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Met boss defends Portuguese police

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by pennylane on 24.10.13 10:02

@MissDaisy wrote:AR said "this has gone on for far too long". Those are exactly the type of words someone would use when talking about a charade that they are tired of. I really do believe this will be wrapped up soon and that he wants to get to the truth.
Both sides of the divide believe that, so it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme (imo).

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by StraightThinking on 24.10.13 10:08

@MissDaisy wrote:AR said "this has gone on for far too long". Those are exactly the type of words someone would use when talking about a charade that they are tired of. I really do believe this will be wrapped up soon and that he wants to get to the truth.
Yes indeed, no senior investigating officer ever used words like that about such a serious case
It sounds like an irritated parent who is fed up with their kids messing them around
He knows what happened, but currently lacks the evidence to back things up
If he can shame at least one of the naughty children who have told fibs to admit the truth, everything else will fall into place

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by susible on 24.10.13 10:12

@pennylane wrote:
@susible wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
Yes he has indeed!  Reinforced by the balloon releasing Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, speaking only yesterday of the 'parents torture in not knowing.' Yes 'Sir!'  And the ever so, ever so, esteemed Lord Leveson's multiple referrals to 'the abduction' during that farce of an Inquiry of his; plus Jim Gamble's much flaunted complete and utter faith in Team McCann.  Then, as you say, good old DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange fame, who cannot seem to string a single sentence together without insisting Madeleine was taken by a stranger and that the McCann and friends are innocent.

Methinks the gruesome twosome's innocence is protested far, far, too much by the members of the British Establishment! I fear great efforts are underway to belittle the original investigation, and the damaging CSI blood and cadaver dog alerts to all things McCann, and to isolate the opinion of  Goncalo Amaral,
No, I totally disagree, there would have been no need for a review/investigation in that case, the McCanns would just have disappeared after they were de-arguidoed and everyone would have completely forgotten about them.  It's the McCanns desire to be totally exonerated (and make money) that has kept the story in the media and as Andy Redwood said, this has gone on for far too long, it needs to come to a conclusion and if that conclusion was simply to clear the McCanns, that would have been done a long time ago imo
We agree on one thing, and that is that the McCann's want to be totally exonerated.  The original conclusions and the damaging evidence that points their way is always bubbling ominously beneath the surface.  They tried desperately to shut Goncalo Amaral up, and failed miserably. They tried desperately to improve their reputations and failed miserably there too.   This prevents them from moving on, as they are constantly looking over their shoulder - and have to keep making money to pay their teams to keep the truth suppressed.  They were unable to 'disappear' for these reasons.  I believe Andy Redwood is in the process of cleaning up their mess so they can move on.  And boy what a mess it is.
Sorry, no I think we'll have to agree to disagree I don't think Andy Redwood is in any way clearing up the McCann's mess.  Had the Mc's been protected etc, they would have been told to shut up a long time ago and given the means to disappear and apart from a short time right at the beginning, the Mc's have not had any protection, they have decided to keep the charade going themselves when they were not in any danger of being prosecuted for anything because of their need for total exoneration (and more money) and they have pushed and pushed (aided by News International as the "Maddie" story sells copy) until finally a review was ordered...from the McCanns perspective they probably thought it was a good thing because they could still spin the findings..then Uh Oh...SY decided that the review should proceed to an investigation and when that decision was made (earlier in the year) it was the first time the McCanns looked genuinely distraught and wretched, because they knew they had pushed too much and they knew that as with the PJ there was no way they could pull the wool over SY's eyes and yes, they're still spinning but they can spin all they like, it's not going to alter the fact that the investigation is slowly but surely edging towards the same conclusion that the PJ arrived at and it really is just a matter of time before it all comes tumbling down imo

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by susible on 24.10.13 10:15

@StraightThinking wrote:
@MissDaisy wrote:AR said "this has gone on for far too long". Those are exactly the type of words someone would use when talking about a charade that they are tired of. I really do believe this will be wrapped up soon and that he wants to get to the truth.
Yes indeed, no senior investigating officer ever used words like that about such a serious case
It sounds like an irritated parent who is fed up with their kids messing them around
He knows what happened, but currently lacks the evidence to back things up
If he can shame at least one of the naughty children who have told fibs to admit the truth, everything else will fall into place
Agree with both of you.  I believe that SY probably believe exactly the same as the PJ did and what we do, but proving it is the issue.  AR has to get the evidence to prove the theory, evidence that will stand up in court and secure a conviction imo

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Mirage on 24.10.13 10:24

@susible wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
Yes he has indeed!  Reinforced by the balloon releasing Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, speaking only yesterday of the 'parents torture in not knowing.' Yes 'Sir!'  And the ever so, ever so, esteemed Lord Leveson's multiple referrals to 'the abduction' during that farce of an Inquiry of his; plus Jim Gamble's much flaunted complete and utter faith in Team McCann.  Then, as you say, good old DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange fame, who cannot seem to string a single sentence together without insisting Madeleine was taken by a stranger and that the McCann and friends are innocent.

Methinks the gruesome twosome's innocence is protested far, far, too much by the members of the British Establishment! I fear great efforts are underway to belittle the original investigation, and the damaging CSI blood and cadaver dog alerts to all things McCann, and to isolate the opinion of  Goncalo Amaral,
No, I totally disagree, there would have been no need for a review/investigation in that case, the McCanns would just have disappeared after they were de-arguidoed and everyone would have completely forgotten about them.  It's the McCanns desire to be totally exonerated (and make money) that has kept the story in the media and as Andy Redwood said, this has gone on for far too long, it needs to come to a conclusion and if that conclusion was simply to clear the McCanns, that would have been done a long time ago imo
It is not surprising that many people harbour suspicions about the prospect of any just prosecution. Every step of this tortuous process has been pockmarked, not only with lies, but smears against decent members of the public who dared voice an opinion. This is why I remain cautious, tending toward the view that I will believe it when I see it.

That said, today I am more minded to agree with Susible's summation.

 There comes a tipping point when it becomes too dangerous to thwart public opinion any further. And there is strong antipathetic sentiment both here and in Portugal with regard to the McCanns  - the more so since CW. It makes no sense to suddenly unify the public opinion of two countries and amplify that discontent on a world stage.

 Incidentally, the fact that CW wasn't broadcast in PT may indicate how far this investigation has bifurcated. Taking into account BHH's statement yesterday, it may be a sign that SY have backed off. Did they fail in their attempt to wangle shared information during their many trips to Lisbon? Were they kept more at arms' length this time? I couldn't help thinking of plod turning up in Portimao wearing high quality wristbands. GA alludes to his suspicions in the book IIRC and how he stopped sharing information with the British.

Anyway, back to my point about public opinion. Why would the investigation be re-opened in Portugal, only to denigrate all the evidence they have on file? And let us not forget that GA has alluded to circa 20% of the files being held back. Maybe SY have agreed to clear the path for the case to proceed by discounting JT. A small recompense for all the Portuguese police have endured in the British press. Maybe SY's part will come later, when they start looking at the fund accounts.

If this is the scenario, maybe the ground has been cleared by the CPS for extradition. It would seem the sensible route because the diplomatic damage between the two countries is in need of repair. And the two strands of the case could be the face-saving compromise. Again, I think of BHH's statement yesterday.

All I hope is that both sides have considered GM's request for heat-seeking helicopters and sealed borders when the time comes.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by pennylane on 24.10.13 11:14

@Mirage wrote:
@susible wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
Yes he has indeed!  Reinforced by the balloon releasing Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, speaking only yesterday of the 'parents torture in not knowing.' Yes 'Sir!'  And the ever so, ever so, esteemed Lord Leveson's multiple referrals to 'the abduction' during that farce of an Inquiry of his; plus Jim Gamble's much flaunted complete and utter faith in Team McCann.  Then, as you say, good old DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange fame, who cannot seem to string a single sentence together without insisting Madeleine was taken by a stranger and that the McCann and friends are innocent.

Methinks the gruesome twosome's innocence is protested far, far, too much by the members of the British Establishment! I fear great efforts are underway to belittle the original investigation, and the damaging CSI blood and cadaver dog alerts to all things McCann, and to isolate the opinion of  Goncalo Amaral,
No, I totally disagree, there would have been no need for a review/investigation in that case, the McCanns would just have disappeared after they were de-arguidoed and everyone would have completely forgotten about them.  It's the McCanns desire to be totally exonerated (and make money) that has kept the story in the media and as Andy Redwood said, this has gone on for far too long, it needs to come to a conclusion and if that conclusion was simply to clear the McCanns, that would have been done a long time ago imo
It is not surprising that many people harbour suspicions about the prospect of any just prosecution. Every step of this tortuous process has been pockmarked, not only with lies, but smears against decent members of the public who dared voice an opinion. This is why I remain cautious, tending toward the view that I will believe it when I see it.

That said, today I am more minded to agree with Susible's summation.

 There comes a tipping point when it becomes too dangerous to thwart public opinion any further. And there is strong antipathetic sentiment both here and in Portugal with regard to the McCanns  - the more so since CW. It makes no sense to suddenly unify the public opinion of two countries and amplify that discontent on a world stage.

 Incidentally, the fact that CW wasn't broadcast in PT may indicate how far this investigation has bifurcated. Taking into account BHH's statement yesterday, it may be a sign that SY have backed off. Did they fail in their attempt to wangle shared information during their many trips to Lisbon? Were they kept more at arms' length this time? I couldn't help thinking of plod turning up in Portimao wearing high quality wristbands. GA alludes to his suspicions in the book IIRC and how he stopped sharing information with the British.

Anyway, back to my point about public opinion. Why would the investigation be re-opened in Portugal, only to denigrate all the evidence they have on file? And let us not forget that GA has alluded to circa 20% of the files being held back. Maybe SY have agreed to clear the path for the case to proceed by discounting JT. A small recompense for all the Portuguese police have endured in the British press. Maybe SY's part will come later, when they start looking at the fund accounts.

If this is the scenario, maybe the ground has been cleared by the CPS for extradition. It would seem the sensible route because the diplomatic damage between the two countries is in need of repair. And the two strands of the case could be the face-saving compromise. Again, I think of BHH's statement yesterday.

All I hope is that both sides have considered GM's request for heat-seeking helicopters and sealed borders when the time comes.
Thank you for your replies, I am still not convinced however. I personally cannot see any way for the McCanns to 'move on' now, unless their mess is cleaned up first.That would require addressing those damaging facts that are discussed 24/7 by people all around the world, and placing a different conclusion to them. The McCanns have screwed themselves completely by wanting it all, when they should have had far more important priorities, and as a result they are now buried beneath a mess they cannot extricate themselves from!

The slap in the face, side stepping of those officials originally involved in the case, who felt the McCanns played a part in Madeleine's sad fate, is a huge indicator that this Porto Team and New Op Grange investigation is up to no good in that they are only considering a stranger abduction..

Naturally I hope with every fiber of my being that you are correct, and I am wrong! roses

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by russiandoll on 24.10.13 11:48

What Andy Redwood did not say :

 "There is a young girl out there who needs to be found and reunited with her parents. Look at this age progressed photo and if you think that you have seen a girl resembling this and remember if you are close look for the tell-tale mark in her right eye ..."


 What he did say, loud and clear, were words which would not have been necessary were a whitewash in place

 WE ARE FIGHTING FOR MADELEINE MCCANN.

He kept his distance from the parents, so imo the "we " excluded them.  The WE imo referred exclusively to his team and as he referred to them, their colleagues in Portugal.

 Redwood said very little as always. What he did say and what was omitted from CW left us no more aware of what is happening.

 No mention of Payne visit  : we don't know if that is because he knows it did not happen, believes it did but was not as described in evidence, or  if Redwood is covering up and removing this nuisance piece of crucial evidence from the investigation.

Tannerman : we don't know if he exists as described as crecheman, is a ploy to widen the window for abduction and cover for the McCanns or if he is a Redwood invention as part of a strategy in the investigation.

 I firmly believe that re Payne, option 1 or 2 is the case. Re Tannerman, I firmly believe in opyion 3.

 I do not believe that the police forces of 2 countries would conspire to pervert the course of justice.

 I believe this case is about cover -up not conspiracy  and that the truth will be uncovered.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Mirage on 24.10.13 11:55

ANDY REDWOOD: "WE ARE FIGHTING FOR MADELEINE McCANN"

It would make a briilliant banner headline Admin.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by pennylane on 24.10.13 12:07

I noticed Andy Redwood on Sky News talking about if the Portuguese re-opened the investigation, SY would like to work alongside them.  Yeh right Andy, in your dreams.  What's wrong with your Porto Team!

I have to say, he looked a bit flustered, and I'm feeling a bit better now!  But will it happen I wonder?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Spook on 01.11.13 16:14

Andy Redwood is now stuck between the rock and a hard place. He has a team of investigators in place reviewing the original files and investigating leads. He cannot risk a whitewash because the PJ ALSO have a team breathing down his neck.

A whitewash would be so apparent to them and AR couldn't rely on the PJ keeping their mouths shut - he MAY be able to silence his own team, but the PJ?

No way.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by pennylane on 01.11.13 16:23

@Spook wrote:Andy Redwood is now stuck between the rock and a hard place. He has a team of investigators in place reviewing the original files and investigating leads. He cannot risk a whitewash because the PJ ALSO have a team breathing down his neck.

A whitewash would be so apparent to them and AR couldn't rely on the PJ keeping their mouths shut - he MAY be able to silence his own team, but the PJ?

No way.

Spook
Perhaps we are hearing about the latest 'suspects' and superfluous leads from the PJ themselves.  Might be their only defense from something that has been taken out of their control?

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