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Met boss defends Portuguese police

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 16:09

Châtelaine wrote:OT : does anyone know if Rebekha Brooks will testify in her upcoming court case?
She said last year that there would be some important news around this time.

It's complete speculation, but I've sometimes wondered whether she pushed for a Met review, because she has inside information and being a CEO of a big Media corporation then, would know that the "Maddie"-story as it has been going on for more than 6 years now, might soon dry up. A solution of the most famous crime case in history, though ...
A solution to, or arrests in, 'the most famous crime case this century'*, would knock other news off the front pages, would it not? 

Which is why,  having consulted my diary of forthcoming events (as I reported on another thread a couple of days ago), I am optimistic we will hear some welcome news next week.

*I hope you don't mind my having taken the liberty of downgrading the McCann case out of respect to the victim of the 20th century's 'Lindbergh baby' and those of the 19th century's Ripper.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 16:11

IIRC certain criminal offenses of UK residents, committed abroad, can be tried in the UK.

ETA no problem at all, ultimaThule. The century/ies long attention to those crimes may well add up to the publicity on the Madeleine McCann case [so far]. winkwink

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Seek truth on 23.10.13 16:21

Then why does Wikipedia say the opposite?

Anyway, anybody can just read the real files and find out if mistakes were made, and MET having read them, should know what they are saying.
portuguese police knew the files would be made public, obviously they'd HAVE to not mess up!

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 16:27

Châtelaine wrote:IIRC certain criminal offenses of UK residents, committed abroad, can be tried in the UK.

ETA no problem at all, ultimaThule. The century/ies long attention to those crimes may well add up to the publicity on the Madeleine McCann case [so far]. winkwink
In this particular case, the support of the PJ is crucial, as they were first on the 'scene', they need their case reopened if they intend to use any of that evidence, or if they intend to prosecute the people named as 'arguidos' in their investigation....To go to court with people previously dropped in an already and currently 'shelved' case,  and then 'renamed', I wouldnt think would stand well in any Country...

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by margaret on 23.10.13 16:38

Châtelaine wrote:OT : does anyone know if Rebekha Brooks will testify in her upcoming court case?
She said last year that there would be some important news around this time.

It's complete speculation, but I've sometimes wondered whether she pushed for a Met review, because she has inside information and being a CEO of a big Media corporation then, would know that the "Maddie"-story as it has been going on for more than 6 years now, might soon dry up. A solution of the most famous crime case in history, though ...
IMO it's unfeasible the Mccanns were not hacked, they had to have been, maybe Rebekah reeled them in but didn't expect to lose her job over it all.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 16:45

I cannot believe they were not hacked either, the biggest story for decades  and they were not hacked.

I would like to know what they were going to print about Kitten Heels May if Cameron had not agreed to the review.

It is absolutely unbelievable that could happen.  

I hope they have a decent, reliable prosecutor for the trial and none of the pussy footing we saw at Leveson.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 16:46

Back on topic, well something needed to be said about the original police investigation, especially as Mr. A. publicly said it took him only 2 weeks to get to the point where SY had taken 2 years!!!!

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 16:56

@plebgate wrote:Back on topic, well something needed to be said about the original police investigation, especially as Mr. A. publicly said it took him only 2 weeks to get to the point where SY had taken 2 years!!!!
To be fair on SY, a review was requested...that was the original plan..whether many expected them to then take it this step further, is another issue entirely, would be interesting to know winkwink

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 17:03

Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 17:07

@plebgate wrote:Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????
Well..yes, I can imagine how fustrating it is for those that have followed the case since the beginning. The PJ were wary at first when SY started the review I would think (and who can blame them) Im hoping they are coming round to the idea that this is not an attack on their original investigation, but a need to find the truth.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Humanist on 23.10.13 17:19


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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 17:23

@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????
Well..yes, I can imagine how fustrating it is for those that have followed the case since the beginning. The PJ were wary at first when SY started the review I would think (and who can blame them) Im hoping they are coming round to the idea that this is not an attack on their original investigation, but a need to find the truth.
I think the Portuguese, far from having "come around", are well aware that the Met are only interested in an abduction and, as a consequence, are only co-operating to the minimum level required under international law

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Sockpuppet on 23.10.13 17:24

He (she, or they) is/are getting bolder with every post.  Love it :)

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 17:26

thanks Humanist, but I only visit a couple of sites and that is not one of them. smilie

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 17:30

I think that goes without saying about Clarence Mitchell..and IF (and its a big if) the McCanns are innocent in this, then that was their biggest mistake. I dont know who it was to advice them that 'showing no emotion' in early interviews would be the way to go (as was claimed) but I would guess he had something to do with that...in fact the opposite is true in proffessional circles, hence why we have a very successful scheme where prisoners meet the victims of their crimes. Because its very easy for a criminal to detach from the sufferring of victims, and in fact that scheme works very well in rehabilitation. Usual advice would be to show all the emotion, but also to give a 'get out clause' in case the abductor feels 'trapped'..eg: leave the abducted child in a safe place..hospital, police station etc...after all, in initial days, a safe return is upmost before capturing the person responsible.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by stillsloppingout on 23.10.13 17:35

@Truthandjustice wrote:Have to agree with endgame here. Hogan-Howe is not defending the PJ actually, he is saying he can understand the reasons why they bungled it which is not the same thing at all.  Again he is re-iterating that the parents don't know if their child is alive or dead which is effectively ignoring the PJ findings.
Correct and adding they are looking for Blonde men also .thur ruling out Gerry.
The Met are not on the side of justice.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 17:39

If I were police and had the knowledge or at least a genuine hunch of what had happened and who'd done it, I would call for people to look for a blond, whilst I was smoking out the dark-haired ...

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 17:41

@stillsloppingout wrote:
@Truthandjustice wrote:Have to agree with endgame here. Hogan-Howe is not defending the PJ actually, he is saying he can understand the reasons why they bungled it which is not the same thing at all.  Again he is re-iterating that the parents don't know if their child is alive or dead which is effectively ignoring the PJ findings.
Correct and adding they are looking for Blonde men also .thur ruling out Gerry.
The Met are not on the side of justice.
Or they are trying to get people to finally rule out the blondes???

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by endgame on 23.10.13 17:49

@AndyB wrote:
@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????
Well..yes, I can imagine how fustrating it is for those that have followed the case since the beginning. The PJ were wary at first when SY started the review I would think (and who can blame them) Im hoping they are coming round to the idea that this is not an attack on their original investigation, but a need to find the truth.
I think the Portuguese, far from having "come around", are well aware that the Met are only interested in an abduction and, as a consequence, are only co-operating to the minimum level required under international law
Yes AndyB. All their statements about protocol and process suggest this. Who are we to disbelieve them? What evidence is there that the PJ also are engaged in the biggest game of bluff ever devised in the history of bluffing?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 17:59

I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 18:13

@endgame wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????
Well..yes, I can imagine how fustrating it is for those that have followed the case since the beginning. The PJ were wary at first when SY started the review I would think (and who can blame them) Im hoping they are coming round to the idea that this is not an attack on their original investigation, but a need to find the truth.
I think the Portuguese, far from having "come around", are well aware that the Met are only interested in an abduction and, as a consequence, are only co-operating to the minimum level required under international law
Yes AndyB. All their statements about protocol and process suggest this. Who are we to disbelieve them? What evidence is there that the PJ also are engaged in the biggest game of bluff ever devised in the history of bluffing?
SY have every right to open an investigation without PJ, any suspect can be tried aswell...but, there are discrepancies, as to what can be included, if a case has been 'shelved' elsewhere..id suggest people look into this before judging the current investigation...the fact that they are even trying to engage PJ in this (which they are) , speaks for itself.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 18:29

@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@endgame wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????
Well..yes, I can imagine how fustrating it is for those that have followed the case since the beginning. The PJ were wary at first when SY started the review I would think (and who can blame them) Im hoping they are coming round to the idea that this is not an attack on their original investigation, but a need to find the truth.
I think the Portuguese, far from having "come around", are well aware that the Met are only interested in an abduction and, as a consequence, are only co-operating to the minimum level required under international law
Yes AndyB. All their statements about protocol and process suggest this. Who are we to disbelieve them? What evidence is there that the PJ also are engaged in the biggest game of bluff ever devised in the history of bluffing?
SY have every right to open an investigation without PJ, any suspect can be tried aswell...but, there are discrepancies, as to what can be included, if a case has been 'shelved' elsewhere
Scotland yard can indeed investigate anything but IMO they should only investigate where proceedings can be brought in the UK. There is only a very limited set of crimes committed abroad that can be tried in the UK (and abduction isn't one of them). Unless they are investigating one of these crimes they will be reliant on the Portuguese authorities to prosecute in Portugal.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 18:30

Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 19:14

@AndyB wrote:
@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@endgame wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Aye a review was requested TBK you are right, but why not start with the statements instead of working freakin backwards????
Well..yes, I can imagine how fustrating it is for those that have followed the case since the beginning. The PJ were wary at first when SY started the review I would think (and who can blame them) Im hoping they are coming round to the idea that this is not an attack on their original investigation, but a need to find the truth.
I think the Portuguese, far from having "come around", are well aware that the Met are only interested in an abduction and, as a consequence, are only co-operating to the minimum level required under international law
Yes AndyB. All their statements about protocol and process suggest this. Who are we to disbelieve them? What evidence is there that the PJ also are engaged in the biggest game of bluff ever devised in the history of bluffing?
SY have every right to open an investigation without PJ, any suspect can be tried aswell...but, there are discrepancies, as to what can be included, if a case has been 'shelved' elsewhere
Scotland yard can indeed investigate anything but IMO they should only investigate where proceedings can be brought in the UK. There is only a very limited set of crimes committed abroad that can be tried in the UK (and abduction isn't one of them). Unless they are investigating one of these crimes they will be reliant on the Portuguese authorities to prosecute in Portugal.
Thank-you AndyB. I think you summed that up far better then I did big grin  But they ARE trying to engage PJ, and I feel that is importnat here, that has been shown in portuguese reporting aswell, if someone can find the recent statement by PJ saying that they had been contacted by SY? Its here somewhere?. They did try to get rights to show CW but I feel were thwarted by current circumstance (TV1 being in the libel case with McCanns) so rights were refused.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 19:15

@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...

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