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Anyone for scraps?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by View-from-Ireland on 21.10.13 0:15

@Cerinthe wrote:In David Payne's rogatory statement where he describes seeing Kate in the apartment with her children the evening Madeleine went missing, and describes the children as in white, like angels and at peace.
Yes, and this creeps the hell out of me too. There is something so fishy about that whole Payne episode. 30 minutes of 30 seconds? 

And why were the Paynes and Webster not named on the CW reconstruction? Crucial people you'd think given that Payne was, supposedly, the last independent witness to Madeleine.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 21.10.13 1:15

Another scrap I'd half forgotten...

I think Kate's Mum speaking on a radio phone-in made reference to Kate using (or maybe it was theoretically using) "valium" where she meant "valerian" . I may be wrong on that - does anyone else remember that? I am sure there was something along those lines...

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 21.10.13 1:17

@View-from-Ireland wrote:
@Cerinthe wrote:In David Payne's rogatory statement where he describes seeing Kate in the apartment with her children the evening Madeleine went missing, and describes the children as in white, like angels and at peace.
Yes, and this creeps the hell out of me too. There is something so fishy about that whole Payne episode. 30 minutes of 30 seconds? 

And why were the Paynes and Webster not named on the CW reconstruction? Crucial people you'd think given that Payne was, supposedly, the last independent witness to Madeleine.
Absolutely - the omission was quite bizarre...given their names have been published countless times in the press, have been mentioned in TV progs and are plastered all over the internet. Now, suddenly, they are "anonymous".

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by lj on 21.10.13 2:10

Grammy Healy did mention valium for Madeleine's sleep problems. Heard by many any proof of that has disappeared of course.

The way the internet is being sanitized is almost proof in itself.

I never heard about the use of valerian for either Madeleine or for Kate. I doubt that would be of any use in Kate's case.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 21.10.13 2:39

@lj wrote:Grammy Healy did mention valium for Madeleine's sleep problems. Heard by many any proof of that has disappeared of course.

The way the internet is being sanitized is almost proof in itself.

I never heard about the use of valerian for either Madeleine or for Kate. I doubt that would be of any use in Kate's case.
I'm glad you confirm I didn't imagine that one! LOL  I think I heard a clip from it before it was whoosh-clunked as we say. :) 

Now I reflect back on that, I recall Kate's Mum did refer to valium but I think I was putting forward the interpretation that she had meant to say "valerian".  The fact that she didn't say "valerian" but said "valium" could of course be highly significant. But IIRC the context was that Kate's Mum was (during a radio interview) trying to deny the McCanns sedated their kids and so in her answer she said something like "Of course Kate might have used normal remedies like valium"...my interpretation was that she had never meant to say "valium" and "valerian" is the most likely substitute for that word.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by ultimaThule on 21.10.13 5:27


Two items I came across when reading various threads yesterday and today are what appears to be 4 passports in the above photo of the top of the chest of drawers in the McCanns' bedroom and the website which appears to have been set up the year before Madeleine disappeared:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1465-calum-macrae-and-the-mccann-website#34165

Assuming Madeleine's passport was issued when she was a baby, her photo would not have been any use to the police for identification or other purposes and the arrangement of the pile of passports (above) with keys on top suggests they've been undisturbed since they were first placed there.

I'm curious to know if the McCanns can produce their eldest daughter's passport?  In the case of a missing child it would be an item which any (normal) parent would treasure.  Perhaps it's in Madeleine's bedroom in Rothley Towers taking pride of place in lieu of her sticker book?

The sticker book is, of course, a sticking point for me - I still find it hard to get my brain round its destruction for any purpose, let alone the purpose of writing out a timeline.  wft 

While on the subject of Rothley Towers, the ceramic Terramundi money pot is a curious choice for the centre piece of Madeleine's 'mantelpiece shrine' and I'm curious to know more about its contents.

Other oddities/curiousities are too numerous to mention but include KM's karate chop action, the peculiar guttural sound she made, and the 'whoosh' of curtains blowing which sounds similar to the noise of a crematorium furnace my automatic gas oven firing up.

Add to that every word K&G have uttered and their demeanour when doing so, the photos of them emerging from church looking like a bridal pair on Madeleine's birthday just a few days after her disappearance - I could go on ad infinitum on these particular themes.

I've lambasted SY for taking 2 & half years and £6+million to get to where the PJ were within days/weeks of Madeleine's disappearance but, after joining this forum, I now have a greater appreciation of why the investigation has progressed at a snail's pace and if it leads to successful prosecution of those responsible for this child appearing to vanish into thin air, I will regard it as money well spent.

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towel???

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 8:49

Another thing that really bugged me from the start is the towel.
Why give the GNR dogs a towel to scent Maddie?
There was apparently a lot of bathing and showering that night. Who knows whos towel was whos at the end of it.
Could she have been 100% positive that was Maddies towel. How? I presume they were all white and wern't labled.
After bathing 3 children of that age I wouldn't know. I remember chasing my little girl around with the towel after bathtime, and I think she air dried most of the time.
And looking at a photograph of the bathroom there appears to be towel on the floor. So I don't think she had a particular system of hanging them up to dry.
And then is the thought, you would give the dogs the most smelly thing. Not what would be in theory the least smelly of all. After all she had just had a bath.
So why not give the dogs the clothes she was wearing that day?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by tigger on 21.10.13 8:56

dantezebu wrote:Another thing that really bugged me from the start is the towel.
Why give the GNR dogs a towel to scent Maddie?
There was apparently a lot of bathing and showering that night. Who knows whos towel was whos at the end of it.
Could she have been 100% positive that was Maddies towel. How? I presume they were all white and wern't labled.
After bathing 3 children of that age I wouldn't know. I remember chasing my little girl around with the towel after bathtime, and I think she air dried most of the time.
And looking at a photograph of the bathroom there appears to be towel on the floor. So I don't think she had a particular system of hanging them up to dry.
And then is the thought, you would give the dogs the most smelly thing. Not what would be in theory the least smelly of all. After all she had just had a bath.
So why not give the dogs the clothes she was wearing that day?
Processos Volume V

Pages 1335 – 1337

Witness Statement

Date: 2007-05-16

Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão

Occupation: GNR Officer

He has been a GNR officer since 1988. He holds the post of soldier and currently works in the Portimao Territorial Group, working within the forensics service.

On 4th May he was called at about 01h15 when he was asleep at home, requesting him to appear at the Lagos GNR post as a small girl had disappeared. After arriving at the GNR post with his colleagues Morais and two dogs (Numi and Kit), German Shepherd dogs, which made up the search team, they immediately left for P da L. They arrived at about 02h30.

When they arrived at the scene, they entered the McCanns' apartment by the front door, and entered the living room, where there were some PJ officers as well as the McCann couple. They just talked to some colleagues from the PJ and asked for a piece of clothing that Madeleine had worn or used recently. They were given a pink/orange blanket that the child had been covered with in her bed. (Kate makes this some time later in the morning - see above. She said she doesn't know about the dogs earlier than 11.00 am!)

Plus the next lot of dogs:

Processo Volume III

Pages 762 to 765

Witness Statement

Antonio Freitas Silva

Date: 2007.05.09

Location: DIC Portimao
Occupation: 1st Sergeant GNR
Location: GNR-Queluz

The deponent states that:

• He comes to the process in the role of Chief of the GNR Search and Rescue Team. He coordinated all the work carried out by the two sniffer dogs in the Luz zone and the immediate areas relating to the disappearance of the English minor Madeleine McCann from the Ocean Club.

• He remembers that on the 4th of May of the current year, around 23h00, they attempted to tentatively identify and thus reconstruct the path taken by the missing minor. They gave the dogs a Turkish bath towel which was supposedly used by the child in question. This operation was realised by two different dogs.


From topic Kate and dogs,  clear that the GNR weren't too happy about the towel.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 8:58

Here is a link to a copy of Madeleine's passport, ultimaThule.
 
http://maddiemccannmilliondollarbaby.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/passport-of-madeleine-beth-mccann.html

Welcome dantezebu. I too have wondered about the use if any of a towel rather than clothes - what happened to the outfit worn at the poolside - cough?!

If it is true that clothes and even personal items like hairbrushes and toothbrushes (that is disgusting!) were communal, that towel was probably used by the world and his dog!

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by ultimaThule on 21.10.13 9:18

thanks NFWTD I thought I'd seen Madeleine's passport photo somewhere on this forum but it seemed odd there should only be 4 passports in the pile as shown in the photo. 

Of course the simple explanation is that the McCanns had handed their eldest daughter's passport to the police before the photo was taken but, as with everything McCann, I feel I've entered a parallel universe where everything is the opposite of what it appears to be.

I've even taken to wondering if the poor child was left home alone in Rothley Towers instead of going to Portugal. [ gets cold compress and goes to lie down in darkened room ]

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towel???

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 9:26

Thank you for that tigger. And thank you ulitmaThule for the welcome.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Pershing36 on 21.10.13 9:32

This one that always comes back to me.

Charlotte Pennington, is it just a huge coincidence that her and KM had connections with the same ward, in the same hospital in New Zealand and then turned up at near enough the exact time in PDL to be a witness.

Where had Charlotte really been and what the months before the incident.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by plebgate on 21.10.13 10:02

Little Maddie's shoes.

Even if all of her clothes had been washed the shoes would have had Maddie's DNA on them and yet her sister was allowed to wear them.

I will say it again, NO WAY would I have allowed Maddie's sister to wear her shoes or any of her clothing.   It would all have been put away and treasured.  Makes me sad to think of it  sad

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by joyce1938 on 21.10.13 10:12

Was there not similer sandels in different sizes so did baby twin really fit mad shoes ?not certain where this came from ? joyce1938

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by plebgate on 21.10.13 10:19

I may be wrong Joyce, but I think it is in the files, but I was reading an interview with Mrs. from 2009 in ? Bella magazine recently and it is stated in that article also.   I do not recall having seen any rebuttal of this.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by plebgate on 21.10.13 10:26

Found the article Joyce - Bella magazine 19th May 2009.  Page 3.

Wont type out article but here is a quote from it :


"

The World has moved on since 10pm on Thursday 3rd May 2007.  Maddie's twin siblings S & A (names given in full in article)  are now older than she was when she went missing and her sister even wears her shoes."


Maddie's shoes equals DNA?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by bristow on 21.10.13 11:30

You just would NOT give a towel!! 

Sounds rather unsavoury but you would hand over a pair of knickers worn by the child that day, close bodily contact item of clothing and surely after the bathing routine the childs underwear would be to hand, I am quite sure Kate wouldn't have washed the childrens clothes immediately after bath time, absolute rubbish to hand them a bath towel, talk about suspicious.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by joyce1938 on 21.10.13 11:43

thanks plebgate for your reply ,when I first read about the shoes being worn by ,liile sister ,I think it was soon after mad went,and felt that's odd she must have big feet to use shoes already ,yes your right those sandles and many other clothes etc would have been a better way to know exactly mads dna,all that going to house back in England to get pillowcase for proof of dna

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by jozi on 21.10.13 12:32

When they arrived at the scene, they entered the McCanns' apartment by the front door, and entered the living room, where there were some PJ officers as well as the McCann couple. They just talked to some colleagues from the PJ and asked for a piece of clothing that Madeleine had worn or used recently. They were given a pink/orange blanket that the child had been covered with in her bed. (Kate makes this some time later in the morning - see above. She said she doesn't know about the dogs earlier than 11.00 am!)

Thanks tigger for posting this, could this be the famous pink blanket that is missing now !!!

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 13:04

joyce, what has happened to your posts???

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 13:06

It's one from Jozi that is haywire on my computer. It appears in a long line to the right of Joyce's post.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by jozi on 21.10.13 13:12

My post is normal on my PC but joyces one is odd ?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Fred Up on 21.10.13 14:03

"We've let her down."

 In what way? Neglecting obvious parental duties by leaving your child(ren) alone at risk of being abducted whilst you dine out with friends or 'failing' as medics to resuscitate a dying child?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by joyce1938 on 21.10.13 14:38

I am back from shopping trip . don't know what is meant by something wrong with my post ? can you fill me in  please. one I did try to send but was told to have a look as someone had posted ,well I did look and felt what had been said was not same as mine so did send it after all ,I think only edit   came up first and I had to redo it ? could that have been it ? joyce1938

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 14:57

@jozi wrote:When they arrived at the scene, they entered the McCanns' apartment by the front door, and entered the living room, where there were some PJ officers as well as the McCann couple. They just talked to some colleagues from the PJ and asked for a piece of clothing that Madeleine had worn or used recently. They were given a pink/orange blanket that the child had been covered with in her bed. (Kate makes this some time later in the morning - see above. She said she doesn't know about the dogs earlier than 11.00 am!)

Thanks tigger for posting this, could this be the famous pink blanket that is missing now !!!
A towel was given to the second dog team that night.
So if KM didn't know about the dogs, who decided it was Maddies towel?
KM bathed the children.

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