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Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Mirage on 26.10.13 10:37

Open Mind expressed the way I feel. Particularly in reference to children and grandchildren. Whilst some of us may lament not doing more with our lives, we sometimes overlook the most important job we have. And that is to strive to leave the world in a better state than the one in which we found it. In any case, not worse.

 Disheartened at times? Yes. But unable to let go because a huge spotlight needs to be turned on this blatant tissue of lies.

We all know that something is fundamentally wrong with the story we are fed. Personally, I would go so far as to say there is the stench of evil about it. You do not have to be a detective to know this.

As John Stalker once observed, a big secret lies at the core of this.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Joss on 26.10.13 10:41

@Truthandjustice wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@Truthandjustice wrote:
@Hicks wrote:Well I just don't get it!
Now the McCann's are going to apply for prosecutor status which means that they get to see all Portuguese files and be kept in the loop as it were.
According to the mail the Portuguese police finally admit that the McCann's are no longer suspects.
What is going on??
The Portuguese police are not talking to the press, there is judicial secrecy covering this investigation.  The only person talking to the press is the McLawyer. That's what is going on.
Would their Portuguese lawyer lie by saying that, "the couple were told in a police briefing last week in Lisbon, new lines of the enquiry which have led to the reopening the investigation in Portugal, absolve them of any responsibility?
This is what he actually said "The family was informed that the new evidence does not, in any way, point to the responsibility of the parents".  So the 'new' evidence is not pointing at them, however there is plenty of old evidence that still does, and there will probably be plenty of new evidence to be had in the reconstruction which may well point in their direction. The way he presents information has to be in the Mcs favour, he is being paid by them!
Makes sense, i think that is probably exactly what he is doing.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by susible on 26.10.13 10:41

@tiredofthebs wrote:
@Sockpuppet wrote:Saying that Maddy may be alive is just a statement of fact.  It just means that no body has been found yet, nothing more.

I firmly believe that the McCanns will be held accountable for the disappearance of their daughter, and I'm very happy to be posting in this highly optimistic thread! :)
No, saying that Maddy may be alive is a despicable, evil lie. We know she is dead. There was no abduction and the cadaver dog smelled her corpse.

Those are the facts.
No, the cadaver dog smelled traces of A corpse, there is no proof that it was Madeleine, that's why the dogs evidence is inadmissible in court.  Yes, we know that apparently no one else died in the apartment and Madeleine went missing, never to be seen again from that apartment ergo it was Madeleine's corpse that the dog smelled, but like I say there is no proof it was her.

I also feel that your use of the words despicable and evil to describe the possibility that a missing child is still alive to be quite disturbing and is exactly the type of thing that the pro trolls jump on to make us look like haters who would actually prefer Madeleine to be dead.  And whilst most of us know that the possibility of her still being alive is remote, I think we would all hope that there was a chance that we were wrong.

Finally Lance started this thread as a thread of hope and all you have done is posted negative after negative, yes you're entitled to your opinion, but this thread was aimed specifically at looking at the positives.  Maybe you should start your own thread on why you think it will be a whitewash, then those of us who are fed up reading highly speculative, negative posts can just avoid it.

Back on topic, thanks Lance for this thread, I too remain positive and am not concerned about what the MSM says, because they are known for spouting lies and rubbish so why would they change now.

I also have great faith in both investigations as I personally have never believed in any conspiracy, protection or cover up theory and the bottom line is that there is just no need to whitewash an investigation, if the McCanns were going to be given a free pass, that would have happened a long time ago and everyone would have forgotten about the McCanns by now, there would have been no need for a review that turned into an investigation and there is no way that the Portuguese are going to spend time and money reopening a case only to close it again without a result or coming to a totally different conclusion to their original investigation, whilst totally ignoring their previous findings.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Joss on 26.10.13 10:48

@susible wrote:
@tiredofthebs wrote:
@Sockpuppet wrote:Saying that Maddy may be alive is just a statement of fact.  It just means that no body has been found yet, nothing more.

I firmly believe that the McCanns will be held accountable for the disappearance of their daughter, and I'm very happy to be posting in this highly optimistic thread! :)
No, saying that Maddy may be alive is a despicable, evil lie. We know she is dead. There was no abduction and the cadaver dog smelled her corpse.

Those are the facts.
No, the cadaver dog smelled traces of A corpse, there is no proof that it was Madeleine, that's why the dogs evidence is inadmissible in court.  Yes, we know that apparently no one else died in the apartment and Madeleine went missing, never to be seen again from that apartment ergo it was Madeleine's corpse that the dog smelled, but like I say there is no proof it was her.

I also feel that your use of the words despicable and evil to describe the possibility that a missing child is still alive to be quite disturbing and is exactly the type of thing that the pro trolls jump on to make us look like haters who would actually prefer Madeleine to be dead.  And whilst most of us know that the possibility of her still being alive is remote, I think we would all hope that there was a chance that we were wrong.

Finally Lance started this thread as a thread of hope and all you have done is posted negative after negative, yes you're entitled to your opinion, but this thread was aimed specifically at looking at the positives.  Maybe you should start your own thread on why you think it will be a whitewash, then those of us who are fed up reading highly speculative, negative posts can just avoid it.

Back on topic, thanks Lance for this thread, I too remain positive and am not concerned about what the MSM says, because they are known for spouting lies and rubbish so why would they change now.

I also have great faith in both investigations as I personally have never believed in any conspiracy, protection or cover up theory and the bottom line is that there is just no need to whitewash an investigation, if the McCanns were going to be given a free pass, that would have happened a long time ago and everyone would have forgotten about the McCanns by now, there would have been no need for a review that turned into an investigation and there is no way that the Portuguese are going to spend time and money reopening a case only to close it again without a result or coming to a totally different conclusion to their original investigation, whilst totally ignoring their previous findings.
 I thought cadaverine was also detected on KM's clothing and in the boot of their hire car?

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by susible on 26.10.13 10:52

Yes, it was Joss, that still does not make it Madeleine's...okay a very high chance that it was, but not definite proof

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by jeanmonroe on 26.10.13 10:57

A police officer told me:

It's not what you KNOW, it's what you can PROVE in court.

eta: a very , very SENIOR police officer. (ACC)

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Cristobell on 26.10.13 10:59

@Joss wrote:
@Hicks wrote:Well I just don't get it!
Now the McCann's are going to apply for prosecutor status which means that they get to see all Portuguese files and be kept in the loop as it were.
According to the mail the Portuguese police finally admit that the McCann's are no longer suspects.
What is going on??
Maybe if they are no longer considered suspects, they are considered "perpetrators" by the Portugese Police? I guess one can hope.
In the cold light of day, declaring the parents no longer suspects is ridiculous.  The investigation has only just officially been re-opened, how can a police force discard 99% of the available evidence in order not to upset the missing child's parents.  If SY and the PJ are not going to look at the actions of the parents and their friends, we may as well all pack up now and set up direct debits to the Madeleine Fund as penance for ever doubting them.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Joss on 26.10.13 11:02

@Cristobell wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Hicks wrote:Well I just don't get it!
Now the McCann's are going to apply for prosecutor status which means that they get to see all Portuguese files and be kept in the loop as it were.
According to the mail the Portuguese police finally admit that the McCann's are no longer suspects.
What is going on??
Maybe if they are no longer considered suspects, they are considered "perpetrators" by the Portugese Police? I guess one can hope.
In the cold light of day, declaring the parents no longer suspects is ridiculous.  The investigation has only just officially been re-opened, how can a police force discard 99% of the available evidence in order not to upset the missing child's parents.  If SY and the PJ are not going to look at the actions of the parents and their friends, we may as well all pack up now and set up direct debits to the Madeleine Fund as penance for ever doubting them.
ITA. It would not make any sense.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by jeanmonroe on 26.10.13 11:04

"According to the mail the Portuguese police finally admit that the McCann's are no longer suspects."
....................................................................................

To WHOM did the Portuguese Police finally ADMIT this 'revelation' to?

The man on the street corner?
The Daily Mail?

WHO?

I must have missed the worldwide 'declaration' when the Portuguese Police finally ADMITTED that the McCanns were no longer 'suspects'

Is there a link to this 'revelation'?

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 26.10.13 11:06

@susible wrote:Yes, it was Joss, that still does not make it Madeleine's...okay a very high chance that it was, but not definite proof
Yes she was cuddling cadavers prior to the holiday and generally likes to hire cars where dead bodies have been transported about, what a coincidence. Hopefully these facts remain in the investigation and will see the light of day again

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Mirage on 26.10.13 11:07

The indications are that Madeleine is dead.

 The cadaver dog alerted in diverse places within the apartment. At some time a cadaver was present in, or contaminated the area behind the sofa and the base of the wardrobe that is clear. No other record of a death within that property exists.

The dog also alerted to cadaverine in places and on objects extraneous to the apartment and belonging to the McCanns.

Although the evidence is compelling, Martin Grimes points out that the alerts should be seen as an important component within overall evidence. The evidence it is most used in conjunction with  is DNA - and we all know what happened there.
 
 That leaves the circumstantial. Well, the circumstances of the night in question have been deliberately shrouded in confusion and lies. You'd have to have the IQ of a peewit not to see that. So it will be interesting to see when - not IF - the pact will break under the scramble to distance themselves from the McCanns' debacle. (I like that word - send it to Miranda)

"Well, them's me private thoughts, Alfie." (But you can read 'em anyway!)

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beginning of new stage: Crimewatch - gipsy stories - reopening

Post by haroldd on 26.10.13 11:09

I think this is the beginning of a new stage, heralded not just by the reopening but also by CW and the current gipsy baby-thief stories.

The countries where gipsy abduction stories have arisen:

1) Greece (can anyone think of a very PR-savvy and possibly spook-connected British-based leisure company which has properties in that country?)

2) Ireland (think of certain Irish-linked business interests)

The Irish case is especially interesting, because we have had policemen go into gipsy camps and abduct children 'on suspicion of abduction', whom they have later admitted are actually their gypsy parents' offspring after all. That is an extraordinary way for police to behave. In many countries, such as Norway and more recently the Czech republic, gipsies and other travellers have had their children abducted in large numbers by the authorities. But I have never before heard of events such as the recent ones in Ireland.

In the Greek case, according to the newspapers we have the real mother charged with selling her daughter and the gypsy parents charged with abduction. They can't both be guilty. It is very sad that so few are addressing the poverty which leads some parents in Europe to sell their children. But of course the propaganda, in Britain at least, is bound up with the classic right-wing theme of benefit claimants living the life of Riley. Nobody seems to be saying that if the woman in Bulgaria had been able to claim more benefits, then she wouldn't have had to sell her child.

If the protectors of the McCanns are behind these stories, as I believe they are (because...the usual question...why now?), then the question is whether this propaganda is

1) offensive
to finish off Amaral - ker ching!

or

2) defensive
because one of the following applies:

a) they will soon be made suspects and the subjects of arrest warrants in Portugal, and this all helps support their defence (the 'get your retaliation in first' scenario), or

b) this will help keep them out of that scenario

1) could go together with 2b). On the other hand it could be 2a). It certainly doesn't look as though their protectors have dropped them. Yet. Looks to me as though a dingdong battle lies ahead. What we need to do is try to look at this from the PJ's point of view.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Guest on 26.10.13 11:10

This concerns me, has anyone read about it before?

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1770  (Link has gone)

Madeleine: McCanns consult American lawyers over 'cadaver dog' evidence
Last updated at 18:07pm on 16th September 2007

Comments

Kate and Gerry McCann's legal team have consulted the lawyers of an American man accused of murdering his estranged wife in a case where cadaver dog evidence was key, a source said today.


Two British sniffer dogs, one capable of detecting blood and human remains, were brought to Portugal in early August.

The cadaver dog picked up a "scent of death" on everything from Mrs McCann's clothes to missing Madeleine's favourite soft toy Cuddle Cat, according to reports.

During police interviews the McCanns were shown a video of the animal "going crazy" when it approached their Renault Scenic hire car, newspapers have claimed.

Leaked reports from the investigation have suggested Madeleine's parents could have accidentally killed her and then disposed of her body using the car.

Although they do not know the full details of Portuguese prosecutors' case against them, the McCanns are concerned it may rest on the dog's reaction.

They want to highlight the judge's dismissal of cadaver dog evidence in the high-profile Eugene Zapata murder trial in Madison, Wisconsin.


The couple's lawyers have already contacted Zapata's defence team, who are now sending their large file on the matter to Britain.

Zapata's estranged wife, flight instructor Jeanette Zapata, was 37 when she vanished on October 11 1976 after seeing her three children off to school. Her body has never been found.

Detectives suspected Zapata of involvement in her disappearance but did not charge him because of a lack of evidence.

Police decided to conduct new searches using cadaver dogs, a new investigative technique, when an old friend of Mrs Zapata contacted them about the case in 2004

Zapata, 68, was charged with first-degree murder last year after the dogs indicated they sniffed human remains in a small basement "crawl space" at the former family home in Madison and other properties linked to him.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1140.1120

The couple's lawyers have already contacted Zapata's defence team, who are now sending their large file on the matter to Britain.

 Are they going to use something from this large file to try and discredit Eddie and Keela?

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by susible on 26.10.13 11:16

Cherry Blossom wrote:This concerns me, has anyone read about it before?

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1770  (Link has gone)

Madeleine: McCanns consult American lawyers over 'cadaver dog' evidence
Last updated at 18:07pm on 16th September 2007

Comments

Kate and Gerry McCann's legal team have consulted the lawyers of an American man accused of murdering his estranged wife in a case where cadaver dog evidence was key, a source said today.


Two British sniffer dogs, one capable of detecting blood and human remains, were brought to Portugal in early August.

The cadaver dog picked up a "scent of death" on everything from Mrs McCann's clothes to missing Madeleine's favourite soft toy Cuddle Cat, according to reports.

During police interviews the McCanns were shown a video of the animal "going crazy" when it approached their Renault Scenic hire car, newspapers have claimed.

Leaked reports from the investigation have suggested Madeleine's parents could have accidentally killed her and then disposed of her body using the car.

Although they do not know the full details of Portuguese prosecutors' case against them, the McCanns are concerned it may rest on the dog's reaction.

They want to highlight the judge's dismissal of cadaver dog evidence in the high-profile Eugene Zapata murder trial in Madison, Wisconsin.


The couple's lawyers have already contacted Zapata's defence team, who are now sending their large file on the matter to Britain.

Zapata's estranged wife, flight instructor Jeanette Zapata, was 37 when she vanished on October 11 1976 after seeing her three children off to school. Her body has never been found.

Detectives suspected Zapata of involvement in her disappearance but did not charge him because of a lack of evidence.

Police decided to conduct new searches using cadaver dogs, a new investigative technique, when an old friend of Mrs Zapata contacted them about the case in 2004

Zapata, 68, was charged with first-degree murder last year after the dogs indicated they sniffed human remains in a small basement "crawl space" at the former family home in Madison and other properties linked to him.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1140.1120

The couple's lawyers have already contacted Zapata's defence team, who are now sending their large file on the matter to Britain.

 Are they going to use something from this large file to try and discredit Eddie and Keela?
Err but Zapata confessed, he did kill his wife and the dogs were right, so this is really clutching at straws

And I have to say I'm puzzled by all of the people who suddenly believe everything printed in the daily fail

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Rufus T on 26.10.13 11:16

Thank you LDB for a very welcome relief from the confusion and gloom on some of the recent threads. I can see the end in sight, thank you again for reminding me that there is hope, I was beginning to drift into a very dark place, you have renewed my faith- thank you.cheers

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Praiaaa on 26.10.13 11:22

The fact that TM have applied for assistant status is good news. If they are confident that they have been exonerated, why apply? TM spin it that they are getting top level briefings anyway.
If they are denied it, they could spin 'nothing sinister about that, purely procedure' but will put them in a sticky dilemma about going to Portugal. (Tho' the Portugal thing may be irrelevant anyway, if the Portugese issue an EAW the Brit police would have to arrest them anyway).
IF they are innocent, they have no need to worry - with all the publicity in this case, even if the police were minded to fit them up for a crime they did not commit, police would never get away with it, so IF they are innocent they will be happier now than at any point since MM was 'abducted', and IF they are innocent I will rejoice for them seeing justice moving forward..
If they are not innocent, although I am not at all a vindictive person, given the devastating effect all this has had on numerous people, I hope this weekend they are feeling the 'fear' that KM unashamedly wished upon GA.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by tiredofthebs on 26.10.13 11:23

@susible wrote:
@tiredofthebs wrote:
@Sockpuppet wrote:Saying that Maddy may be alive is just a statement of fact.  It just means that no body has been found yet, nothing more.

I firmly believe that the McCanns will be held accountable for the disappearance of their daughter, and I'm very happy to be posting in this highly optimistic thread! :)
No, saying that Maddy may be alive is a despicable, evil lie. We know she is dead. There was no abduction and the cadaver dog smelled her corpse.

Those are the facts.
No, the cadaver dog smelled traces of A corpse, there is no proof that it was Madeleine, that's why the dogs evidence is inadmissible in court.  Yes, we know that apparently no one else died in the apartment and Madeleine went missing, never to be seen again from that apartment ergo it was Madeleine's corpse that the dog smelled, but like I say there is no proof it was her.

Who was it then? If the McCanns can't explain who it was then arrest them.

I also feel that your use of the words despicable and evil to describe the possibility that a missing child is still alive to be quite disturbing and is exactly the type of thing that the pro trolls jump on to make us look like haters who would actually prefer Madeleine to be dead.  And whilst most of us know that the possibility of her still being alive is remote, I think we would all hope that there was a chance that we were wrong.

Please don't twist my words. I said that the lie was despicable and evil. And it is. Anyone telling that lie is as good as an accessory to murder.

Finally Lance started this thread as a thread of hope and all you have done is posted negative after negative, yes you're entitled to your opinion, but this thread was aimed specifically at looking at the positives.  Maybe you should start your own thread on why you think it will be a whitewash, then those of us who are fed up reading highly speculative, negative posts can just avoid it.

What is remotely speculative about my posts?

Back on topic, thanks Lance for this thread, I too remain positive and am not concerned about what the MSM says, because they are known for spouting lies and rubbish so why would they change now.

I also have great faith in both investigations as I personally have never believed in any conspiracy, protection or cover up theory and the bottom line is that there is just no need to whitewash an investigation, if the McCanns were going to be given a free pass, that would have happened a long time ago and everyone would have forgotten about the McCanns by now, there would have been no need for a review that turned into an investigation and there is no way that the Portuguese are going to spend time and money reopening a case only to close it again without a result or coming to a totally different conclusion to their original investigation, whilst totally ignoring their previous findings.

There has been a cover up from day one. Leicestershire police used to link to the McCann's website. I would love to be as hopeful as you but facts are getting in the way.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Joss on 26.10.13 11:24

Cherry Blossom,    The way i read the article Zapata was charged with 1st. degree Murder because of the cadaver dogs evidence? I don't think on that premise that the McC's lawyers will be able to discredit the dogs evidence.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by haroldd on 26.10.13 11:25

@Hicks wrote:Would their Portuguese lawyer lie by saying that, "the couple were told in a police briefing last week in Lisbon, new lines of the enquiry which have led to the reopening the investigation in Portugal, absolve them of any responsibility?
How can a 'new line of enquiry' 'absolve' anyone of anything?

I wouldn't trust a word that the McCs' lawyer says about what the police have said privately. The police have not made such a statement publicly. The PJ probably do not like the McCanns' lawyer saying things like this, and the McCanns know that, and I don't reckon the McCanns and the PJ are new-found friends. Admittedly it is possible that this interpretation is incorrect and that in fact a single string-pulling source has told SY and PJ what to do and is happily letting the McCs say such things, but I doubt it.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by susible on 26.10.13 11:27

@Joss wrote:Cherry Blossom,    The way i read the article Zapata was charged with 1st. degree Murder because of the cadaver dogs evidence? I don't think on that premise that the McC's lawyers will be able to discredit the dogs evidence.
See the link I posted above...Zapata confessed, the dogs were right

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Mirage on 26.10.13 11:30

We assent
You may assist
But our backsides you must kiss.

When we ask about that door
We are not inclined you should ignore
And think yourselves above the law.

With all the evidence in sight
It should give you quite a fright
We know what went down that night.
Some lips have not remained so tight.

When we lead you to the close
Of all your posturing and pose
Please admit what we suppose
Without looking at us down your nose.

Sad to say
Soon comes the day
When both of you are led away.

We recognise you're both old hands
At flogging quality wrist bands,
So please, do not cut up rough
For here's a quality hand cuff.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by Joss on 26.10.13 11:30

@susible wrote:
@Joss wrote:Cherry Blossom,    The way i read the article Zapata was charged with 1st. degree Murder because of the cadaver dogs evidence? I don't think on that premise that the McC's lawyers will be able to discredit the dogs evidence.
See the link I posted above...Zapata confessed, the dogs were right
I just saw that after i posted, thanks.

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 26.10.13 11:32

@Mirage wrote:We assent
You may assist
But our backsides you must kiss.

When we ask about that door
We are not inclined you should ignore
And think yourselves above the law.

With all the evidence in sight
It should give you quite a fright
We know what went down that night.
Some lips have not remained so tight.

When we lead you to the close
Of all your posturing and pose
Please admit what we suppose
Without looking at us down your nose.

Sad to say
Soon comes the day
When both of you are led away.

We recognise you're both old hands
At flogging quality wrist bands,
So please, do not cut up rough
For here's a quality hand cuff.
*Golf clap*

TheTruthWillOut

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Re: Why the re-opening signifies the beginning of the end. Thread of HOPE.

Post by sami on 26.10.13 11:33

Perhaps their interest is in finding legal precedent where cadaver dogs was ruled as inadmissable by a judge, so they will check all past cases for judges opinions ?  I'm just guessing/suggesting.

Anyway, for me there s a big difference between discrediting and disproving.  Discrediting is what they have already tried to do.  Disproving is what they have failed to do.

sami

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