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CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by tegan1973 on 17.10.13 20:21

@ShuBob wrote:
@Ollie1 wrote:Det Redwood back in May (can't remember if this is the correct month) asked for people to keep looking for Madeleine and they showed how she may look now, but in the Crimewatch programme the picture wasn't shown and nothing was said about the possibility of Madeleine being alive, I wonder why
The simple fact that viewers were teased for over a week about the Crimewatch 'special' confirmed to me Redwood wasn't looking for a live child.
Without a description or up to date aged photo, or reference to her eye, they are implying she is dead. How odd. I never thought of it like that. You are spot on.

ps You lot are all so clever. Your analysis of events just amazes me!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by lj on 17.10.13 20:36

@Truthandjustice wrote:Fascinating the way the PJ are rubbished in the media, they 'overlooked' the smith sighting etc.  The Mcs have tried to rubbish the PJ from the start and the spin continues. Perhaps they actually believed the PJ would be incompetent and would follow their version without question and it would all be done and dusted in a week or two.  Unfortunately they got more than they bargained for!

It's not only the pathetic parents though: Andy does his share of making the PJ and Dr. Amaral look bad. The best sign that Operation Grange is not so much about justice but more about creating "reasonable doubt". Completely ignoring the work PJ and Dr. Amaral had done on "Smith man" he does as if it is all his work (with 40 + officers and about £ 5 million.

I too do believe they never thought the PJ would do some real police work iso of taking their work as holy.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Jaci on 17.10.13 20:43

@MoonGoddess wrote:
@Jaci wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@tasprin wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@tasprin wrote:What ever time the abduction happened - 9.15 or 10.00 - there is still the question of sedation. Even the McCanns say the children were sedated but how did an abductor sedate three children without waking them? Oral or intravenous sedation would have woken them and chloroform would have left an unmistakable smell.
Sedation could very well be the reason for collusion. Fear of the consequences could have deterred them from bringing the little girl to a hospital. If she suffered a fatal injury whilst under the influence of sedatives one or more of them may have attempted to resuscitate her. It is not unknown for doctors to cover up for each other.
I agree to the doctors do cover  up for each other,but we are talking about a 3yr old little girl, what sort of people are these tapas 7 to do a thing like that unless all the children were sedated and if they were then i can see why a cover up occurred,yep Gerry and kate have got them over a barrel if this is the case.
Way, way back - don't I remember something about them saying that some of this group (not the Mccanns) had been away on holiday together before. Perhaps they had sedated/left their kids on this prev. holiday with no incidents and thought that this was the way to go on this holiday with the Mccanns -  however this time it went wrong....for what ever reason...Maddie woke sedated, felt dizzy and tripped (as you can do when you awake after taking a sleeping pill or sedation) or she had a reaction to it, or neither of these but just woke up and something else happenend...but because they'd all sedated their kiddie....Perhaps they felt a cover-up was necessary as they wouldn't want the other kids tested for medication - being Doctors....Just thinking aloud.
Yes if other members of the group were doing it they may have been sympathetic to their plight - justifying by saying 'We've all done it - why should they suffer any more'? - but at the same time worried about their own position.
And if it wasn't the Mccans Idea to sedate/leave, and if they weren't the supplier of the sedative/had the idea to leave.....Guilt all round from the others, and more significant guilt from particular members of the party.

Moongoddess - it might have been that article I can't remember...
Thank you for accepting me :) Another long time lurker. I might have made a previous account here but not too sure, I'm lousy at keeping track of things. Was posting on UK Justice Forum but it's impossible to have a decent conversation there without someone jumping on it!

Sorry, back to the topic...I could be reading this wrong but something Fiona said in her statement made me wonder if the McCann's might be sedating their children on (all) holidays but not when at home (because of Madeleine's sleeping chart on the fridge). Fiona says that on the Majorca holiday when Madeleine was only two years old and the twins six months old they slept right through the night: 

Reply
'We had a hideous time with our eldest that holiday, because she didn't sleep a wink for about two weeks, every night, so we were generally pacing around, erm, on the outside of the villa'. 

1485
Yeah'.

Reply
'At silly hours of the morning'.

1485
'And was their children'.

Reply
 'Very good'.
 
 1485
 'To sleep on time'' 
 
 Reply
 'Absolutely, they were like model children'. 
 
 1485
 'Sleeping through'' 
 
 Reply
 'Sleeping through, much to our distaste, because ours weren't. But, yeah, I mean, they, they'd always had a really good routine and Sean and Amelie at that point were incredibly, erm, you know, I think they were sleeping through actually and I think even were sleeping past when everyone else's kids were getting up, they were sort of model babies'.
hi so if that was Sept 2005 ....... trying to work out how old the twins were then?
Hello MoonGoddess hi 
Sorry, I forgot to post the link. I think Fiona said Madeleine was two years old and the twins were 6 months old

EDIT. Gave wrong link first time. Here's the right one lol

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Added the quote now that I've found it: 
 Reply
 'Well, again, I mean, I look back to Majorca and the twins were, what, only six months old and Madeleine, what, two, and still they, they were a slick machine, you know, a well oiled machine, the way they did everything routine, they were very much like I am with, and Dave, with our kids, very much operate by routine and, you know, bedtime routines and lunchtime routines, but they worked very hard and worked very hard together, erm, and made it look very easy and that's how it always came across with them, it never, it never seemed arduous or hard'.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 21:33

Madeleine McCann appeal: Police receive 2,400 calls and emails



Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have received more than 2,400 calls and emails since an appeal on BBC's Crimewatch on Monday.

Writing on Twitter, Det Ch Insp Andy Redwood said further appeals on similar programmes in the Netherlands and Germany had led to hundreds of calls.

Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, was three when she disappeared in Portugal in May 2007.

Det Ch Insp Redwood has said her abduction could have been pre-planned.

Detectives released two e-fits of a man seen carrying a child in Praia da Luz at 22:00 on the night Madeleine went missing and it was revealed that they now suspected Madeleine could have been taken later than previously thought - just before her mother returned to the apartment to check on her.

Following his appeal on Crimewatch, Det Ch Insp Redwood travelled to the Netherlands and Germany.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24575059#

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 21:39

In answer to your question Moon Goddess, the twins were born on 1st February 2005 so they were 7 months old on that holiday.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by MoonGoddess on 17.10.13 21:45

@Jaci - thank you for link. I haven't had a lot of experience of babies [apart from my own two/long time ago!] but I cant remember them sleeping through the night at that age.... let alone 'sleeping past when everyone else's kids were getting up'.... 

bit off topic, I had a friend many moons ago, that just couldn't cope with her 'hyperactive' child... she regularly '"dosed him up with phenergen" in order to give herself a break from it sad ..... I don't think it's uncommon really.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by MoonGoddess on 17.10.13 21:46

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:In answer to your question Moon Goddess, the twins were born on 1st February 2005 so they were 7 months old on that holiday.
Thank You.... perhaps others can enlighten as to whether it would be quite normal for two babies to be having a blissful nights sleep, along with a lie in...

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 21:48

In your dreams I'd say - except that you wouldn't be having any dreams, if you see what I mean!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Daisy on 17.10.13 21:59

@ShuBob wrote:
@mouse wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:
@Pennypennypenny wrote:Maybe one or two of the tapas 7 know but not all of them.
IMO they've ALL lied one way or another- either deliberately or by omission!
Bar Diane Webster - I think she was left out of the loop. Am I right in remembering she made a very interesting statement to the PJ
No. Including her IMO.
I agree Shubob.

@ Mouse, Diane Webster gave two statements to the PJ in May 2007. You're right, very interesting but not as interesting as the one she gave to Leicestershire police in 2008 when her memory greatly improved and key points were drastically changed.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by MoonGoddess on 17.10.13 22:05

Not sure if this is the thread that there was a discussion about stuff that had been held back from the files ??

Anyway, just came across this on my travels and thought it might? she a bit of light....

FocusYou state that you have not told everything that you know.

G.A. – And I haven’t.

FocusWhy?

G.A. – Because I am a jurist, too. Let’s see how the situation evolves.

FocusAnd how can the situation evolve?

G.A.The things that are missing are important in terms of the investigation, but they are ours… When it is said: these are your convictions… This is the understanding of a work team and even with the English police. And with documents. It’s this kind of thing, for any action that may be coming. I don’t believe, but who knows.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/08/i-was-close-to-finding-maddie.html

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Jaci on 17.10.13 22:18

@MoonGoddess wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:In answer to your question Moon Goddess, the twins were born on 1st February 2005 so they were 7 months old on that holiday.
Thank You.... perhaps others can enlighten as to whether it would be quite normal for two babies to be having a blissful nights sleep, along with a lie in...
I don't recall having bad nights with mine but if I did then I probably wouldn't remember anyway (like you, my babies days have long since gone).

Thank you from me too for the age of the twins No Fate Worse Than De'Ath. I didn't think to query Fiona's statement on that point, took it on face value

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Rufus T on 17.10.13 22:30

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:In your dreams I'd say - except that you wouldn't be having any dreams, if you see what I mean!
Absolutely NFWTD, in my experience children that young just do not naturally sleep for that long every night. thumbsup

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by nobodythereeither on 17.10.13 22:41

@MoonGoddess wrote:I had a friend many moons ago, that just couldn't cope with her 'hyperactive' child... she regularly '"dosed him up with phenergen" in order to give herself a break from it sad ..... I don't think it's uncommon really.
In the seventies I had a baby who cried what seemed like non-stop (as apparently I did too when I was a baby - my poor mother.).

My GP prescribed phenergan too - not for her sake, but for mine.

I don't think it's uncommon either, but I didn't give it to her night after night, nor did I give it to her  to enable me to leave her alone to go out on the piss with my friends  ......

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Pennypennypenny on 17.10.13 23:31

Gota say all three of my children were fantastic sleepers. Obviously the first couple of months were up and down but I really was very lucky.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by mouse on 17.10.13 23:50

I don't normally agree with Kate Mccann but on this occasion - my experience children can sleep through at this age, and my mother has just said that we all slept though okay at that age. I think it depends on the children and how lucky you are, or I guess, possibly controversial here - what kind of night-time routine you have. I think though as kids start to get a little older - nightmares/waking up happens more.


Going back to Diane Webster(big apology for not keeping up-to-date - I'm so old-school on this) and a big thank you to Daisy for up-dating me. I will certainly look it up as Diane always intrigued me - being the older member of the group, unattached, possibly different ideas in parenting and wasn't, as far as I know, a friend of the Mccanns before the holiday. I'm afraid I only remember her first statement - did it change dramatically then? Because if it did, that is even more interesting - and  one could only then deduce that she might have been let into the loop because of the possible negative outcome for her nearest and dearest.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by annemab on 18.10.13 0:14

Just in case it helps - and admin feel free to remove if it doesn't - my little girl has only just started "sleeping through" aged 3 years 8 months, and that was with the aid of a sticker chart. I think she still does wake up some nights as obviously we can't control that (e.g. not planning to sedate her!) and I wake up as soon as she does, so I do know, but we seem to have managed to "train" her to not come in to us until her special clock says she can. at 6.30am. She rarely has a lie-in. I've seen on here before some criticism of the parents for using a sticker chart, referring to them as "control freaks", now there are many different styles of parenting so I could be wrong here, but I don't think we have been control freaks for trying to improve her and (I admit, more importantly) our sleep in this way. If we had been punishing her for getting up in the night then yes, but what we have done is gentle encouragement. She still comes in to us if she is scared/ wet/ ill/ whatever, as that is what we are there for IMO. She was also a "screamer" having had colic and generally wanting company 24/7, it was hard at times I can't deny it, but no, we've never even joked about drugging her. On the other hand, older relatives have suggested various drugs, that are no longer available, that they seem to have used in the past to hep babies sleep. Older relatives also were more in favour of leaving her to "cry it out" and "self settle" - something which does seem to work for some families, but not for ours and, I suggest, possibly not for any "screamer". Not just older relatives though, but most of our friends also took this "cry it out" approach, which is recommended by the NHS.

I think what I'm trying to say is that there could well have been a clash of parenting styles in terms of sleep routines.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by annemab on 18.10.13 0:18

Just reread that post ad it reads like we have never given her any drugs - we do give calpol (infant paracetamol) and the ibuprofen equivalent - they are just for pain relief not sedation! On the rare occasions they have helped her sleep it's been because she's been in pain from teething/ cold/ ear infections, and they have relieved the pain, not because of any inherent sedative properties. I know this because of the numerous times I have given them, wondering if she was teething, and they have NOT helped her sleep!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by nobodythereeither on 18.10.13 0:33

@annemab wrote:Older relatives also were more in favour of leaving her to "cry it out" and "self settle" - something which does seem to work for some families, but not for ours and, I suggest, possibly not for any "screamer". Not just older relatives though, but most of our friends also took this "cry it out" approach, which is recommended by the NHS.
Is it really recommended by the NHS? I'm gobsmacked.

I'm a granny now, and I remember friends saying I should just leave my daughter to cry, but I really never could.

But that endless crying does wear you down  (she had colic - according to the GP), sometimes we had to push her round the streets in her pushchair (now buggy!) to get her to go to sleep, sometimes we  had to take her out in the car.

But I do remember sometimes also wanting to just throw her into her cot, and having a degree of empathy with child batterers.

Sorry, sort of off topic but also sort of not.

ETA: When she was quite little my then husband had to go away for a while to work, and would come back and find me in tears with a screaming baby in my arms. It's not easy, if you've got a child who cries a lot.

ETA: It's also not easy if you've got a three nearly four year old who is beginning to assert themselves and having major tantrums. Just saying.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by loopzdaloop on 18.10.13 0:39

@tiny wrote:
@tasprin wrote:What ever time the abduction happened - 9.15 or 10.00 - there is still the question of sedation. Even the McCanns say the children were sedated but how did an abductor sedate three children without waking them? Oral or intravenous sedation would have woken them and chloroform would have left an unmistakable smell.
Sedation could very well be the reason for collusion. Fear of the consequences could have deterred them from bringing the little girl to a hospital. If she suffered a fatal injury whilst under the influence of sedatives one or more of them may have attempted to resuscitate her. It is not unknown for doctors to cover up for each other.
I agree to the doctors do cover  up for each other,but we are talking about a 3yr old little girl, what sort of people are these tapas 7 to do a thing like that unless all the children were sedated and if they were then i can see why a cover up occurred,yep Gerry and kate have got them over a barrel if this is the case.
Its actually more common than you think for medical doctors to do things like this.

Lets put it this way, We know that Maddie had a sleep problem. We know this as Kate has said so and they also had a behaviour chart up on the wall.
For a behaviour chart to work, it requires persistence and consistency over time.
We know that the Mccann's were not persistent or consistent with this as evidenced by their abandonment night after night, to the point that like to claim that Maddie said "Why didn't you come for us last night" (NB: I don't believe she said that at all, I think the evidence points towards her dying the night before and the Mccann's claimed she said that to 'prove' that she was alive)

IF: Maddie had the sleep problem, the parents were not consistent in the behavioural intervention then the question must be.... HOW DID MADDIE STAY ASLEEP?
Especially with all these people coming in and out at night. Shutters, doors and patio doors are noisy.

Kate's specialty was anesthesiology. I bet she thought she knew exactly the right amount to get the children to sleep. However she made a mistake. Perhaps due to drink, perhaps due to increasing age of Maddie and tolerance.

IF: They admitted to an accident, there would have been an autopsy.
As well as being 'bad parents' for neglecting their children, they would have been crucified by the media for drugging their childrne.
They may have lost their over two children (that they tried so hard to conceive, hence IVF), as well as their professional careers.
What else can doctors do that have lost their license after so many years training? sod all.

They were between a rock and a hard place. I can understand that . I disagree with what they did, I think it was cowardly, but I can understand their predicament.
They should have gone quietly and got on with their lives. Yet, they did not know where to stop. They were probably already grandiose, yet they became more so.
The money from the fund, meeting the rich famous and powerful. They did not know where to stop. Hence where we are today. They have made another mistake.

*Edit, I posted this before catching up to the last page properly*

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by mouse on 18.10.13 0:41

Letting them cry is okay - you just find yourself, at the beginning, sitting/or laying outside their door and peeking quite alot...Just in case they really, really need you....and eventually....they go down.....but then as they then start to wake, as they get older, with nightmares....or of course they like to get up early...afterall the sun is out....Black out blinds are the way to go...

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by concerneduser on 18.10.13 0:47

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@tasprin wrote:What ever time the abduction happened - 9.15 or 10.00 - there is still the question of sedation. Even the McCanns say the children were sedated but how did an abductor sedate three children without waking them? Oral or intravenous sedation would have woken them and chloroform would have left an unmistakable smell.
Sedation could very well be the reason for collusion. Fear of the consequences could have deterred them from bringing the little girl to a hospital. If she suffered a fatal injury whilst under the influence of sedatives one or more of them may have attempted to resuscitate her. It is not unknown for doctors to cover up for each other.
I agree to the doctors do cover  up for each other,but we are talking about a 3yr old little girl, what sort of people are these tapas 7 to do a thing like that unless all the children were sedated and if they were then i can see why a cover up occurred,yep Gerry and kate have got them over a barrel if this is the case.
Its actually more common than you think for medical doctors to do things like this.

Lets put it this way, We know that Maddie had a sleep problem. We know this as Kate has said so and they also had a behaviour chart up on the wall.
For a behaviour chart to work, it requires persistence and consistency over time.
We know that the Mccann's were not persistent or consistent with this as evidenced by their abandonment night after night, to the point that like to claim that Maddie said "Why didn't you come for us last night" (NB: I don't believe she said that at all, I think the evidence points towards her dying the night before and the Mccann's claimed she said that to 'prove' that she was alive)

IF: Maddie had the sleep problem, the parents were not consistent in the behavioural intervention then the question must be.... HOW DID MADDIE STAY ASLEEP?
Especially with all these people coming in and out at night. Shutters, doors and patio doors are noisy.

Kate's specialty was anesthesiology. I bet she thought she knew exactly the right amount to get the children to sleep. However she made a mistake. Perhaps due to drink, perhaps due to increasing age of Maddie and tolerance.

IF: They admitted to an accident, there would have been an autopsy.
As well as being 'bad parents' for neglecting their children, they would have been crucified by the media for drugging their childrne.
They may have lost their over two children (that they tried so hard to conceive, hence IVF), as well as their professional careers.
What else can doctors do that have lost their license after so many years training? sod all.

They were between a rock and a hard place. I can understand that . I disagree with what they did, I think it was cowardly, but I can understand their predicament.
They should have gone quietly and got on with their lives. Yet, they did not know where to stop. They were probably already grandiose, yet they became more so.
The money from the fund, meeting the rich famous and powerful. They did not know where to stop. Hence where we are today. They have made another mistake.

*Edit, I posted this before catching up to the last page properly*
I'm new to this forum and don't know all the facts, when was the last public confirmed sighting of young Maddie?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Ollie1 on 18.10.13 1:22

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by nobodythereeither on 18.10.13 1:27

@Ollie1 wrote:Det Redmond has said this could of been a preplanned abduction, in which case the stain
on Madeleine's pyjama top and Madeleine asking where they were the previous night are either meaningless as if preplanned an abductor wouldn't of gone into the apartment the night before as part of his planning then returning again the following night, or there was no stain and no asking where parents were.
Eh?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Okeydokey on 18.10.13 1:29

@mouse wrote:I don't normally agree with Kate Mccann but on this occasion - my experience children can sleep through at this age, and my mother has just said that we all slept though okay at that age. I think it depends on the children and how lucky you are, or I guess, possibly controversial here - what kind of night-time routine you have. I think though as kids start to get a little older - nightmares/waking up happens more.


Going back to Diane Webster(big apology for not keeping up-to-date - I'm so old-school on this) and a big thank you to Daisy for up-dating me. I will certainly look it up as Diane always intrigued me - being the older member of the group, unattached, possibly different ideas in parenting and wasn't, as far as I know, a friend of the Mccanns before the holiday. I'm afraid I only remember her first statement - did it change dramatically then? Because if it did, that is even more interesting - and  one could only then deduce that she might have been let into the loop because of the possible negative outcome for her nearest and dearest.
Mouse... loads of children experience sleeping difficulties at that age!  And the proof is of course that the Police observed a star chart for Madeleine in her own home in the UK designed to discourage her from trying to get into her parents' bed during the night (I think a photo is in the Police files)  - she was clearly a child who woke during the night and wanted to go into her parents' bed for comfort. Perfectly natural. But the McCanns were equally clearly trying to condition her out of that behaviour.  As for routines...I remember a mother telling me she had the perfect child for going to bed and sleeping followed by the worst ever from an early age - and her bedtime routine hadn't changed. Children have all sorts of experiences in the womb and in illness etc that can lead to wakefulness in infancy.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by loopzdaloop on 18.10.13 1:51

@Okeydokey wrote:
@mouse wrote:I don't normally agree with Kate Mccann but on this occasion - my experience children can sleep through at this age, and my mother has just said that we all slept though okay at that age. I think it depends on the children and how lucky you are, or I guess, possibly controversial here - what kind of night-time routine you have. I think though as kids start to get a little older - nightmares/waking up happens more.


Going back to Diane Webster(big apology for not keeping up-to-date - I'm so old-school on this) and a big thank you to Daisy for up-dating me. I will certainly look it up as Diane always intrigued me - being the older member of the group, unattached, possibly different ideas in parenting and wasn't, as far as I know, a friend of the Mccanns before the holiday. I'm afraid I only remember her first statement - did it change dramatically then? Because if it did, that is even more interesting - and  one could only then deduce that she might have been let into the loop because of the possible negative outcome for her nearest and dearest.
Mouse... loads of children experience sleeping difficulties at that age!  And the proof is of course that the Police observed a star chart for Madeleine in her own home in the UK designed to discourage her from trying to get into her parents' bed during the night (I think a photo is in the Police files)  - she was clearly a child who woke during the night and wanted to go into her parents' bed for comfort. Perfectly natural. But the McCanns were equally clearly trying to condition her out of that behaviour. 
Disagree with the last comment.
The mccanns were clearly NOT trying to condition her out of her behaviour as a behaviour chart is not
Magic, it requires interaction and consistancy
Of implementation. This is mutually exclusive
To neglecting children night after night. Sending people in and out of the building for 'checks' (allegedly) is also not conducive
To helping a child.

To the new poster, please look up topics with relation to Mrs Fenn or 'the last photo' using the search buttton to see speculation as to the last time she was seen alive. Discussion on creche records is also relevant.

(Apologise for typos am on mobile)

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