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Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

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Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by Sockpuppet on 24.10.13 23:12

We have several conflicting stories about who did the picking up - was it Gerry, was it Kate?  Let's look at the evidence that we have, which is that Kate's signature appears on the creche records at 1730.  I've always cast a suspicious eye over that signature.  For a long time, I wondered if the signature was forged.  It looks a little different from all of Kate's other signatures.  But why would it need to be forged?  'Cat nanny' seemed to have no issue with signing out for parents that had forgotten to do it themselves.  Not signing out doesn't look like a big issue, as long as the nanny knows the child has gone, she signs it.

Then I wondered - what if the signature was not forged, but was actually the result of the writer being a little 'worse for wear', should we say?  I've signed my name while drunk before (I'll spare you the details). And that's what Kate's signature looks like to me.

Perhaps Kate was not entirely sober when she picked the kids up.  If that was the case, then she would have been in the same state when the twins were picked up 5 minutes before.  So let's look at how she signed those out.  And yes, to me it looks the same here.  Kate's signature looks a little different to usual, and one of the times (1725) is written in a curving shape.  Draw a line underneath the other times that Kate has signed, and they are all straight.  Draw a line underneath this time, and you get a curve.  All of Kate's other signatures are written in a line parallel to the grid-lines.  The three signatures at 1725 and 1730 slant downwards to the right.

I think Kate might have been a little wobbly.  And perhaps that had a lot to do with the tragic events later that evening.

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by Sockpuppet on 24.10.13 23:18

I guess a link to the creche records would be helpful big grin 

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id351.html

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by whmon on 24.10.13 23:19

@Sockpuppet wrote:We have several conflicting stories about who did the picking up - was it Gerry, was it Kate?  Let's look at the evidence that we have, which is that Kate's signature appears on the creche records at 1730.  I've always cast a suspicious eye over that signature.  For a long time, I wondered if the signature was forged.  It looks a little different from all of Kate's other signatures.  But why would it need to be forged?  'Cat nanny' seemed to have no issue with signing out for parents that had forgotten to do it themselves.  Not signing out doesn't look like a big issue, as long as the nanny knows the child has gone, she signs it.

Then I wondered - what if the signature was not forged, but was actually the result of the writer being a little 'worse for wear', should we say?  I've signed my name while drunk before (I'll spare you the details). And that's what Kate's signature looks like to me.

Perhaps Kate was not entirely sober when she picked the kids up.  If that was the case, then she would have been in the same state when the twins were picked up 5 minutes before.  So let's look at how she signed those out.  And yes, to me it looks the same here.  Kate's signature looks a little different to usual, and one of the times (1725) is written in a curving shape.  Draw a line underneath the other times that Kate has signed, and they are all straight.  Draw a line underneath this time, and you get a curve.  All of Kate's other signatures are written in a line parallel to the grid-lines.  The three signatures at 1725 and 1730 slant downwards to the right.

I think Kate might have been a little wobbly.  And perhaps that had a lot to do with the tragic events later that evening.
Good point. My signature is also altered after having a drink. Kate has mentioned several times that getting squiffy is the norm, didn't she say they had picked up a drunk lying in the street sometime and 'we've all been there' (much to the disgust of some readers who had most certainly not 'been there'.) And it was a holiday - the time when those of us who do partake in the odd tipple tend to have a few more than normal.

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by Sockpuppet on 24.10.13 23:29

@whmon wrote:Good point. My signature is also altered after having a drink. Kate has mentioned several times that getting squiffy is the norm, didn't she say they had picked up a drunk lying in the street sometime and 'we've all been there' (much to the disgust of some readers who had most certainly not 'been there'.) And it was a holiday - the time when those of us who do partake in the odd tipple tend to have a few more than normal.
If - as I've said in the Smith-man thread - Kate and Gerry were having marital problems, enough for Kate to sign out on the 1st as 'Kate Healy', and not be invited to the gathering at the beach on the afternoon of the 3rd - if that is true, then Kate may have had a lot of time on her hands while the kids were in the creche.

Gerry is off playing tennis, what do you do?

A few drinks perhaps?

Rachel and Jane claim to have seen Kate running up and down the beach.  Kate didn't stop to speak to them, which is strange considering everyone was there, even the kids.  And she ran past twice.  It's unusual.  If the story is true, then this may indicate that Kate had fallen out with everyone, or was simply in a bad temper.  Surely she would stop, say she was going to go and get the kids to join them.  Or even better, ring Gerry on his mobile, and get him to bring them seeing as he was closer, and it would save her one trip.  If it were my kids, they'd much prefer to play on the beach with the others.  She wouldn't ring Gerry though, if they had fallen out.  But I find it difficult to explain why she didn't speak to anyone.

Or perhaps Kate was not seen running up and down the beach.  Perhaps she was doing something else.

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by whmon on 25.10.13 0:38

@Sockpuppet wrote:
@whmon wrote:Good point. My signature is also altered after having a drink. Kate has mentioned several times that getting squiffy is the norm, didn't she say they had picked up a drunk lying in the street sometime and 'we've all been there' (much to the disgust of some readers who had most certainly not 'been there'.) And it was a holiday - the time when those of us who do partake in the odd tipple tend to have a few more than normal.
If - as I've said in the Smith-man thread - Kate and Gerry were having marital problems, enough for Kate to sign out on the 1st as 'Kate Healy', and not be invited to the gathering at the beach on the afternoon of the 3rd - if that is true, then Kate may have had a lot of time on her hands while the kids were in the creche.

Gerry is off playing tennis, what do you do?

A few drinks perhaps?

Rachel and Jane claim to have seen Kate running up and down the beach.  Kate didn't stop to speak to them, which is strange considering everyone was there, even the kids.  And she ran past twice.  It's unusual.  If the story is true, then this may indicate that Kate had fallen out with everyone, or was simply in a bad temper.  Surely she would stop, say she was going to go and get the kids to join them.  Or even better, ring Gerry on his mobile, and get him to bring them seeing as he was closer, and it would save her one trip.  If it were my kids, they'd much prefer to play on the beach with the others.  She wouldn't ring Gerry though, if they had fallen out.  But I find it difficult to explain why she didn't speak to anyone.

Or perhaps Kate was not seen running up and down the beach.  Perhaps she was doing something else.
Yet another good point!

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by Okeydokey on 25.10.13 1:10

@whmon wrote:
@Sockpuppet wrote:We have several conflicting stories about who did the picking up - was it Gerry, was it Kate?  Let's look at the evidence that we have, which is that Kate's signature appears on the creche records at 1730.  I've always cast a suspicious eye over that signature.  For a long time, I wondered if the signature was forged.  It looks a little different from all of Kate's other signatures.  But why would it need to be forged?  'Cat nanny' seemed to have no issue with signing out for parents that had forgotten to do it themselves.  Not signing out doesn't look like a big issue, as long as the nanny knows the child has gone, she signs it.

Then I wondered - what if the signature was not forged, but was actually the result of the writer being a little 'worse for wear', should we say?  I've signed my name while drunk before (I'll spare you the details). And that's what Kate's signature looks like to me.

Perhaps Kate was not entirely sober when she picked the kids up.  If that was the case, then she would have been in the same state when the twins were picked up 5 minutes before.  So let's look at how she signed those out.  And yes, to me it looks the same here.  Kate's signature looks a little different to usual, and one of the times (1725) is written in a curving shape.  Draw a line underneath the other times that Kate has signed, and they are all straight.  Draw a line underneath this time, and you get a curve.  All of Kate's other signatures are written in a line parallel to the grid-lines.  The three signatures at 1725 and 1730 slant downwards to the right.

I think Kate might have been a little wobbly.  And perhaps that had a lot to do with the tragic events later that evening.
Good point. My signature is also altered after having a drink. Kate has mentioned several times that getting squiffy is the norm, didn't she say they had picked up a drunk lying in the street sometime and 'we've all been there' (much to the disgust of some readers who had most certainly not 'been there'.) And it was a holiday - the time when those of us who do partake in the odd tipple tend to have a few more than normal.
Yep - thanks for the reminder of that!

Her signature does seem to take different forms. I would say the early one looks relaxed. Later on the morning ones are quite angular but the afternoon one is definitely unco-ordinated.

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by suzyjohnson on 25.10.13 1:47

Two points, while we are on the subject, 

Firstly, Kate may have just made a mistake in signing herself Kate Healy, as a doctor she is registered as Kate Healy and not Kate McCann.

Secondly, there is frequently confusion over whether it was GM or KM who collected MM from the creche on the 3rd, as although KM signed the creche record, in her book KM says she went to meet MM at the Tapas and that GM was already there. I think this can be explained (by something I read somewhere) that the nannies used to take the signing out sheets with them to the Tapas restaurant at tea time.

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Re: Who collected Madeleine from the creche at 1730 on 3rd May 2007?

Post by Sockpuppet on 25.10.13 2:20

@suzyjohnson wrote:Two points, while we are on the subject, 

Firstly, Kate may have just made a mistake in signing herself Kate Healy, as a doctor she is registered as Kate Healy and not Kate McCann.

Secondly, there is frequently confusion over whether it was GM or KM who collected MM from the creche on the 3rd, as although KM signed the creche record, in her book KM says she went to meet MM at the Tapas and that GM was already there. I think this can be explained (by something I read somewhere) that the nannies used to take the signing out sheets with them to the Tapas restaurant at tea time.
Your second point seems very probable to me, so that's explained one little mystery to me, many thanks :)  However, I still think that particular signature shows a lack of coordination, a possible sign of drunkenness.

On the first point, that would be a strange mistake to make, given that she is signing just to the right of her earlier signature of McCann.

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