New Heights of insanity - Express
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: Smithman: Crimewatch Reconstruction and the appeal for new info / suspects
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Murat is a Tory isn't he?ChillyHeat wrote:Reports in the Portuguese press suggested that Murat had met Gerry whilst the latter was campaigning for the Labour Party. Murat denied this on 13 September, describing the reports as “absolutely ridiculous” and saying “I’ve never met the man before”.
Any truth to this ? Anyone seen any press reports on this claim ?
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Enjoyment of celebrity status is not of itself an indication of guilt. Suzy Lamplugh's mother seemed to relish the light of publicity. However, it is GMcC's body language which is really damning...Cristobell wrote:I agree, often feel as though I am playing the longest ever game of Cluedo! I think the terrible hurt and pain was part of the act, the real story was the success of the Fund and the daily photoshoots, the narcissistic duo were loving it.Jackie Regan wrote:Fair enough..but being Cocky is not something that you would feel follows the "Terrible hurt & Pain of not knowing what has happened to your own daughter"Cristobell wrote:When Gerry gave the 'no comment' reply to whether he knew Murat, I think he was just being cocky.
This case infuriates me..but still intrigues!!
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Five.ShuBob wrote:Four.nobodythereeither wrote:Three.Sockpuppet wrote:That makes two of us Châtelaine :)Châtelaine wrote:***Tony Bennett wrote:
We have all the deep suspicions about the reliability of the Smiths' evidence...
I beg to differ, Tony. I have not, so far ...
I find it hard to reasonably discredit the Smith's sighting..... but IF it was GM and he was carrying a deceased MM, I wonder why the dogs didn't alert to any of his clothes? [unless he got rid of them?]...
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
"I find it hard to reasonably discredit the Smith's sighting..... but IF it was GM and he was carrying a deceased MM, I wonder why the dogs didn't alert to any of his clothes? [unless he got rid of them?]..."
Well, that is one answer... he got rid of them...
My own opinion is that if this was GM carrying M, then it was to the beach, where he buried her body in the sand, somewhere out of the way, under cover of darkness, in a place which could easily be seen from the top of the cliff that GM and KM jogged to every day.
It's been pointed out by others that this is one effective way to mummify a body, rendering it dry, lighter, more transportable after a number of days.
If it was GM and it was M then and that's what happened, GM would have needed an accomplice - someone to provide a digging implement and a change of clothes.
It's also possible, if it was GM, that he wore the clothes back to the flat and they were thoroughly washed. Would this take the scent of cadaver out of them so that the dogs couldn't smell it? I don't know.
My other opinion, if this wasn't GM carrying M, is that it was a decoy. That it may have been GM carrying one of the other children, asleep, while someone else transported M in a bag.
All just opinions and theories, I know.
Oh, and just one more thing. My opinion of the Crimewatch show is that, because it was live, part of its purpose might have been to expose GM and KM to observation. Perhaps there were some unexpected surprises thrown at them during the broadcast. We saw them at the end, live. Kate couldn't take her eyes off GM. To me, her intense scrutiny of him, while he was talking, spoke volumes. She was watching him for clues as to what to say next. It was off-script. They were practically sitting on top of each other. They weren't relaxed at all.
Well, that is one answer... he got rid of them...
My own opinion is that if this was GM carrying M, then it was to the beach, where he buried her body in the sand, somewhere out of the way, under cover of darkness, in a place which could easily be seen from the top of the cliff that GM and KM jogged to every day.
It's been pointed out by others that this is one effective way to mummify a body, rendering it dry, lighter, more transportable after a number of days.
If it was GM and it was M then and that's what happened, GM would have needed an accomplice - someone to provide a digging implement and a change of clothes.
It's also possible, if it was GM, that he wore the clothes back to the flat and they were thoroughly washed. Would this take the scent of cadaver out of them so that the dogs couldn't smell it? I don't know.
My other opinion, if this wasn't GM carrying M, is that it was a decoy. That it may have been GM carrying one of the other children, asleep, while someone else transported M in a bag.
All just opinions and theories, I know.
Oh, and just one more thing. My opinion of the Crimewatch show is that, because it was live, part of its purpose might have been to expose GM and KM to observation. Perhaps there were some unexpected surprises thrown at them during the broadcast. We saw them at the end, live. Kate couldn't take her eyes off GM. To me, her intense scrutiny of him, while he was talking, spoke volumes. She was watching him for clues as to what to say next. It was off-script. They were practically sitting on top of each other. They weren't relaxed at all.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
@canada12
all very feasible. although I cant see GM faffing about in the sand in a panic, I think he could have placed her under an overturned boat or taken her to the Church....
I don't know why, but I feel strongly it could have been RO who the Smith's saw, and he was carrying his child [bares a striking resemblance to MM] who had been sick, he could have been heading to Luzdoc.... I think she was sedated with the same as MM and he was panicking and inducing sickness and trying to bring her round in the 'fresh air'.
all very feasible. although I cant see GM faffing about in the sand in a panic, I think he could have placed her under an overturned boat or taken her to the Church....
I don't know why, but I feel strongly it could have been RO who the Smith's saw, and he was carrying his child [bares a striking resemblance to MM] who had been sick, he could have been heading to Luzdoc.... I think she was sedated with the same as MM and he was panicking and inducing sickness and trying to bring her round in the 'fresh air'.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
I don't think he was carrying Madeleine. She had been dead for some time if we trust the dogs' alerts, and without wishing to sound morbid, wouldn't her skin have been mottled? Gerry must have been carrying one of the other children, perhaps to leave a false trail of some sort who knows? Were all the other kids safe and sound in their beds? Did anyone outside of the tapas group check on the other children?MoonGoddess wrote:Five.ShuBob wrote:Four.nobodythereeither wrote:Three.Sockpuppet wrote:That makes two of us Châtelaine :)Châtelaine wrote:***Tony Bennett wrote:
We have all the deep suspicions about the reliability of the Smiths' evidence...
I beg to differ, Tony. I have not, so far ...
I find it hard to reasonably discredit the Smith's sighting..... but IF it was GM and he was carrying a deceased MM, I wonder why the dogs didn't alert to any of his clothes? [unless he got rid of them?]...
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
I only know that the twins remained 'dead to the world' in their cots, and that the RO and JT's daughter had been sick earlier in the evening, I don't think it is written anywhere about the other's children.Cristobell wrote:I don't think he was carrying Madeleine. She had been dead for some time if we trust the dogs' alerts, and without wishing to sound morbid, wouldn't her skin have been mottled? Gerry must have been carrying one of the other children, perhaps to leave a false trail of some sort who knows? Were all the other kids safe and sound in their beds? Did anyone outside of the tapas group check on the other children?MoonGoddess wrote:Five.ShuBob wrote:Four.nobodythereeither wrote:Three.Sockpuppet wrote:That makes two of us Châtelaine :)Châtelaine wrote:***Tony Bennett wrote:
We have all the deep suspicions about the reliability of the Smiths' evidence...
I beg to differ, Tony. I have not, so far ...
I find it hard to reasonably discredit the Smith's sighting..... but IF it was GM and he was carrying a deceased MM, I wonder why the dogs didn't alert to any of his clothes? [unless he got rid of them?]...
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Not to help justice in her need would be an impiety ~Plato~
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
What a clever theory! Something I had not thought about before, but an explanation that would end this confusion. Much to ponder. Night, night.MoonGoddess wrote:@canada12
all very feasible. although I cant see GM faffing about in the sand in a panic, I think he could have placed her under an overturned boat or taken her to the Church....
I don't know why, but I feel strongly it could have been RO who the Smith's saw, and he was carrying his child [bares a striking resemblance to MM] who had been sick, he could have been heading to Luzdoc.... I think she was sedated with the same as MM and he was panicking and inducing sickness and trying to bring her round in the 'fresh air'.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
ETA @ Cristobel
not quite sure that GM would need a 'decoy' when he had JT's 'bundleman', and if he wanted to create a 'decoy', why supress it for 5 years?..... it all gets a bit complicated lol.... yes, time for bed night night
not quite sure that GM would need a 'decoy' when he had JT's 'bundleman', and if he wanted to create a 'decoy', why supress it for 5 years?..... it all gets a bit complicated lol.... yes, time for bed night night
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
I agree, and don't think Witness testimony is ever 100% reliable in criminal cases. The police have to have more than that to go by in insuring a solid conviction in a case, IMO.Tony Bennett wrote:We have all the deep suspicions about the reliability of the Smiths' evidence...StraightThinking wrote:The value they have is not so much in the identification of the man (though there was some clothing detail that may be relevant) but in the fact that he was carrying a child that some of the Smiths believe could have been MTony Bennett wrote:Honestly, what value do the Smiths' statements have?
Since nobody has come forward to say he was the man, there is a good chance that it was M
Even if there is no reliable witness description of him, the sighting itself potentially places M at that place at that time
And that is crucial information when integrated with the rest of the timeline
PLUS the fact that anyone who was abducting Madeleine would be mad to walk around the streets of a holiday village...
PLUS the remarkable fact that no-one else in 6.5 years has come forward to say that they remember seeing a man carrying a barefoot child in pink pyjamas at 10.00pm on a cold early May night.
It's not much to go on.
Is it?
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
I'm with you, Châtelaine, it's getting a bit arduous, and really no new insights. All the same old, we are haters and don't care for Madeleine. That coming from people who think it is OK to leave her alone, even after she cried her heart out, and asked "why didn't you come when we were crying".Châtelaine wrote:***bellum wrote:there are a lot of new people here. where are the usual ones?
Because the usual ones, me for instance, are getting a bit weary with the discussion ... ?
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
This is all press release stuffultimaThule wrote:On a point of information:
"The Metropolitan Police Service is conducting an Investigative Review into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann aged 3yrs on the 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz Portugal.
As I understand it, this 'investigative review' came about at the instigation of the PM and the Home Secretary following representations made by the McCanns and, some say, Rebekah Brooks.
There is no evidence to suggest Operation Grange is engaged in investigating crimes committed in the UK nor, since it has not been closed at any time, has it been re-opened.
If SY were to investigate the disappearance of M for that reason alone, they would have to do it for all other crimes committed abroad on UK residents
They are investigating M's disappearance but with respect to any possible crimes relevant to the UK
That's what they do
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Something caused SY to move from review to investigation. If that something wasn't the prospect of charges being brought where SY have jurisdiction - England - then what is it?StraightThinking wrote:This is all press release stuffultimaThule wrote:On a point of information:
"The Metropolitan Police Service is conducting an Investigative Review into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann aged 3yrs on the 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz Portugal.
As I understand it, this 'investigative review' came about at the instigation of the PM and the Home Secretary following representations made by the McCanns and, some say, Rebekah Brooks.
There is no evidence to suggest Operation Grange is engaged in investigating crimes committed in the UK nor, since it has not been closed at any time, has it been re-opened.
If SY were to investigate the disappearance of M for that reason alone, they would have to do it for all other crimes committed abroad on UK residents
They are investigating M's disappearance but with respect to any possible crimes relevant to the UK
That's what they do
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Haven't caught up on this thread yet, but...Tony Bennett wrote:Yes I will do this.littlepixie wrote:Susible, I hope Tony could send it to me too as I am really interested in this.
... me too, please, Tony.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
I will send you the document later today.Lance De Boils wrote:Haven't caught up on this thread yet, but...Tony Bennett wrote:Yes I will do this.littlepixie wrote:Susible, I hope Tony could send it to me too as I am really interested in this.
... me too, please, Tony.
Things have become more than a tad more interesting now that we know that Martin Smith is a former Unilever exective.
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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
If the Smiths had seen ROB, then surely the first word they would have all used to describe him is 'tall'.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
A mixture of Cluedo and Monopoly because money has always seemed to be the priority here.
P.S. Cristobell's earlier quote about this being like a lengthy game of Cluedo has disappeared from my post.
P.S. Cristobell's earlier quote about this being like a lengthy game of Cluedo has disappeared from my post.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
...thin and blond.Sockpuppet wrote:If the Smiths had seen ROB, then surely the first word they would have all used to describe him is 'tall'.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Yes, I do agree; I just wonder how the gradient of the hill might have affected their accuracy?Sockpuppet wrote:If the Smiths had seen ROB, then surely the first word they would have all used to describe him is 'tall'.
Had R O'B been pictured at all since 2007? I know he wasn't there when the Tapas crew were photographed after their damages award...
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
wonder why he went for a darker look less than a year later...bellum wrote:...thin and blond.Sockpuppet wrote:If the Smiths had seen ROB, then surely the first word they would have all used to describe him is 'tall'.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
short after the disappearance, Gerry left to the UK. He could hae brought those clothes back.
Or perhaps one of the Tapas brought them back. There was always the risk of stains.
There is also the possibility that the police did not tell everything because somehow they could have known that Kate was involved in the death and they needed to concentrate themselves on her.
Or perhaps one of the Tapas brought them back. There was always the risk of stains.
There is also the possibility that the police did not tell everything because somehow they could have known that Kate was involved in the death and they needed to concentrate themselves on her.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
What is odd about the efits is that they look as if they have been made with different software.Tony Bennett wrote:ChillyHeat, thank you for that article and your observations.
I'm sure you will have noticed, as perhaps a few others have done, that there is a mountain of vagueness and fog surrounding:
1. Who drew the e-fits?
2. When?, and
3. By speaking to whom? (I presume two different Smiths produced two different efits).
I for one am not prepared to take as gospel the words of Henri Exton to the Sunday Times on the efits.
The small chin one (1b) looks as if it's made with E-fit-V software (used by many police forces including Scotland Yard), but the big chin one (1a) is far more pixelated and has a different style imo. Now this is very peculiar if they were both made by one and the same organisation. This organisation would have used the same software for both surely.
I am just speculating here, but I wonder if the pixelated 1a efit was the original one made by Private Investigators, and 1b was made later by Scotland Yard using E-fit-V and some more
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Possibly following after the CPS visit to Portugal.AndyB wrote:Something caused SY to move from review to investigation. If that something wasn't the prospect of charges being brought where SY have jurisdiction - England - then what is it?StraightThinking wrote:This is all press release stuffultimaThule wrote:On a point of information:
"The Metropolitan Police Service is conducting an Investigative Review into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann aged 3yrs on the 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz Portugal.
As I understand it, this 'investigative review' came about at the instigation of the PM and the Home Secretary following representations made by the McCanns and, some say, Rebekah Brooks.
There is no evidence to suggest Operation Grange is engaged in investigating crimes committed in the UK nor, since it has not been closed at any time, has it been re-opened.
If SY were to investigate the disappearance of M for that reason alone, they would have to do it for all other crimes committed abroad on UK residents
They are investigating M's disappearance but with respect to any possible crimes relevant to the UK
That's what they do
Taken from CPS; Prosecution Policy and Guidance.
Resolving jurisdictional conflicts
Where the offence occurred on a single territory
Generally, an offence will only be triable in the jurisdiction in which the offence takes place, unless there is a specific provision to ground jurisdiction, for instance where specific statutes enable the UK to exercise extra-territorial jurisdiction:
- sexual offences against children (section 72 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003) A new section 72 was substituted by the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 which came into effect from 14 July 2008 onwards. It is important to ensure that any prosecution is brought under the provision in force at the time the alleged conduct occured as the terms of the substantive provisions and details of the offences they cover are not identical;
- murder and manslaughter (subsection 9 and 10 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861)
- fraud (the 2006 Act imposes extra territorial jurisdiction in respect od offences in subsection. 1, 6, 7, 9 and 11 of the Fraud Act 2006) and dishonesty (Criminal Justice Act 1993 Part 1 still applies to the remaining unrepealed sections of the Theft Act 1968);
- terrorism (subsection 59, 62-63 of the Terrorism Act 2000 and section 17 of the Terrorism Act 2006);
- bribery (The Bribery Act 2010 repeals the common law and the statutory offences of corruption for offences committed wholly on or after 1 July 2011. For those offences the Bribery Act imposes extra-territorial jurisdiction. Section 109 of the Anti-Terrorism and Security Act 2001 still applies to provide extre-territorial jurisdiction in respect of offences committed wholly or partially before 1 July 2011.
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Re: New Heights of insanity - Express
Indeed. Could I request a copy too please TonyTony Bennett wrote:I will send you the document later today.Lance De Boils wrote:Haven't caught up on this thread yet, but...Tony Bennett wrote:Yes I will do this.littlepixie wrote:Susible, I hope Tony could send it to me too as I am really interested in this.
... me too, please, Tony.
Things have become more than a tad more interesting now that we know that Martin Smith is a former Unilever exective.
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“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”
Unknown
“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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