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CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by ultimaThule on 03.12.13 17:31

They're 'putting thousands of pieces of information into the police Holmes computer'?

It seems to me they should give the pieces and a computer to a group of monkeys who, I suspect, will be more capable of producing a reconstruction worthy of Conan Doyle than the inaptly named Holmes programme.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by PeterMac on 03.12.13 17:43

[quote="ChillyHeat"]They are also working on a “computerised reconstruction” of the night she disappeared by putting thousands of pieces of information into the police Holmes computer.
I wonder if we will ever get to see the computerised reconstruction..... thinking 

If the McCanns do not know how HOLMES II works they are in for a shock
One of its functionalities is to flag up inconsistencies in, and between, and among statements.
And if they are using ANACAPA as well, which is highly likely, that actually draws flow charts with arrows pointing at the suspect
ANACAPA Analysis - Provides flow charts in respect of major crime investigations and other criminal enquiries where large amounts of analytical information requires presentation in easily understood charted format   "Easily understood" is code for - Jury friendly.
So Grange has known known right from the start that the original statements were invented.
Once they had been typed, or OMR scanned in, the bells would start to ring and the lights to flash.

" />

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by chillyheat on 03.12.13 17:44

@ultimaThule wrote:They're 'putting thousands of pieces of information into the police Holmes computer'?

It seems to me they should give the pieces and a computer to a group of monkeys who, I suspect, will be more capable of producing a reconstruction worthy of Conan Doyle than the inaptly named Holmes programme.
spit coffee .........notme

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by chillyheat on 03.12.13 17:50

@PeterMac wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:They are also working on a “computerised reconstruction” of the night she disappeared by putting thousands of pieces of information into the police Holmes computer.
I wonder if we will ever get to see the computerised reconstruction..... thinking 

If the McCanns do not know how HOLMES II works they are in for a shock
One of its functionalities is to flag up inconsistencies in, and between, and among statements.
And if they are using ANACAPA as well, which is highly likely, that actually draws flow charts with arrows pointing at the suspect
ANACAPA Analysis - Provides flow charts in respect of major crime investigations and other criminal enquiries where large amounts of analytical information requires presentation in easily understood charted format   "Easily understood" is code for - Jury friendly.
So Grange has known known right from the start that the original statements were invented.
Once they had been typed, or OMR scanned in, the bells would start to ring and the lights to flash.

" />
Peter, Do you think they would already have the reconstruction ?
The article is nearly two years old. What would be the delay do you think ?
Ive seen some really good 3d reconstructions on youtube with regards to the Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman case....Would it be something like that in the end ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGddNLZ3T9E

Something like this would be a good thing

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 03.12.13 17:53


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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by ultimaThule on 03.12.13 21:59

Châtelaine wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote: [...] The review / investigation was launched on the back of a particular newspaper campaign and not because there was a commitment from the Home Secretary to start one.
[...]
***
I am copying this from page 7 of the thread “Operation Grange Remit”:

Châtelaine wrote:
I've just seen a FOI doc on http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
which clearly demonstrates to on the very day that the Sun published McCs bombshell-letter to Cameron, May 12, 2011, Theresa May wrote a letter to Sir Paul Stephenson requesting the Met to take up the offer of the PJ to co-operate wit them on their review [started March 2011] on the McCann case ...

She mentions that
- the HO had continued to liaise with the Portuguese authorities
- the offer of of co-operation resulted from discussion between the UK ambassador and the PJ
- the request is supported  by  PM Cameron and
- the full costs will be covered by a Special Grant [HO]


and Portia’s comment:
If the Review was a 'done deal' before the pleading letter appeared on the front page of the Sun, then it suggests it was a PR exercise and a quick 'it was our idea anyway' gesture.
I see this letter as proof, if proof is needed, of the probability that the McCanns have been played like fish and are now caught in a net which will shortly land them in a place where they should have appeared some years ago.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Okeydokey on 04.12.13 1:11

@ultimaThule wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote: [...] The review / investigation was launched on the back of a particular newspaper campaign and not because there was a commitment from the Home Secretary to start one.
[...]
***
I am copying this from page 7 of the thread “Operation Grange Remit”:

Châtelaine wrote:
I've just seen a FOI doc on http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
which clearly demonstrates to on the very day that the Sun published McCs bombshell-letter to Cameron, May 12, 2011, Theresa May wrote a letter to Sir Paul Stephenson requesting the Met to take up the offer of the PJ to co-operate wit them on their review [started March 2011] on the McCann case ...

She mentions that
- the HO had continued to liaise with the Portuguese authorities
- the offer of of co-operation resulted from discussion between the UK ambassador and the PJ
- the request is supported  by  PM Cameron and
- the full costs will be covered by a Special Grant [HO]


and Portia’s comment:
If the Review was a 'done deal' before the pleading letter appeared on the front page of the Sun, then it suggests it was a PR exercise and a quick 'it was our idea anyway' gesture.
I see this letter as proof, if proof is needed, of the probability that the McCanns have been played like fish and are now caught in a net which will shortly land them in a place where they should have appeared some years ago.
Yes - now it begins to make sense.  That seems a very reasonable explanation of why the McCanns wanted a UK-based investigation.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by jozi on 04.12.13 8:17

@ultimaThule wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote: [...] The review / investigation was launched on the back of a particular newspaper campaign and not because there was a commitment from the Home Secretary to start one.
[...]
***
I am copying this from page 7 of the thread “Operation Grange Remit”:

Châtelaine wrote:
I've just seen a FOI doc on http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
which clearly demonstrates to on the very day that the Sun published McCs bombshell-letter to Cameron, May 12, 2011, Theresa May wrote a letter to Sir Paul Stephenson requesting the Met to take up the offer of the PJ to co-operate wit them on their review [started March 2011] on the McCann case ...

She mentions that
- the HO had continued to liaise with the Portuguese authorities
- the offer of of co-operation resulted from discussion between the UK ambassador and the PJ
- the request is supported  by  PM Cameron and
- the full costs will be covered by a Special Grant [HO]


and Portia’s comment:
If the Review was a 'done deal' before the pleading letter appeared on the front page of the Sun, then it suggests it was a PR exercise and a quick 'it was our idea anyway' gesture.
I see this letter as proof, if proof is needed, of the probability that the McCanns have been played like fish and are now caught in a net which will shortly land them in a place where they should have appeared some years ago.
I missed this little nugget the first time,it certainly looks like a positive but why is it taking them so long to line all the ducks up?

I'm sure suspects have been hauled in to give their explanation on less info than what we know about the Mcs ?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by The Rooster on 04.12.13 8:37

McCann thinks he's too clever for his opposition.  I also think he considers himself a grand media manipulator. A sort of Max Clifford with a stethoscope listening in to the workings of Whitehall.  I'm afraid the boy from Holyrood Secondary School is out of his depth.  Jumping around like a jester and throwing his rattle to the annoyance of those who really have their ear to the ground.  

When the time comes, ol' Gerry will answer to those upon high and pay to those upon low.  With only the specter of Christmas Future on his thin horizon his participation in the end game will surely be as desperate as his participation was at the beginning.  No mirth there then.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Woburn_exile on 04.12.13 8:50

@Okeydokey wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote: [...] The review / investigation was launched on the back of a particular newspaper campaign and not because there was a commitment from the Home Secretary to start one.
[...]
***
I am copying this from page 7 of the thread “Operation Grange Remit”:

Châtelaine wrote:
I've just seen a FOI doc on http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
which clearly demonstrates to on the very day that the Sun published McCs bombshell-letter to Cameron, May 12, 2011, Theresa May wrote a letter to Sir Paul Stephenson requesting the Met to take up the offer of the PJ to co-operate wit them on their review [started March 2011] on the McCann case ...

She mentions that
- the HO had continued to liaise with the Portuguese authorities
- the offer of of co-operation resulted from discussion between the UK ambassador and the PJ
- the request is supported  by  PM Cameron and
- the full costs will be covered by a Special Grant [HO]


and Portia’s comment:
If the Review was a 'done deal' before the pleading letter appeared on the front page of the Sun, then it suggests it was a PR exercise and a quick 'it was our idea anyway' gesture.
I see this letter as proof, if proof is needed, of the probability that the McCanns have been played like fish and are now caught in a net which will shortly land them in a place where they should have appeared some years ago.
Yes - now it begins to make sense.  That seems a very reasonable explanation of why the McCanns wanted a UK-based investigation.
Whatever you say about the McCanns they are not daft. They do not want any investigation beyond their version of events. It cannot have failed their notice that KM will crack, any of the Tapas gang might eventually crack (especially those without a medical career on the line) but any investigation in this day and age is not going to turn back the lies about the jemmied shutters and cadaverine scent. To me it just beggers belief that they could expose themselves in this way.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by ultimaThule on 04.12.13 11:42

"why is it taking them so long to line all the ducks up?

Because no agency wants to run the risk of an acquital when the perpetrators of heinous crimes are brought to account.

Despite the fact that it was within the McCanns' power to request the PJ to re-open their investigation, until very recently KM was complaining that no police force was searching for Madeleine.  Now she's got 2 on the case, with NSY's investigation alone having cost £6million and rising, one of her 'friends' has made it known to the press that the PJ 'aren't pulling their weight'.   It occurs to me that some people always have to find fault with others in order to disguise their own failings.

IMO while her parents are alive KM will not 'crack' and by the time they've joined the choir invisible the cement on her revised position of  'wronged victim of miscarriage of justice', resplendent with same old pizza hat, will be too firmly set for her to take a sledgehammer to it - and more especially when doing so will cause any vestige of sympathy she may attract from those too blind to see the ruthlessness behind the mask to dissipate and the oxygen of publicity to evaporate.

Also IMO, if some haven't already shown their eagerness to avoid or reduce any potential loss, it's precisely those who have the most to lose who will prove to be the most co-operative but, personally, I wouldn't want to see any individual in this sorry saga who has colluded in hiding and distorting the truth to go unpunished.   As I suspect my opinion in this respect is shared by others, this may be a contributing factor in the length of time it is taking to get the ducks lined up in a place where they can't be shot out of the water.

It seems a wee laddie from a secondary school is on a steep learning curve which is intended to dissaude him from any notion that he is as clever as he believes himself to be and which will provide time for him to reflect on the fact that, in the eyes of those movers and shakers who have the power to shape society, he's never been anything other than expendable.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Woburn_exile on 04.12.13 12:47

@ultimaThule wrote:"why is it taking them so long to line all the ducks up?

Because no agency wants to run the risk of an acquital when the perpetrators of heinous crimes are brought to account.

Despite the fact that it was within the McCanns' power to request the PJ to re-open their investigation, until very recently KM was complaining that no police force was searching for Madeleine.  Now she's got 2 on the case, with NSY's investigation alone having cost £6million and rising, one of her 'friends' has made it known to the press that the PJ 'aren't pulling their weight'.   It occurs to me that some people always have to find fault with others in order to disguise their own failings.

IMO while her parents are alive KM will not 'crack' and by the time they've joined the choir invisible the cement on her revised position of  'wronged victim of miscarriage of justice', resplendent with same old pizza hat, will be too firmly set for her to take a sledgehammer to it - and more especially when doing so will cause any vestige of sympathy she may attract from those too blind to see the ruthlessness behind the mask to dissipate and the oxygen of publicity to evaporate.

Also IMO, if some haven't already shown their eagerness to avoid or reduce any potential loss, it's precisely those who have the most to lose who will prove to be the most co-operative but, personally, I wouldn't want to see any individual in this sorry saga who has colluded in hiding and distorting the truth to go unpunished.   As I suspect my opinion in this respect is shared by others, this may be a contributing factor in the length of time it is taking to get the ducks lined up in a place where they can't be shot out of the water.

It seems a wee laddie from a secondary school is on a steep learning curve which is intended to dissaude him from any notion that he is as clever as he believes himself to be and which will provide time for him to reflect on the fact that, in the eyes of those movers and shakers who have the power to shape society, he's never been anything other than expendable.
The reason I believe that KM will crack is because she is the weakest link in all this. What ages are the children of the Tapas 7? Surely some of them are reaching  their teenage years. If they know or suspect anything peer pressure will be on them to kiss and tell. Are the parents of these children all prepared to subject them to a life of suspicion whilst growing up? Would they do this just to protect some of their former friends? Teenagers today crave attention, they will certainly get it albeit for the wrong reasons.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Guest on 04.12.13 12:52

The ages of the other tapas children range from 10 to 7 - not including the one I believe the Oldfields have had since 2007.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by mysterion on 04.12.13 13:52

Weren`t we all wee lads or lasses who went to secondary schools?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by ultimaThule on 04.12.13 15:03

Why are you of the opinion that KM is the 'weakest link', Woburn?

As neither the McCanns or the chums showed themselves to be overly concerned with the physical welfare of their very young offpsring back in 2007, I see no reason to believe that they've become any more caring about the wellbeing of their growing children.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Guest on 04.12.13 15:30

@ultimaThule wrote:Why are you of the opinion that KM is the 'weakest link', Woburn?

As neither the McCanns or the chums showed themselves to be overly concerned with the physical welfare of their very young offpsring back in 2007, I see no reason to believe that they've become any more caring about the wellbeing of their growing children.
Maybe it's like money - the more you have, the less careful you need to be?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by mysterion on 04.12.13 15:41

Whilst they were still suspects, the UK authorities took huge risks with the safety of the twins in their care.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by Woburn_exile on 04.12.13 19:43

@ultimaThule wrote:Why are you of the opinion that KM is the 'weakest link', Woburn?

As neither the McCanns or the chums showed themselves to be overly concerned with the physical welfare of their very young offpsring back in 2007, I see no reason to believe that they've become any more caring about the wellbeing of their growing children.
Because she panics when she is asked something out of the blue that she hasn't been coached on the official answer. Say for example GA wins out at the libel trial. The goes on some tv programme or other (you know the ones where women sit on sofas and cooch up to each other). Say for example she is being interviewed by Sonia Poulton:

SP Hello Kate, you look really lovely today by the way and I loved reading you book again. Kate the most harrowing moment was when you went back to the bedroom and suddenly found the curtains open. That must have been awful for you:empathy: empathy airkiss .

KM Yes  well erm you know suddenly whoosh door slam whoosh poor Madeleine whoosh missing whoosh shutters forced whoosh jemmied open erm whoosh  etcetc. empathy friends

SP well I've just read GAs book and his forensic team which have the same methods as in use by us and the PJ officially record that the window was opened from the inside probably by you? They can't all be wrong can't they?notme .

KM what beware Don't you think you should be asking the Pj  about this erm shutters opened afterward by abductor whoosh clunk madeleine taken .

SP Well now that you're here we just want a yes or no answer to these 3 Questions.
Kate:empathy: friends when yo see madeleine in your minds eye today do you see:

A.

B.

C.

Which one is it Kate, only you have the answer.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by chillyheat on 04.12.13 19:53

@Woburn_exile wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:Why are you of the opinion that KM is the 'weakest link', Woburn?

As neither the McCanns or the chums showed themselves to be overly concerned with the physical welfare of their very young offpsring back in 2007, I see no reason to believe that they've become any more caring about the wellbeing of their growing children.
Because she panics when she is asked something out of the blue that she hasn't been coached on the official answer. Say for example GA wins out at the libel trial. The goes on some tv programme or other (you know the ones where women sit on sofas and cooch up to each other). Say for example she is being interviewed by Sonia Poulton:

SP Hello Kate, you look really lovely today by the way and I loved reading you book again. Kate the most harrowing moment was when you went back to the bedroom and suddenly found the curtains open. That must have been awful for you:empathy: empathy airkiss .

KM Yes  well erm you know suddenly whoosh door slam whoosh poor Madeleine whoosh missing whoosh shutters forced whoosh jemmied open erm whoosh  etcetc. empathy friends

SP well I've just read GAs book and his forensic team which have the same methods as in use by us and the PJ officially record that the window was opened from the inside probably by you? They can't all be wrong can't they?notme .

KM what beware Don't you think you should be asking the Pj  about this erm shutters opened afterward by abductor whoosh clunk madeleine taken .

SP Well now that you're here we just want a yes or no answer to these 3 Questions.
Kate:empathy: friends when yo see madeleine in your minds eye today do you see:

A.

B.

C.

Which one is it Kate, only you have the answer.
Clever Headline...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/420369/How-I-unmasked-my-vile-Twitter-trolls

thinking

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by lj on 09.12.13 8:15

Châtelaine wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote: [...] "There's still gullible out there who will send them MONEY in envelopes" and there's also the less than gullible who have no doubt been making donations in a currency that cannot be used to buy goods, services, and pizza hats winkwink
***
Going through some old stuff, I recently found two 50 francs banknotes. Is that an idea ... ?
Those might be worth money one day!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by paul59539 on 09.12.13 14:38

Portuguese police released their own images of a different suspect, a 40-year-old heroin addict named Euclides “Toni” Monteiro from Cape Verde, who was fired by the Ocean Club—where he worked as a waiter—and who, police say, may have snatched the young Briton in revenge. None of Scotland Yard’s known leads point to Monteiro, who was fired one year before Madeleine disappeared. And there is a big problem with the Portuguese suspect: he’s dead. Montiero died in a tractor accident four years ago but Portuguese police are reportedly investigating the property where he lived in Lagos, Portugal with his wife.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/06/portuguese-police-name-dead-addict-as-madeleine-mccann-suspect.html

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by russiandoll on 15.12.13 16:17

In the interview with Kirsty Young, Kate describes Gerry returning promptly from tennis at 7 pm on 3rd May, he describes seeing the children on the sofa and on the video we hear him saying " see you soon " as the children leave the lounge area for the bedroom with Kate.
 She then describes telling the 3 of them a story after which we hear her with a video to match, saying that after story time Gerry came in to help settle them for the night.

 Yet in his 2nd statement in May he says this

At around 19H00, he made his way to the apartment, finding KATE and the children playing on the sofa. About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on MADELEINE's bed to read a story.


I find it incredible that a father would not recall this part of the evening one week later.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by PeterMac on 15.12.13 16:30

@russiandoll wrote:
I find it incredible that a father would not recall this part of the evening one week later.
He is not recalling it. He is making it up. That is the difference, and they keep forgetting which version they are on.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by russiandoll on 15.12.13 17:16

CW is well worth a re-watch. 

 No Amelie when they show the video just before the last photo was taken.

 The voiceover about the kids clubs, with a video of Kate handing over Maddie to a nanny outside.....no signing a child in.

 The video clip of the forensics at 5a...they chose to show the balcony area, with a chair perilously close to the balcony wall.

 Not long after showing the McCanns leaving and closing over but not locking the door.

 No Payne visit, no Tanner abductor. And no explanation for that bloody nuisance of a bedroom door.

 Many readers of " madeleine " who believed what they were fed must have been scratching their heads after CW.

 They arrived with a buggy! What happened to the Payne visit? Why were the Paynes described as the last 3 to arrive at the dinner table, but not named?

 Why was crecheman walking towards the crèche, rather than taking his child home?

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 2 DISCUSSION**** including CRIMEWATCH UPDATE (for what it was worth)

Post by russiandoll on 15.12.13 17:47


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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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