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GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 11:19

@MRNOODLES wrote:
@Julchen wrote:Hi all,
 I know ZDF are awful with their viewing outside Germany policy. I've struggled with that many times before.(hate it!)

I had a look on Youtube Germany and found the HD video. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PqA-ZTjG5Q


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bravo
Thank you Julchen, roses   Long programme featuring other things.  The Madeleine McCann piece starts at 1.19

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Daisy on 17.10.13 11:37

candyfloss wrote:Did anyone think it odd that they showed a plastic duck twice floating in water....once in the pool, and once in the sea being lapped onto shore in the waves?  Very odd

 GM I thought mentioned the door being opened wider when he went to check at 9.05 ish........how no-one had checked before then.
Agreed Candyfloss, very odd.  The plastic duck featured earlier on in the film too, Kate had it in her hand when they were all playing by the (very busy) poolside, intimating that it belonged to one of her kids.

Also noted: At least three of them were wearing watches, KM, GM, MO.

Carol Tranmer and her suspect shown in German version but left out of UK one. He didn't look anything like the description she gave in her statement. All very very odd.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by sallypelt on 17.10.13 11:49

I've just read this German CW thread and the differences between the UK one and the German one. Well, they are spoilt for choice, aren't they? With so many conflicting statements of what happened, CW could put out many more programmes, and each one could be different. And who from the T9 is going to complain? One may be able to say "no, no, it didn't happen that way", but another tapas member could say "yes it did".

Oh what a tangled web we weave....

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by MRNOODLES on 17.10.13 12:10

Anybody notice Gerry said, 'We loved Madeleine'.  (around 1:40:30)  But also reckons there's no evidence she's dead.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 17.10.13 12:11

The duck had a jesters hat on daft1 .

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by MRNOODLES on 17.10.13 12:14

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:The duck had a jesters hat on daft1 .
Meaning... You must be ducking joking. eyebrows

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 17.10.13 12:20

@MRNOODLES wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:The duck had a jesters hat on daft1 .
Meaning... You must be ducking joking. eyebrows
Oh duck off!!big grin  No, I don't mean it MrNoodles!

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Nereid on 17.10.13 12:37

Thank you Julchen, I'll have a watch of it later.

Don't understand why the reconstruction is so different from the British Crimewatch version. And what's with the rubbery duck? Artistic license by the director? Another prop so the story stays in our conscience?

Here's a typed out version. Not really a transcript but an amalgamation of what I managed to pick out form the English, dubbed German and German reporting.



Kate:                     She’s a huge part of our live and she always will be. We were 5, now there’s only 4.

Gerry:                   We miss her every day though. Without her a lot of things are no longer fun. It’s not the same.

Reporter:            Madeleine Beth McCann. Just a few days before her 4th birthday. This holiday photo  that shows Madeleine with her father and sister is the last that Kate and Gerry have of their child. The photo was taken the afternoon of 3rd May 2007. Few hours later she was no longer there.

Kate:                     It’s still very hard to get your head around. That something so catastrophic, so incomprehensible has happened to our daughter.

Reporter:            Praia da Luz on the Portuguese Algarve. It is Saturday the 28th April 2007 when Kate, Gerry and their 3 kids arrive at the holiday resort.

Gerry:                   It’s very relaxed and quiet little town in the pre-season. We were totally relaxed, the kids had fun.  It really was ideal holiday.

Reporter:            The group exists of 9 adults and 8 children. Madeleine and her siblings, the twins Sean and Amelie who are 2 years old.  In the Ocean Club a hotel complex that is mainly visited by English tourists the families occupies several holiday apartments. The McCanns are staying in apartment 5Athat is situated outside the actual complex.

Gerry:                   Madeleine was incredibly excited when we arrived and wanted to go in the pool right away.

Kate:                     She said, mummy let’s go swimming. It was freezing. It just seemed a very calm, peaceful resort to be in really. I couldn’t imagine that something as horrendous as what happened to Madeleine could happen.

(footage of them in the pool, playing with rubber duck)
Reporter:            Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood leads the specially set up Scotland Yard investigation from London.

Redwood:           Since 2011 I have worked on this case with my team that is made up of 37 police officers and staff. We have analysed over 30,000 documents, from Portugal, the UK and from Private Investigators. New findings and a fresh look enabled us to take the next step in our investigation. And interesting element of this case is the fact that the family and friends had a clear routine. Every evening they ate in the Tapas Bar of the Ocean Club. There was a book in which all reservations of everyone in the Tapas were visible. (book is shown in film).

Reporter:            What the McCanns didn’t know was that in the following days, near their apartment, unknown men were seen that acted suspiciously.

Redwood:           30th April a girl at 8 am a girl saw a man observing the McCann’s apartment. He has very short blonde hair and sun glasses on. Two days later the girl saw him again near the Ocean Club reception.

Thursday 3rd May 2007 a few hours before the dramatic happenings two men are seen at an apartment just a few metres from the McCann’s apartment.  Normally this would not be strange, but this apartment was not rented out.

We want to know what these men were doing. We believe they were speaking either  German or Dutch.

A few hours later a woman observes something. She’s visiting her aunt who lives above the McCann’s apartment. The woman who was looking over the balcony saw a man with short blonde hair. He shut the gate very carefully as if he didn’t want to be seen or heard. We don’t know if these sightings are linked.

Though on 2nd May again two men are seen close to the Internet Cafe.  They spoke German.

We want to know who these persons are.

Reporter:            At about 6 pm of the same evening another man is spotted near the apartment (stairwell). This man does not want to be seen.

Redwood:           Together all these sightings are of interest to us.

In April 2007 there were burglaries in holiday apartments shortly before the McCanns arrived.

 

Reporter:            About 7pm Kate and Gerry take the children to bed.

Kate:                     We did the usual nappies, toilet, teeth and said goodnight.

(Film footage: Kate leaves door slightly open and says so.)
Gerry:                   It was just really quiet, the kids had fallen asleep straightaway. We were having a glass of wine.

Kate:                     It was about 8.30, went to the Tapas Bar.

(They leave through patio doors.)
Reporter:            The patio door that opens onto the terrace, is closed by the McCanns, but not locked from the outside. The bar is 50 metres away. 

Gerry:                   The Tapas restaurant was so close to the apartment that we thought it’d be all ok to eat there. To me it was a bit like having dinner in the garden whilst the kids sleep in the house. Every 30 minutes or so one of us went to check that no one had woken up really.

Kate:                     I mean I think if you had to think about it for a second that it wouldn’t safe, it wouldn’t have happened. It felt safe. It wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

Gerry:                   We never think for a second that Madeleine could be in danger. And unfortunately you can’t change that decision.

Reporter:            It is shortly after 9 o’clock when Gerry does his first check.

(About 9.05 pm Gerry enters through patio doors )
Gerry:                   When I walked in and I saw that the door to the children’s room was open. I thought that is odd. Madeleine was sleeping in same position. At that moment I thought how lovely she was and how lucky as a family we were at that point. Actually that was the last time I saw her.

(Gerry leaves through patio doors.)
Reporter:            On the way back Gerry sees an acquaintance with whom he had played tennis in the afternoon.

(Gerry crosses the road)
Reporter:            They chat. Barely 5 minutes later Jane Tanner, friend of the McCanns goes for check on her children who sleep in one of the apartments. Janes sees a man carrying a child in pyajamas.

 (he walk to the left?)
Her sighting became the basis for countless theories and attempts at an explanation. Did Jane Tanner unknowingly witness Madeleine’s abduction or is it different to what it seems?

Redwood:           Over the last 6 years we thought that Jane Tanner saw the abductor. Our findings question this. We found a holiday maker who with his daughter in his arms went from a nearby crèche to his holiday home at the same time in the same place. We now think that the man Jane Tanner saw is not the abductor.
(View of table, which is rectangular)
Redwood:           At 9.20 pm the whole group was again at the table and started to eat. Was this the moment to strike?

(Cue creepy man in alley.)
Reporter:            Only 5 minutes later Kate wants to check on the children. But Matt Oldfield also goes to check

(puts hand on Kate’s shoulder, looks like he’s persuading her that she doesn’t need to check, Kate looks reluctant not to go. Russell [the actor looks more like David Payne] follows him.
Kate:     He was staying in the apartment next to us. It was one of those situations in which one thinks shall I go myself or not. And then I said, it’s ok.  I’ll do check next time.

Reporter:            About 21.30 Matt Oldfield enters apartment through patio doors. This time the door the children’s room is half open.  Because everything is quiet Matt doesn’t see reason to enter the children’s room.

Kate:                     Matt came back and said all’s quiet. Half an hour later at 10 I said I’ll go check.

(Kate leaves to check)
(shot of Rubber Ducky in pool)
 (Kates opens patio door, enters, and slides it to.)
Kate:                     All was quiet and I could see the children’s bedroom. The door to the children’s room was wide open and I thought that’s unusual. At that point I thought perhaps Matthew had opened it during his check and left it open. So I was just gonna pull it over a little bit. It was like it’d been caught by a draught. I looked to see if I’d left the patio door open, but it wasn’t open. So as I opened it I was looking at Madeleine’s bed, however I couldn’t make her out. Finally I realised she wasn’t there.  Has she gone through to our bedroom? Maybe she’s in our bed, maybe that’s why the door was open. But she wasn’t there.  I felt the fear, panic. Just as I got into their room, the curtains which were closed kind of went pssssssssss. The window was pushed right across and the shutters had been pushed up. That’s when I knew someone had taken her.

(Kate screams Madeleine, Madeleine, looks frantically for her, picks up cuddle cat form the bed. Looks in other rooms. Opens patio door, goes out, shuts patio door. )
Runs to Tapas bar. Shouts: “Madeleine ist weg, Madeleine ist weg” Madeleine ist weg, sie ist weg. = Madeleine is gone, she is gone.)
Gerry:                   It’s incredible from one minute our live that looked so perfect, changed, in the worst situation imaginable.

(They all pile into the apartment to look for her. One of the men is on the phone saying: At the Ocean Club. Come quickly, a child has disappeared.)
Kate:                     The only  reason I could see was that someone had abducted Madeleine. Of course you hope she’s somewhere nearby, you run around calling her name and you’re hoping that she’s just in bush hiding.

(some looking outside for her.)
Gerry:                   The worse scenario goes through your head, that she is abducted by a sex offender. That was, I mean why do children get stolen.  Everyone has heard of these sort of rare but horrible cases.

(About 10pm)

Reporter:            About 10 minutes walking distance form the McCann’s apartment witnesses see a man carrying a small child that seems to sleep on a street towards the beach.

Redwood:           Could the man who went in the direction of the beach with a child be completely innocent? He could be, perhaps a holiday maker on the way home. But on the grounds of the timeframe it seems very probable to me that this man is Madeleine’s abductor. We need to know who this person is. That’s why we are showing 2 e-fits of this man that haven’t been made public before.

We know that Madeleine McCann was abducted, we don’t know why. Was it a planned abduction or a burglary that went wrong when Madeleine disturbed the perpetrator but what I know for sure is that our investigation has raised new clear questions.

(Film, they return to apartment. Kate and Gerry crying and comforting each other.)
Gerry:                   Every second felt like an hour, every minute a lifetime when a child goes missing under such circumstances.

(Shot of rubber duck in sea)
Presenter:          The search for Madeleine throughout the night was without success. The following day the Portuguese Police combed the area around Praia da Luz

(original footage of search shown).
With every hour that passes Kate and Gerry are more convinced that Madeleine was abducted. On the advice of friends they decide to address the abductor through the media.

(Footage of Gerry’s plea to abductor.)
(Footage of Kate’s plea to abductor.)
Reporter:            Worldwide search for Madeleine starts.

                                Pope visit.

                                Four months later made arguidos.

The Portuguese believes that Madeleine had a fatal accident in the apartment and was hidden by her parents.

(Footage of them being made arguidos.)
Kate:                     Leaks, lies, misinformation that went to the media in August 2007 gave the impression that Madeleine was dead and that we had something to do with it. Whoever caused this, tried to tell the world that Madeleine is dead. And then people stop looking for her. For us that was just desperate.

Reporter:            This also leads to closing of the investigation (???)

On 21 July 2008 after almost 15 months the Portuguese close the investigation.

Gerry:                   I don’t think any parent of a missing child can every stop looking. That bond is so strong. You just have to know where they are, what happened.

Kate:                     We miss Madeleine incredibly .  I know she will be different living with other people (???), but she is still our daughter. We’re her mum and dad and she has a little brother and little sister. She belongs with us. Please have empathy and find the courage to tell us where she is and what has happened.

Gerry:                   I would like to tell her how much we loved her and that we won’t give up looking for her.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 12:41

Thank you so much Nereid, excellent clapping   You sure have good hearing big grin

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Daisy on 17.10.13 12:44

Thanks Nereid. That's very useful. thumbsup

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.10.13 12:59

Sue Hill EX cop on 'this morning' NOW saying the right hand 'photo fit' is now SPOTTY MAN!

SH: "Shaving spots all over his face"

Grabbit Edgar's 'spottyman' reappears!

But all us dumbass's couldn't see it cos it's not 'noticable'!

God, we are all so DUMB!

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by russiandoll on 17.10.13 13:02

@bristow wrote:Maybe the duck in the pool and the sea is representing a child who wandered off and drowned - or a child that was put in a pool or the sea after a tragic accident?
Just a thought.
  The duck is a typical bath-time toy. Didn't Kate wonder if Maddie cried at at bath time after the why didn't you come episode ?  [ and unheard by both parents if that had been the case], I don't associate it with a swimming pool.

 Probably means nothing though

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Nereid on 17.10.13 13:29

The studio interview is basically the same that's already been said:

The Smith sighting.

Sighting of dodgy man with sunglasses (added to say he could be Scandinavian)
Sighting of 2 men by empty apartment, speaking German or Dutch
Sighting from balcony of blonde man.
Sighting of 2 men by Internet Café, speaking German


Then at the end Redwood mentions a reward of £20,000 (24000 euros).

My German is a bit rusty, but I think that's the gist of it.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by sallypelt on 17.10.13 13:36

German broadcaster ZDF has received 500 phone calls and emails after airing a programme on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

http://news.sky.com/story/1155769/madeleine-mccann-500-calls-from-germany

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Nereid on 17.10.13 13:38

"
Kate:                     Leaks, lies, misinformation that went to the media in August 2007 gave the impression that Madeleine was dead and that we had something to do with it. Whoever caused this, tried to tell the world that Madeleine is dead. And then people stop looking for her. For us that was just desperate."


Amaral's book was published in 2008!!!!

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by russiandoll on 17.10.13 13:40

@jeanmonroe wrote:Sue Hill EX cop on 'this morning' NOW saying the right hand 'photo fit' is now SPOTTY MAN!

SH: "Shaving spots all over his face"

Grabbit Edgar's 'spottyman' reappears!

But all us dumbass's couldn't see it cos it's not 'noticable'!

God, we are all so DUMB!
 ignore Sue Hill who also said e fit man spoke German. Only ref to him is M Smith and he never heard this.

 German speaking men/man near 5a during day I think.

 Workmen came to fix a blind didn't they...which day was that ?

 I know,  they would be Portuguese....but men in swimtrunks in a holiday resort frequented by Germans.... nothing too strange in that imo

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by MoonGoddess on 17.10.13 13:59

@Nereid wrote:"
Kate:                     Leaks, lies, misinformation that went to the media in August 2007 gave the impression that Madeleine was dead and that we had something to do with it. Whoever caused this, tried to tell the world that Madeleine is dead. And then people stop looking for her. For us that was just desperate."


Amaral's book was published in 2008!!!!
Good spot!!

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by windchime on 17.10.13 14:13

@Mirage wrote:Why is the German version getting the JW meets GM bit AND on GM's preferred side of the road ie opposite stairwell. Then JT comes up the street and sees the man with child crossing. It is then revealed that this was creche man as per our version.

The other thing of note was the great play of MO insisting on the check in place of KM and a lot of headshaking from KM who has jumped to her feet and casting looks of uncertainty around. MO is very insistent. He goes. She sits again, with the reluctant look still on face. I don't speak German but it wasn't hard to spot that there was a great emphasis on this exchange. All very weird.
 Re: MO -  They did the same thing in the UK version - hubby and son pointed it out to me - I wonder why??

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Julchen on 17.10.13 14:19

@sallypelt wrote:German broadcaster ZDF has received 500 phone calls and emails after airing a programme on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

http://news.sky.com/story/1155769/madeleine-mccann-500-calls-from-germany
500 phone calls isn't much(they've got a huge audience, always had!).
You have to understand that "Klein-Maddie"(Wee Maddie) is on the same press output level as was Lady Diana. Hence the emontionally over the top cuddly family side of the story.
Bild and Co., the equivalents to Sun and Co. are trying to make the most (money) out of the case:
http://www.bild.de/news/inland/maddie-mccann/nach-aktenzeichen-xy-wie-geht-es-weiter-fragen-33008176.bild.html
Nothing to write home about, really.
Other cases on XY were more important to local investigations/police. E.G.: http://www.general-anzeiger-bonn.de/region/rhein-sieg-kreis/koenigswinter/Ein-Dutzend-Anrufe-nach-Aktenzeichen-XY-article1173299.html

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Different versions

Post by Jauna Loca on 17.10.13 14:22

Have only skimmed this topic so forgive me if info has already been posted.
I read somewhere that the Dutch/German reconstruction was paid for by the Madeleine Fund
and therefore made to Parent's specification, rather than Police version.
Any truth in this?
UK version the one that was shown here in Ireland by the way.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 15:06

Moved here for Aquila......
@aquila wrote:
@aquila wrote:I've just watched the German 'reconstruction' and to say I'm angry is an understatement. I'm too busy to go into much detail.

If you compare the German version to the UK version it's so very clear that they are almost like an advert to appeal to a consumer buying a holiday or a lifestyle.

The UK version shows an apartment which bears little/no resemblance to 5a whatsoever (white leather sofas, designer table and chairs, everything all white). The Tapas Bar shows a round table.

The German version shows a completely different apartment and an oblong table at the Tapas Bar.

I'm really sorry I don't have time to go into all the details I've noticed but I just need to say that what in the name of all that's holy and truthful could allow such disparate videos to go out?

So, I have a few questions.

1. Who produced the videos? - production company details compulsory.

2. Who paid for these productions?

3. Did the McCanns view these productions and endorse their release as true?

4. Did Scotland Yard have any involvement/input to the production of these videos?

5. WHO is responsible for this?

6. WHY are there two different productions? surely there is only one truth.

I'm leaving out the details of the wholly different presentation of the family between the two videos as I don't have time.

WHY don't the McCanns insist on accuracy? Oh, I've just answered my own question - it's for the same reason they apparently refuse to do a reconstruction.

aquila - spitting feathers, sick to her stomach and totally pissed off with the pantomime.
@candyfloss - sorry CF I posted this in the wrong topic. Would it be possible to move it to the German Version of Crimewatch please.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Humanist on 17.10.13 15:32

@bristow wrote:Maybe the duck in the pool and the sea is representing a child who wandered off and drowned - or a child that was put in a pool or the sea after a tragic accident?
Just a thought.
My first thought was a rubber duck is played with in the bath.
Forum myth or fact was that David Payne bathed the children.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Daisy on 17.10.13 15:51

@Nereid wrote:"
Kate:                     Leaks, lies, misinformation that went to the media in August 2007 gave the impression that Madeleine was dead and that we had something to do with it. Whoever caused this, tried to tell the world that Madeleine is dead. And then people stop looking for her. For us that was just desperate."


Amaral's book was published in 2008!!!!
Well spotted Nereid! Perhaps you could copy this to the Libel trial thread? It's highly relevant. yes

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by boo boos on 17.10.13 16:08

Noticed Gerry was wearing beige trousers. It looked like an abduction with poor innocent parents - absolutely no bearing on what could have happened - more like what should have happened. After all this time viewers could be forgiven for wondering if there should be some forensic evidence which should have given the police a few pointers. Its six + years, not just happened within nothing to go on. No need to take it back to zero - just trust the Pj and Amaral.

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Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

Post by Nereid on 17.10.13 16:12

@Daisy wrote:
Well spotted Nereid! Perhaps you could copy this to the Libel trial thread? It's highly relevant. yes
Done smilie

Nereid

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