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WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by jeanmonroe on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 9:59

Will ID turn up to court to represent 'clients' that have surpressed, for 5 years, 'possible evidence of an 'abductor'' that could have led to the arrest of a possible 'suspect' in the case of their 'missing' daughter.?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by garfy on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 10:01

@aquila wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:The papers have gone v. quiet on the McCann story. Does anyone else think that they might have been Carter-Rucked on Monday and are reviewing their position?
I doubt C-R would touch this one, even if TM had enough money. (Bear in mind C-R are a third of a million pounds DOWN after the TB fiasco - where he is paying them 14s/6d a month for the next thousand years)
Previously their case was about people saying there was no abduction.  And to deny that became, by implication, a statement that TM had lied, and therefore actionable.
But C-R had to admit, in the High Court and under oath, that they had no evidence of abduction, and climbed down except on the technical point of Breach of the Undertaking
There was no clear "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt", and therefore it was difficult to plead Truth as a defence.

Here the papers are saying that TM deliberately suppressed evidence and e-fits for 5 years, which might have been material to the "search" for Madeleine,
or more importantly to the investigation into the circumstances of what happened to her - which is not the same thing.
The "Fund" has provide the documentation, and no doubt there is a decent witness statement from Exton or Hagland or whoever about it.
So we are talking about the truth which must be accepted by TM, since it came from the documentation they had in their possession.
Truth is one of the big defences against an action for defamation.
It might only be 14/6 (fourteen shillings and sixpence) to Carter Ruck PeterMac but it's a hefty sum of around £120 - £130 per month to Tony Bennett and will take years to pay (and I'm ignoring all the other costs Tony took on the nose).

I just want to say that when Tony was on trial there were so many people thanking him for his efforts, supporting him for his courage and wittering on about the injustice of it all. Several people on the forum attended the hearings.

The fact remains that whether you agree with Tony or not he has been left with a hefty financial burden and I doubt whether many of those who egged him on and sent their posts of support have ever contributed in anyway to alleviate this cost.

It's ok to harp on about Tony being the only person not to be able to comment on the case in case of breaching contempt of court rules and maybe I'm of the old school 'put your money where your mouth is' but I just want to point out that a million pounds to some people is peanuts (the McCanns have had a Fund that's handled millions) and a monthly outgoing of £120 to others is a great deal.

I don't always agree with Tony (as is obvious from my posts) but I thoroughly dislike the way he was bullied and gagged.

If anyone is interested in supporting Tony there is a fund to assist him. It's called C.O.L.D. just type it in the search box.

Sorry if I've gone off topic here.
thank  you for that  ...auquila

its something  i have been thinking about  [how tony is coping ]i was one who so willed him on in his fight for justice for maddie ....yet i didn't suffer the consequences like tony ....[i have never been afraid to say what i think]

i admire what he did he was in a  position where he could do something with great impact .........and did at a great cost to himself...

i didn't know about the C.O.L.D..................thanks for that at least now  [i  can put some mony where  my mouth is as they say]

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by sami on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 10:02

@jeanmonroe wrote:Will ID turn up to court to represent 'clients' that have surpressed 'evidence' that could have led to the arrest of a possible 'suspect' in the case of their 'missing' daughter.?
When will the judge say whether or not the McCanns can give evidence ?  I cannot imagine how they are feeling about this now......the last place they want to go back to is Portugal.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Garrincha on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 10:35

(already posted on "PJ SEarch" thread, but I probably should have put it here)

Peter Mac wrote: “But the ST article has clearly been ready for a long time.”

but my reading of the sequence of events is that Oakley only contacted the ST Insight team after seeing the E-Fits being used on Crimewatch - or have I got this all wrong?

P.S. it also occurs to me that as SY had to get permission from the Fund to access the Oakley report, then none of the E-Fit “revelations” on CW would have been a surprise to the McCanns (or again, have I got this all wrong?)

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Woofer on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 11:00

@Garrincha wrote:(already posted on "PJ SEarch" thread, but I probably should have put it here)

Peter Mac wrote: “But the ST article has clearly been ready for a long time.”

but my reading of the sequence of events is that Oakley only contacted the ST Insight team after seeing the E-Fits being used on Crimewatch - or have I got this all wrong?

P.S. it also occurs to me that as SY had to get permission from the Fund to access the Oakley report, then none of the E-Fit “revelations” on CW would have been a surprise to the McCanns (or again, have I got this all wrong?)
I was going to say the same thing Garrincha.  The ST article came out on 27th Oct, was probably being written up and approved by Editors and lawyers during the week before, so could have been written around the 20th.  They also say "Exton confirmed last week" and as the CW programme was on the 14th, that makes things about right.  But as the Insight Team are undercover journalists who don`t seem afraid of uncovering seedy goings-on, they may have more information, which I hope will eventually be published.

I must say that this team and ST were sued some months back by the Tory party treasurer for libel after their undercover operation to expose his seedy dealings, but the Tory bloke won against them and was awarded £180,000.  So they might be a bit more wary about what they print now.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by jeanmonroe on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 11:00

Garrincha wrote:
"then none of the E-Fit “revelations” on CW would have been a surprise to the McCanns (or again, have I got this all wrong?)"
..........................................................................................

You haven't got it wrong.

NONE of the E-Fits would have been 'a surprise' to McCanns on CW.

THEY had 'surpressed' them, themselves, for at least 5 YEARS!

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by possumsall on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 11:02

Interesting updates on the McCanns - tending to be pro-GM/K/M/TM

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Current+Affairs/Crime/Notorious+Cases/Madeleine+McCann

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by tiny on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 11:02

@jeanmonroe wrote:Garrincha wrote:
"then none of the E-Fit “revelations” on CW would have been a surprise to the McCanns (or again, have I got this all wrong?)"
..........................................................................................

You haven't got it wrong.

NONE of the E-Fits would have been 'a surprise' to McCanns on CW.

THEY had 'surpressed' them themselves for at least 5 YEARS!
No they wouldn't have been a surprise to the mccanns BUT perhaps they didn't expect them to been shown on cw

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by joyce1938 on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 12:00

yes I too agree ,it was nosurprise ,because permission had to be sought from them macs before it could be accepted to reveal said info.  joyce1938

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by suzyjohnson on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 14:34

@Garrincha wrote:
Peter Mac wrote: “But the ST article has clearly been ready for a long time.”

but my reading of the sequence of events is that Oakley only contacted the ST Insight team after seeing the E-Fits being used on Crimewatch - or have I got this all wrong?

P.S. it also occurs to me that as SY had to get permission from the Fund to access the Oakley report, then none of the E-Fit “revelations” on CW would have been a surprise to the McCanns (or again, have I got this all wrong?)
You haven't necessarily got it all wrong but there are several possibilities.

I doubt Exton would have contacted the Sunday Times at all without reassurance from the police that he wasn't going to be sued, after all he had kept the report to himself for 5 years for that very reason. So, it's more probable that the Sunday Times were authorised to see the report and that they were the ones who contacted Exton about it. 

At some point in the last couple of years SY have asked the Fund for a copy of this report. (How about that unhappy picture of the pair in May, looking as though something had gone very wrong indeed?) Since SY took over the investigation there is very little the McCanns can do except comply with SY requests. 

The McCanns didn't necessarily expect Smithman to take centre stage on a Crimewatch programme though, and for Tannerman to be completely discounted at the same time. 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-2319228-199CAA4F000005DC-105_634x581.jpg

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Garrincha on Wed 30 Oct 2013 - 14:50

Sorry didn't do this earlier - just want to say thanks for your thoughts & comments

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Wag the dog

Post by SeeIyay on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 7:39

nah  Sunday is a crucial day. If the Insight team publish more from the spooks files then a tsunami of momentum kicks in against the Team McC. Is this sketchy 'tractor man' story a spoiler for Sunday? Is it designed to make any Insight story seem out of date in the light of 'new developments.' If I was Team McC who. let's face it includes the Met, this is the way I'd go if I knew there was a new story likely to come out in a credible National Sunday. The trick would be to age the allegations before they appear ie any anti McC revelations about suppression from years ago would look a. out of date and b. irrelevent because tractor man is the real perp and sadly he is deadnow. Damage control, distraction there are ways to Wag the Dog. Watch the Sunday Times to see if they run a story. It's the only threat to the home team right now and maybe they know it.  The way to counter allegations is NOT to deny them but to 'age' them.  When the ST comes back with a story about more inconsistencies then the counter is 'in the light of what we know now: that a dead Portugese boogeyman was the real perp these allegations about the McC's look frankly irrelevent and spiteful...'

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Praiaaa on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 7:44

Seelyay, sadly I think you are absolutely spot-on. TM trolls imo have managed to get the Mumsnet thread derailed so it has now been pulled, so the damage limitation operation is well under way.

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An interesting quote from an unconnected case

Post by PeterMac on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 8:18

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/30/four-plead-guilty-conspiracy-phone-hacking

The notebooks had never been found. "We will never know what they contained because they have gone. That is a classic perversion of the course of justice."
That same month, he said, XXXXX, her husband and her head of security had conspired to remove computers and other records from the Brooks' two homes to prevent police finding them.
This had been "a complicated little operation" which had been discovered by police "as a result of an accident that was rather bad luck for those involved".
XXXX also denies perverting the course of justice by destroying notebooks and concealing computers from the police inquiry. Her husband, YYYY, ZZZZ and her head of security, MMMMM, deny assisting her to destroy or conceal evidence.
Crown counsel Andrew Edis QC - Destroying and CONCEALING evidence = Classic perversion of the Course of Justice.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by StraightThinking on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 8:19

If you do an internet news search (any of the main sites) for last Sunday's ST article and the one from the Telegraph on Monday, nothing now appears

Earlier this week they were right at the top of the search results

The only version that can still be found in news results is the one from The Australian

And the Daily Mail watered down rehash is still in the list

Yet the original articles are still on the ST and Telegraph websites

Why has this story been buried by the world's major search engines? And can an IT expert tell me how this could be done?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Guest on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 11:00

When I google: Sunday Times McCann I get a link straight to last Sunday's article ...

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by StraightThinking on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:05

That's interesting

But if you leave out Sunday Times and enter, say, "mccann oakley fund"

The DM and Aus articles appear, but ST and Tele are nowhere to be seen

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Guest on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:17

that's strange. But then again, when googling just mccann hidden the Sunday Times link appears as nr. 2 [on a total result of 3-4 million hits in 0,19 seconds]. It seems that using oakley is the spammer in the works

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Sockpuppet on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:20

@StraightThinking wrote:That's interesting

But if you leave out Sunday Times and enter, say, "mccann oakley fund"

The DM and Aus articles appear, but ST and Tele are nowhere to be seen
Yes, but you are making the mistake of assuming that the article you are interested is the most relevant result.  There are many pages of relevance that contain the keywords "mccann", "oakley" and "fund".

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by jozi on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:31

@joyce1938 wrote:yes I too agree ,it was nosurprise ,because permission had to be sought from them macs before it could be accepted to reveal said info.  joyce1938
How does that work joyce ? If its a police investigation (that the Mcs wanted, wink,wink ) why should the police have to get permission to look into the evidence, that would be called withholding evidence, wouldn't it ?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by StraightThinking on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:33

@Sockpuppet wrote:
@StraightThinking wrote:That's interesting

But if you leave out Sunday Times and enter, say, "mccann oakley fund"

The DM and Aus articles appear, but ST and Tele are nowhere to be seen
Yes, but you are making the mistake of assuming that the article you are interested is the most relevant result.  There are many pages of relevance that contain the keywords "mccann", "oakley" and "fund".
Not if you look for news rather than just a general search - this restricts the list to recent days only

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Sockpuppet on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:37

@StraightThinking wrote:
@Sockpuppet wrote:
@StraightThinking wrote:That's interesting

But if you leave out Sunday Times and enter, say, "mccann oakley fund"

The DM and Aus articles appear, but ST and Tele are nowhere to be seen
Yes, but you are making the mistake of assuming that the article you are interested is the most relevant result.  There are many pages of relevance that contain the keywords "mccann", "oakley" and "fund".
Not if you look for news rather than just a general search - this restricts the list to recent days only
I would imagine that it's because the ST article is behind a pay-wall.  Go to the 'teaser' page, you'll find that 'Oakley' is not there.  That's your reason.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by StraightThinking on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 12:44

Yes that's it sockpuppet, thanks also to Chatelaine for spotting that Oakley was the issue... nothing dodgy

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by joyce1938 on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 13:52

Hi jozi, the way it reads to me is that the FORUM REPRESENTS THE MACS .THEY COULD NOT BE RELEASE I DONT BELIEVE WITHOUT  THEIR PERMISSION . BECAUSE THEY payed the company that had the info and the company had been threatened lawyers if they did reveale it ,so without permission from THE FUND so called could have been a problem . not sure if this is a good answer ,but that's how I have read it . joyce1938

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Mullered on Thu 31 Oct 2013 - 13:58

@aquila wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:The papers have gone v. quiet on the McCann story. Does anyone else think that they might have been Carter-Rucked on Monday and are reviewing their position?
I doubt C-R would touch this one, even if TM had enough money. (Bear in mind C-R are a third of a million pounds DOWN after the TB fiasco - where he is paying them 14s/6d a month for the next thousand years)
Previously their case was about people saying there was no abduction.  And to deny that became, by implication, a statement that TM had lied, and therefore actionable.
But C-R had to admit, in the High Court and under oath, that they had no evidence of abduction, and climbed down except on the technical point of Breach of the Undertaking
There was no clear "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt", and therefore it was difficult to plead Truth as a defence.

Here the papers are saying that TM deliberately suppressed evidence and e-fits for 5 years, which might have been material to the "search" for Madeleine,
or more importantly to the investigation into the circumstances of what happened to her - which is not the same thing.
The "Fund" has provide the documentation, and no doubt there is a decent witness statement from Exton or Hagland or whoever about it.
So we are talking about the truth which must be accepted by TM, since it came from the documentation they had in their possession.
Truth is one of the big defences against an action for defamation.
It might only be 14/6 (fourteen shillings and sixpence) to Carter Ruck PeterMac but it's a hefty sum of around £120 - £130 per month to Tony Bennett and will take years to pay (and I'm ignoring all the other costs Tony took on the nose).

I just want to say that when Tony was on trial there were so many people thanking him for his efforts, supporting him for his courage and wittering on about the injustice of it all. Several people on the forum attended the hearings.

The fact remains that whether you agree with Tony or not he has been left with a hefty financial burden and I doubt whether many of those who egged him on and sent their posts of support have ever contributed in anyway to alleviate this cost.

It's ok to harp on about Tony being the only person not to be able to comment on the case in case of breaching contempt of court rules and maybe I'm of the old school 'put your money where your mouth is' but I just want to point out that a million pounds to some people is peanuts (the McCanns have had a Fund that's handled millions) and a monthly outgoing of £120 to others is a great deal.

I don't always agree with Tony (as is obvious from my posts) but I thoroughly dislike the way he was bullied and gagged.

If anyone is interested in supporting Tony there is a fund to assist him. It's called C.O.L.D. just type it in the search box.

Sorry if I've gone off topic here.
This

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