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**NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by lj on 22.10.13 17:01

@oakeso wrote:http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/blonde-girl-7-taken-from-roma-family-in-dublin-29686005.html


Gardai also consulted experts to establish if it was physically possible for a Roma couple to give birth to a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes.
Using powers available under section 12 of the Child Care Act, a garda sergeant took the girl from the couple and handed her over to the HSE.
An application for an emergency child care order was made this morning in the district court.
The girl can be kept in the care of the HSE for another month and the authorities must then either hand the girl back to the family or seek a more permanent care order.
In the meantime, gardai hope to take DNA samples from the parents and from the girl to establish if they are related.
So much for the DNA already shown she was not their daughter.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by lj on 22.10.13 17:02

@admin wrote:
@oakeso wrote:http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/blonde-girl-7-taken-from-roma-family-in-dublin-29686005.html


Gardai also consulted experts to establish if it was physically possible for a Roma couple to give birth to a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes.
Using powers available under section 12 of the Child Care Act, a garda sergeant took the girl from the couple and handed her over to the HSE.
An application for an emergency child care order was made this morning in the district court.
The girl can be kept in the care of the HSE for another month and the authorities must then either hand the girl back to the family or seek a more permanent care order.
In the meantime, gardai hope to take DNA samples from the parents and from the girl to establish if they are related.
I don't know why the checks and tests can't be made whilst leaving the girl with her family, as long as she is happy and healthy - because now she must be quite traumatised.

thumbup 

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by lj on 22.10.13 17:07

@oakeso wrote:
@MRNOODLES wrote:Whiffs a bit of ethnic cleansing.  How the hell can these lower order races produce Aryan offspring?  Bonkers.
That's what I've been thinking all day, MRNOODLES. I can't bring myself to even talk about it.

I think the real core of the Madeleine case is as racists as this one. British superiority is under attack when 2 of British brightest are being made suspects of a crime by a group of swarthy, sweating, wine (NOT NEW ZEALAND wine so a real sin here) gobbling, sardine munchers.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by tasprin on 22.10.13 17:22

Does it matter if these stories fuel racism and victimise others - if they give the McCanns hope and a headline, that's what's really important surely?

I see the US 'cadaver dog' parents of Lisa Irwin are equally hopeful about the blonde child in Greece. Now that another child has been found in Ireland, perhaps they'll be doubly so.

My dark haired Italian sister-in-law has two blonde children. I've advised her to stay at home until the libel trial is over.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Guest on 22.10.13 17:24

Lisa Irwin's parents can't be the brightest stars in the sky if they really think that the 5 or 6 year old found in Greece can be their daughter who would be 3 next month!

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Guest on 22.10.13 17:44

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Lisa Irwin's parents can't be the brightest stars in the sky if they really think that the 5 or 6 year old found in Greece can be their daughter who would be 3 next month!
***
They aren't, NFWTD. And as for wine gobbling ... look at the mother and her [t.v.] statements.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by margaret on 22.10.13 17:48

@mouse wrote:So these reports say that the family had other children...Obviously these kiddie were either male/non blue eyed blonde haired - so were not taken in. I'm sorry Margaret - I can't agree with you. If this child was taken into care because she didn't look like her family, no DNA test was taken, then I think to take her away from the rest of this family will cause distress to the child, the parents and the rest of the children. If, on the other hand, there was a case of neglect here - then all the children surely should have been taken into care and DNA tested?

Or didn't they fit the brief?
The Sunday World newspaper reported that a birth certificate was believed to have eventually been produced but officers were not satisfied with it.
The paper reported that although the couple claimed the child was born in the Coombe hospital in Dublin in 2006, the hospital had no record of the child being born on the date quoted by the parents.


Not just the fact that she doesn't look like the rest of the family, they can't prove she is theirs either.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by tasprin on 22.10.13 17:52

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Lisa Irwin's parents can't be the brightest stars in the sky if they really think that the 5 or 6 year old found in Greece can be their daughter who would be 3 next month!
Well, I guess they've learnt how to jump on every passing bandwagon no matter how preposterous. They'll align themselves with the tragic circumstances of any poor kid just to gain themselves a 'hopeful' headline.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by mouse on 22.10.13 17:59

@margaret wrote:
@mouse wrote:So these reports say that the family had other children...Obviously these kiddie were either male/non blue eyed blonde haired - so were not taken in. I'm sorry Margaret - I can't agree with you. If this child was taken into care because she didn't look like her family, no DNA test was taken, then I think to take her away from the rest of this family will cause distress to the child, the parents and the rest of the children. If, on the other hand, there was a case of neglect here - then all the children surely should have been taken into care and DNA tested?

Or didn't they fit the brief?
The Sunday World newspaper reported that a birth certificate was believed to have eventually been produced but officers were not satisfied with it.
The paper reported that although the couple claimed the child was born in the Coombe hospital in Dublin in 2006, the hospital had no record of the child being born on the date quoted by the parents.


Not just the fact that she doesn't look like the rest of the family, they can't prove she is theirs either.
But they did produce a birth certificate eventually....surely best to wait until DNA tests are done. And did they request birth certificates for the other kiddies? The non-blondes?

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Guest on 22.10.13 18:25

@tasprin wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Lisa Irwin's parents can't be the brightest stars in the sky if they really think that the 5 or 6 year old found in Greece can be their daughter who would be 3 next month!
Well, I guess they've learnt how to jump on every passing bandwagon no matter how preposterous. They'll align themselves with the tragic circumstances of any poor kid just to gain themselves a 'hopeful' headline.  
Now, who could they possibly have learnt that off?

thinking

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by pennylane on 22.10.13 18:33

@tasprin wrote:Does it matter if these stories fuel racism and victimise others - if they give the McCanns hope and a headline, that's what's really important surely?

I see the US 'cadaver dog' parents of Lisa Irwin are equally hopeful about the blonde child in Greece. Now that another child has been found in Ireland, perhaps they'll be doubly so.

My dark haired Italian sister-in-law has two blonde children. I've advised her to stay at home until the libel trial is over.
Oh yes, good advice, tasprin.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Stevienix on 22.10.13 18:39

@mouse wrote:
@margaret wrote:
@mouse wrote:So these reports say that the family had other children...Obviously these kiddie were either male/non blue eyed blonde haired - so were not taken in. I'm sorry Margaret - I can't agree with you. If this child was taken into care because she didn't look like her family, no DNA test was taken, then I think to take her away from the rest of this family will cause distress to the child, the parents and the rest of the children. If, on the other hand, there was a case of neglect here - then all the children surely should have been taken into care and DNA tested?

Or didn't they fit the brief?
The Sunday World newspaper reported that a birth certificate was believed to have eventually been produced but officers were not satisfied with it.
The paper reported that although the couple claimed the child was born in the Coombe hospital in Dublin in 2006, the hospital had no record of the child being born on the date quoted by the parents.


But they did produce a birth certificate eventually....surely best to wait until DNA tests are done. And did they request birth certificates for the other kiddies? The non-blondes?
Mouse it's not even that they couldn't produce a valid birth certificate - it's that the hospital that. They claim she was born in has no record of her birth. Irish Maternity Hospitals are just like English ones - they keep exact records and they're archived.

Also it's very hard to have a child removed from their family here, and a district court judge wouldn't approve a temporary care order unless it was warranted.

Roma are represented by Pavee Point, who also represent Irish travellers - they're very well represented here.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by tigger on 22.10.13 18:45

Imo this is nothing but an organised assault to silence all those who dare to say Maddie will never be found. 

This Irish fairy tale is yet another banana for the monkey cage to squabble over. Keeps them busy. .

It's all part of the larger offensive  launched earlier this year. Ignoring it would be best, concentrating on the very good evidence  we have to counter these myths would be better. 

These are professionals  in PR - they don't wait until something happens and then use it to their advantage. 
They make it happen

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by mouse on 22.10.13 18:45

@Stevienix wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@margaret wrote:
@mouse wrote:So these reports say that the family had other children...Obviously these kiddie were either male/non blue eyed blonde haired - so were not taken in. I'm sorry Margaret - I can't agree with you. If this child was taken into care because she didn't look like her family, no DNA test was taken, then I think to take her away from the rest of this family will cause distress to the child, the parents and the rest of the children. If, on the other hand, there was a case of neglect here - then all the children surely should have been taken into care and DNA tested?

Or didn't they fit the brief?
The Sunday World newspaper reported that a birth certificate was believed to have eventually been produced but officers were not satisfied with it.
The paper reported that although the couple claimed the child was born in the Coombe hospital in Dublin in 2006, the hospital had no record of the child being born on the date quoted by the parents.


But they did produce a birth certificate eventually....surely best to wait until DNA tests are done. And did they request birth certificates for the other kiddies? The non-blondes?
Mouse it's not even that they couldn't produce a valid birth certificate - it's that the hospital that. They claim she was born in has no record of her birth. Irish Maternity Hospitals are just like English ones - they keep exact records and they're archived.

Also it's very hard to have a child removed from their family here, and a district court judge wouldn't approve a temporary care order unless it was warranted.

Roma are represented by Pavee Point, who also represent Irish travellers - they're very well represented here.
I hear what you're saying stevienix - but surely this case should have been treated more sensitively  - not splashed all over the media as it has been. And I've just heard on the radio that there is much caution on this issue now, as the parents have not been arrested and are still insisting that it is their child. 

Also heard now that Greece are thinking of checking all children's birth certificates born the last five years. Wow! for a country that doesn't have much money - that's going to be some mighty expensive time-consuming task! More, probably a knee jerk reaction, and one that probably won't take place.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Prehensile on 22.10.13 19:16

Think how blond haired Gypsy's must be thinking at reading this tripe.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Stevienix on 22.10.13 19:19

Mouse the case was actually reported to the police by a news station. The neighbour who reported the blonde child had asked them what to do after the Maria case exploded...was she concerned or racist who knows? But as its a child protection issue the guards have to take it seriously ...and as both passport and birth cert not valid enough to pass garda scrutiny then obviously they had to act.

I work in social care and you wouldn't believe how hard it is to have children taken from their families...even when they are the worst of the worst heroin addicts. The irish constitution recognises the family as the most important place for the child (for better or worse unfortunately). 

IMO if the initial contact hadn't been made to a tv station we wouldn't be hearing about this - but EVERY red top loves a Roma bashing story, so I'm expecting more *sigh*


It has changed people's opinions on the mccann a...lots of people saying that this proves she's still out there. They'll never be brought to justice...sorry for any typos on iPhone!

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by tasprin on 22.10.13 19:21

How covenient that the media have managed to pull this out of the hat just prior to DCI Redwood's planned appearance on Irish TV with the McCanns. It makes you think there is a massive push to brainwash the public into believing in a 'benign' abduction (and if the Greek photos are anything to go by, Maddie will have a nice bedroom as well.)

Are we now duty bound to call the police if we see a blonde child with dark haired 'parents'? What do we do if we spot a dark haired child with blonde 'parents'? Does it all depend on whether they're 'foreign' looking, or swarthy, or scruffy, or what?

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Stevienix on 22.10.13 19:21

It was tv3 if you want to have a look they have a free player :)

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by oakeso on 22.10.13 19:32

@Stevienix wrote:Mouse the case was actually reported to the police by a news station. The neighbour who reported the blonde child had asked them what to do after the Maria case exploded...was she concerned or racist who knows? But as its a child protection issue the guards have to take it seriously ...and as both passport and birth cert not valid enough to pass garda scrutiny then obviously they had to act.

I work in social care and you wouldn't believe how hard it is to have children taken from their families...even when they are the worst of the worst heroin addicts. The irish constitution recognises the family as the most important place for the child (for better or worse unfortunately). 

IMO if the initial contact hadn't been made to a tv station we wouldn't be hearing about this - but EVERY red top loves a Roma bashing story, so I'm expecting more *sigh*


It has changed people's opinions on the mccann a...lots of people saying that this proves she's still out there. They'll never be brought to justice...sorry for any typos on iPhone!
She was removed under section 12 of the child care act - where a garda can remove a child without a warrant. 

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/act/pub/0017/sec0012.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1022/481996-dublin-child/

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by mouse on 22.10.13 19:40

@tasprin wrote:
Are we now duty bound to call the police if we see a blonde child with dark haired 'parents'? What do we do if we spot a dark haired child with blonde 'parents'? Does it all depend on whether they're 'foreign' looking, or swarthy, or scruffy, or what?
Perhaps so - if we're seen to be doing our duty. And where do redheads stand in all this. Seriously - it's starting to get hysterical now, and just think, anyone who wants to sell a story will be onto the newspapers quicksmart - about somebody they've seen in a local park/swimming pool/bus with a child who looks nothing like them, perhaps blurred CCTV will be supplied?...No matter that this child might be with a child minder, be adopted, come from a sperm doner. Some one in my family has had to go down the Sperm donor path, for complicated reasons I won't go into - but the child has blonde to fair hair - the complete opposite to the parents who are both dark haired.

Thanks Stevienicks for the info - I wait to see what happens on this, but I'm sceptical as our police force are not exactly trusted nowadays, nor our child protection here in the UK (not that that goes for all of them of course).And anyone who is old enough to remember 'The Cleveland child sex abuse scandal' in 1987 - will remember that these were child protection experts removing many children from their families.  Sadly, I believe the repercussions from all of this are still being felt today.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by noddy100 on 22.10.13 20:06

All so obvious This is paving the way for the whitewash of all whitewashes
Drill the public on the 'evil child snatching gypsies' and then find a dead one 
to pin Madelene's disappearance on sad

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by oakeso on 22.10.13 20:20

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-dont-know-why-she-was-taken-sister-of-blonde-girl-7-removed-from-roma-family-29686797.html


Speaking today, the sister of the girl taken from the Tallaght house insisted that she belonged there and had lived with them since the day she was born in April 2006.
"I don't know why she as taken. There were over ten police and social services came to the house at three o'clock on Monday," said the young 21-year-old woman.
The young woman said her sister goes to a local school in the area, and was watching television when the authorities called.
"She was in the living room watching children's programme on TV, and when the police came my parents asked why do you have to take our daughter and they said we think she does not belong here," she explained.
The young woman said her parents had gone to court to fight for their daughter, and taken all their photographs of her with them to prove she has lived with them all her life.
She said they had come from Romania in 2001 but had lived in Tallaght since 2009.
"My little brother also has blonde hair and blue eyes," the young woman explained.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Seek truth on 22.10.13 21:03

@tasprin wrote:How covenient that the media have managed to pull this out of the hat just prior to DCI Redwood's planned appearance on Irish TV with the McCanns. It makes you think there is a massive push to brainwash the public into believing in a 'benign' abduction (and if the Greek photos are anything to go by, Maddie will have a nice bedroom as well.)

Are we now duty bound to call the police if we see a blonde child with dark haired 'parents'? What do we do if we spot a dark haired child with blonde 'parents'? Does it all depend on whether they're 'foreign' looking, or swarthy, or scruffy, or what?
And shameful! This is similar to kidnapping.
So lets remove Blonde girls from their homes, removing girls from parents they've been brought up with. If her hair was dyed darker on the ends ( because as they say, they dyed her hair some time ago) then why is there a picture of her with her hands dirty of the same colour she has on her hair? I'd like t know what it is, some kind of brown tint or  chocolate on her hands and end of her plaits?
Has Maria cried, is she missing the parents she was living with? These things they dont talk about. I saw on a front page of the sun, the woman taking care of her had tears in her eyes and her eyes were red holding onto Maria. Oh and by the way, I dont think they were making her dance for money, the photo of her with a blonde woman (who is dancing with a man) shows Maria STANDING there, NOT dancing, please find evidence first. Don't gipsies dance usually?

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by margaret on 22.10.13 21:19

@Seek truth wrote:
@tasprin wrote:How covenient that the media have managed to pull this out of the hat just prior to DCI Redwood's planned appearance on Irish TV with the McCanns. It makes you think there is a massive push to brainwash the public into believing in a 'benign' abduction (and if the Greek photos are anything to go by, Maddie will have a nice bedroom as well.)

Are we now duty bound to call the police if we see a blonde child with dark haired 'parents'? What do we do if we spot a dark haired child with blonde 'parents'? Does it all depend on whether they're 'foreign' looking, or swarthy, or scruffy, or what?
And shameful! This is similar to kidnapping.
So lets remove Blonde girls from their homes, removing girls from parents they've been brought up with. If her hair was dyed darker on the ends ( because as they say, they dyed her hair some time ago) then why is there a picture of her with her hands dirty of the same colour she has on her hair? I'd like t know what it is, some kind of brown tint or  chocolate on her hands and end of her plaits?
Has Maria cried, is she missing the parents she was living with? These things they dont talk about. I saw on a front page of the sun, the woman taking care of her had tears in her eyes and her eyes were red holding onto Maria. Oh and by the way, I dont think they were making her dance for money, the photo of her with a blonde woman (who is dancing with a man) shows Maria STANDING there, NOT dancing, please find evidence first. Don't gipsies dance usually?

.
Seek truth, this is a girl from Dublin, Ireland it happened today, it's not Maria in Greece.

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Re: **NEW** Roma children WERE their parents' AFTER ALL - Children wrongly removed and harmed [WAS: On News in Ireland today]

Post by Beanie on 22.10.13 21:22

Apologies if you all think I am going off topic.

Sadly, the way I see things going is that we are all being steered towards believing the supposed letter left by Raymond Hewlett to his estranged son on his deathbed. Madeleine was stolen to order by gypsies and Raymond just happened to know this.

All the evil acts Raymond Hewlett did over the course of his life he is in no way sorry for, but on his deathbed he needs to make a confession, to his son that he has not spoken to for 20 years, that he met a gypsy who got drunk and said Madeleine was stolen to order.

Sorry but nobody will brainwash me!

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