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Matt Oldfields 'check'

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Hicks on 17.10.13 20:01

Don't forget that Mrs Carpenter heard Madeleine's name being called at around 9.20/30.
Either MO or GM couldn't find M. Someone was looking for her as she was obviously not in bed.
Could it be possible that GM panicked, took M out of the apartment without Kate's knowledge?  Is that why she had those bruises on her wrists from fighting with him when she found out?

GM is cool and calculating, we have heard how driven he is, entirely capable of making an instant decision to act 

When Kate was by herself( GM in UK?) she phoned the PJ, tearful admitting for the first time that M could have died?
Without GM driving force I reckon KM would have cracked by now.

All my opinion.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by tiredofthebs on 17.10.13 20:22

Did any of these checks actually take place?  I was always under the impression that this "checking system" was effectively just a means of creating alibis for them all and convince us that they hadn't just dumped (and probably sedated) their kids while they were out.

In fact, this checking lark is exactly what aroused my suspicion about this when I first heard of the case on May 4th 2007.

This is why I think a lot of it is a red herring. As is the debate over "neglect". The McCanns like that debate really because is distracts from the real issue.

The sequence of events, IMO, is that something happened to Madeleine possibly that day but also possibly the previous night and that the Tapas crew went out and left the kids alone in order to create a timeframe for an abductor.

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Re Matthew Oldfields checks

Post by RIPM on 17.10.13 20:44

Ask yourself, would you be afraid if a strange person you did not know was standing at the open door to your bedroom in the half dark.  But this is what we are led to believe with M.O. and the McCann children.

He hardly knew Madeleine and what parent would let a stranger call on their vunerable children.  Imo, its too stupid for words.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Beanie on 17.10.13 20:53

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/oldfield.jpg

I have always wondered why it was Matthew who comforted Kate and not Gerry.

Perhaps some kind person could bring the picture over for me.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by ChuckieD on 17.10.13 20:57

@RIPM wrote:Ask yourself, would you be afraid if a strange person you did not know was standing at the open door to your bedroom in the half dark.  But this is what we are led to believe with M.O. and the McCann children.

He hardly knew Madeleine and what parent would let a stranger call on their vunerable children.  Imo, its too stupid for words.
Wasn't their reasoning for not getting a babysitter not wanting the kids to wake up to a stranger? Waking up totally alone was perfectly fine, however. 

Do the tapas staff's statements give any info on the evenings before? I did read them ages ago but can't remember. Guessing it was probably the same staff for the most part all week so was all this dining table aerobics the norm, were they up and down like yo-yos all week? Seems like a lot of hassle to me, you can't really enjoy an evening if people are coming and going every couple of minutes, I think I'd rather just stay in!

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Hicks on 17.10.13 20:57

@tiredofthebs wrote:Did any of these checks actually take place?  I was always under the impression that this "checking system" was effectively just a means of creating alibis for them all and convince us that they hadn't just dumped (and probably sedated) their kids while they were out.

In fact, this checking lark is exactly what aroused my suspicion about this when I first heard of the case on May 4th 2007.

This is why I think a lot of it is a red herring. As is the debate over "neglect". The McCanns like that debate really because is distracts from the real issue.

The sequence of events, IMO, is that something happened to Madeleine possibly that day but also possibly the previous night and that the Tapas crew went out and left the kids alone in order to create a timeframe for an abductor.
That could be possible, however there are independent witnesses who saw (mainly the men) leave the table at different times. See OC staff witness statements. Some employees state that the table was empty by 9.30 except for one female(Diane Webster)
The timeline put forward to the PJ is incorrect. I believe that it was adjusted to fit around the removal. 

The real neglect happened on nights previous to the 3rd.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Lance De Boils on 17.10.13 21:11

@sallypelt wrote:As it has already been stated, Matthew Oldfield and Adrian J Oldfield aren't brothers, and I too, have done a check and, to-date, I cannot find any immediate connection.
I've looked into this. Their Mothers' maiden names are different. I can find no connection between them. (Not so far, anyway!)

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by JackieL on 17.10.13 21:18

@Hicks wrote:Don't forget that Mrs Carpenter heard Madeleine's name being called at around 9.20/30.
Either MO or GM couldn't find M. Someone was looking for her as she was obviously not in bed.
Could it be possible that GM panicked, took M out of the apartment without Kate's knowledge?  Is that why she had those bruises on her wrists from fighting with him when she found out?

GM is cool and calculating, we have heard how driven he is, entirely capable of making an instant decision to act 

When Kate was by herself( GM in UK?) she phoned the PJ, tearful admitting for the first time that M could have died?
Without GM driving force I reckon KM would have cracked by now.

All my opinion.
agreed.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by StraightThinking on 17.10.13 21:19

@Hicks wrote:
Some employees state that the table was empty by 9.30 except for one female(Diane Webster)
The staff are likely to be reliable re timings because their job requires an awareness of the time
Whether the alarm was at 21.30 or, as some have suggested, 21.40, it was still 15-25 minutes earlier than the accepted time of 21.55-22.00
The problem with this is that it means the timings of all the checks have to be revised backwards and ultimately squeezed into a 30 minute slot - one by G, two by JT, two by MO (one with RO'B) and one very long one by RO'B, that's a lot of checks in 30 mins!

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by bobbin on 17.10.13 21:36

@Lance De Boils wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:As it has already been stated, Matthew Oldfield and Adrian J Oldfield aren't brothers, and I too, have done a check and, to-date, I cannot find any immediate connection.
I've looked into this. Their Mothers' maiden names are different. I can find no connection between them. (Not so far, anyway!)
Cousins or something else,? half brothers through the father's line ?
However, although I want to respect the fact that Adrian Oldfield should be left alone, I have now determined that the efits were made by the McCs P.I.s
If it is correct, and they did not get to interview the Smiths, according to Martin Smith's newspaper statement, how did the P.I.s get the info to make the pictures.
Now given that the McCs P.I.s have produced an efit picture that is so absolutely like Adrian Oldfield, who is attached to the PACT organisation, which has been involved with the McCs, how on earth did such a similarity come about.
I know it's a coincidence apparently, that Matthew and Adrian share the same surname, but what has PACT, the McCs and the P.I.s done for the efit to be so accurate in detail that as one of our posters said, the line above the lip is missing, making the similarity uncanny.
Yet, the Smithman was wearing Gerry's same look buttoned trousers.
Obviously the P.I.s are not going to make an efit of Gerry, but why have they made one so uncannily similar to another Oldfield, from an organisation connected with the McCs.

ETA, and kept the pictures withheld until the new SY investigation required to have all of the P.I.s collected material.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Hicks on 17.10.13 21:46

@StraightThinking wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
Some employees state that the table was empty by 9.30 except for one female(Diane Webster)
The staff are likely to be reliable re timings because their job requires an awareness of the time
Whether the alarm was at 21.30 or, as some have suggested, 21.40, it was still 15-25 minutes earlier than the accepted time of 21.55-22.00
The problem with this is that it means the timings of all the checks have to be revised backwards and ultimately squeezed into a 30 minute slot - one by G, two by JT, two by MO (one with RO'B) and one very long one by RO'B, that's a lot of checks in 30 mins!
This gives GM time to be the Smithman  doesn't it?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by JackieL on 17.10.13 22:05

Something I've never found plausible is this story of Matt's that he went back the first time to supposedly "chivvy along" the Paynes. I can't imagine that anyone would be so bossy  as toactually get up and go back to hassle a couple and the mother of one of the couple to hurry down to dinner. I can imagine the others sitting there whinging about the latecomers, but I can't see anyone actually being so rude as to go and hurry them along - especially not with the mother there.

Presumably if he did go, it was because the others were hungry and wanted to eat.  But then we're supposed to believe that having met them on the way down to the Tapas, Matt decides to carry on up to the apartments to do an impromptu check!  Delaying dinner still further!

None of this rings true to me.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by MRNOODLES on 17.10.13 22:26

@Beanie wrote:http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/oldfield.jpg

I have always wondered why it was Matthew who comforted Kate and not Gerry.

Perhaps some kind person could bring the picture over for me.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Beanie on 17.10.13 22:29

MRNOODLES

Thank you:roses:

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 22:35

@MRNOODLES wrote:
@Beanie wrote:http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/oldfield.jpg

I have always wondered why it was Matthew who comforted Kate and not Gerry.

Perhaps some kind person could bring the picture over for me.
That's the pic ^^^ they have used in the Portugal story re BBC I have just posted.  Strange,not K & G.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by suzyjohnson on 17.10.13 23:06

Didn't Matt go jogging with Kate one afternoon as well?

Regarding the checks, is it possible that it is the other way round, that far from behaving suspiciously that Matt was concerned about the McCann children? Perhaps he thought that KM and GM did not check on them often enough? After all the McCanns were out until almost midnight some nights (I don't know whether both the Oldfields were out at that time, didn't Rachel stay in on the Wednesday?) Perhaps Madeleine's crying disturbed their own daughter who was only in the next-door apartment.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by tiredofthebs on 17.10.13 23:09

@suzyjohnson wrote:Didn't Matt go jogging with Kate one afternoon as well?

Regarding the checks, is it possible that it is the other way round, that far from behaving suspiciously that Matt was concerned about the McCann children? Perhaps he thought that KM and GM did not check on them often enough? After all the McCanns were out until almost midnight some nights (I don't know whether both the Oldfields were out at that time, didn't Rachel stay in on the Wednesday?) Perhaps Madeleine's crying disturbed their own daughter who was only in the next-door apartment.
That whole jogging thing really was weird. The feeling back in 2007 was that they were jogging to check a burial site or temporary hiding place hadn't been disturbed. Either that or they were jogging to ensure they weren't bugged. Who goes jogging when they think their child has just been kidnapped by swarthy paedophiles?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 23:15

@tiredofthebs wrote:
Who goes jogging when they think their child has just been kidnapped by swarthy paedophiles?
In my opinion, only those who know darn well that their child has not been kidnapped by swarthy paedophiles.

Mr Noodles, I love Kermit the Frog (entirely platonic of course) but is there any chance you could change your avatar to a still picture of him? Thank you very much.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Mirage on 17.10.13 23:15

I saw someone had mentioned the discrepancies between Dianne Webster's interviews. Apologies if I'm duplicating anything but I am pretty boggle-eyed from reading like most of us. Below is another example of improving memory and added detail over time. First up, her interview by PJ in 2007 followed by the Leicester rogatory 13 months later.

 Interview PJ 11th May 2007


Asked, she adds that she went to the restaurant in the company of her daughter and son-in-law.
 
Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the Payne couple) for dinner the witness said no.
 
Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
 
That night she judges to have arrived at the restaurant close to 21h00, in the company of the Payne couple.
 
That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and Matt had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
 
In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.


Rogatory Leicester Police HQ 11th April 2008

4078    ”And then the, you arrived a little late. What can you remember of the evening then?”
Reply    ”Well we arrived about, I don’t know, ten to nine, five to nine, which was very late. Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.”
4078    ”Right.”
Reply    ”Err so I do, I do remember that although I didn’t remember it clearly at the time err so we got down to the table err I think we ordered our starters.”
4078    ”Do you remember who was there when you got there?”
Reply    ”Well Matt obviously wasn’t because we we’d just passed him but of course I don’t remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn’t there, but maybe he was, you know, I don’t know.”
4078    ”You can’t be sure?”
Reply    ”I can’t be sure because it’s not something that I think I need to remember, you know at the time, its not something you need to remember.”

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by nobodythereeither on 17.10.13 23:24

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
Mr Noodles, I love Kermit the Frog (entirely platonic of course) but is there any chance you could change your avatar to a still picture of him? Thank you very much.
I love that avatar, please don't change him!!!

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 23:27

Perhaps we could take a vote on it. Flashing images, lights etc are a nightmare for me.

Sorry to go off topic!

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by nobodythereeither on 17.10.13 23:31

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Perhaps we could take a vote on it. Flashing images, lights etc are a nightmare for me.

Sorry to go off topic!
Fair enough, that's reason enough for a still image. xxx

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 23:37

@nobodythereeither wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
Mr Noodles, I love Kermit the Frog (entirely platonic of course) but is there any chance you could change your avatar to a still picture of him? Thank you very much.
I love that avatar, please don't change him!!!
I have asked MR Noodles to change it.  It is too big and overlaps the side of the margin, and therefore cuts the beginning of the words off in the left hand margin.  Unfortunately it will have to go.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Woofer on 17.10.13 23:38

@JackieL wrote:Something I've never found plausible is this story of Matt's that he went back the first time to supposedly "chivvy along" the Paynes. I can't imagine that anyone would be so bossy  as toactually get up and go back to hassle a couple and the mother of one of the couple to hurry down to dinner. I can imagine the others sitting there whinging about the latecomers, but I can't see anyone actually being so rude as to go and hurry them along - especially not with the mother there.

Presumably if he did go, it was because the others were hungry and wanted to eat.  But then we're supposed to believe that having met them on the way down to the Tapas, Matt decides to carry on up to the apartments to do an impromptu check!  Delaying dinner still further!

None of this rings true to me.
Diane Webster says different in her 1st statment on 4.5.07 -

  "That night she judges to have arrived at the restaurant close to 21:00, in the company of the PAYNE couple.
- That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
- In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.



But in her rogatory in 2008  she says he did and made a joke -

"Reply    ”Well we arrived about, I don’t know, ten to nine, five to nine, which was very late. Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.”
4078    ”Right.”
Reply    ”Err so I do, I do remember that although I didn’t remember it clearly at the time err so we got down to the table err I think we ordered our starters.”
4078    ”Do you remember who was there when you got there?”
Reply    ”Well Matt obviously wasn’t because we we’d just passed him but of course I don’t remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn’t there, but maybe he was, you know, I don’t know.”


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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Daisy on 17.10.13 23:44

@Mirage wrote:I saw someone had mentioned the discrepancies between Dianne Webster's interviews. Apologies if I'm duplicating anything but I am pretty boggle-eyed from reading like most of us. Below is another example of improving memory and added detail over time. First up, her interview by PJ in 2007 followed by the Leicester rogatory 13 months later.

 Interview PJ 11th May 2007


Asked, she adds that she went to the restaurant in the company of her daughter and son-in-law.
 
Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the Payne couple) for dinner the witness said no.
 
Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
 
That night she judges to have arrived at the restaurant close to 21h00, in the company of the Payne couple.
 
That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and Matt had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
 
In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.


Rogatory Leicester Police HQ 11th April 2008

4078    ”And then the, you arrived a little late. What can you remember of the evening then?”
Reply    ”Well we arrived about, I don’t know, ten to nine, five to nine, which was very late. Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.”
4078    ”Right.”
Reply    ”Err so I do, I do remember that although I didn’t remember it clearly at the time err so we got down to the table err I think we ordered our starters.”
4078    ”Do you remember who was there when you got there?”
Reply    ”Well Matt obviously wasn’t because we we’d just passed him but of course I don’t remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn’t there, but maybe he was, you know, I don’t know.”
4078    ”You can’t be sure?”
Reply    ”I can’t be sure because it’s not something that I think I need to remember, you know at the time, its not something you need to remember.”
That's the stuff I was referring to earlier Mirage. Not a very trustworthy witness is she? nah

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