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Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by susible on 19.10.13 14:19

Excellent post Tangledweb, I think you have picked out all of the very important points about CW, and all of these emerging details have most certainly put the Mc's on the backfoot and made the public far more aware of the realities of that holiday, and it is beginning to show in terms of public opinion about the Mc's in the now open for comment online articles.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by russiandoll on 19.10.13 15:00

@plebgate wrote:This could never be buried quietly a long time ago, the Portugese police made sure of that when they put the files onto WWW.

They played a blinder there imo.
   so are you saying that SY are burying it now in the best way they think possible?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by plebgate on 19.10.13 15:12

What I am saying is the Portugese cops made sure that it wasn't buried a long time ago.   It looks as though that was what was wanted when Mr. A. lost his job.

I am waiting, like everyone else to see whether it is a whitewash, but it would not surprise me if it is.    I am not sure about the trap being set or one of the tapas having cracked.   If they had cracked and confessed all (whatever that might be), surely Mr. & Mrs.  wouldn't have been on our screens this last week, they would have been answering questions at the cop shop.

Well done Port. police, they did not let Maddie down imo.   Yay.   Well and truly played a blinder imo.

Another thing has been puzzling me - I read recently (had not come across the info. before) that Mr. & Mrs. had tried to sue the cops for putting the info on line but that they could not as they had asked for the publicity and help.

That being the case, why would they object to the files being online where the public could read and ask questions which might have led to Maddie being found?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by notlongnow on 19.10.13 15:18

I do wander how much evidence is needed before an arrest is made.

From what i remember the barry george case was done on very little evidence which looked flimsy.

I just look at the evidence that is on the table here and find it astonishing that no charges have been made.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Praiaaa on 19.10.13 15:25

@Tangledweb wrote:one glance at Kate's face confirms this.  She now looks as I would have expected her to look all those years ago

Indeed ! That struck me too. I could never understand how she could put on earrings and smile for the cameras.
I don't know if anyone saw the photo a few weeks ago on the anniversary of 9/11 of a a woman whose fiancé died in the twin towers 12 years ago - sheer unbearable, unhideable grief - after 12 years for a fiancé, not a few days after a child has been 'abducted and been unimaginably ill-treated or dead.

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Perhaps police have to wait until after the libel case

Post by DonNewbery on 19.10.13 15:46

Is it not possible that the police are waiting until after the libel case is over? If the McCanns lose, as seems likely, I think the police (perhaps even the Portuguese police) may move in and arrest them. The McCanns will be in Portugal and as I say the Portuguese police may perhaps reopen the case then (i.e if Amaral is exonerated).

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by bristow on 19.10.13 16:11

@DonNewbery wrote:Is it not possible that the police are waiting until after the libel case is over? If the McCanns lose, as seems likely, I think the police (perhaps even the Portuguese police) may move in and arrest them. The McCanns will be in Portugal and as I say the Portuguese police may perhaps reopen the case then (i.e if Amaral is exonerated).
Unless of course the Mcs give their information in the written form which apparently they have asked to do?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by pennylane on 19.10.13 16:40

Operation Grange is "a new investigation," ruthlessly set up by the Home Office to whitewash the immense trail of damaging evidence, lies and obfuscation leading to the parents' culpability, and hence rendering the conclusions of the original investigation and Dr Goncalo Amaral, null and void. 

Every word Andy Redwood utters is pushing the same poison we've been fed by the McCann's PR machine.  It's difficult to know where Mitchell leaves off and Redwood begins.

Slowly, slowly releasee the monkies!  sad


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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by tigger on 19.10.13 16:54

@pennylane wrote:Operation Grange is "a new investigation," ruthlessly set up by the Home Office to whitewash the immense trail of damaging evidence, lies and obfuscation leading to the parents' culpability, and hence rendering the conclusions of the original investigation and Dr Goncalo Amaral, null and void. 

Every word Andy Redwood utters is pushing the same poison we've been fed by the McCann's PR machine.  It's difficult to know where Mitchell leaves off and Redwood begins.

Slowly, slowly releasee the monkies!  sad
Having just seen the CW Dutch version,  big whitewash with better paint.  Asked about the parents, AR reacted like a hypnotised  subject. 
Rattles off their absolute status of innocence. 
Everything of note had been left out of the fairy story, frequent mention of 'mother Kate'. 

Losing bundle  man and replacing him with an as yet unknown blameless, if lost, parent isn't changing anything. Just makes it look as if SY have actually done something for the money. 
At least it's made people look up the Smith sighting.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by jozi on 19.10.13 16:57

@plebgate wrote:What I am saying is the Portugese cops made sure that it wasn't buried a long time ago.   It looks as though that was what was wanted when Mr. A. lost his job.

I am waiting, like everyone else to see whether it is a whitewash, but it would not surprise me if it is.    I am not sure about the trap being set or one of the tapas having cracked.   If they had cracked and confessed all (whatever that might be), surely Mr. & Mrs.  wouldn't have been on our screens this last week, they would have been answering questions at the cop shop.

Well done Port. police, they did not let Maddie down imo.   Yay.   Well and truly played a blinder imo.

Another thing has been puzzling me - I read recently (had not come across the info. before) that Mr. & Mrs. had tried to sue the cops for putting the info on line but that they could not as they had asked for the publicity and help.

That being the case, why would they object to the files being online where the public could read and ask questions which might have led to Maddie being found?

Great Post plebgate, I too am waiting and hoping this is not a whitewash but I'm not feeling optimistic as I was when SY first took over . Why now when the libel trial is in full swing have SY suddenly after 6 million and over 2 yrs of investigating do they now have a"revelation" and bring this to the public's attention !!! That being Tanners sighting is not the bogy man ? But wait the Smith sighting could be the right one ??? The pj releasing the files was a brilliant move, they could not bury it now, so have to prove the Mcs innocent and that is what they are trying to do, IMO.







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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by logical on 19.10.13 17:06

Penneylane and others here

Can you explain or suggest how sy will whitewash the indications of the dogs? and the conclusions in the original pj police report ,the conclusions that British and Portugeese police came to in the early days of this case.

I have always believed that Jane Tanners bundleman was invented because the entire Smith Family witnessed you know who carrying Madeleine that night.
I also beleive that SY having destroyed this Tanner statement are genuinely looking for any other witnesses to the you know who  the Smiths witnessed that night.

The difference between this case and the Hillsborough cover up is that the Police conclusions in the Mccann case are there in black and white for everyone to see them and more and more people are seeing them by the minute and Imo making it impossible for sy to whitewsh this case and get away with it.

The only way to whitewash the dogs would be to suggest the blood and cadaver scents were all planted I DONT THINK SO DO YOU ??no

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by pennylane on 19.10.13 17:39

@tigger wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Operation Grange is "a new investigation," ruthlessly set up by the Home Office to whitewash the immense trail of damaging evidence, lies and obfuscation leading to the parents' culpability, and hence rendering the conclusions of the original investigation and Dr Goncalo Amaral, null and void. 

Every word Andy Redwood utters is pushing the same poison we've been fed by the McCann's PR machine.  It's difficult to know where Mitchell leaves off and Redwood begins.

Slowly, slowly releasee the monkies!  sad
Having just seen the CW Dutch version,  big whitewash with better paint.  Asked about the parents, AR reacted like a hypnotised  subject. 
Rattles off their absolute status of innocence. 
Everything of note had been left out of the fairy story, frequent mention of 'mother Kate'. 

Losing bundle  man and replacing him with an as yet unknown blameless, if lost, parent isn't changing anything. Just makes it look as if SY have actually done something for the money. 
At least it's made people look up the Smith sighting.
Yes I too saw the Dutch McCann propaganda film, fronted by the 'oh so sincere' DCI Redwood.  Just as with the UK media all these years, it's amazing how the most significant information that points towards the McCann culpability, has somehow been miraculously whoosh clucked.   Redwood is making himself look very dodgy indeed, but credit where it's due, he has got a rather large McCann of worms to whitewash!

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Truthandjustice on 19.10.13 17:42

@logical wrote:Penneylane and others here

Can you explain or suggest how sy will whitewash the indications of the dogs? and the conclusions in the original pj police report ,the conclusions that British and Portugeese police came to in the early days of this case.
.......
The only way to whitewash the dogs would be to suggest the blood and cadaver scents were all planted I DONT THINK SO DO YOU ??no
This avenue has already been whitewashed by the British forensic laboratory that examined the samples.  The early reports of DNA matches were later retracted, and then found inconclusive, samples were contaminated and destroyed.  The dog alerts are not solid without DNA backup and dogs are 'notoriously unreliable' according to GM.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 19.10.13 18:34

@logical wrote:Penneylane and others here

Can you explain or suggest how sy will whitewash the indications of the dogs? and the conclusions in the original pj police report ,the conclusions that British and Portugeese police came to in the early days of this case.

I have always believed that Jane Tanners bundleman was invented because the entire Smith Family witnessed you know who carrying Madeleine that night.
I also beleive that SY having destroyed this Tanner statement are genuinely looking for any other witnesses to the you know who  the Smiths witnessed that night.

The difference between this case and the Hillsborough cover up is that the Police conclusions in the Mccann case are there in black and white for everyone to see them and more and more people are seeing them by the minute and Imo making it impossible for sy to whitewsh this case and get away with it.

The only way to whitewash the dogs would be to suggest the blood and cadaver scents were all planted I DONT THINK SO DO YOU ??no
Hi Logical and welcome to the forum. Regards the bit I've highlighted, I don't think SY will bother trying to whitewash the dogs. The dogs have been effectively ignored since 2008 when the McCanns arguido status was lifted. Apart from us die-hards and vile internet trolls  winkwink !! Scotland Yard, at this stage, have completely blanked it, at least in terms of what they are sharing with the public.

What they are really doing/thinking is anyones guess, at this stage we have absolutely NO IDEA what their end goal is, we can merely speculate.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by SixMillionQuid on 19.10.13 18:48

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@logical wrote:Penneylane and others here

Can you explain or suggest how sy will whitewash the indications of the dogs? and the conclusions in the original pj police report ,the conclusions that British and Portugeese police came to in the early days of this case.

I have always believed that Jane Tanners bundleman was invented because the entire Smith Family witnessed you know who carrying Madeleine that night.
I also beleive that SY having destroyed this Tanner statement are genuinely looking for any other witnesses to the you know who  the Smiths witnessed that night.

The difference between this case and the Hillsborough cover up is that the Police conclusions in the Mccann case are there in black and white for everyone to see them and more and more people are seeing them by the minute and Imo making it impossible for sy to whitewsh this case and get away with it.

The only way to whitewash the dogs would be to suggest the blood and cadaver scents were all planted I DONT THINK SO DO YOU ??no
Hi Logical and welcome to the forum. Regards the bit I've highlighted, I don't think SY will bother trying to whitewash the dogs. The dogs have been effectively ignored since 2008 when the McCanns arguido status was lifted. Apart from us die-hards and vile internet trolls  winkwink !! Scotland Yard, at this stage, have completely blanked it.

What they are really doing/thinking is anyones guess, at this stage we have absolutely NO IDEA what their end goal is, we can merely speculate.  
And that is how you whitewash this review. As far as I'm aware no journalist has mentioned the word "forensics" to Andy Redwood. They could have but choose not too. Redwood hasn't given his explanation how the abductor could have got in the apartment, but then again he doesn't need to.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by saltnpepper on 19.10.13 19:30

Why did the white washers ever allow Eddie with Grime to travel to the Algarve...surely the establishment could have put the kibosh on this = Job Done & save a few million quid

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by galena on 19.10.13 20:12

@endgame wrote:
@ProfessorPPlum wrote:If it's whitewash you don't spend £5m and several years opening it up and creating a LOT more uncertainty than  you started with all in the public eye. I still think the way to break the McCann 'pact' is to drown them in uncertainty. GM is a controller we can all see that. The one weapon you have against that is confusion; confusion so he loses his grip on every last tendril of every last little lie..
Maybe you have to look at the origins of the review to find an answer. Rebekah Brooks saw this as simply another in a long line of populist Sun campaigns, riding a bandwagon to sell newspapers and make the Sun look like it was a purveyor of good deeds. Cameron as so often saw an opportunity to appeal to the populist masses and improve his street credibility by supporting these terribly let down parents - as always completely misreading the popular mood. The timescale of decision making on this was incredibly quick - it wasn't a considered reaction just a knee jerk.

Then once they are in it they have to keep paddling even if somewhere along the line they realise they have backed a loser. Crimewatch was merely a response to growing unrest that apparently after 2 1/2 years and £5m, SY had achieved nothing. The purpose was to demonstrate that au contraire SY had done a brilliant job and here they were with all sorts of new theories. It was as much a PR job for SY as it was for the McCanns.

The enquiry was not originated by the Met and is not being paid for by the Met. Normal rules don't apply.
That sounds very likely. I am beginning to think that this is neither a whitewash or a a trap for the McCanns. They are simply going through the motions.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by pennylane on 19.10.13 20:27

@saltnpepper wrote:Why did the white washers ever allow Eddie with Grime to travel to the Algarve...surely the establishment could have put the kibosh on this = Job Done & save a few million quid
I don't believe there was a coverup until the initial damning FSS results were released, and they suddenly did that jaw dropping U-turn, further confirming that ALL the evidence had been destroyed during the testing process! This (imo) was when the coverup began to take hold, and when the British police, who were completely onside with the PJ, with 'call me Stu' stating "we've arrested people for less," were suddenly recalled to the UK, and dramatically changed their stance. Unfortunately by then the horse had truly bolted, and the McCann gaffes were legion.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by ShuBob on 19.10.13 20:46

@pennylane wrote:
@saltnpepper wrote:Why did the white washers ever allow Eddie with Grime to travel to the Algarve...surely the establishment could have put the kibosh on this = Job Done & save a few million quid
I don't believe there was a coverup until the initial damning FSS results were released, and they suddenly did that jaw dropping U-turn, further confirming that ALL the evidence had been destroyed during the testing process! This (imo) was when the coverup began to take hold, and when the British police, who were completely onside with the PJ, with 'call me Stu' stating "we've arrested people for less," were suddenly recalled to the UK, and dramatically changed their stance. Unfortunately by then the horse had truly bolted, and the McCann gaffes were legion.
Did they really change their stance in light of the revealing letter as mentioned in Kate's book following the couple's court case to force LEICS police into handing over some files? Something about one or more of the couple perhaps being involved?

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by pennylane on 19.10.13 21:26

@ShuBob wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@saltnpepper wrote:Why did the white washers ever allow Eddie with Grime to travel to the Algarve...surely the establishment could have put the kibosh on this = Job Done & save a few million quid
I don't believe there was a coverup until the initial damning FSS results were released, and they suddenly did that jaw dropping U-turn, further confirming that ALL the evidence had been destroyed during the testing process! This (imo) was when the coverup began to take hold, and when the British police, who were completely onside with the PJ, with 'call me Stu' stating "we've arrested people for less," were suddenly recalled to the UK, and dramatically changed their stance. Unfortunately by then the horse had truly bolted, and the McCann gaffes were legion.
Did they really change their stance in light of the revealing letter as mentioned in Kate's book following the couple's court case to force LEICS police into handing over some files? Something about one or more of the couple perhaps being involved?
Sorry, I haven't read Kate's book I'm afraid.  I do recall the handing over of a few police files which the McCann's obtained through the courts, I think Justice Hogg was presiding. I also recall Mitchell and the attorney looking decidedly sheepish outside the courthouse afterwards, and it being reported that they only got a smidgeon of the information they requested, and it was just useless addresses. But nothing is ever as it seems with those two, and I wasn't sure what had just gone down....

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by Seek truth on 19.10.13 21:32

@saltnpepper wrote:Why did the white washers ever allow Eddie with Grime to travel to the Algarve...surely the establishment could have put the kibosh on this = Job Done & save a few million quid
Because they thought the Portuguese were fools.

And when you're big headed that's how you behave.
And having no consideration for the twins, god knows what they're going through, let's just wait and see no matter how long.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by cockerspaniel on 19.10.13 22:09

@RIPM wrote:As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
Good post , I agree.high5

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by pennylane on 19.10.13 22:17

@cockerspaniel wrote:
@RIPM wrote:As a new member, could anybody explain why, apart from wishful thinking, do you have faith in DCI Redwood and his team?

This man has constantly said the Macs and the tapas seven are of no interest to this enquiry, so he is working from the outside in, instead of those close to the victim, out.  He is scouring Europe for leads on people already identified.

He will not mention sniffer dogs in any way shape or form.  Does Scotland Yard still have any faith in them?  

He sits on TV Sofas and thinks he is a celebrity  and after two years and millions of pounds he reveals Madeleine is alive or dead.

“Eat your heart out Sherlock”

If Madeleine was alive he leaves her for weeks to conform to BBC schedules, failure of duty at the very least.  This week, the best bit……….

Most informed people would say Tanner is the weak link but in one week, he turns her into the greatest most accurate and reliable witness, in the history of crime anywhere.

According to Redwood, JT is  totally accurate, flip-flopping up the road at 21.15 and seeing in the half light at a distance of 8 to 40 ft, and in a time of 2 to 5 seconds, a man carrying a child.  She describes the child and man and after a search of over 2 years costing millions, SY have found that man exactly as JT described in every way.

So Scotland Yard have confirmed Tanner is not a fantasist she saw the crèche man, down to the small pattern on the child’s legs.  SY have said so .They are the most respected Police force in the world, never a hint of scandal or rogue officers (cough).


Unless this man is identified, which will never happen, human rights etc., Tanner is off the hook, no charges can be brought, she has been totally cleared by SY`s finest.  The PJ will be blamed for the cock-up on the Smiths sighting and the British people will never be told the truth.  The Macs agree to wind up the fund, the Payne’s are never mentioned, Oldfield is glossed over, Clarence becomes an MP and life will go on.

This is my personal opinion based upon what DCI Redwood and the BBC showed to the British nation on Monday night.  He is the clean up man, not the finder of what happened to Madeleine McCann and he’s doing a good job.
Good post , I agree.high5
Yes good post, cockerspaniel. Redwood IS the cleanup man, and a very dirty one at that!

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by tiredofthebs on 20.10.13 0:06

@logical wrote:Penneylane and others here

Can you explain or suggest how sy will whitewash the indications of the dogs? and the conclusions in the original pj police report ,the conclusions that British and Portugeese police came to in the early days of this case.

I have always believed that Jane Tanners bundleman was invented because the entire Smith Family witnessed you know who carrying Madeleine that night.
I also beleive that SY having destroyed this Tanner statement are genuinely looking for any other witnesses to the you know who  the Smiths witnessed that night.

The difference between this case and the Hillsborough cover up is that the Police conclusions in the Mccann case are there in black and white for everyone to see them and more and more people are seeing them by the minute and Imo making it impossible for sy to whitewsh this case and get away with it.

The only way to whitewash the dogs would be to suggest the blood and cadaver scents were all planted I DONT THINK SO DO YOU ??no
As I said before, the skulls at HDLG became coconut shells and the 60 milk teeth found in the basement dungeon were concluded to have been "shed naturally."

The police can whitewash anything they like when the people at the very top sanction it.

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Re: Im slowly trusting Scotland Yards movements ....

Post by galena on 20.10.13 8:47

@saltnpepper wrote:Why did the white washers ever allow Eddie with Grime to travel to the Algarve...surely the establishment could have put the kibosh on this = Job Done & save a few million quid
Perhaps at the time the British establishment believed that the McCanns were innocent British parents in danger of being framed by the nasty foreign police?

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