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5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Guest on 06.11.13 14:47

@Mélusine wrote:On http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/77sep13/AnneGuedes_12_09_2013.htm#ltd8ml

there are already transcripts of yesterday's hearing, but for some reason I'm not just now able to download the PDF files. Maybe somebody else could?
***
I tried, but cannot download either :-(

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by currio on 06.11.13 14:52

@mouse wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@bellum wrote:
@sami wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Does anyone know if Isabel Duarte was at Court yesterday?
I would like to know this also cristobell
it makes three of us.
I've tried all the usual sources, but can't find an answer.  I thought it significant that she was absent for the last session - she looked as though she was heading for a nervous breakdown.
Just checked the 'Justice Forum' and finally found a post form Anne - answering this very question. Apparently Isabel is there, no assistant this time. Found it tucked away on the 'Trial Section - Day 7 - tagged on the end of this for some reason.
Who is she?

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Mélusine on 06.11.13 14:56

@currio wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@bellum wrote:
@sami wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Does anyone know if Isabel Duarte was at Court yesterday?
I would like to know this also cristobell
it makes three of us.
I've tried all the usual sources, but can't find an answer.  I thought it significant that she was absent for the last session - she looked as though she was heading for a nervous breakdown.
Just checked the 'Justice Forum' and finally found a post form Anne - answering this very question. Apparently Isabel is there, no assistant this time. Found it tucked away on the 'Trial Section - Day 7 - tagged on the end of this for some reason.
Who is she?
 I understand she is the lady who makes the transcripts of the hearings.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by sami on 06.11.13 15:02

Châtelaine wrote:
@Mélusine wrote:On http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/77sep13/AnneGuedes_12_09_2013.htm#ltd8ml

there are already transcripts of yesterday's hearing, but for some reason I'm not just now able to download the PDF files. Maybe somebody else could?
***
I tried, but cannot download either :-(
Me neither.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by sammyc on 06.11.13 15:16

I've managed to download it but don't know how to link it to here.  Can anyone assist me in this? Thanks

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Daisy on 06.11.13 15:19

@currio wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@bellum wrote:
@sami wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Does anyone know if Isabel Duarte was at Court yesterday?
I would like to know this also cristobell
it makes three of us.
I've tried all the usual sources, but can't find an answer.  I thought it significant that she was absent for the last session - she looked as though she was heading for a nervous breakdown.
Just checked the 'Justice Forum' and finally found a post form Anne - answering this very question. Apparently Isabel is there, no assistant this time. Found it tucked away on the 'Trial Section - Day 7 - tagged on the end of this for some reason.
Who is she?
If you're inquiring about Isabel Duarte then she is the McCann's Lawyer

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“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by sammyc on 06.11.13 15:28

Apologies, the link given in earlier posts gave day 7 as sometime in October.  Yesterday was Day 8 in Court and not downloadable yet.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Pinktulips on 06.11.13 16:07


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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Daisy on 06.11.13 16:14

Thank you  smilie

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 06.11.13 16:21

Interesting that Duarte was not there. I hope she is not very ill or something. If she is in good health, it adds an interesting dimension as to why she is choosing not to represent the McCanns, or have they fired her?

I am sure we will find out in due course.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by jeanmonroe on 06.11.13 16:21

Wednesday, 6 November 2013

McCann v Amaral (05 Nov 2013) Francisco Moita Flores Transcript

Libel Trial Day 7
Francisco Moita Flores
(Retired Polícia Judiciária (PJ) Inspector and writer)

By Anne Guedes of the UK Justice Forum

Libel trial McCann v Gonçalo Amaral - Day 7 Witness No 5

The testimony as it happened...

(08.10.2013, 2:45pm) Francisco Moita Flores is a retired Polícia Judiciária (PJ) Inspector, he is also a writer.

He is the only witness who has greeted the public before sitting in the witness chair. This was repeated at the end of the session when the witness turned towards the public and again acknowledged them with a smile and a slight nod.

The Judge asks the witness what sort of contact he has with the McCann process.
MF says he has known Gonçalo Amaral since the time they were both in the PJ. He says they are more or less contemporaneous; although GA is younger than him.

The Judge asks whether apart from professional relations they are friends.
MF says they know each other, he says they never went to each other's home.

The Judge asks if the witness knows the McCanns.
MF says "no".

The Judge asks MF if he wrote a book on this case.
MF says he didn't, but commented on the case many times, particularly on TV.

The Judge – Have you read the book?
MF says he did.

The Judge – Have you watched the documentary?
MF says he didn't.

The Judge – Then you were a commentator on TV and also wrote chronicles?
MF answers "yes".

1) Defence lawyers

a) Dr Santos de Oliveira, GA's lawyer, is the first to question the witness.

SO – What reason did you have to comment on this case?
MF says that first it is his job. He does it professionally because he has experience of being a police inspector and has connections with the police. In this particular case he says that very early he claimed that the police were making errors.

SO – Why?
MF Because they should have considered all the possible hypotheses instead of restricting the investigation to the prefabricated idea of abduction.

SO – When did you read the book?
MF says he only read it after it was published. He adds that he first read the book and then read the criminal process report.

SO – Through those readings do you consider that the "death" theory...
The Judge overrules, she says the questions cannot be commented upon.

SO – When you became aware of the book and the Report have you heard...
The Judge overrules.

SO protests’ arguing the issue is to consider the conclusions. He asks about the "death" theory.
MF says it is more likely that the child died. And he adds it is impossible that someone passed through the window with a child. He says the abduction theory then doesn't make sense. He observes that there are many possibilities, it's perfectly admissible for instance that the child went out to search for her parents. If the child died, it could have been outside of the flat or in the flat. But, he says, the disappearance never could have happened through the window, he insists that it is essential to understand that it is technically, humanly, impossible. The witness concludes affirming that all the hypotheses are possible, except for the abduction “through that window”.

b) G&P's lawyer, Dra Fatima Esteves.

GP – Is it possible to determine a "before" and an "after" the book's publication, in a media perspective?
MF says he was in Greece at the time. He learnt about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann through CNN or Sky News. He returned to Portugal a few days later and doesn't remember having ever seen such a large media circus. It was so enormous that it lasted for weeks and even months. The witness recalls how the parents were filmed every time they went out. When they were made arguidos, he claimed that they should be well treated. Eventually they could be blamed for having neglected their children. Many TV programmes were done. He says the book was published in the continuity of chronicles, interviews, documentaries that this case elicited: the witness statement of an inspector.

GP – What about the documentary?
MF only remembers that someone talked to him about it, nothing more.

GP – Do you think that, because of the book, they stopped investigating the case?
MF says he was perplexed when the case was shelved. He feels he has to say that the case was very well investigated. If the Public Ministry doesn't reopen the case, it's because no relevant piece of evidence has been brought. The witness suggests that the case suffered carnival aspects and early errors, the biggest being not to have investigated the parents. Life shows us that there are parents who mistreat their children and this eventuality could not be properly discarded.

GP – Do you know about the note sent to the media by the PGR (Procuradoria da Republica)?
MF says the PJ cannot do diligences without authorisation from the Public Ministry. He insists very much on this.

GP – What about the Scotland Yard rogatory letter?
MF says that what SY requested was in the criminal process, such as the checking of cell-phone communications. Recreate everything? Yes, I suppose everything can be done again only to reach the same conclusion. The witness remarks that SY only contemplated the abduction hypothesis. What if for example the little girl went out, fell and wasn't found? He qualifies the restricted vision (of abduction) as "prophetic and dogmatic" and observes that the police knew that what was crucial was finding evidence.

GP – Are there some books published on this?
MF says in Portugal and in the UK many books are published on relevant cases.

GP – Cases with media coverage are a subject matter for books?
MF says that the majority of the authors are journalists. He adds that he himself writes about crime and refers to the many books in which he contributes his opinion on cases.

2) Lawyer for the Plaintiffs in substitution of Dra Isabel Duarte, Dr Ricardo Afonso.

RA – When you said that the police had committed an error in investigating only the abduction hypothesis, what do you base that assumption on?
MF answers that it is based on his own experience. Experience says that the main suspects are closest to the victim and that the solution is often the simpler one. He adds that an abduction assumption cannot be discarded, but should not be the first or only one to be examined.

RA – Gonçalo Amaral says that on the 4 May 2007, all the hypotheses were taken in consideration.
MF Yes, at that time.

RA – Whom would you point to?
MF Nobody in particular.

RA – Why were you perplexed when the process was shelved?
MF I found that the contradictions by the people who had access to the McCann apartment were not explored sufficiently. It was a fundamental error not to isolate them, check who had access to the apartment and collect the data relating to their phone calls in order to clarify the discrepancies in their statements. If it had been done, we wouldn't be here, involved in a trial on freedom of opinion.

Evidence ends.

Note

Witness for the Defence, Hernâni Carvalho, was scheduled to give evidence on the 10th October. . The Judge asked Defence lawyer Dr Santos de Oliveira, if he wished to give up this witness to which he replied that he doesn’t. The Judge then dictated to the clerk a note of the fine this witness will have to pay for not having presented himself before the Court (if a valid justification is provided, the fine will be set aside).

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by jeanmonroe on 06.11.13 16:31

RA – Why were you perplexed when the process was shelved?
MF I found that the CONTRADICTIONS by the people who had access to the McCann apartment were not explored sufficiently. It was a fundamental error not to isolate them, check who had access to the apartment and collect the data relating to their phone calls in order to clarify the DISCREPANCIES in their statements. If it had been done, we wouldn't be here, involved in a trial on freedom of opinion.
.....................................................................................

Come in T9!
Your time is up!

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Guest on 06.11.13 16:34


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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by MarleneP on 06.11.13 16:35

@jeanmonroe wrote:RA – Why were you perplexed when the process was shelved?
MF I found that the CONTRADICTIONS by the people who had access to the McCann apartment were not explored sufficiently. It was a fundamental error not to isolate them, check who had access to the apartment and collect the data relating to their phone calls in order to clarify the DISCREPANCIES in their statements. If it had been done, we wouldn't be here, involved in a trial on freedom of opinion.
.....................................................................................

Come in T9!
Your time is up!
This Is The End     spit coffee

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by PeterMac on 06.11.13 16:36

Oh JOY
MF Because they should have considered all the possible hypotheses instead of restricting the investigation to the prefabricated idea of abduction.

SO protests’ arguing the issue is to consider the conclusions. He asks about the "death" theory.
MF says it is more likely that the child died. And he adds it is impossible that someone passed through the window with a child. He says the abduction theory then doesn't make sense. He observes that there are many possibilities, it's perfectly admissible for instance that the child went out to search for her parents. If the child died, it could have been outside of the flat or in the flat. But, he says, the disappearance never could have happened through the window, he insists that it is essential to understand that it is technically, humanly, impossible. The witness concludes affirming that all the hypotheses are possible, except for the abduction “through that window”.

The witness suggests that the case suffered carnival aspects and early errors, the biggest being not to have investigated the parents. Life shows us that there are parents who mistreat their children and this eventuality could not be properly discarded.

MF I found that the contradictions by the people who had access to the McCann apartment were not explored sufficiently. It was a fundamental error not to isolate them, check who had access to the apartment and collect the data relating to their phone calls in order to clarify the discrepancies in their statements. If it had been done, we wouldn't be here, involved in a trial on freedom of opinion.
Quite !
All hypotheses are possible EXCEPT the only one the McCanns and Carter-Ruck have permitted.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by jeanmonroe on 06.11.13 16:37

candyfloss wrote:Jean, I don't think this was yesterday, it was last month..........


http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8288-libel-trial-day-7-witness-francisco-moita-flores?highlight=moita+flores
OK.

Stiil, it's nice to HIGHLIGHT the 'contradictions and discrepancies' FOUND in the T9 statements.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Guest on 06.11.13 16:38

candyfloss wrote:Jean, I don't think this was yesterday, it was last month..........


http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8288-libel-trial-day-7-witness-francisco-moita-flores?highlight=moita+flores

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Guest on 06.11.13 16:42

@jeanmonroe wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Jean, I don't think this was yesterday, it was last month..........


http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8288-libel-trial-day-7-witness-francisco-moita-flores?highlight=moita+flores
OK.

Stiil, it's nice to HIGHLIGHT the 'contradictions and discrepancies' FOUND in the T9 statements.
This thread is for 5th November updates Jean. Can members post re Moita Flores witness statement, on link I have given.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by jeanmonroe on 06.11.13 16:42

@PeterMac wrote:Oh JOY
MF Because they should have considered all the possible hypotheses instead of restricting the investigation to the prefabricated idea of abduction.

SO protests’ arguing the issue is to consider the conclusions. He asks about the "death" theory.
MF says it is more likely that the child died. And he adds it is impossible that someone passed through the window with a child. He says the abduction theory then doesn't make sense. He observes that there are many possibilities, it's perfectly admissible for instance that the child went out to search for her parents. If the child died, it could have been outside of the flat or in the flat. But, he says, the disappearance never could have happened through the window, he insists that it is essential to understand that it is technically, humanly, impossible. The witness concludes affirming that all the hypotheses are possible, except for the abduction “through that window”.

The witness suggests that the case suffered carnival aspects and early errors, the biggest being not to have investigated the parents. Life shows us that there are parents who mistreat their children and this eventuality could not be properly discarded.

MF I found that the contradictions by the people who had access to the McCann apartment were not explored sufficiently. It was a fundamental error not to isolate them, check who had access to the apartment and collect the data relating to their phone calls in order to clarify the discrepancies in their statements. If it had been done, we wouldn't be here, involved in a trial on freedom of opinion.
Quite !
All hypotheses are possible EXCEPT the only one the McCanns and Carter-Ruck have permitted.
BUT the parents couldn't be 'investigated' early on because they were surrounded by all sorts of UK Government 'officials'

The first time they WERE 'investigated' by themselves they were instantly made Arguidos!

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by worriedmum on 06.11.13 16:48

@Cristobell wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I posted a comment on the Daily Mail this morning, it would have been the second, but it was WHOOSHED.  It wasn't even given the light of day. Not contentious, certainly no more than their article about the adorable cushion and its pin.  Anyway, comment or no comment, I commend the Daily Mail for it's reporting of the libel trial in Lisbon.
Same here Rooster, my factual, non libellous comment didn't appear either.

I have to say, that having seen the distinct lack of media coverage for the #MillionMaskMarch globally, my faith in the 'authorities' dwindles.  If all the television networks and newspapers throughout the world can boycott such a major event, the McCann case pales in comparison.  I hope I am wrong, but if I'm not, I'm buying a Guy Fawkes mask and marching next November 5th!
mine too!

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by ultimaThule on 06.11.13 17:01

This is from Astro - it's not particularly informative but will have to suffice until we can see a transcript of the day's testimony:



 
Hi from Lisbon! Very short trial session this morning, as Paulo Sargento excused himself because he got married recently. Mario Sena Lopes was questioned and explained (again) how many editions the book had, how much the book was sold for, etc.
 
So we ended up with a 4-hour lunch break. Paulo Sargento will appear at the trial session of the 27th, which is now looking like a mega-session, frankly. In the afternoon, two witnesses for the other defendants will be heard.
 
The afternoon session Two witnesses for Valentim de Carvalho. An endless discussion over the production, sales, watermarking of the DVD.
 
The only situation that is worth reporting today is that Rogério Alves made an appearance, right before the start of the session this morning. It was curious because he was there to take the opportunity to be heard by the few journalists that were present.

The journalists tried to get a comment from Gonçalo and his lawyer after the end of the morning session, but received none as both the lawyer and Gonçalo mentioned that the criminal case is under judicial secrecy. Confronted with the fact that Rogério Alves had given a comment, Gonçalo's lawyer reiterated the respect for judicial secrecy.

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Guest on 06.11.13 17:05

Mr Amaral pictured yesterday (I think), all smiles...................



sweetex @sweetexi 2h
Is it going well for Goncalo Amaral or is it going WELL? #McCann All smiles with the truth behind him! #booktrial pic.twitter.com/FvXy7uwwpz

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by noddy100 on 06.11.13 17:12

When I see things like this I am full of hope again. clapping

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by Daisy on 06.11.13 17:35

Just back to those Daily Mail comments for a mo "my friends" titter 

Pedro Silva, Lisbon, Portugal, 18 hours ago

no mr.amaral, you wrote the book to gain fame and fortune at the expenses of innocents.



642 Disagreed


121 Agreed


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“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

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Re: 5TH NOVEMBER TRIAL UPDATES - Please post here

Post by ultimaThule on 06.11.13 17:42

@Daisy wrote:Just back to those Daily Mail comments for a mo "my friends" titter 

Pedro Silva, Lisbon, Portugal, 18 hours ago

no mr.amaral, you wrote the book to gain fame and fortune at the expenses of innocents.



642 Disagreed


121 Agreed

Ah, the return of the famous Pedro Silva.  I've been wondering what's happened to him. 

But can this Pedro Silva of 'Lisbon, Portugal' be one and the same as the Pedro Silva of Rothley, Leicestershire?  I think we should be told. big grin

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