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Met boss defends Portuguese police

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Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 12:34

In todays news: Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has defended the way Portuguese police handled the initial investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
 
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/met-boss-defends-mccann-case-police-101425109.html

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 12:53

@thetruthbeknown wrote:In todays news: Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has defended the way Portuguese police handled the initial investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/met-boss-defends-mccann-case-police-101425109.html
Thank you, have moved to latest news as some may not see it, although you put it in right place thumbsup  it is latest news, so will move it back later.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by margaret on 23.10.13 12:54

Just came to post it thanks Candyfloss.

Good news a little bit more pressure!! Mrs

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by endgame on 23.10.13 13:04

Regrettably yet again Hogan Howe reiterates that the purpose of the investigation is to end the parents' torture. Not to end Madeleine's torture or to save Madeleine from the hellish lair or to solve any crime that may have been committed or to bring to justice any perpetrators but to end the parents' torture. There I think you have the whole investigation summed up in a nutshell.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Sockpuppet on 23.10.13 13:06

I've seen a lot of ex-Met detectives on TV talking about the 'bungled' Portuguese investigation.

I wonder whether this a move towards splitting the investigation into two:

1. The proper investigation headed by Amaral

and

2. The 'bungled' investigation headed by Rebello.

This would, if the McCanns become suspects again, allow all the previous comments to stand.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Sockpuppet on 23.10.13 13:10

@endgame wrote:Regrettably yet again Hogan Howe reiterates that the purpose of the investigation is to end the parents' torture. Not to end Madeleine's torture or to save Madeleine from the hellish lair or to solve any crime that may have been committed or to bring to justice any perpetrators but to end the parents' torture. There I think you have the whole investigation summed up in a nutshell.
Perhaps arresting them would end the torture of having to keep up the lie? ;-)

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Okeydokey on 23.10.13 13:10

At least the DJ is playing another record.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 13:12

@endgame wrote:Regrettably yet again Hogan Howe reiterates that the purpose of the investigation is to end the parents' torture. Not to end Madeleine's torture or to save Madeleine from the hellish lair or to solve any crime that may have been committed or to bring to justice any perpetrators but to end the parents' torture. There I think you have the whole investigation summed up in a nutshell.
***
I always try to read between the lines. Ending the parents' torture could also mean ending their self-inflicted torture of 6,5 years of feeling guilt and having to have back-cover constantly. The early morning knock on the door might end that ... This is no statement, just a meandering. He would never go on record saying, that he knows who did "it" before there's enough evidence to bring the case to court, now would he?
Expressing confidence in the PJ investigation is a good thing and will, as may have been the purpose, help to establish and/or maintain good working relationship between two entities.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 13:20

Châtelaine wrote:
@endgame wrote:Regrettably yet again Hogan Howe reiterates that the purpose of the investigation is to end the parents' torture. Not to end Madeleine's torture or to save Madeleine from the hellish lair or to solve any crime that may have been committed or to bring to justice any perpetrators but to end the parents' torture. There I think you have the whole investigation summed up in a nutshell.
***
I always try to read between the lines. Ending the parents' torture could also mean ending their self-inflicted torture of 6,5 years of feeling guilt and having to have back-cover constantly. The early morning knock on the door might end that ... This is no statement, just a meandering. He would never go on record saying, that he knows who did "it" before there's enough evidence to bring the case to court, now would he?
Expressing confidence in the PJ investigation is a good thing and will, as may have been the purpose, help to establish and/or maintain good working relationship between two entities.
I'm reading it the same as you, Chatelaine, and I believe the Met have been working in close co-operation with the PJ to bring this case to an end.

Does anyone know when the Irish edition of CW will be aired?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by bobbin on 23.10.13 13:26

@Sockpuppet wrote:I've seen a lot of ex-Met detectives on TV talking about the 'bungled' Portuguese investigation.

I wonder whether this a move towards splitting the investigation into two:

1. The proper investigation headed by Amaral

and

2. The 'bungled' investigation headed by Rebello.


This would, if the McCanns become suspects again, allow all the previous comments to stand.
This would also be very helpful for Gonçalo Amaral at this particular moment in his defense against the McCs libel attack. spin 

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by margaret on 23.10.13 13:27

Châtelaine wrote:***
I always try to read between the lines. Ending the parents' torture could also mean ending their self-inflicted torture of 6,5 years of feeling guilt and having to have back-cover constantly. The early morning knock on the door might end that ... This is no statement, just a meandering. He would never go on record saying, that he knows who did "it" before there's enough evidence to bring the case to court, now would he?
Expressing confidence in the PJ investigation is a good thing and will, as may have been the purpose, help to establish and/or maintain good working relationship between two entities.
That's how l'm reading it, l think it's good news

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by endgame on 23.10.13 13:30

Châtelaine wrote:
@endgame wrote:Regrettably yet again Hogan Howe reiterates that the purpose of the investigation is to end the parents' torture. Not to end Madeleine's torture or to save Madeleine from the hellish lair or to solve any crime that may have been committed or to bring to justice any perpetrators but to end the parents' torture. There I think you have the whole investigation summed up in a nutshell.
***
I always try to read between the lines. Ending the parents' torture could also mean ending their self-inflicted torture of 6,5 years of feeling guilt and having to have back-cover constantly. The early morning knock on the door might end that ... This is no statement, just a meandering. He would never go on record saying, that he knows who did "it" before there's enough evidence to bring the case to court, now would he?
Expressing confidence in the PJ investigation is a good thing and will, as may have been the purpose, help to establish and/or maintain good working relationship between two entities.
I prefer to listen to what people actually say rather than believe them to have said what I would have liked them to have said. He has not expressed any confidence in the Portuguese investigation at all. If he had done, he would have concluded that Madeleine died in the apartment. He has merely said "well we all make mistakes" and then goes on to say that the PJ were mistaken to have picked on Bundleman as their focus which is a complete misrepresentation of the truth.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.10.13 13:32

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/met-boss-defends-mccann-case-police-101425109.html#ZG2EphQ

Met boss defends McCann case police
Press Association – 2 hours 10 minutes ago

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has defended the way Portuguese police handled the initial investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The country's most senior officer said it would have been "very difficult" for officers in Praia da Luz to know whether they were dealing with a serious crime immediately after the little girl vanished.
Speaking on LBC 97.3 this morning, he said: "I think sometimes these things at the beginning can be very difficult to deal with, you don't know exactly if the child has just wandered off. It can be very difficult to know if you've got a very serious crime.
" I'm sure for them that must have been a challenge. Anybody can go back after two, three, five, six years and say 'why didn't you do that'?
"That's easy in hindsight.
"We don't like it when it happens to the Met, and I'm certainly not going to do it to the Portuguese. What I'm determined to do is to work together to make sure we've got the best chance to now try to get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy.
"There is a poor family there who've got the torture of not knowing whether their daughter is alive or not."
H e said the discovery of two blonde-haired, blue-eyed girls living with Roma families in Ireland and Greece has not had any "direct impact" on the investigation, but added: "It looks like there's a possibility that around the world there are occasions when people steal children and keep them.
"And I'm sure in one sense that's what the McCanns must be hoping, that at least their child is alive.
"The other possibility is that sadly she's not alive, and either way we want to try and end the torture that they're going through."
Scotland Yard is now running its own investigation into what happened to Madeleine, who went missing from a holiday apartment on May 3 2007 as her parents dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends. The Portuguese inquiry was shelved in 2008.
Refreshed appeals were made last week as part of the British investigation, with Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood appearing on television in the UK, Holland and Germany.
He revealed that his team had discounted a previous sighting by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner, which was thought to be an abductor carrying Madeleine away and had been put at the centre of the Portuguese investigation.
His team managed to track down the man - an innocent British holidaymaker - and instead decided to focus on a second suspect who was also seen with a child in his arms.
Officers also said they would like to trace a number of fair-haired men who were seen lurking near the apartment at the time, and are looking at a surge in burglaries in the area as well as bogus charity collectors.
An appeal is due to air on Irish television later this month.
....................................................................................................
"Officers also said they would like to trace a number of fair-haired men who were seen lurking near the apartment at the time, and are looking at a surge in burglaries in the area"

THAT would be burglars that DON'T take 'anything of VALUE' (wallets, passports, money, watches, cameras etc) from apartments!
...................................................................................................

Can all of the many TV 'reporters' seen standing outside apartment 5A, in recent times, also be described as 'LURKERS'?
Just a thought!

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 13:45

Most if it is par course..what we would of expected to hear at this stage. Lets not forget that having the support of the McCanns/Tapas group at this present time is crucial, it would become a difficult investigation if they decided to withdraw co-operation.

The part I was pleased to read was this:


What I'm determined to do is to work together to make sure we've got the best chance to now try to get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Truthandjustice on 23.10.13 13:58

Have to agree with endgame here. Hogan-Howe is not defending the PJ actually, he is saying he can understand the reasons why they bungled it which is not the same thing at all.  Again he is re-iterating that the parents don't know if their child is alive or dead which is effectively ignoring the PJ findings.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Cristobell on 23.10.13 14:22

@thetruthbeknown wrote:In todays news: Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has defended the way Portuguese police handled the initial investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
 
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/met-boss-defends-mccann-case-police-101425109.html
What about the torture they are putting us through? nah 

They really do seem to be bending over backwards to portray the parents as living saints.  An anti, put the German CW on twitter, I'll see if I can find it and put it here, unless someone beats me to it.  Obviously it is in German, but there are different scenes to the ones we were given by the BBC.  For example, there are many 'all happy families together' shots, the parents with the kids, getting off the coach, playing tennis with them, and sitting with them by the pool - it seems their placing them in the creche and kids clubs every day has been written out of the story.  It also writes out all the holiday party's activities for the week, and of course, anyone who may have 'watching' them for the previous 5 days.  But hey ho, we know the CW reconstruction is far from reality, we just don't as yet know why.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 14:39

@Cristobell wrote:
@thetruthbeknown wrote:In todays news: Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has defended the way Portuguese police handled the initial investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
 
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/met-boss-defends-mccann-case-police-101425109.html
What about the torture they are putting us through? nah 

They really do seem to be bending over backwards to portray the parents as living saints.  An anti, put the German CW on twitter, I'll see if I can find it and put it here, unless someone beats me to it.  Obviously it is in German, but there are different scenes to the ones we were given by the BBC.  For example, there are many 'all happy families together' shots, the parents with the kids, getting off the coach, playing tennis with them, and sitting with them by the pool - it seems their placing them in the creche and kids clubs every day has been written out of the story.  It also writes out all the holiday party's activities for the week, and of course, anyone who may have 'watching' them for the previous 5 days.  But hey ho, we know the CW reconstruction is far from reality, we just don't as yet know why.
It's on Page 6 on the German Version of Crimewatch thread Cristobell, here it is....
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PqA-ZTjG5Q


ETA   The McCann segment starts at 1.19

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by susible on 23.10.13 14:58

I think it is a good thing, it's yet another step in the right direction.  Hogan-Howe can hardly come out and say well we think the Portuguese police were right all along and these conniving parents deserve all they get...

SY have to be very careful, methodical and precise if they are truly going to get to the bottom of this saga and actually secure a conviction, and so far they are taking it step by step, review turned to investigation, CW appeal that dismisses Tanner sighting and now saying the Portuguese handled the case very well!  I also noticed the article referred to the Portuguese investigation as being shelved...not closed!  Now that's a first!

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes the total negativity that SY are helping the Mc's cover up a crime etc is quite annoying, because if we all truly believed that, then there's little point in any of us being here and we might as well all sit here posting recipes and gardening tips for all the difference that it makes.  I know that many are impatient for action, but it could be some time before all of the necessary Evidence is gathered, enough evidence to actually secure a conviction.  SY know this and I imagine will be quite happy to let the charade continue if it means they achieve their goal, and they have stated quite clearly what that goal is and that is to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann, and I believe that they probably know everything that we know right now, more possibly, but it takes time to build a successful case, particularly one as complex as this one.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Truthandjustice on 23.10.13 15:10

@susible wrote:I think it is a good thing, it's yet another step in the right direction.  Hogan-Howe can hardly come out and say well we think the Portuguese police were right all along and these conniving parents deserve all they get...

SY have to be very careful, methodical and precise if they are truly going to get to the bottom of this saga and actually secure a conviction, and so far they are taking it step by step, review turned to investigation, CW appeal that dismisses Tanner sighting and now saying the Portuguese handled the case very well!  I also noticed the article referred to the Portuguese investigation as being shelved...not closed!  Now that's a first!

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes the total negativity that SY are helping the Mc's cover up a crime etc is quite annoying, because if we all truly believed that, then there's little point in any of us being here and we might as well all sit here posting recipes and gardening tips for all the difference that it makes.  I know that many are impatient for action, but it could be some time before all of the necessary Evidence is gathered, enough evidence to actually secure a conviction.  SY know this and I imagine will be quite happy to let the charade continue if it means they achieve their goal, and they have stated quite clearly what that goal is and that is to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann, and I believe that they probably know everything that we know right now, more possibly, but it takes time to build a successful case, particularly one as complex as this one.
Yeah, I take your point about being positive.  I was reading an old news article from 2007 that criticised the PJ for not securing enough evidence before they arguidoed the Mcs and trying to force a confession out of them.  Perhaps you are right about SY gathering sufficient evidence, I certainly hope so.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by endgame on 23.10.13 15:12

@susible wrote:I think it is a good thing, it's yet another step in the right direction.  Hogan-Howe can hardly come out and say well we think the Portuguese police were right all along and these conniving parents deserve all they get...

SY have to be very careful, methodical and precise if they are truly going to get to the bottom of this saga and actually secure a conviction, and so far they are taking it step by step, review turned to investigation, CW appeal that dismisses Tanner sighting and now saying the Portuguese handled the case very well!  I also noticed the article referred to the Portuguese investigation as being shelved...not closed!  Now that's a first!

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes the total negativity that SY are helping the Mc's cover up a crime etc is quite annoying, because if we all truly believed that, then there's little point in any of us being here and we might as well all sit here posting recipes and gardening tips for all the difference that it makes.  I know that many are impatient for action, but it could be some time before all of the necessary Evidence is gathered, enough evidence to actually secure a conviction.  SY know this and I imagine will be quite happy to let the charade continue if it means they achieve their goal, and they have stated quite clearly what that goal is and that is to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann, and I believe that they probably know everything that we know right now, more possibly, but it takes time to build a successful case, particularly one as complex as this one.
I refer you to my comments above. Where does Hogan-Howe say or even suggest that the PJ "handled the case very well"? He says they made mistakes and they were wrong to have focused on the Tanner sighting. The narrative underlying his comments appears to be "The PJ messed up but hey we all do from time to time. I'm not blaming them for that but now we've come along and we're correcting all their mistakes."
Their "goal" is to relieve the parents' torture.

I would truly love to believe everything you say, and sincerely hope that you are right and I am wrong, but it is based on nothing more than surmise and wishful thinking. The facts of everything they have done, not done, said, not said point in exactly the opposite direction.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 15:32

Hogan-Howe says he wants to find out what HAPPENED to Madeleine, not by whom and how she was ABDUCTED.

FYI you may know that the PJ claimed McCs were NOT suspects - only days before they were reeled in for extensive interrogation and made "Arguidos" ...

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 15:35

"Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has defended the way Portuguese police handled the initial investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The country's most senior officer said it would have been "very difficult" for officers in Praia da Luz to know whether they were dealing with a serious crime immediately after the little girl vanished.
Speaking on LBC 97.3 this morning, he said: "I think sometimes these things at the beginning can be very difficult to deal with, you don't know exactly if the child has just wandered off. It can be very difficult to know if you've got a very serious crime.

Speaking on LBC 97.3 this morning, he said: "I think sometimes these things at the beginning can be very difficult to deal with, you don't know exactly if the child has just wandered off. It can be very difficult to know if you've got a very serious crime."

In the case of a missing child the UK police don't immediately seek to turn its parents' or carers' homes into crime scenes, nor do they do so without good cause.    

" I'm sure for them that must have been a challenge. Anybody can go back after two, three, five, six years and say 'why didn't you do that'?
"That's easy in hindsight.

"We don't like it when it happens to the Met, and I'm certainly not going to do it to the Portuguese." 

Serving police officers around the world are well aware of the complexities of the job and they don't rubbish the work of their international colleagues, nor do they disparage methods of working which may be different to their own due to the laws prevailing in other countries.   

"What I'm determined to do is to work together to make sure we've got the best chance to now try to get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy."

I have no doubt the Met and the PJ have been working closely together throughout. I also have no doubt that, if he wasn't aware beforehand, the PJ quickly brought Andy Redwood up to speed with regard to the characters of those he would be required to deal with in order "to get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy."

SY knows their reputation is on the line and their political masters know that, after the expenditure of millions on this and other high profile investigations, failure to produce tangible results may be reflected at the next election.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 23.10.13 15:41

OT : does anyone know if Rebekha Brooks will testify in her upcoming court case?
She said last year that there would be some important news around this time.

It's complete speculation, but I've sometimes wondered whether she pushed for a Met review, because she has inside information and being a CEO of a big Media corporation then, would know that the "Maddie"-story as it has been going on for more than 6 years now, might soon dry up. A solution of the most famous crime case in history, though ...

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 15:56

@endgame wrote:
@susible wrote:I think it is a good thing, it's yet another step in the right direction.  Hogan-Howe can hardly come out and say well we think the Portuguese police were right all along and these conniving parents deserve all they get...

SY have to be very careful, methodical and precise if they are truly going to get to the bottom of this saga and actually secure a conviction, and so far they are taking it step by step, review turned to investigation, CW appeal that dismisses Tanner sighting and now saying the Portuguese handled the case very well!  I also noticed the article referred to the Portuguese investigation as being shelved...not closed!  Now that's a first!

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes the total negativity that SY are helping the Mc's cover up a crime etc is quite annoying, because if we all truly believed that, then there's little point in any of us being here and we might as well all sit here posting recipes and gardening tips for all the difference that it makes.  I know that many are impatient for action, but it could be some time before all of the necessary Evidence is gathered, enough evidence to actually secure a conviction.  SY know this and I imagine will be quite happy to let the charade continue if it means they achieve their goal, and they have stated quite clearly what that goal is and that is to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann, and I believe that they probably know everything that we know right now, more possibly, but it takes time to build a successful case, particularly one as complex as this one.
I refer you to my comments above. Where does Hogan-Howe say or even suggest that the PJ "handled the case very well"? He says they made mistakes and they were wrong to have focused on the Tanner sighting. The narrative underlying his comments appears to be "The PJ messed up but hey we all do from time to time. I'm not blaming them for that but now we've come along and we're correcting all their mistakes."
Their "goal" is to relieve the parents' torture.

I would truly love to believe everything you say, and sincerely hope that you are right and I am wrong, but it is based on nothing more than surmise and wishful thinking. The facts of everything they have done, not done, said, not said point in exactly the opposite direction.
It is not a fully opened criminal investigation yet as far as im aware..its a review that has turned into an 'investigation' we have just moved a step closer to the case being 'reopened' which needs new evidence. At this point not only will SY have to keep the McCanns/Tapas group onboard, they also will have to convince the Portugal side that the case is worth reopening on their ground too. A very very difficult task on all counts. This is how I understand the current situation..If I am wrong then feel free to say so, im no supersleuth big grin

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 15:57

What hasn't been made clear is whether any agreement has been reached with Portugal to waive their jurisdiction in the case of Madeleine McCann.  

If not, and in the event sufficient evidence is obtained to support criminal charges against a suspected perpetrator who is resident in the UK, it's unlikely the Met has power of arrest without due process of extradition proceedings by the Portuguese judiciary.

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