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Anyone for scraps?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 20.10.13 11:34

@lj wrote:2 interesting observations from Batista, nothing new but good to see it again:

The deponent recalls that the cots that were used by the babies were placed in the middle of the room and aligned, and therefore she found it strange that someone could have taken Madeleine from the bed where she was sleeping up to the window, because there was no space to get through.

and:

The deponent remained in the living room for a while, with the GNR officers, Gerry and the other group members that were there in a frenzy, going in and out and speaking on their mobile phones.
She noticed that none of the group members, including the child’s mother and father, were busy looking for her.   The mother was sitting on the master bedroom’s bed, the father accompanied the deponent and the GNR officers and the other group members walked in and out and spoke on the phone, apparently concerned about informing the press about the event.
Yes...very telling. And why once JT had told the rest of the Tapas 9 - bar the McCanns it seems - about her sighting of the abductor didn't they all rush off in that direction, raising a hue and cry shouting out Madeleine's name, banging on vans and looking in ditches/construction sites etc? I can't see how they could all receive with such equanimity JT's description of seeing a stranger carrying off an infant who had on exactly the same PJs as Madeleine. These rational professional people used to making decisions under stress. Surely they would have been organising - yes organising - people to search in that direction.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 20.10.13 11:39

@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:Why did DAVID PAYNE make a statement to the Leics Police in Oct 07 that he last saw MADDIE  at 17.00 on Thurs 3 May at apartment 5A in the presence of KATE and GERRY McCANN?  contrary to everything in the public domain before or since.
Wasn't the explanation for that confusion between the UK and continental time systems. People here get confused - and there's every chance that it happened during a police interview i.e. that his original claim was 7pm  or some variation around that.  But there are clearly question marks over the narrative Team McCann give.
I do not believe people here are confused.  There is no time difference between Portugal and the UK and would you believe a Detective would not ask him "do you mean 5pm or 7pm"? and to be totally clear is that  17.00hrs or 19.00 hrs, when it was of critical importance. Also if he meant 19.00hrs, Gerry would have been home from the tennis and again would put a big dent in the timeline.  In a separate interview Fiona Payne states she was in 5A with KM at 19.00 hrs which would make her the last non McCann to see Madeleine.

These interviews have never been released by the PJ. There must be a reason why.
No, I believe either English speaking translator got confused or a Portugese speaking translator got confused by hearing the "seven" reference. 5pm makes no sense in any way shape or form that I can see (including a McCann creche charade, if that took place). 

If it was so important to hide a 5pm visit, you'd think Mr Payne might at least have got that right in his interview.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Red Phil on 20.10.13 12:12

What comes to mind is the fact that the parents were professional people and worked long hours thus needing a Nanny to look after the children back home.However they went on holiday with a pair of very young twins and a 3 year old who would need constant supervision and who they were not used to dealing with 24 hours a day.That's where I think an incident occurred where either someone has lost their temper and lashed out or maybe sedation was given allowing the nights out which were enjoyed and an accident happened through this.I think the Tapas 7 were just encouraged to embellish the story of visiting the apartments as I don't think this happened at all.The story of one of them not fully checking Maddie's room is ridiculous as is the fact McCann didn't check why the door was moved.

In my opinion that little girl had long since passed on by the time the night out was arranged and so giving alibis to all.Think about it if any of us had been in their shoes we'd have called medical help immediately but these were doctors and would have known immediately if life was extinct and there the deception was born.

Only my opinion though.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 20.10.13 12:18

@Red Phil wrote:What comes to mind is the fact that the parents were professional people and worked long hours thus needing a Nanny to look after the children back home.However they went on holiday with a pair of very young twins and a 3 year old who would need constant supervision and who they were not used to dealing with 24 hours a day.That's where I think an incident occurred where either someone has lost their temper and lashed out or maybe sedation was given allowing the nights out which were enjoyed and an accident happened through this.I think the Tapas 7 were just encouraged to embellish the story of visiting the apartments as I don't think this happened at all.The story of one of them not fully checking Maddie's room is ridiculous as is the fact McCann didn't check why the door was moved.

In my opinion that little girl had long since passed on by the time the night out was arranged and so giving alibis to all.Think about it if any of us had been in their shoes we'd have called medical help immediately but these were doctors and would have known immediately if life was extinct and there the deception was born.

Only my opinion though.
IIRC Kate only worked one day a week.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 20.10.13 12:19

A day and a half but that still allowed time for dealing with six corpses in the week before the holiday!

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 20.10.13 12:21

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:A day and a half but that still allowed time for dealing with six corpses in the week before the holiday!
And having bodily contact with those corpses in checked trousers for 10 mins minimum to allow for cadavarine contamination!

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by bristow on 20.10.13 12:25

Cuddlecat being taken to work with KM hence becoming contaminated with cadaverine.

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Anyone for scraps

Post by RIPM on 20.10.13 12:32

@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:Why did DAVID PAYNE make a statement to the Leics Police in Oct 07 that he last saw MADDIE  at 17.00 on Thurs 3 May at apartment 5A in the presence of KATE and GERRY McCANN?  contrary to everything in the public domain before or since.
Wasn't the explanation for that confusion between the UK and continental time systems. People here get confused - and there's every chance that it happened during a police interview i.e. that his original claim was 7pm  or some variation around that.  But there are clearly question marks over the narrative Team McCann give.
I do not believe people here are confused.  There is no time difference between Portugal and the UK and would you believe a Detective would not ask him "do you mean 5pm or 7pm"? and to be totally clear is that  17.00hrs or 19.00 hrs, when it was of critical importance. Also if he meant 19.00hrs, Gerry would have been home from the tennis and again would put a big dent in the timeline.  In a separate interview Fiona Payne states she was in 5A with KM at 19.00 hrs which would make her the last non McCann to see Madeleine.

These interviews have never been released by the PJ. There must be a reason why.
No, I believe either English speaking translator got confused or a Portugese speaking translator got confused by hearing the "seven" reference. 5pm makes no sense in any way shape or form that I can see (including a McCann creche charade, if that took place). 

If it was so important to hide a 5pm visit, you'd think Mr Payne might at least have got that right in his interview.
David Payne is English, he gave his statement in an English Police Station to an English Detective who spoke and wrote English.  How can there be confusion in translation?

Maybe it wasn't important to hide the 5pm meeting, just the opposite.  It could be the only interview where he told the truth and it has not been released by the PJ yet.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 20.10.13 12:51

What I find strange, is not just that MO couldn't see the twins with any certainty from outside the room, are the words he used: 


"You could see the shapes and you could see they were breathing, you’d stop and look and you could see they were sort of breathing,"
I know he is a doctor, but it's not the first think that springs into mind when checking on otherwise normally healthy 2 year olds. 
Did he have any reason to suspect that they might not be breathing?
However giving him the benefit of the doubt and it was important he check this, why not check the third child. (Unless there was at that time, no point.)


And again later when the idea that the twins had been drugged their "vital signs" were checked. But no attempt was made to rouse them, or actually (as should have happened) get them checked at hospital. They may have been breathing but who knows what their oxygen saturation was.


I just have this feeling that the twins were probably drugged, in the same way that Madeleine had been drugged (which may have been the cause of the "dreadful accident" earlier). 


Their vital signs were being checked all evening. 
And all the coming and going and, or possibly even someone actually staying with them the whole time was to be sure one of them didn't succumb to the same fate. 
Perhaps it was more like a game of tag with one person relieving the next one.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by lj on 20.10.13 15:40

@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:Why did DAVID PAYNE make a statement to the Leics Police in Oct 07 that he last saw MADDIE  at 17.00 on Thurs 3 May at apartment 5A in the presence of KATE and GERRY McCANN?  contrary to everything in the public domain before or since.
Wasn't the explanation for that confusion between the UK and continental time systems. People here get confused - and there's every chance that it happened during a police interview i.e. that his original claim was 7pm  or some variation around that.  But there are clearly question marks over the narrative Team McCann give.
I do not believe people here are confused.  There is no time difference between Portugal and the UK and would you believe a Detective would not ask him "do you mean 5pm or 7pm"? and to be totally clear is that  17.00hrs or 19.00 hrs, when it was of critical importance. Also if he meant 19.00hrs, Gerry would have been home from the tennis and again would put a big dent in the timeline.  In a separate interview Fiona Payne states she was in 5A with KM at 19.00 hrs which would make her the last non McCann to see Madeleine.

These interviews have never been released by the PJ. There must be a reason why.
All medical charts are in "military" time ie 17.00 iso 5 pm. So that should not confuse them.

But then I have serious doubts about the quality of the work of these mediocre medics.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 20.10.13 17:01

@lj wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:Why did DAVID PAYNE make a statement to the Leics Police in Oct 07 that he last saw MADDIE  at 17.00 on Thurs 3 May at apartment 5A in the presence of KATE and GERRY McCANN?  contrary to everything in the public domain before or since.
Wasn't the explanation for that confusion between the UK and continental time systems. People here get confused - and there's every chance that it happened during a police interview i.e. that his original claim was 7pm  or some variation around that.  But there are clearly question marks over the narrative Team McCann give.
I do not believe people here are confused.  There is no time difference between Portugal and the UK and would you believe a Detective would not ask him "do you mean 5pm or 7pm"? and to be totally clear is that  17.00hrs or 19.00 hrs, when it was of critical importance. Also if he meant 19.00hrs, Gerry would have been home from the tennis and again would put a big dent in the timeline.  In a separate interview Fiona Payne states she was in 5A with KM at 19.00 hrs which would make her the last non McCann to see Madeleine.

These interviews have never been released by the PJ. There must be a reason why.
All medical charts are in "military" time ie 17.00 iso 5 pm. So that should not confuse them.

But then I have serious doubts about the quality of the work of these mediocre medics.
It's the other way round. No English person, doctor or otherwise would say "I went to the apartment at 19:00 hours" in this context. They would say "I went at 7pm".  Of course if the Portugese officer - no doubt not a native English speaker then said "Did you say 17:00 hours?" they might well answer in the affirmative if they weren't focussing on it too much.  This confusion was a long running joke in a popular comedy from the 70s here called Dad's Army.

I think you need a bit more proof that 5 pm  was significant for some reason. I think much more significant was the contradiction between 3 minutes and 30 minutes for the visit.

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Anyone for scraps

Post by RIPM on 20.10.13 18:29

@Okeydokey wrote:
@lj wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:Why did DAVID PAYNE make a statement to the Leics Police in Oct 07 that he last saw MADDIE  at 17.00 on Thurs 3 May at apartment 5A in the presence of KATE and GERRY McCANN?  contrary to everything in the public domain before or since.
Wasn't the explanation for that confusion between the UK and continental time systems. People here get confused - and there's every chance that it happened during a police interview i.e. that his original claim was 7pm  or some variation around that.  But there are clearly question marks over the narrative Team McCann give.
I do not believe people here are confused.  There is no time difference between Portugal and the UK and would you believe a Detective would not ask him "do you mean 5pm or 7pm"? and to be totally clear is that  17.00hrs or 19.00 hrs, when it was of critical importance. Also if he meant 19.00hrs, Gerry would have been home from the tennis and again would put a big dent in the timeline.  In a separate interview Fiona Payne states she was in 5A with KM at 19.00 hrs which would make her the last non McCann to see Madeleine.

These interviews have never been released by the PJ. There must be a reason why.
All medical charts are in "military" time ie 17.00 iso 5 pm. So that should not confuse them.

But then I have serious doubts about the quality of the work of these mediocre medics.
It's the other way round. No English person, doctor or otherwise would say "I went to the apartment at 19:00 hours" in this context. They would say "I went at 7pm".  Of course if the Portugese officer - no doubt not a native English speaker then said "Did you say 17:00 hours?" they might well answer in the affirmative if they weren't focussing on it too much.  This confusion was a long running joke in a popular comedy from the 70s here called Dad's Army.

I think you need a bit more proof that 5 pm  was significant for some reason. I think much more significant was the contradiction between 3 minutes and 30 minutes for the visit.
DAVID PAYNE gave a statement to an English police officer in an English police station in English. NO Portuguese officer was involved so NO translation issues. DAVID PAYNE said he last saw MADDIE in apartment 5A with KATE & GERRY at 5 pm or 17.00 . Why I have NO idea . I am just stating a fact.
You seem to wish to divert attention from this fact.  Why I have NO idea. There is no confusion, the proof of this maybe the PJ have not released the transcript of this interview, they may think its important for use at a later date.
 This post is about scraps of information which have seemingly no direct bearing on matters.  This is one such item.  Could I ask, how you do know what anyone would say in this context, if you weren`t there.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by tigger on 20.10.13 18:46

Iirc  Payne came forward with his testimony after Amaral had asked if there was anyone who'd seen her after tea time. 
That fact, combined with the various different reasons for looking in and the widely different times and  duration convince me that the visit never happened.

Add to that in the rogatory Fiona Payne drew attention to the deep sleep of the twins. 
Add to that the Paynes and Webster having been back to give another statement to the PJ which contradicted the official timeline at the time. 

That tells that the Paynes didn't quite realise what they were getting into at the time.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 20.10.13 19:47

@RIPM wrote:
DAVID PAYNE gave a statement to an English police officer in an English police station in English. NO Portuguese officer was involved so NO translation issues. DAVID PAYNE said he last saw MADDIE in apartment 5A with KATE & GERRY at 5 pm or 17.00 . Why I have NO idea . I am just stating a fact.
You seem to wish to divert attention from this fact.  Why I have NO idea. There is no confusion, the proof of this maybe the PJ have not released the transcript of this interview, they may think its important for use at a later date.
 This post is about scraps of information which have seemingly no direct bearing on matters.  This is one such item.  Could I ask, how you do know what anyone would say in this context, if you weren`t there.
RIPM -

I am not trying divert attention from this issue - I think the focus needs to be on the later discrepancy. If you haven't seen a transcript of the statement, I don't know how you know it's not an inaccuracy of translation (given the other statements we have).  

I know how English people refer to time, because I am English,  and I know how we do tend to get confused between the 24 hour clock and the 12 hour clock. My own brother in law managed to miss a plane as a result - and he's an intelligent guy who worked in an important position in a company.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 20.10.13 19:50

dantezebu wrote:What I find strange, is not just that MO couldn't see the twins with any certainty from outside the room, are the words he used: 


"You could see the shapes and you could see they were breathing, you’d stop and look and you could see they were sort of breathing,"
I know he is a doctor, but it's not the first think that springs into mind when checking on otherwise normally healthy 2 year olds. 
Did he have any reason to suspect that they might not be breathing?
However giving him the benefit of the doubt and it was important he check this, why not check the third child. (Unless there was at that time, no point.)


And again later when the idea that the twins had been drugged their "vital signs" were checked. But no attempt was made to rouse them, or actually (as should have happened) get them checked at hospital. They may have been breathing but who knows what their oxygen saturation was.


I just have this feeling that the twins were probably drugged, in the same way that Madeleine had been drugged (which may have been the cause of the "dreadful accident" earlier). 


Their vital signs were being checked all evening. 
And all the coming and going and, or possibly even someone actually staying with them the whole time was to be sure one of them didn't succumb to the same fate. 
Perhaps it was more like a game of tag with one person relieving the next one.
I agree. MO's evidence makes for very uncomfortable reading.  Also, on the Loach mockumentary - he's doesn't look at all comfortable saying where he was standing...

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Anyone for scraps

Post by RIPM on 20.10.13 20:18

@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
DAVID PAYNE gave a statement to an English police officer in an English police station in English. NO Portuguese officer was involved so NO translation issues. DAVID PAYNE said he last saw MADDIE in apartment 5A with KATE & GERRY at 5 pm or 17.00 . Why I have NO idea . I am just stating a fact.
You seem to wish to divert attention from this fact.  Why I have NO idea. There is no confusion, the proof of this maybe the PJ have not released the transcript of this interview, they may think its important for use at a later date.
 This post is about scraps of information which have seemingly no direct bearing on matters.  This is one such item.  Could I ask, how you do know what anyone would say in this context, if you weren`t there.
RIPM -

I am not trying divert attention from this issue - I think the focus needs to be on the later discrepancy. If you haven't seen a transcript of the statement, I don't know how you know it's not an inaccuracy of translation (given the other statements we have).  

I know how English people refer to time, because I am English,  and I know how we do tend to get confused between the 24 hour clock and the 12 hour clock. My own brother in law managed to miss a plane as a result - and he's an intelligent guy who worked in an important position in a company.
I have seen the e mail concerning this interview it confirms it was given by DP who is English to an English Policeman in an English Police Station and written in English. (PJ files)

There is NO translation issue.  You know how some English people refer to time but that is not what you wrote, and the fact that your brother in law isn't too bright is neither here nor there?  DP made the statement in English, whether you try to confuse the issue or not. I repeat this post is about things that strike one as odd,as this seems to me to be. I have no idea what truth is in it but it happened we cannot rewrite history that is the speciality of team Mccann. Readers will decide for themselves

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by lj on 20.10.13 20:29

@Okeydokey wrote:
@lj wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:Why did DAVID PAYNE make a statement to the Leics Police in Oct 07 that he last saw MADDIE  at 17.00 on Thurs 3 May at apartment 5A in the presence of KATE and GERRY McCANN?  contrary to everything in the public domain before or since.
Wasn't the explanation for that confusion between the UK and continental time systems. People here get confused - and there's every chance that it happened during a police interview i.e. that his original claim was 7pm  or some variation around that.  But there are clearly question marks over the narrative Team McCann give.
I do not believe people here are confused.  There is no time difference between Portugal and the UK and would you believe a Detective would not ask him "do you mean 5pm or 7pm"? and to be totally clear is that  17.00hrs or 19.00 hrs, when it was of critical importance. Also if he meant 19.00hrs, Gerry would have been home from the tennis and again would put a big dent in the timeline.  In a separate interview Fiona Payne states she was in 5A with KM at 19.00 hrs which would make her the last non McCann to see Madeleine.

These interviews have never been released by the PJ. There must be a reason why.
All medical charts are in "military" time ie 17.00 iso 5 pm. So that should not confuse them.

But then I have serious doubts about the quality of the work of these mediocre medics.
It's the other way round. No English person, doctor or otherwise would say "I went to the apartment at 19:00 hours" in this context. They would say "I went at 7pm".  Of course if the Portugese officer - no doubt not a native English speaker then said "Did you say 17:00 hours?" they might well answer in the affirmative if they weren't focussing on it too much.  This confusion was a long running joke in a popular comedy from the 70s here called Dad's Army.

I think you need a bit more proof that 5 pm  was significant for some reason. I think much more significant was the contradiction between 3 minutes and 30 minutes for the visit.
I agree the difference between 3 min and 30 min is quite significant and very hard to explain.

Again in the medical world, even in England -btw I visited British universities and hospitals quite a few times in the past-, the times recorded are on 24h clock. The same for most police forces I know.
So the Tapas bunch should be used to that, and, as many people I know who are used to both systems, almost automatically use the 24 h one to avoid any misunderstanding. On the other side during a vacation I would not live by the clock and, unless there is something significantly happening, have no idea of the time other than "time to eat" and "time to sleep".

But hey, that's just my opinion, and again I agree that the 3 or 30 min is a bigger problem.


I see there has been more opinions about this, I'll let mine stand as it is.

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 20.10.13 22:04

@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
DAVID PAYNE gave a statement to an English police officer in an English police station in English. NO Portuguese officer was involved so NO translation issues. DAVID PAYNE said he last saw MADDIE in apartment 5A with KATE & GERRY at 5 pm or 17.00 . Why I have NO idea . I am just stating a fact.
You seem to wish to divert attention from this fact.  Why I have NO idea. There is no confusion, the proof of this maybe the PJ have not released the transcript of this interview, they may think its important for use at a later date.
 This post is about scraps of information which have seemingly no direct bearing on matters.  This is one such item.  Could I ask, how you do know what anyone would say in this context, if you weren`t there.
RIPM -

I am not trying divert attention from this issue - I think the focus needs to be on the later discrepancy. If you haven't seen a transcript of the statement, I don't know how you know it's not an inaccuracy of translation (given the other statements we have).  

I know how English people refer to time, because I am English,  and I know how we do tend to get confused between the 24 hour clock and the 12 hour clock. My own brother in law managed to miss a plane as a result - and he's an intelligent guy who worked in an important position in a company.
I have seen the e mail concerning this interview it confirms it was given by DP who is English to an English Policeman in an English Police Station and written in English. (PJ files)

There is NO translation issue.  You know how some English people refer to time but that is not what you wrote, and the fact that your brother in law isn't too bright is neither here nor there?  DP made the statement in English, whether you try to confuse the issue or not. I repeat this post is about things that strike one as odd,as this seems to me to be. I have no idea what truth is in it but it happened we cannot rewrite history that is the speciality of team Mccann. Readers will decide for themselves
I think you are being needlessly aggressive. End of debate on this as far as I am concerned.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by aquila on 20.10.13 22:13

@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
DAVID PAYNE gave a statement to an English police officer in an English police station in English. NO Portuguese officer was involved so NO translation issues. DAVID PAYNE said he last saw MADDIE in apartment 5A with KATE & GERRY at 5 pm or 17.00 . Why I have NO idea . I am just stating a fact.
You seem to wish to divert attention from this fact.  Why I have NO idea. There is no confusion, the proof of this maybe the PJ have not released the transcript of this interview, they may think its important for use at a later date.
 This post is about scraps of information which have seemingly no direct bearing on matters.  This is one such item.  Could I ask, how you do know what anyone would say in this context, if you weren`t there.
RIPM -

I am not trying divert attention from this issue - I think the focus needs to be on the later discrepancy. If you haven't seen a transcript of the statement, I don't know how you know it's not an inaccuracy of translation (given the other statements we have).  

I know how English people refer to time, because I am English,  and I know how we do tend to get confused between the 24 hour clock and the 12 hour clock. My own brother in law managed to miss a plane as a result - and he's an intelligent guy who worked in an important position in a company.
I have seen the e mail concerning this interview it confirms it was given by DP who is English to an English Policeman in an English Police Station and written in English. (PJ files)

There is NO translation issue.  You know how some English people refer to time but that is not what you wrote, and the fact that your brother in law isn't too bright is neither here nor there?  DP made the statement in English, whether you try to confuse the issue or not. I repeat this post is about things that strike one as odd,as this seems to me to be. I have no idea what truth is in it but it happened we cannot rewrite history that is the speciality of team Mccann. Readers will decide for themselves
I think you are being needlessly aggressive. End of debate on this as far as I am concerned.
I've been a part of this forum for two years. I dislike 'newbies' arriving and having spats. This forum isn't twitter or facebook, civilized discussion is the essence of this form and a privilege to be a part of.

So please newbies whoever you are and however much you've read or not read and whatever forum you belong to please respect this forum.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Guest on 20.10.13 22:23

Well said Aquila.

Newcomers arriving and promptly going on the attack - instead of taking the time to read up on the various topics - will inevitably raise suspicions that their motives for joining are not genuine.

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Anyone For 'Scraps'...

Post by worriedmum on 20.10.13 22:28

maybe they were taking the title of the thread idiomatically    exalt

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Anyone for scraps of information?

Post by Guest on 20.10.13 22:43

laughat worried mum.

I have amended my own post title so that nobody gets the idea that this topic is for verbal punch-ups!

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bow wow

Post by dotdot on 20.10.13 23:40

a weird scrap i can find no reason for is the thing about KM being bitten by some little dogs or something on her run (was this the day after madeleine 'vanished'?  but then her running companion makes no mention of in his statement, but it seems like something that would stand out of pretty important significance enough that they would both remember.  what the hell is that little dog attack about???

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by View-from-Ireland on 21.10.13 0:08

@sharonl wrote:Never mentioned this one before because it is so insignificant that it's not worth bothering about, but it did bug me'

Kate McCann emphasising that they drank a glass of "New Zealand" wine

Most of would say that we were "enjoying a quiet drink", or "relaxing with a glass of wine".

I haven't read through the rest of this thread but I think it is an excellent idea and this 'New Zealand wine' comment encapsulates why the thread is important. 

As far as I am concerned, it is the small things that continually trip the tapas crew up. In my view, and I think this was proved in the Soham case, when a person is guilty, they tend to exaggerate the minor details in a way that a person wouldn't if they had nothing to hide. So, a quiet drink becomes something loaded with minor details in attempt to exaggerate the truthfulness. I just think the New Zeland wine comment fits a whole set of exaggerations designed to prove something 'happened'. To prove they had taken a drink at that time they show that they can even remember the wine that they had had. 

One thing that has always bugged me is the emphasis on the tea stain. Why? It just doesn't really fit and I can't see why it was introduced.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 21.10.13 0:11

@View-from-Ireland wrote:
@sharonl wrote:Never mentioned this one before because it is so insignificant that it's not worth bothering about, but it did bug me'

Kate McCann emphasising that they drank a glass of "New Zealand" wine

Most of would say that we were "enjoying a quiet drink", or "relaxing with a glass of wine".

I haven't read through the rest of this thread but I think it is an excellent idea and this 'New Zealand wine' comment encapsulates why the thread is important. 

As far as I am concerned, it is the small things that continually trip the tapas crew up. In my view, and I think this was proved in the Soham case, when a person is guilty, they tend to exaggerate the minor details in a way that a person wouldn't if they had nothing to hide. So, a quite drink becomes something loaded with minor details in attempt to exaggerate the truthfulness. I just think the New Zeland wine comment fits a whole set of exaggerations designed to prove something 'happened'. To prove they had taken a drink at that time they show that they can even remember the wine that they had had. 

One thing that has always bugged me is the emphasis on the tea stain. Why? It just doesn't really fit and I can't see why it was introduced.
Yes, that's along the lines I was thinking...these scraps might be stray and of varying significance...it's the sheer number that are important. I can't think of another similar case where so many very odd statements and actions came to light but it turned out later that no suspicions were justified.

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