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Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 17.10.13 22:33

@Searcher wrote:Thankyou; but I still understand that - if material is reported in court (open court) as witness evidence - it can be reported in the media, without it being libellous?  I'm not sure how that would relate to any further action for libel if the case was lost.
Any statement made by members in the House of Commons cannot be cited as ground for defamation.

Unless specifically prohibited by order of the court, all or any part of a statement made in an open court of law can be reproduced by anyone at any time without fear of defamation unless, of course, such words have been taken completely out of context and used to support a finding other than that which the court has made.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by endgame on 17.10.13 22:38

@Searcher wrote:Yes, Endgame, I too have noted the hesitations in the witness statement; not that, for me, it detracts one bit from the message.  As you say, it would need to lead to other elements to be solid or pursued perhaps.  Even so, there is no ethical or legal reason for SY to leave it out of their current review?  We don't know if it is included or not.
I agree. I was just trying to express a more technical view of its potential status as evidence as opposed to what as you say could be a significant indicator in the investigation itself.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by tiredofthebs on 17.10.13 22:38

Shouldn't Payne's and Gerry's computers have been analysed after the Gaspars reported this to the police?

The Tapas 9 are above the law, or at least they were until now.

If Leicestershire Police really failed to hand this over to the PJ for 9 months and took no action themselves then they are accessories to it.

If the McCanns are ever brought to justice, I hope all the people who helped cover for them are too.

____________________
"Cadaver dog? What is it? Lassie?" - Philomena McCann, This Morning, September 2007

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 17.10.13 23:02

@Searcher wrote:Yes, Endgame, I too have noted the hesitations in the witness statement; not that, for me, it detracts one bit from the message.  As you say, it would need to lead to other elements to be solid or pursued perhaps.  Even so, there is no ethical or legal reason for SY to leave it out of their current review?  We don't know if it is included or not.
IMO we can safely assume every statement contained in the PJ files has been taken into account by SY and forms part of their investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.   

I don't find it all unusual that SY have failed to draw attention to the Gaspars' or any other statements relating to this case at this point in time and it remains to be seen whether all or any of them will see public light of day. 

It should be borne in mind that the general public are not routinely given sight of witness statements prior to any prosecution and the fact that some have been able to peruse them in this case is due to the Portuguese justice system which differs from that of the UK.

Other than the discovery of evidence which supports a revision of the timeline given by the McCanns' and their friends to the Portuguese police, we are not privy to any of the other actions which have been taken by SY but, given the content of certain witness statements, I would not expect the investigation to be anything less than thorough.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by tasprin on 17.10.13 23:03

Imo, what is wrong about the Gaspar statements is that they weren't forwarded to the Portuguese police immediately. They were held back for months which prevented the PJ from investigating them but, given a little child had vanished, I would've thought that information of that kind should have been followed up and ruled out, as a matter of urgency. Imo, in this instance, the media is right not to publish the statements but, having said that, they had no qualms about throwing Robert Murat under the bus. Unfortunately the UK media has different strokes for different folks.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 17.10.13 23:32

After those who are responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been brought to justice, I fully expect to see an Inquiry of the type which has followed other child murder cases from which it will emerge that differing interpretations by various regional police authorities in respect of confidientiality policy relating to information in their possession led to important documentation not being shared in a timely manner and mistakes being made from which 'lessons will be learned'... but, of course, they won't as they never are.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 0:07

Interesting posts, ultimaThule, and tasprin.  Some comfort in the thought that all statements will be taken into account; also agree that statements were not passed on quickly enough, it seems, to PJ.

I still have an image of a group of people walking into the unexpected; hope it may be true and some genuine justice for Madeleine.  [It would be interesting to log how many statements and actions were not passed on to PJ or taken forward by British police.]

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by loopzdaloop on 18.10.13 0:20

@corpushining wrote:I have just read the Gasper statement, source:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm

Two or three days had gone by, we were all staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun (Page 3) with our children. Possibly, around the fourth or perhaps the fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought numerous times about the incident that I am about to describe since that date.
One night, when we were on holiday, the adults, in other words, the couples that I mentioned were on a patio outside the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.
I was sitting between Dave and Gerry whom I believe were both talking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like ?she?, referring to Madeleine, ?would do this?.
When he mentioned ?this?, Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner there being an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.
I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) to see ?did anyone else hear this, or was it just me?. There was a nervous silence noted in the conversations of all the others and immediately afterwards everyone began talking again.
I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was something very strange and that it wasn't something that should be done or said.
Apart from this, I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to mention again that it was during a conversation, in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say precisely what it was about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, L., though I'm not certain. He slid one of his fingers in and out of his mouth, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that L., would behave or would do it.
I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.
I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he made the gestures I referred to, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, even though (page five) I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave saying and doing this a second time, I took it more seriously.
I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different way from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he might be interested in child pornography on the internet.
During our holidays, I was more attentive at the bath times after hearing Dave saying that.
My question is: why the hell hasnt this been covered by the Mail or the Express? They are obsessed with this story surely it adds a whole new dimension to the case?
The statement of Yvonne Martin, A child protection expert who met David Payne in Portugal also reveals similar concerns.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

@endgame wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:I take it there is no way of telling or finding out whether there is an injunction against reporting on either?
I think it's extremely unlikely that there is an injunction. If they did it for this, they would have to do it for a hundred other pieces of potentially damaging revelation and they would need to demonstrate that there was some risk of this being widely promoted in the media - the fact that we are discussing it shows that it is freely available information. Most injunctions come about to ward off some imminent threat like the Sun is about to publish a damaging story. Pre-emptive injunctions with no imminent threat are I think quite rare.

It seems far more likely that the press see this as a minor piece of "evidence" which hints at but proves nothing in the great scheme of things. The innuendo in any decision to publish would be that here was a group of paedophiles and that innuendo would be easily interpreted as the reason to publish. With nothing else to support such an allegation the press would be very exposed to a libel action. Don't underestimate the press's continuing nervousness about being sued by the McCanns or feeding the frenzy over press regulation.

My view is that the answer lies more in that direction than in an injunction.
I disagree entirely. Whether or not an injunction exists has no sway on the internet as to obey one, you have to know that it exists.
I am convinced that there is a super injunction on the subject that is quite wide ranging as evidenced by the name of David Payne being airbrushed from the Crimewatch episode. David Payne is a key character and was highly involved in all areas of this case. For him not to have been mentioned, yet other people were is really strange and indicative of a ban.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 0:32

I am hoping, loopzdaloop, that it is a tactic on the part of SY.  Agree super injunction tho.notme

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 18.10.13 0:42

@Searcher wrote:Interesting posts, ultimaThule, and tasprin.  Some comfort in the thought that all statements will be taken into account; also agree that statements were not passed on quickly enough, it seems, to PJ.

I still have an image of a group of people walking into the unexpected; hope it may be tru

e and some genuine justice for Madeleine.  [It would be interesting to log how many statements and actions were not passed on to PJ or taken forward by British police.]
IMO some members of a certain group of people have already, albeit many years after the event, walked into the inevitable expected and I suspect that the remainder will soon be following in their footsteps. winkwink

I also suspect NSY have been working with their Portuguese counterparts in a spirit of close co-operation, during which time there has been no restriction to the amount of information and documentation that has been, and is being, exchanged on both sides as they share the common aim of obtaining justice for a 3 year old child who did not deserve whatever fate has befallen her.

FWIW, I doubt there has been any need for a superinjunction in this matter as both the UK and Portuguese press are well aware of what constitutes defamatory material and that which may prejudice or impede the course of justice.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by nobodythereeither on 18.10.13 0:45



ETA: Is it just me, or does Madeleine appear to have lipstick on in this picture?

And why does she appear to be clutching this strange adult scarf?

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 0:46

A post with a lot of hope and good sense, ultimaThule; let's keep rooting for it.  titter

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by nobodythereeither on 18.10.13 0:47



I find this a really really disturbing picture, and even more so that the McCanns released it into the public domain after Madeleine "disappeared". Why??

Who took it, and when? Who else was there? Why has she got eye shadow on, and why is it taken from that angle?

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 1:07

Just looking at these two (well known) pictures of Madeleine, in what seems like full make-up. It strikes me how odd this is, for a parent to allow it or cause it. Those of us who have children and grand-children will probably sense how unacceptable it would be to make up a 3-year old child in adult cosmetics.

The child itself playing with lipsticks and mum's stuff is one thing; serious make-up for a photo is another.  I have to wonder how these pictures have come into the public domain; that's one thing.  The other is a deep-seated revulsion at putting any small child in such a position.  Where is the whole gut instinct against it?  It seems absent.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by nobodythereeither on 18.10.13 1:11




And here's Madeleine with no parent's arms around her.

Poor little girl.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by nobodythereeither on 18.10.13 1:14

@Searcher wrote:
The child itself playing with lipsticks and mum's stuff is one thing; serious make-up for a photo is another.

xxxxxxxx

Yes, exactly.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 18.10.13 1:31

@nobodythereeither wrote:

ETA: Is it just me, or does Madeleine appear to have lipstick on in this picture?

And why does she appear to be clutching this strange adult scarf?
This particular photo is one of many that worry me as she's doesn't appear to only be wearing lipstick; she also seems to have eye makeup -  mascara? khol? - and possibly blusher.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Who?What?Where? on 18.10.13 1:32

"I also suspect NSY have been working with their Portuguese counterparts in a spirit of close co-operation,"

That may or may not, be true. How would I know if that was true or not?

To me, that sounds, (scarily), close, to the constantly promoted, EU level of thinking and self agrandisement..

It is possible, just possible, that the constant promotion of this case, is nothing more than a part of that, long term, EU agenda.

Seriously, would you really want gerry mccann as your doctor or as your MP? Would you really want tony blair as president of the eu?

That might explain the unbelievable level of support, that the tapas9 have had?

How self serving do these people's action's have to be , before people start to see through them?

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 1:32

I still don't know how any parent - with even just a basic sense of responsibility and love - could leave three tinies in an unlocked apartment, near a main road, in the dark.  To claim it was "like dining in your own back garden" is beyond belief, when the apartment was not even visible from the Tapas bar.  I know this is old stuff, but that child cried for 75 minutes on the night of 1 May, by Mrs. Fenn's testimony - they were not checking, and that in itself makes the checking claims for the 3rd May all the more bizarre.  I would still like to know what was happening on 2nd May.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 1:33

Yes, Nobodythereeither, in the first picture with the scarf, I think there is eye make-up too inc. khol.  That is serious make-up.  [Apologies for typos and edits! it must be time for bed xx]

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 1:37

Who?What?Where? - bang on the money! (to coin a phrase ..!).  I will repeat again something I heard way back in 2007/08 from a journalist who said:  "If you knew what was happening before this you would not be surprised."  [I have edited that slightly because more was said.]  All hearsay, but I took it as genuine.

I would not be surprised at what we are dealing with.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by macgee on 18.10.13 2:24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIWyEdEB00 - odd photos of maddie from 50 secs

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 18.10.13 2:50

@Who?What?Where? wrote:"I also suspect NSY have been working with their Portuguese counterparts in a spirit of close co-operation,"

That may or may not, be true. How would I know if that was true or not?

To me, that sounds, (scarily), close, to the constantly promoted, EU level of thinking and self agrandisement..

It is possible, just possible, that the constant promotion of this case, is nothing more than a part of that, long term, EU agenda.

Seriously, would you really want gerry mccann as your doctor or as your MP? Would you really want tony blair as president of the eu?

That might explain the unbelievable level of support, that the tapas9 have had?

How self serving do these people's action's have to be , before people start to see through them?
You have taken one sentence out of some 300+ posts I've made and I'm wondering why you have chosen to use it to disseminate against me Who?What?Where?

FWIW, I've made it clear on this forum that from the time I first heard about disappearance of a 3 year old British girl from her shuttered bedroom in the holiday resort of Praia de Luz I on the morning of May 4th 2007, I was disbelieving that such an event could have happened and my disbelief was compounded when I first had sight of the McCanns at the time of their televised appeal for information that same evening.

I have never given any credence to the McCanns' version of events as it does not stand up to scrutiny nor, for that matter, do I believe that there has been some vast conspiracy occuring at a high government or other level to cover up the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann.

IMO, and with no disrespect whatsoever to the PJ who knew within weeks if not days who was culpable, had this crime occured in the UK the McCanns and others would have been arrested and tried no later than early 2008 (allowing for the length of time it can take for the cases of those accused who plead not guilty to criminal charges to come to Court).

Again IMO, the McCanns and their friends got lucky, in part due to the difficulties caused to the PJ by the lack of a common language together with the lack of a body and in part due to their, and their relatives/associates, manipulation and explotation of the media which in turn led to them being allowed to leave Portugal after being made arguidos.

I confess to having entertained some doubt which I have expressed on these pages about the efficacy of Andy Redwood's investigation but, after seeing the Crimewatch programme on Monday, I fully expect to hear news of arrests of the perpetrators of this crime being made in the very near future and while I am willing to apologise to Mr Redwood and his team for my fleeting misgivings about their abilities and intentions, I remain of the view that some of the shots of Andy in those godawful trailers preceding the broadcast show him as only needing a cape to become a one-eared Dracula on Halloween laughat 

If what I believe will come to pass does not come to pass, I will be first out with a placard and I will never stop campaigning until justice is done in this case.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by ultimaThule on 18.10.13 3:15

@Searcher wrote:I still don't know how any parent - with even just a basic sense of responsibility and love - could leave three tinies in an unlocked apartment, near a main road, in the dark.  To claim it was "like dining in your own back garden" is beyond belief, when the apartment was not even visible from the Tapas bar.  I know this is old stuff, but that child cried for 75 minutes on the night of 1 May, by Mrs. Fenn's testimony - they were not checking, and that in itself makes the checking claims for the 3rd May all the more bizarre.  I would still like to know what was happening on 2nd May.
No responsible or caring parent would leave underage children or infants in the circumstances you have outlined, Searcher, and no rightminded person could be anything less than outraged that the McCanns not only defended their behaviour but have failed to show any remorse for it.

The concept of remorse appears to be unfamiliar to either McCann and, given the obvious nature of Gerald Patrick, I won't be buying any version of events that has them and their pals panicking on the night of 3rd May 2007 or any other time for that matter.

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Re: Gaspar Statement: why no media coverage?

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 7:36

So right, ultimaThule, so right.  How odd is it then, that those of us who see that and feel it with all our hearts have been judged by some of the media as misgiuded, cruel extremists, even viscious trolls.  Couldn't make it up!!!!!fool

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