helping in the searches.

Second Point regarding the police asking the question about looking like a tourist, well, another independent witness says the same about a suspicious individual (not the sighting), therefore he must have been asked the question...........

This person did not seem to him to be a tourist or an inhabitant of the village. He describes the individual as being male, white, but with sun-tanned skin, aged about 30. He was about 1.70 ? 1.80 tall and had a normal physical appearance. He remembers that he had dark coloured hair, a little gathered at the back but not covering his neck totally. He does not remember whether he ever saw him with glasses, but knows that he did not have a beard or moustache. He does not remember any other details

Above from the statement of Head of Personnel Golfinho Restaurant

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ADRIAAN_MARAIOS.htm#p12p3255
Good points.

But this statement wasn't taken until 16 November, by which time...

1. Amaral and his colleagues had been booted off the case over 6 weeks before

2. A new police team was in charge

3. The police would by then be particularly intetrested in whether or not any sighting could have been of a foreigner or of Murat.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.11.13 14:45

@currio wrote:Tony, in your opinion do you think the truth will ever come out?
I keep saying that I hope all the truth will be revealed before I die.

I am now 66

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Monty Heck on 08.11.13 14:47

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:Reading the last few pages has got me wondering...could this sighting simply be a "revenge" sighting as payback to the Tapas 9 for implicating Murat? Sorry if I missed this theory earlier. 

I hope it isn't, but nothing would shock me in this case anymore ( besides the utter selfishness with a little girl missing)
People have been asking what possible motive Martin Smith could have had for fabricating a sighting - an idea that, as I fully appreciate, most people have trouble coming to terms with.

It is a fact that Martin Smith knew Murat.

It is a fact that Martin Smith owns an apartment in Praia da Luz in the Estrala da Luz complex.

We do not know for how long i.e. for how many years.

There is evidence that Martin Smith has minimised his degree of acquaintance with Murat.

It is a fact that Murat was made an arguido on 14 May.

It is fact that on 15 and 16 May, the following members of the Tapas 7 all made statements (which they have since retracted( claiming (falsely) that they saw Murat hanging around near the Ocean Club the night Madeleine was reported missing:

Rachael Oldfield/Mamphilly
Russell O'Brien
Fiona Payne

It is reported as a fact (and I believe it to be so) that neither Martin Smith nor any member of his family did anything about reporting their 'sighting' until 16 May, when they 'phoned the PJ.

It is a fact that when Martin Smith was interviewed by the PJ in Portugal on 26 May, he was able to say that the man with child that he says he saw was not Robert Murat.   

I guess as amateur sleuths it is up to us to work out what all this might mean.
Re text in bold red (mine) Estrella da Luz is one of the newer complexes in PDL and in 2007 would probably have been open maybe two years or so.  Website here www.estreladaluz.com gives no completion date for the complex but I do recall for the first several years of visiting PDL the area was a fenced off site, so  as a guesstimate would calculate it opened around 2005. 

Probably advances things not an inch but wanted to point out that EDL isn't one of the long established complexes like OC, therefore in 2007 MS would have owned his apartment for no more than 2 or maybe 3 years, assuming he occupied it immediately it was completed.  If MS had visited his apartment at EDL perhaps twice a year for the past couple of years this does not seem to suggest a particularly long or involved acquaintance with RM, although it's possible they may have known each other before then.

Still undecided re Smithman.  Leaving aside the reliability of the Smith family, there are simply too many similarities to Tannerman, now ruled out by SY.  It's hard to follow the logic of categorically ruling out one sighting but on the other hand promoting another, uncannily similar individual.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.11.13 14:48

@Okeydokey wrote:Before we disappear down too many rabbit holes, can someone give a citation for the Smiths knowing Murat? I think I've seen the claim before, but not the evidence for that being the case.
Okeydokey - briefly, he has admitted it both in his police interview (16 May 2007) and in newspaper interviews - try mccannfiles for all the references.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 14:50

@Tony Bennett wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Just two points.  First about the point of view that the police would not lead a witness about who they had seen..........

Witness Statement

Adriaan Jacobus Van Marais

Date: 2007/11/16

 Profession: Head of Personnel

Place of Work: Golfinho Restaurant, P da L


When questioned he said that he does not know Robert Murat. He never saw him personally. He has just seen him on television. When asked he says that he does not remember having seen him that night helping in the searches.



Second Point regarding the police asking the question about looking like a tourist, well, another independent witness says the same about a suspicious individual (not the sighting), therefore he must have been asked the question...........

This person did not seem to him to be a tourist or an inhabitant of the village. He describes the individual as being male, white, but with sun-tanned skin, aged about 30. He was about 1.70 ? 1.80 tall and had a normal physical appearance. He remembers that he had dark coloured hair, a little gathered at the back but not covering his neck totally. He does not remember whether he ever saw him with glasses, but knows that he did not have a beard or moustache. He does not remember any other details

Above from the statement of Head of Personnel Golfinho Restaurant

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ADRIAAN_MARAIOS.htm#p12p3255
Good points.

But this statement wasn't taken until 16 November, by which time...

1. Amaral and his colleagues had been booted off the case over 6 weeks before

2. A new police team was in charge

3. The police would by then be particularly intetrested in whether or not any sighting could have been of a foreigner or of Murat.
My point is that this is the sort of questioning the PJ did, I expect a standard thing. Murat was an arguido wasn't he when Smith gave his statement, it was right at the beginning, so I am sure they would have asked the question so as to eliminate him from being the man Smith saw.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 14:53

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@aquila wrote:The thing that strikes me is that whilst the McCanns have their website (£37k publicly funded and rarely updated) asking for information (and please look at the confidentiality arrangements on that) and whilst Scotland Yard have done a Crimewatch spectacular and whilst the Portuguese police are now asking for judicial secrecy there is no advantage for anyone with information to come forward other than to have their lives picked over with a fish fork.

Scotland Yard need to sort this out imo and they can start by closing down the findmadeleine website's private number to appeal for information.

As I understand things the McCanns have their wish to re-open the case in Portugal. The McCanns were granted their wish for the Met to do an independent review.

What the hell is wrong with Scotland Yard now telling the McCanns to close their own 'helpline' and telling everyone that ALL information must go through the Yard?
TANNERMAN IS STILL BEING PROMOTED ON THEIR WEBSITE, RIGHT NOW!
http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

WHY HASN'T SY/MET CLOSED THIS DOWN AS IT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DIMISSED, BY THEM, THE ELITES, AS A 'REAL' SIGHTING OF AN ABDUCTOR?

WHY ARE SY/MET ALLOWING THIS 'FALSE' ABDUCTOR DESCRIPTION TO STILL BE PROMOTED BY THE MCCANNS AS A PERSON OF INTEREST?

25 DAYS AFTER DISMISSING IT AS A FALSE 'SIGHTING'!
and why are these basic common sense comments on this forum being lost with trivialities such as bar receipts?

Makes ya wonder!

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by currio on 08.11.13 15:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@currio wrote:Tony, in your opinion do you think the truth will ever come out?
I keep saying that I hope all the truth will be revealed before I die.

I am now 66
Thanks Tony. ...I have a feeling it's coming very soon :)

One more question. Were you LogicMan?...He seemed to have it sussed, in the first few days.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Estelle on 08.11.13 15:06

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:People have been asking what possible motive Martin Smith could have had for fabricating a sighting - an idea that, as I fully appreciate, most people have trouble coming to terms with.

It is a fact that Martin Smith knew Murat.

It is a fact that Martin Smith owns an apartment in Praia da Luz in the Estrala da Luz complex.

We do not know for how long i.e. for how many years.

There is evidence that Martin Smith has minimised his degree of acquaintance with Murat.

It is a fact that Murat was made an arguido on 14 May.

It is fact that on 15 and 16 May, the following members of the Tapas 7 all made statements (which they have since retracted( claiming (falsely) that they saw Murat hanging around near the Ocean Club the night Madeleine was reported missing:

Rachael Oldfield/Mamphilly
Russell O'Brien
Fiona Payne

It is reported as a fact (and I believe it to be so) that neither Martin Smith nor any member of his family did anything about reporting their 'sighting' until 16 May, when they 'phoned the PJ.

It is a fact that when Martin Smith was interviewed by the PJ in Portugal on 26 May, he was able to say that the man with child that he says he saw was not Robert Murat.   

I guess as amateur sleuths it is up to us to work out what all this might mean.
So you largely agree with my suggestion then? (I understand you have to be very careful) It could be that the family did see a man carrying a kid sometime on the evening of the 3rd and after Murat was implicated he wanted to help a friend. I will try to think about this more...thinking 

So now if we eliminate this sighting along with the Tanner sighting we are back to square one with the Tapas 9 at dinner doing checks every few minutes around the apartment complex and yet a girl disappears without a trace.

I would really like to hear the latest theory from any of you long time sleuths because I'm completely stumped once again.flag
I must admit that I have been on the fence about Martin Smith's sighting since TB pointed out the 17 similarities with their "sightings" which I had not realised before. 

I had always believed that Martin Smith made his statement mainly to protect Murat but he still must have sighted someone.  

Then when he said he was 60-80% sure he saw Gerry McCann in September, 2007, I had since believed that it was Gerry carrying a sedated blonde child to support the abduction scenario assuming it could have been Amelie who was not much smaller than Maddie and lighter to carry. His goal being to be seen but not recognised. 

But I am now wondering whether Jane Tanner and Martin Smith were in collusion because not all the 17 similarities were released to the media so how did he know about them? 

Somebody must have told him. Did Murat know these similarities and phoned MS about them asking him to give him an alibi stating these similarities? Or did MS get this knowledge via Jane or TM?  So if MS was in league with them, why would he say it was 60-80% Gerry? 

"Truthwillcomeout" has suggested revenge. So was it because they had not changed their stories by then?  

But if Murat had been a willing patsy, had it all gone too far?  Had they promised to change their stories earlier and had not? So Martin Smith decided to say it was Gerry in revenge?  Then we had Kennedy's visit to Murat and then their stories gradually started to change. 

Then they later started to make connections with Jane's and Martin's sightings.      

This is all starting to make sense and I have come off the fence. Now there is definitely no sighting of an abductor that night.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by jeanmonroe on 08.11.13 15:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:They, the McCanns, have never, ever, PRODUCED a minutest piece of 'evidence' that an 'abduction' occurred.
They have.

Up until now, we have had their word PLUS Tannerman.

Redwood has found Tannerman - it was crecheman.

The abduction evidence is now their word PLUS Smithman.

It is as simple as that.

I hopes that clears it up.
So when SY 'find' Smithman and 'discount' him too..........OMG!

That MEANS the only 'abduction evidence' will ONLY be the 'missing' child's own parents, the McCanns, 'word'.

Phew, that's alright then..........NO doctor has never, ever lied before, have they?

They must be cursing DCI Redwood for eliminating their 'friend' Jane's 'sighting' (PROOF) of Madeleine being 'carried off (abducted) wearing the exact same pyjamas Madeleine had on and which Gerry never told her about'

That clears it up!

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 15:20

It never ceases to amaze me that the moment Tony Bennett makes a post the trolls come out in force.

Not everyone on this forum who questions Tony Bennett is a troll of course, quite a few supported him at his contempt of court trial by turning up to support him and voting with their feet.

Nevertheless, it's always a sure sign for me that as soon as Tony posts anything at all there's a flurry of trollish behaviour and criticism.

I disagree with Tony on many of his posts and opinions. It doesn't lessen my respect for him that he was taken to court by the McCanns, had his mouth shut by Carter Ruck and it cost him thousands of personal finance to have a voice that is still not allowed to be heard. You have to ask yourself why the 'mediocre' doctors from the Midlands picked on one person.

I can't understand for the life of me why Tony continues to post but he does. Sometimes you can't hold a good man down. It must be bloody awful to be the only person not allowed to comment. I'm not sticking up here for Tony's opinions as I don't agree with many of them. What I am sticking up for is his right to have an opinion and to voice it.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by currio on 08.11.13 15:26

@aquila wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that the moment Tony Bennett makes a post the trolls come out in force.

Not everyone on this forum who questions Tony Bennett is a troll of course, quite a few supported him at his contempt of court trial by turning up to support him and voting with their feet.

Nevertheless, it's always a sure sign for me that as soon as Tony posts anything at all there's a flurry of trollish behaviour and criticism.

I disagree with Tony on many of his posts and opinions. It doesn't lessen my respect for him that he was taken to court by the McCanns, had his mouth shut by Carter Ruck and it cost him thousands of personal finance to have a voice that is still not allowed to be heard. You have to ask yourself why the 'mediocre' doctors from the Midlands picked on one person.

I can't understand for the life of me why Tony continues to post but he does. Sometimes you can't hold a good man down. It must be bloody awful to be the only person not allowed to comment. I'm not sticking up here for Tony's opinions as I don't agree with many of them. What I am sticking up for is his right to have an opinion and to voice it.
If you reread what you wrote you'll realise you have just contradicted yourself.

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