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Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by tigger on 20.10.13 9:05

@RIPM wrote:As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
thumbup  Exactly my feelings,  Although one has to pity AR for the unpromising material he has to work with. 
Michell becoming MP is part of the clean up by association. Perhaps Gerry will be next as the new member for Kirkcaldy.

As far as the now sanctified Smith sighting goes, Gerry will have been given a rock solid alibi for that exact time. As indeed seen in CW. Nothing to worry about.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by jowie on 20.10.13 9:22

@tigger wrote:
@RIPM wrote:As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
thumbup  Exactly my feelings,  Although one has to pity AR for the unpromising material he has to work with. 
Michell becoming MP is part of the clean up by association. Perhaps Gerry will be next as the new member for Kirkcaldy.

As far as the now sanctified Smith sighting goes, Gerry will have been given a rock solid alibi for that exact time. As indeed seen in CW. Nothing to worry about.
clapping1 clapping1 clapping1 clapping1 clapping1

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by plebgate on 20.10.13 9:25

The only thing keeping me from clapping RIPM & Tigger's post is  PeterM's thoughts he posted yesterday about the new time line and bundleman being taken out of the frame.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by espeland on 20.10.13 10:16

RIPM wrote: wrote:

As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
I trust DCI Redwood and his team. OK, he's constantly said the McCanns and T7 aren't suspects. But he's also said they're only two thirds of the way through reading the documents. If he were to say that they've finished reading and the T9 still aren't suspects, that would be a different matter.

OK, he's scouring Europe for leads on people already identified. That presumably means he'll be able to identify them too and exclude them. Look at it a different way: by starting at the outside and doing the job thoroughly means that the suspects, when identified, won't be able to argue that 'an outsider' is responsible. Admittedly this will take time.

"If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least."
It would an absolutely appalling thing for SY to do. Do you really think they would? Isn't it more likely to be a ruse (well yes, a lie) to keep the McCanns onside?

Has he really turned Tanner into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere? Hardly - the man identified by DCI Redwood was walking in totally the wrong direction. Why should he 'clear' Tanner? He hasn't: he can always 'discover' his error. What he has done, however, is tell the T9 that their timeline isn't accepted, that he knows they're lying. And why identify only some of the T9 - won't that put pressure on them?

Redwood didn't tell the audience everything: he could have mentioned that they've started looking at the telephone records, for example.

Many of us 'resolved' the case to our personal satisfaction years ago. That it is taking time to get it into a state where it can be successfully presented to a court is hardly surprising. I have never thought SY are involved in a whitewash.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by mouse on 20.10.13 10:47

@pennylane wrote:
@cockerspaniel wrote:
@RIPM wrote:As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
Good post , I agree.high5
Yes good post, cockerspaniel. Redwood IS the cleanup man, and a very dirty one at that!
Me too - I echo these posts. If they genuinely wanted to strip everything away - they would have started with a complete blank canvas and that would of course meant that the Mccanns would be their main people to question, and then of course the rest of the holiday party who had access to the apartment, due to their checking system?? But instead they publically throw their full support behind these people, and appear to be scratching around pointing a finger everywhere else, while causing complete fog and confusion on the original Portuguese Investigation....But then I guess for them - that could mean job done.

If, of course, this is just to lull the Mccanns into a false sense of security, while I wish it was the case...if it is then SY and Andy Redwood deserve Oscars, because asking for more info on the case, while writing off, what could be their main suspects, does not exactly lead me to believe that they want any significant information, coming in from the public, that would point the finger this particular way.

It all feels far too detached from the PJ to have any real clout.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by endgame on 20.10.13 11:00

espeland wrote

"I trust DCI Redwood and his team. OK, he's constantly said the McCanns and T7 aren't suspects. But he's also said they're only two thirds of the way through reading the documents. If he were to say that they've finished reading and the T9 still aren't suspects, that would be a different matter."

IIRC AR has been saying for about six months now that he is two thirds of the way through. As GA pointed out last week, it has taken him 2 1/2 years to reach the point that GA reached in six months re the Smith sighting. His team of 30 officers are taking at least three times as long to read these documents as it took to compile them in the first place.

Unless Redwood and his team have all been living totally out of contact with the rest of the world for the last six years, they would have known in advance about the dog evidence, the contradictions in Tapas 9 statements etc. etc.  You'd think that just out of interest being a policeman and all that, he might have had a little look there first. On the other hand perhaps he's saving that bit for the very end and in two years time he still won't have read them so that he can say "Well we've now read 98% of the documents and there is nothing to incriminate the Mccanns."

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Mirage on 20.10.13 11:19

Damian Greene has been on Andrew Marr this morning talking about trust in the police.

 Essentially the matter in hand was Plebgate, but the discussion broadened into trust in police investigations in general. Marr made the point that if a government minister can be brought down by police lies, what chance did ordinary citizens have! You only have to think of the newspaper vendor, Ian Tomlinson, felled by a police thug. It is a sobering thought that the police would have stuck to their lies if it hadn't been for a bystander catching the whole thing on video. This and the Hillsborough case were alluded to by Marr.

When I consider that 38 detectives are working on the MM case, I find it hard to believe that all these people could be colluding in a cover-up. But cover-ups have happened historically, and significant numbers of people must have been in the know.

Greene was talking about remedies - different entry levels into the police rather than the traditional working your way up from the beat. I didn't think that was a new idea! Anyway, I see some merit in it, if only to change the mantra of "that's the way we've always done things". However, I think you need a mix of expertise as I have known people with no experience on the ground advocating change for change sake - which is just as bad.

What I took away from this discussion was the growing spotlight on police behaviour. Greene pointed out the recent police bravery awards to balance up the criticism, but Marr chipped in with a back-up comment about a few bad apples! Senior officers. Greene did not demur.

 Interestingly, Greene was once on the receiving end of heavy police tactics himself. The police forced their way into his parliamentary office a few years back and went through his files. I think it was when he was a shadow minister. There was also a simultaneous raid on his home which terrified his wife. He was later arrested and questioned. I remember it was a draconian action and there was a great row about the police's illegal entry into the commons for which the serjeant-at-arms (a woman) was blamed for letting them in!! So there is a history there.

 It all makes me think of the politicisation of the police under Labour. Think: Thames Valley police receiving an alert about Dr Kelly's body before it was discovered! And now we have police smearing a Tory minister,forcing his resignation. Is there a political power struggle taking place within the force, out of public view? 

There is clearly some government consternation about police corruption. I sense they are playing it carefully though - perhaps mindful that the public could blame the govt of the day for police corruption worsening on their watch. Greene says that 66.5% of the public still trust the police, but he adds that this figure is down on previous surveys - although no one thought to ask him; how much down? That means a third of the public DO NOT trust the police. And if that figure is moving in the wrong direction, where will it end up if this pantomime of an investigation continues? There are signs that the public is growing suspicious/angry over the inequity of the resources put into the MM case.

 The public are being left with the impression that there is nothing wrong in the CW bodge-up over a lost child but everything wrong with a "he said, he said" spat between police and a government minister over a lost job.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by oakeso on 20.10.13 11:36

Throughout the years on the forums and twitter the 2 biggest stumbling blocks for TM seemed to be the Gasper statement and the flaw in the timeline. AR/CW seem to have cosmetically fixed both by distancing the Paynes from the reconstruction and replacing bundleman with smithman. Most people won't look past the surface once it has the stamp of acceptance from SY/CW. And the 60 to 80% degree of certainty that GM was smithman seems to be a long and distant memory even though it's in the files. 

So far £3M spent from the fund and £6M by SY, miles of words in the media, that's all there is.

I don't know about the day to day investigation but to me the rogatory statements would have been a good place to start or perhaps to resume the line of questioning that was scuppered when the McCanns retreated home in Sep 2007 like rabbits fleeing headlights.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by mouse on 20.10.13 11:37

And following on from 'Mirage's post....There was an interesting piece on the news this morning, heard it on Radio 5Live, about the treatment of Whistle Blowers -(this was related to care homes, but I can't see why it would be any different in the Police, as it has happened in Hospitals, and Social Services) and the way they are rarely listened to. That they are usually treated as trouble makers by those above them, end up being threatened, lose their jobs/career and future career prospects due to being black listeds. The list of the anguish goes on while those who do wrong - remain in their positions. It was also said that even if the Whistle Blower won their case in a tribunal - they'd still lost their job, would only end up being money compensated, and only if they signed a gagging order. While the real crime that they blew the whistle on in the first place, would not be addressed.

People get frightened of losing their jobs, and if one person rocks the boat, well.....more safety in numbers....

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by tigger on 20.10.13 11:37

@espeland wrote:
RIPM wrote: wrote:

As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
I trust DCI Redwood and his team. OK, he's constantly said the McCanns and T7 aren't suspects. But he's also said they're only two thirds of the way through reading the documents. If he were to say that they've finished reading and the T9 still aren't suspects, that would be a different matter.
Working from the outside in is highly unusual, you start again from scratch, as if the 'abduction' happened in the UK. Well, in that case you start again with the parents, the witnesses from point zero.
That IS point zero. AR has zero'd it to a point he's chosen.


OK, he's scouring Europe for leads on people already identified. That presumably means he'll be able to identify them too and exclude them. Look at it a different way: by starting at the outside and doing the job thoroughly means that the suspects, when identified, won't be able to argue that 'an outsider' is responsible. Admittedly this will take time.
Surely if these people have been identified, they don't need to be identified again? Excluding all possible outsiders is going to take several lifetimes.

"If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least."
It would an absolutely appalling thing for SY to do. Do you really think they would? Isn't it more likely to be a ruse (well yes, a lie) to keep the McCanns onside?
It can only be a ruse if he believes her to be dead imo. As he's stated she may be alive it doesn't make sense.

Has he really turned Tanner into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere? Hardly - the man identified by DCI Redwood was walking in totally the wrong direction. Why should he 'clear' Tanner? He hasn't: he can always 'discover' his error. What he has done, however, is tell the T9 that their timeline isn't accepted, that he knows they're lying. And why identify only some of the T9 - won't that put pressure on them?
Yes, except for the direction in which the man walked and that wouldn't bother the majority of viewers. He's merely 'proved' that they have been 'mistaken'.

Redwood didn't tell the audience everything: he could have mentioned that they've started looking at the telephone records, for example.
There is a dossier of analysed telephone records available to them. Compiled by an expert. What they are looking at is many thousands of mobile phone records all over the world. What they should be looking at are the telephone records of the T9 and their associates. For a start the 12 voicemails sent to Gerry on the 2nd of May which he still denies any knowledge of. Next they could look at the deleted calls on the phones of both the McCanns, seeing that they took the trouble to delete them between 22.00 and midnight on the 3rd,  rather than see it as a priority to search for their lost child.

Many of us 'resolved' the case to our personal satisfaction years ago. That it is taking time to get it into a state where it can be successfully presented to a court is hardly surprising. I have never thought SY are involved in a whitewash.
Have you personally resolved it to your satisfaction and if so, would you share this with us? Or rather with CDI Redwood, seeing that it could save him a lot of time?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by worriedmum on 20.10.13 11:48

There is a lot of public agitation about the fact that this case has had so many resources diverted towards it when other cases like Ben Needham's are very much the 'poor relations'. I hope AR's strategy of 'peeling his onion' from  the outside and working inwards doesn't leave us with a central chunk of unexamined evidence when the financial plug is pulled...

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Woofer on 20.10.13 11:53

I can`t trust a police force that gives the main suspects` email and website as a contact for the public to deliver information.

As printed in The Sun yesterday.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by pennylane on 20.10.13 11:59

@Woofer wrote:I can`t trust a police force that gives the main suspects` email and website as a contact for the public to deliver information.

As printed in The Sun yesterday.
Amen! clapping 

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Mirage on 20.10.13 12:06

@Woofer wrote:I can`t trust a police force that gives the main suspects` email and website as a contact for the public to deliver information.

As printed in The Sun yesterday.
Exactly Woofer. Unless GCHQ are on the job!

Much more likely that GCHQ are monitoring those with a couple of brain cells to rub together!

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Pennypennypenny on 20.10.13 12:23

I wouldn't trust the police as far as I could throw them.

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Official Line

Post by AB1 on 05.11.13 22:26

Thse are the current Lines of Enquiry according to Met's Appeals page:

Madeleine McCann Appeal - October 2013
14 October 2013

Incident Date
3rd May 2007
Incident Location
Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Description
The Metropolitan Police are investigating the abduction of a 3 year old British girl called Madeleine McCann, from apartment G5A in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz, in Portugal on the 3rd May 2007.
A reconstruction of events showing new and significant information has been compiled to seek the assistance of the public in the UK through Crimewatch, Germany through Aktenzeichen XY...ungelost and Holland through Opsporing Verzocht. These are believed to be the most prevalent nationalities in the area at the time other than the local Portuguese community.
Our Priorities

  1. A new understanding of events on the evening Madeleine disappeared has resulted in a renewed focus on a sighting of a man carrying a child towards the ocean/centre of town at about 10pm. There are two e-fit images, 1A & 1B, of the same man. The witnesses have described the man in the e-fit as being white, aged about in his 30s, with short brown hair, of medium build, medium height and clean shaven.
  2. Numerous sightings of unidentified men with blonde or fair hair seen near the scene before or on 3rd May 2007. They may or may not be the same person. There are two e-fit images, 2A & 2B. The witness who described the man depicted in e-fit 2A described him as wearing black sunglasses with a thick frame, and was wearing a black leather jacket.
  3. There was a fourfold increase in burglaries in the resort peaking in April 2007. Two of the burglaries in April were in Block 5 where Madeleine disappeared from. In both these burglaries entry was via a window. In the first burglary the British occupants had just arrived on 16 April when a man called at the door asking for the "German family". He is described as white, aged in his 20s, fair/blond hair, short in length. They discovered the burglary after they returned from dinner.
  4. There were four separate charity collector sightings on the 3rd May in Praia da Luz between 3.30pm and 5.30pm. From one of these sightings an e-fit was compiled of a man who approached a property on Rua do Ramalhete, near the Ocean Club, at approximately 4.00pm. He is described as Portuguese, with medium length wavy hair, aged 25-30. He is said to have spoken good English. E-fit 4A
  5. E-fit 4B is of a charity collector who called at apartment G5A on the 25th or 26th April between 1430 and 1500. He is described as a Portuguese looking man, aged between 40-45 years old, with short dark hair, slightly grey at sides. He was carrying a clipboard or pad, a receipt book and an ID card with his photo on it, but in that photo he had a goatee beard.
Appeal points

The investigation team need to identify and speak to these people:

  • Are any of these men you? Do you know who they are? Have you seen them?
  • Were you in Praia da Luz on or around 3rd May 2007, but have not yet spoken to the police?
  • Were you a victim of a previously unreported crime, in particular a burglary or approached by a charity collector in this area?
Reward
The Metropolitan Police Service is offering a reward of up to £20,000 for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of the person(s) responsible for the abduction of Madeleine McCann from Praia da Luz Portugal on the 3rd May 2003.
Update on previous appeal
We believe we have identified the man who was seen by Jane Tanner carrying a child at about 21.15 near the apartment G5A. These images are the original sketch of that person made at the time together with a Met Police photo of the British holidaymaker who we have spoken to and is seen here wearing the clothes he believes he may have been wearing that evening. The images are: man holding child & man without child.
Contact

(my underlining)

Two things:
It is an ABDUCTION not disappearance.
The second Tannerman image is said to be the actual tourist. How strange (or refreshing?) that he would agree to his image being sent out world-wide yet no other details, no grasping for 15 minutes of fame and filthy lucre...


Have contacted SY team regarding use of the term "abduction"  and queried whether this indicates their dismissal of the cadaver/blood dogs findings and the forensic results which corresponded with the same locations. Or are they exploring the possibility of an abducted cadaver as well?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by chillyheat on 05.11.13 22:34

I would now like to put the letters MIS in front of the word trusting..... big grin

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by AB1 on 05.11.13 23:04

@ChillyHeat wrote:I would now like to put the letters MIS in front of the word trusting..... big grin
In all honesty, I don't know what to make of it!

But finding the publication of an image of the (allegedly) real Tannerman very odd. Trying to recall any other case where this has been done in this way. It's making we wonder...

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Photofits

Post by AB1 on 05.11.13 23:14

Also, excuse if I am just dense... The current SY photofits are 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 4A and 4B. Where is 3? Was that previously Tannerman? Or is 3 still to come?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by bellum on 05.11.13 23:35

when a corpse is stolen, from a mortuarium for example, can you call it an abduction?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by AB1 on 06.11.13 0:13

@bellum wrote:when a corpse is stolen, from a mortuarium for example, can you call it an abduction?
Good precis on Contact Law site re UK law, pasted here:

Whilst it might seem like a strange concept, there are laws that apply to different aspects of the treatment of, and rights over, a dead body.
Possession of a dead body
It is a well-established principle of law that there is no ‘property’ in, nor ‘ownership’ right to, a dead body. However, certain people can have the right to possess the body following the person’s death. For example, anyone who has a duty to bury a deceased person has the right to possess the body in order to bury it. If the body is lying on hospital premises, or if the coroner has jurisdiction, they may be in lawful possession of the body.
Disposal of a dead body
Before a burial can take place in England or Wales, the executor or next of kin must obtain a certificate of disposal from the registrar or a burial order from the coroner.

There is a duty upon certain people to dispose of a body after a death. This duty falls on the executor or administrator of the deceased’s estate, the parents of a deceased child, or the householder upon whose premises the body lies. It is an offence for any such person, having sufficient means, to fail to discharge this duty. Failing that, the duty falls on the local authority.
Burial and cremation
A dead body can be kept in a house or other building for a period of time before disposal, subject to public health laws. There is no requirement that a body should be buried in an authorised place; a place of burial may be established on private ground, provided no nuisance is caused. Cremations, on the other hand, may only take place in an authorised crematorium. Once a person has been buried it is unlawful to disturb or remove the body without lawful authority.
Offences and other laws relating to dead bodies
Other offences arising out of the use of a dead body include detaining a body, refusing to deliver it to the executors for burial, conspiring to prevent a lawful and decent burial, disposing of the body to prevent an inquest, selling the body for dissection and exposing the body in a public place if to do so would shock public decency.
Further laws govern hospital and coroners' post mortems and removal of tissues and organs.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by ChippyM on 06.11.13 15:25

Ñ
@Woofer wrote:I can`t trust a police force that gives the main suspects` email and website as a contact for the public to deliver information.

As printed in The Sun yesterday.
Maybe they have done that because they know the amount of crap that will get sent in and they know unfortunately M is dead?

 They might have the evidence they need already and not need anything more from the public. You could accuse me of being ever so slighty the optimist here sarcastic   I hope that's what's happening anyway!

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by ultimaThule on 06.11.13 15:49

@bellum wrote:when a corpse is stolen, from a mortuarium for example, can you call it an abduction?
The act of forcibly taking another person or persons away from all they hold dear against their will, or the illegal removal of a child/children from their parent(s)/guardian(s), is abduction.

The act of stealing a corpse from a morgue or any other location is theft.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Estelle on 06.11.13 16:13

@ultimaThule wrote:
@bellum wrote:when a corpse is stolen, from a mortuarium for example, can you call it an abduction?
The act of forcibly taking another person or persons away from all they hold dear against their will, or the illegal removal of a child/children from their parent(s)/guardian(s), is abduction.

The act of stealing a corpse from a morgue or any other location is theft.
Bellum, what is behind your asking of this question?

One guess is whether you think this latest suspect TractorMan was paid to take the body to a fridge/freezer?

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