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FRAUDULENT FUND

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by russiandoll on 27.10.13 18:00

I have re read the Times  piece. Am I right in thinking that when the files were handed over to SY, certain items were missing, having been removed prior to handover?

 It is the only way I can make sense of SY not having sat on this info since the start of their review... I would have thought pretty much as soon as it began certain detectives were tasked with going through the PI stuff.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by PeterMac on 27.10.13 18:08

@russiandoll wrote:I have re read the Times piece. Am I right in thinking that when the files were handed over to SY, certain items were missing, having been removed prior to handover?
It is the only way I can make sense of SY not having sat on this info since the start of their review... I would have thought pretty much as soon as it began certain detectives were tasked with going through the PI stuff.
That is the interpretation I put on it, in the same way that the PJ only gave SY and the McCanns and the world certain parts of their information, and Leicester Police also held back vital parts even when the McCanns went to court to try to get everything.
The difference here is that thee were official bodies withholding information, for reasons to do with their part of the investigation .
The Fund's withholding anything of this nature may turn out to be a Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.

Is it coincidental that the McCanns joined the board of Directors at exactly this time ?

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Tangledweb on 27.10.13 18:11

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:It's a bloody disgrace.

When in the history of criminal justice, do witnesses and former suspects get to decide what evidence or information the police receive, or require written requests for information. When asked for a written request by the Fund SY should have issued a caution.

Couldn't agree more - the police shouldn't have had to write to request information.  If it was my child, the police would be sick of me giving them every snippet of every bit of information I had!  Bloody disgrace indeed. They've been treated with kid gloves and way too much respect from day one.  At the end of the day, they are at best guilty of neglect, and they've been feted like royalty.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Guest on 27.10.13 19:22

@PeterMac wrote: [...]
Is it coincidental that the McCanns joined the board of Directors at exactly this time ?
***
No, I don't think so.
It's obvious, isn't it?

But where did it get them? As I see it, only a couple of years respite ... And now, the hammer is coming down IMO

I've said it before, but I would be grateful to family taking in the twins for the next couple of weeks ...

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Guest on 27.10.13 19:24

The whole family is in it up to their necks in my opinion.

Those poor children - I don't think any of their relatives are fit to look after them.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by petunia on 27.10.13 19:27

Châtelaine wrote:
@PeterMac wrote: [...]
Is it coincidental that the McCanns joined the board of Directors at exactly this time ?
***
No, I don't think so.
It's obvious, isn't it?

But where did it get them? As I see it, only a couple of years respite ... And now, the hammer is coming down IMO

I've said it before, but I would be grateful to family taking in the twins for the next couple of weeks ...
poor poor twins your heart just has to go to them, one has to wonder what the future holds for them.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by tasprin on 27.10.13 19:28

Scotland Yard has revealed Jane Tanner's "Bundleman" to be an innocent holidaymaker, but that little matter has not stopped the Findamadeleine site from continuing to promote the man as Madeleine's abductor. How do they get away with it?

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by ultimaThule on 27.10.13 19:46

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:The whole family is in it up to their necks in my opinion.

Those poor children - I don't think any of their relatives are fit to look after them.
Those are my thoughts exactly. 

Even if their parents had been held to account for their sister's disappearance back in 2007, looking at the members of the McCann and Healy families who have invaded our living rooms for the past 6 years, I can't see one that I would leave a budgie with, let alone a child.   

They are all rotten through and through and, IMO, in it up to their necks.  Nothing will ever convince me that they didn't know what K&G had done to, and with, Madeleine and I will always believe they were in the loop from day 1, if not before.

What's gone on in those two families has been going on through generations and, frankly, with parents like the McCanns and relatives who are every bit as callous and uncaring as that despicable pair, the twins - and poor Madeleine too - never stood a chance of growing up to be all they could be if they had born into a loving and nurturing family environment.

I''ve been amusing myself by attempting to work out and list what charges will be made and who will be the recipients.  Suffice it to say the list is growing daily and the dock will be an exceptionally crowded one which will most probably need a reinforced floor big grin

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by PeterMac on 27.10.13 20:12

A long time ago some of us predicted that this would end up like Al Capone. About money.
Watch the family and follow the money.
until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.
is most telling.
The Fund, which means the Directors of the Fund, have to agree NOT to sue.
So the Fund = Directors for the past five years may have been committing the specific offence of withholding potentially valuable information,
not only from the PJ, and Leicester Police, but also from Scotland Yard.
This is capable of amounting to the offence of Perverting the Course of Justice
And since the Directors act as a committee, making agreements about their actions it would, ( potentially - Kevin - ) amount to
Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice,  for which the sentence can be Life imprisonment.

IN addition, there may be another count on the indictment.
That of Fraud, and by extension Conspiracy to Defraud
There must have been an agreement to continue to solicit funds, and make pleas for donations. Indeed the "Make a Donation button" was aded to the website relatively recently.
So we have the offence  ( potentially - Kevin - )  of "Falsely purporting that monies donated would be used for the continued search for Madeleine Beth McCann,
when in fact you, jointly and severally,were actively concealing valuable information from the investigating authorities in both Portugal and England"

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Beanie on 27.10.13 20:32

I assume the rest of the tapas are accountable for the cover up as well, so sadly more poor children having their lives turned upside down.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Guest on 27.10.13 20:33

It's needs PROOF that they knew she was dead, PeterMac.
Do they have that yet?
A hint is that one of their "mantras" is a repeated "There is no proof that she has come to harm" ...
Which falls into the category: "Well within the borders of responsible parenting."
There are strangely constructed phrases referring to actual law requirements ...

Apart from that, I've often been thinking too about  an "Al Capone" ...

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by aquila on 27.10.13 20:34

It will be very interesting to see the next set of accounts which I think are due to be filed by 31st December.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 27.10.13 20:42

Châtelaine wrote:It's needs PROOF that they knew she was dead, PeterMac.
Do they have that yet?
A hint is that one of their "mantras" is a repeated "There is no proof that she has come to harm" ...
Which falls into the category: "Well within the borders of responsible parenting."
There are strangely constructed phrases referring to actual law requirements ...

Apart from that, I've often been thinking too about  an "Al Capone" ...
I'm not certain that matters in this case, because they have been spouting off about things harming the search and suing left, right and centre about that, when they used lawyers to suppress information themselves. I think that is enough to slap something on them.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by PeterMac on 27.10.13 20:45

Châtelaine wrote:It's needs PROOF that they knew she was dead, PeterMac.
I don't think it does.
Their collective withholding of information from the enquiry teams, whether Madeleine was dead or alive, is still Perverting the Course of Justice. (possibly - Kevin)

If Madeleine WERE or HAD BEEN alive during that the time, that would exacerbate the crime - not mitigate it. They would then richly deserve the full sentence.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Guest on 27.10.13 20:48

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:It's needs PROOF that they knew she was dead, PeterMac. [...]
I'm not certain that matters in this case, because they have been spouting off about things harming the search and suing left, right and centre about that, when they used lawyers to suppress information themselves. I think that is enough to slap something on them.
***
I think it does, SAM. The Fund is only "fraud" [20 years' sentence ...], if they knew she was dead, as the money is to find a living child.. Whatever they did with the incoming and outgoing monies is small fries ...

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by The Slave on 27.10.13 20:55

Spookily enough Al Capone and HIS eventual demise cropped up in conversation earlier in my house.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 27.10.13 20:57

Châtelaine wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:It's needs PROOF that they knew she was dead, PeterMac.  [...]
I'm not certain that matters in this case, because they have been spouting off about things harming the search and suing left, right and centre about that, when they used lawyers to suppress information themselves. I think that is enough to slap something on them.
***
I think it does, SAM. The Fund is only "fraud" [20 years' sentence ...], if they knew she was dead, as the money is to find a living child.. Whatever they did with the incoming and outgoing monies is small fries ...
I concede regarding the actual money side, I still think there will be some BIG issue about them hindering the search though, especially given their litigious manner. I certainly look forward to the rest of the libel hearing, if indeed it continues after this. The Judge will not be amused.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Guest on 27.10.13 21:04

@PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:It's needs PROOF that they knew she was dead, PeterMac.
I don't think it does.
Their collective withholding of information from the enquiry teams, whether Madeleine was dead or alive, is still Perverting the Course of Justice.  (possibly - Kevin)

If Madeleine WERE or HAD BEEN alive during that the time, that would exacerbate the crime - not mitigate it. They would then richly deserve the full sentence.
***
Sorry, PeterMac. Somehow this reply escaped my attention. I was referring to having them [Al Capone style] charged and convicted for FRAUD with their "Fund" to search for Madeleine.

Of course, it is more than obvious and slowly also documented by now, that they have "Perverted the Course of Justice", which is another league, but equally useful ... ;-)

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LET US LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE

Post by PeterMac on 27.10.13 21:21

Just suppose . . .

Smithman comes forward or is positively identified and arrested.
He leads the PJ and SY to the Hellish Lair within 10 miles of
PLdL.
Where they find Madeleine. Alive

Who is now deemed responsible for the past 5 YEARS of her incarceration ?


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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by whmon on 27.10.13 21:28

With a bit of luck it might be almost time to change the title of this thread to its anagram:

'Adult Refund Fun' big grin

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by Guest on 27.10.13 21:41

@PeterMac wrote:Just suppose . . .

Smithman comes forward or is positively identified and arrested.
He leads the PJ and SY to the Hellish Lair within 10 miles of
PLdL.
Where they find Madeleine. Alive

Who is now deemed responsible for the past 5 YEARS of her incarceration ?

***
You continue to amaze me ... thumbsup 

In the 70s we used to say: "Jezus Christ on horseback".
No idea where that came from BTW

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by iamfreecanigo on 27.10.13 21:49

@PeterMac wrote:Just suppose . . .

Smithman comes forward or is positively identified and arrested.
He leads the PJ and SY to the Hellish Lair within 10 miles of
PLdL.
Where they find Madeleine. Alive

Who is now deemed responsible for the past 5 YEARS of her incarceration ?

The man who kidnapped her and held her captive for 5 years.

The McCanns at least are guilty of neglect and probably of disposing of maddies body after she died accidently. However in your presented scenario all the would be guilty off is being negligent so you could not imply they are responsible for her incarceration.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by PeterMac on 27.10.13 22:23

@iamfreecanigo wrote:The man who kidnapped her and held her captive for 5 years.
The McCanns at least are guilty of neglect and probably of disposing of maddies body after she died accidently. However in your presented scenario all they would be guilty of is being negligent so you could not imply they are responsible for her incarceration.
Of course.  
Spookily similar to what the McCanns have said.

Not her initial incarceration, but the subsequent 5 years - certainly.
Who is responsible for the failure to search for her,
Who is responsible for the failure to follow up leads,
Who is responsible for the failure to release e-fits which lead to the identification of the "abductor.

who is responsible for withholding the information which led, eventually, to her release.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by ultimaThule on 27.10.13 23:18

@aquila wrote:It will be very interesting to see the next set of accounts which I think are due to be filed by 31st December.
I filed my prediction of the final set of accounts a few days ago on another thread, aquila, and am reproducing it here for your information.   

"A forensic audit of the 'fund' will reveal there's 2p left in the kitty and £10 owed to one of the directors for sandal shoe repairs or similar minor expense incurred when turning over stones at the Hotel Lap de Luxury." 

As they stand, the accounts don't look kosher to me and I'd hazard a guess that outgoings have increased over the past few months due to more large sums being transferred to offshore accounts the need for costly legal representation at home and abroad, which is a situation that doesn't look like easing anytime soon.

No doubt GM has equipped himself with a flashy new whiteboard and pointer, and is desperately working on an accompanying powerpoint presentation to show the SFO how the public's generousity has enabled him and his wife to stash £millions under the mattress continue the search for Madeleine in 5* hotels around the world.

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Re: FRAUDULENT FUND

Post by iamfreecanigo on 27.10.13 23:39

@PeterMac wrote:
@iamfreecanigo wrote:The man who kidnapped her and held her captive for 5 years.
The McCanns at least are guilty of neglect and probably of disposing of maddies body after she died accidently. However in your presented scenario all they would be guilty of is being negligent so you could not imply they are responsible for her incarceration.
Of course.  
Spookily similar to what the McCanns have said.

Not her initial incarceration, but the subsequent 5 years - certainly.
Who is responsible for the failure to search for her,
Who is responsible for the failure to follow up leads,
Who is responsible for the failure to release e-fits which lead to the identification of the "abductor.

who is responsible for withholding the information which led, eventually, to her release.
Well, didn't the PJ know about smithman anyway? Most parents of a missing child wouldn't be responsible for gathering evidence, so technically in your scenario it was still be the abductors fault. However, in the real world scenario, its very damning evidence that they are hiding something.

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