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WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by Angelique on 01.11.13 10:41

@mouse wrote:It wouldn't surprise me one bit - that we will be told that the civil case is being adjourned/deferred to a later date. Perhaps this time for both sides to get their arguments in order in light of recent developments, particularly for GA's Lawyer - what he said regarding the suppression of info by Mccanns. Either that, or someone on TM won't be able to make it due to illness. I do wonder if Isabel will be there this time? 

Or of course, TM could just suddenly settle. Again in light of what has happened - I can't see a win for TM.  Let's face it -we've heard very little of the trial since it took a bad turn for the Mccanns - so a quiet settlement with some supersonic spin on it whilst all the stories of so-called dead abductors take the headlines would be the TM style we've kinda gotten used to....

And aren't they due to do their Euro tour soon....
I agree I think they (TM) will try and drag this out for as long as possible, adjournment whatever. Everything they do has a purpose and I think each manipulation they try has several 'arms' and will have several ways to influence the outcome for their benefit.  The trouble is we don't know until they happen and what effect they cause. 

I just hope that GA does realise what they are capable of.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by jeanmonroe on 01.11.13 10:57

@Angelique wrote:
@mouse wrote:It wouldn't surprise me one bit - that we will be told that the civil case is being adjourned/deferred to a later date. Perhaps this time for both sides to get their arguments in order in light of recent developments, particularly for GA's Lawyer - what he said regarding the suppression of info by Mccanns. Either that, or someone on TM won't be able to make it due to illness. I do wonder if Isabel will be there this time? 

Or of course, TM could just suddenly settle. Again in light of what has happened - I can't see a win for TM.  Let's face it -we've heard very little of the trial since it took a bad turn for the Mccanns - so a quiet settlement with some supersonic spin on it whilst all the stories of so-called dead abductors take the headlines would be the TM style we've kinda gotten used to....

And aren't they due to do their Euro tour soon....
I agree I think they (TM) will try and drag this out for as long as possible, adjournment whatever. Everything they do has a purpose and I think each manipulation they try has several 'arms' and will have several ways to influence the outcome for their benefit.  The trouble is we don't know until they happen and what effect they cause. 

I just hope that GA does realise what they are capable of.
He KNOWS, and THEY KNOW that he knows exactly what they are capable of!

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by Miraflores on 01.11.13 11:02

Let's face it -we've heard very little of the trial since it took a bad turn for the Mccanns - so a quiet settlement with some supersonic spin on it whilst all the stories of so-called dead abductors take the headlines would be the TM style we've kinda gotten used to....
But a wonderful opportunity for them to appeal for funds from a gullible public, if they lose the case and are expected to pay costs.
Presumably Amaral would have to launch a counter-claim against them to get damages?

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by jeanmonroe on 01.11.13 11:17

Mr Amaral said he was surprised at Kate's claim that she was writing her book "to give an account of the truth."

"It is strange to hear the word 'truth' from the mouth of someone who didn't cooperate with the police when the investigation was open," he said.
...............................................................................................................................
"I just hope that GA does realise what they are capable of."
...................................................................

Oh YES! As i said, He KNOWS, and THEY KNOW that he knows exactly what they are capable of!

And 'jeopardising the investigation', by KM into HER daughter's 'disappearance' is just one example!

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by gbwales on 01.11.13 11:18

1) They can't settle unless GA and his team agree to a settlement. Why would he???

2) The Fund would have trouble justifying being used for court costs / damages when it's supposed to all be about the search. We know mention has been made before about lawyers but up to now the public has basically been led to believe they're funding a search.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by mouse on 01.11.13 11:53

@gbwales wrote:1) They can't settle unless GA and his team agree to a settlement. Why would he???

2) The Fund would have trouble justifying being used for court costs / damages when it's supposed to all be about the search. We know mention has been made before about lawyers but up to now the public has basically been led to believe they're funding a search.
When I said - theTM could just settle - I did mean totally in GA's favour - drop the libel suit. I don't for one minute think that they would come to agree a settlement with GA - he's already refused one, and he's come this far, he's not about to settle now. 

Though I'm sure, in the background, there's still huge pressure being applied to him and it is probably at its highest level right now. So much admiration to him, and to his lawyer too. I wonder how many others would have taken up his case against this mighty wall of spin.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by haroldd on 01.11.13 12:01

@mouse wrote:Or of course, TM could just suddenly settle. Again in light of what has happened - I can't see a win for TM.
In England, if either side refuses an offer to settle and then wins the case, but with an award that's smaller than the amount offered, or if they lose, then they usually get the other side's costs awarded against them.

The (enforced) assumption is that civil parties (rather like lawyers) are only in it for money (albeit in the case of claimants, in compensation for the tort they've suffered), not justice (i.e. in the case of either side, not only compensation for any loss, whether in legal costs or in reputational damage, but also a public statement by the court that they are in the right). If TM drop the case then GA has not libelled them, or caused any tortious damage to their reputation, but what exactly GA might be able to say about that might be subject to conditions in a settlement. The law is more a racket than a circus.

If this case had been in England, GA might have been advised to countersue.

My line of thought here is that if TM say to GA "we'll drop the case if you pay us 1 euro, and we'll also pay your costs, so long as we agree not to publicise the amounts involved or that we've paid your costs", what does GA then do? Is this going to be a case to add to the several famous cases where someone has sued for libel, lost, and watched everything crash down around their ears, or have TM got some more resources they can rely on? Not that I think TM will get a verdict in their favour, which seems extremely unlikely.

What usually happens in civil cases in Portugal?

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by gbwales on 01.11.13 12:01

@mouse wrote:
Though I'm sure, in the background, there's still huge pressure being applied to him and it is probably at its highest level right now. So much admiration to him, and to his lawyer too. I wonder how many others would have taken up his case against this mighty wall of spin.
Agreed! Seriously impressive guy :)

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by mouse on 01.11.13 12:15

@haroldd wrote:
@mouse wrote:Or of course, TM could just suddenly settle. Again in light of what has happened - I can't see a win for TM.
In England, if either side refuses an offer to settle and then wins the case, but with an award that's smaller than the amount offered, or if they lose, then they usually get the other side's costs awarded against them.

The (enforced) assumption is that civil defendants (rather like lawyers) are only in it for money (albeit in compensation for the tort they've suffered), not justice (i.e. not only compensation but also a public statement by the court that they are in the right).

If this case had been in England, GA might have been advised to countersue.

My line of thought here is that if TM say to GA "we'll drop the case if you pay us 1 euro, and we'll also pay your costs, so long as we agree not to publicise the amounts involved or that we've paid your costs", what does GA then do? Is this going to be a case to add to the several famous cases where someone has sued for libel, lost, and watched everything crash down around their ears, or have TM got some more resources they can rely on? Not that I think TM will get a verdict in their favour, which seems extremely unlikely.

What usually happens in civil cases in Portugal?
I don't think that GA will agree to any strict conditions (gagging orders) put to him on them dropping the case. Though he might agree to them not publishing figures involved, because he is an honourable man. I think he might also be considering counter sueing - didn't his lawyer say something about this in his last statement. But then again, how much longer does he want this to go on for? I think he will probably be more interested in getting his book and latest book (his point of view rather than TM's) out there - being read by a wider audience. Preferably in the UK and USA. And hopefully getting some brave journo here in the UK, possibly ST, to print his side of the story for once!

When you counter sue - is this quite quick in the UK, do you know?

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by haroldd on 01.11.13 12:25

@mouse wrote:When you counter sue - is this quite quick in the UK, do you know?
The usual rule in England under the Civil Procedure Rules is that you have to serve any counterclaim within 28 days of receiving the claim form, i.e. by the same date by which you have to serve your defence. It's part of the same document. If you want to serve it later, you need the court's permission.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by aquila on 01.11.13 12:26

I must have missed something here. The Amaral libel case is in Portugal. UK, (or as some prefer to call it 'England') has nothing to do with what's happening in Portugal.

How many libel suits can be brought about! Madeleine's name ought only now to be mentioned in a Criminal Court.

It's despicable.

Follow the money. Look at how many people have made money from the disappearance of Madeleine. Look at how the media have made money, look at how certain charities have made money. Look at how each time Madeleine's name is mentioned shedloads of money is guaranteed as long as things are produced in a 'positive' way.

Look at how the Fund has made money and yet still doesn't relinquish its grip on pleading for donations.

I could go on but I'm sick of the whole cover up.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by haroldd on 01.11.13 12:38

@aquila wrote:I must have missed something here. The Amaral libel case is in Portugal. UK, (or as some prefer to call it 'England') has nothing to do with what's happening in Portugal.
I was just wondering whether some specific considerations which would arise in England (i.e. the English jurisdiction, meaning England and Wales - apologies for the shorthand, but this is not the UK) would arise in Portugal. They might.
@aquila wrote:Follow the money.
Exactly.
@aquila wrote:Look at how many people have made money from the disappearance of Madeleine. Look at how the media have made money, look at how certain charities have made money. Look at how each time Madeleine's name is mentioned shedloads of money is guaranteed as long as things are produced in a 'positive' way.
Look at how the Fund has made money and yet still doesn't relinquish its grip on pleading for donations.
I could go on but I'm sick of the whole cover up.
I think far more influence has been wielded to support the McCanns than can be accounted for by money in the Fund. Goodness knows what influence might still be brought to bear on GA.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by aquila on 01.11.13 12:38

@haroldd wrote:
@mouse wrote:When you counter sue - is this quite quick in the UK, do you know?
The usual rule in England under the Civil Procedure Rules is that you have to serve any counterclaim within 28 days of receiving the claim form, i.e. by the same date by which you have to serve your defence. It's part of the same document. If you want to serve it later, you need the court's permission.
@haroldd....don't know if you've noticed but this is a civil action in Portugal....why not research what happens in Portuguese civil law instead of quoting 'English' law. It would be tickety boo if you could do that.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by mouse on 01.11.13 12:49

@aquila wrote:
@haroldd wrote:
@mouse wrote:When you counter sue - is this quite quick in the UK, do you know?
The usual rule in England under the Civil Procedure Rules is that you have to serve any counterclaim within 28 days of receiving the claim form, i.e. by the same date by which you have to serve your defence. It's part of the same document. If you want to serve it later, you need the court's permission.
@haroldd....don't know if you've noticed but this is a civil action in Portugal....why not research what happens in Portuguese civil law instead of quoting 'English' law. It would be tickety boo if you could do that.
aquila - I was only asking what happened here - because haroldd came across as someone who knew more about the law than I did. Of course the civil action is happening in Portugal, but I was wondering how long these things take here in England -basically if countersueing runs on directly after, or if you have to wait to start proceedings all over again. I don't know what they do in Portugal, and perhaps I'll look it up when I get a chance, or someone on here with more knowledge might let me know.

Either way, I can't see Team Mccann winning this - it appears impossible, they'll prob try and stretch it out a bit longer - but I only see one endgame. And then - who knows countersueing may be an option for GA

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by aquila on 01.11.13 12:55

@mouse wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@haroldd wrote:
@mouse wrote:When you counter sue - is this quite quick in the UK, do you know?
The usual rule in England under the Civil Procedure Rules is that you have to serve any counterclaim within 28 days of receiving the claim form, i.e. by the same date by which you have to serve your defence. It's part of the same document. If you want to serve it later, you need the court's permission.
@haroldd....don't know if you've noticed but this is a civil action in Portugal....why not research what happens in Portuguese civil law instead of quoting 'English' law. It would be tickety boo if you could do that.
aquila - I was only asking what happened here - because haroldd came across as someone who knew more about the law than I did. Of course the civil action is happening in Portugal, but I was wondering how long these things take here in England -basically if countersueing runs on directly after, or if you have to wait to start proceedings all over again. I don't know what they do in Portugal, and perhaps I'll look it up when I get a chance, or someone on here with more knowledge might let me know.

Either way, I can't see Team Mccann winning this - it appears impossible, they'll prob try and stretch it out a bit longer - but I only see one endgame. And then - who knows countersueing may be an option for GA
Why does haroldd come across as knowing more about the law than anyone else on this forum? Why do you believe that? Why is it useful to compare Portuguese law (and we're only speaking of civil law here) to UK?

I don't understand and I think it serves no purpose other than to muddy waters but that's just my opinion.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by Miraflores on 01.11.13 13:04

I think far more influence has been wielded to support the McCanns than can be accounted for by money in the Fund.
And yet there are still plenty of people who think they have been unfairly maligned by the press.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by jeanmonroe on 01.11.13 13:19

I cannot see them NOT turning up next week.

When you have TWO people that have a Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)        ((is a personality disorder in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.))

IN MY OPINION, you'll understand.

She is NOT going to miss getting herself pictured in the papers.
He is NOT going to miss being pictured in the papers smiling smugly.

Remember the last time?

Ma Healy and Trish Cameron shuffled off straight into court!

'Egoman' headed 'straight for the cameras'!

I think they will defo be there.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by pennylane on 01.11.13 13:23

Can Kate give a bs 'victim' speech, without any cross examination?

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by mouse on 01.11.13 13:53

@pennylane wrote:Can Kate give a bs 'victim' speech, without any cross examination?
I doubt it very much

And they didn't much like some of the press Confs. they had in Europe. Was it the German one, or Dutch....Where they asked some difficult questions. I think TM prefer our media, or at least they have up until recently.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by Mirage on 01.11.13 13:58

@jeanmonroe wrote:I cannot see them NOT turning up next week.

When you have TWO people that have a Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)        ((is a personality disorder in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.))

IN MY OPINION, you'll understand.

She is NOT going to miss getting herself pictured in the papers.
He is NOT going to miss being pictured in the papers smiling smugly.

Remember the last time?

Ma Healy and Trish Cameron shuffled off straight into court!

'Egoman' headed 'straight for the cameras'!

I think they will defo be there.
Like a moth to a flame.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by pennylane on 01.11.13 15:02

@mouse wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Can Kate give a bs 'victim' speech, without any cross examination?
I doubt it very much

And they didn't much like some of the press Confs. they had in Europe. Was it the German one, or Dutch....Where they asked some difficult questions. I think TM prefer our media, or at least they have up until recently.
Thanks mouse x

As you say, this won't be anything like the touchy-feely questions they've come to know and love on their home turf.  I don't think Kate or Gerry will risk cross-examination under oath. They will probably make some demand on the courts that they know will be refused, and then pinky will do his usual bare faced lying with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.

I think they will turn up, however, because they are control freaks... well they have to be under the perilous circumstances don't they?

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by mouse on 01.11.13 15:17

@pennylane wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Can Kate give a bs 'victim' speech, without any cross examination?
I doubt it very much

And they didn't much like some of the press Confs. they had in Europe. Was it the German one, or Dutch....Where they asked some difficult questions. I think TM prefer our media, or at least they have up until recently.
Thanks mouse x

As you say, this won't be anything like the touchy-feely questions they've come to know and love on their home turf.  I don't think Kate or Gerry will risk cross-examination under oath. They will probably make some demand on the courts that they know will be refused, and then pinky will do his usual bare faced lying with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.

I think they will turn up, however, because they are control freaks... well they have to be under the perilous circumstances don't they?
Yep - I'm with you on this pennylane 

There is no doubt they love the media, but only, it seems, when they are winning. Like when they won the first case against Mr Amaral's book - they were quite happy to face the media (though it didn't go to plan for them and they might have learnt a little from this) but when GA appealed and it was overturned - tumbleweed....(I believe this to be correct, although someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't remember many articles about the books being asked to be returned, GA winning. It's a bit like some managers after a footie game when their team doesn't win - they push out their coach (in MC's case Clarrie) or second in command. But when they've won it's a whole different ball game. 

And for Gerry - when he's winning, or campaigning with his celeb/acting luvie pals (Hacked off)...His arrogance appears to know no bounds.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by pennylane on 01.11.13 16:08

@mouse wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Can Kate give a bs 'victim' speech, without any cross examination?
I doubt it very much

And they didn't much like some of the press Confs. they had in Europe. Was it the German one, or Dutch....Where they asked some difficult questions. I think TM prefer our media, or at least they have up until recently.
Thanks mouse x

As you say, this won't be anything like the touchy-feely questions they've come to know and love on their home turf.  I don't think Kate or Gerry will risk cross-examination under oath. They will probably make some demand on the courts that they know will be refused, and then pinky will do his usual bare faced lying with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.

I think they will turn up, however, because they are control freaks... well they have to be under the perilous circumstances don't they?
Yep - I'm with you on this pennylane 

There is no doubt they love the media, but only, it seems, when they are winning. Like when they won the first case against Mr Amaral's book - they were quite happy to face the media (though it didn't go to plan for them and they might have learnt a little from this) but when GA appealed and it was overturned - tumbleweed....(I believe this to be correct, although someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't remember many articles about the books being asked to be returned, GA winning. It's a bit like some managers after a footie game when their team doesn't win - they push out their coach (in MC's case Clarrie) or second in command. But when they've won it's a whole different ball game. 

And for Gerry - when he's winning, or campaigning with his celeb/acting luvie pals (Hacked off)...His arrogance appears to know no bounds.
They've certainly been outed a few times on foreign soil, hence their spin man's xenophobic rants to try and reverse the animosity.   Rather a double edged sword though I fear.big grin 

Yes Gerry's mega-arrogant, and a consummate liar.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by Spook on 01.11.13 16:42

They have both applied to the Judge in the case to be heard. If the Judge is on the ball, and watching her performance so far suggests that she IS, she will grant the McCanns the opportunity to speak in court (Dr Amaral too, of course).

It will speak volumes if they back away from that opportunity. How can they now say "Err.... no thanks, we have changed our minds, thank you very much"?

With the latest revelations coming out of the Crimewatch programme regarding them not only supressing the eFits, but actually threatening the PI's with legal action should they disclose their report, they have IMO an unwinnable case. The only persons to have damaged the search for Madeleine is themselves.

We now watch and see what Dr Amaral does next.

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Re: WILL THE MCCANNS TURN UP IN PORTUGAL NEXT WEEK?

Post by pennylane on 01.11.13 17:11

@Spook wrote:They have both applied to the Judge in the case to be heard. If the Judge is on the ball, and watching her performance so far suggests that she IS, she will grant the McCanns the opportunity to speak in court (Dr Amaral too, of course).

It will speak volumes if they back away from that opportunity. How can they now say "Err.... no thanks, we have changed our minds, thank you very much"?

With the latest revelations coming out of the Crimewatch programme regarding them not only supressing the eFits, but actually threatening the PI's with legal action should they disclose their report, they have IMO an unwinnable case. The only persons to have damaged the search for Madeleine is themselves.

We now watch and see what Dr Amaral does next.

Spook
They have indeed both applied to be heard, but have they made additional requests that they know the judge will deny them? They can then spin the news as if they were denied the opportunity to speak.  I just don't trust anything they say or do as being based in fact.

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