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Matt Oldfields 'check'

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Guest on 18.10.13 14:42

@gbwales wrote:
@Rufus T wrote:
" So I approached the room but I didn't actually go in because you could see the twins in the cots and one of the, you could see the twins in the cots because they're in with, sort of the cots were in the middle of the room with sort of a gap of about sort of maybe a foot between the two, the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them, erm, see them breathing and there were two there and it was all completely quiet. And the other things you could see in the room, there was a, there was another bed at the back underneath the window at the far side and you could see the end of the bed, another bed here."


extract from MO's rog. 
So he was able to see them breathing from outside the room in the dark, and yet people were having to check them for signs of life by touch later. Wish I had that level of eyesight.
Yes, radar eyes, for he had to look right trough them because they were lying on their bellies, were they not?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Guest on 18.10.13 14:45

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Lance De Boils wrote:It would appear that it was very important for DW to REMEMBER SEEING MO. So important, that she had to retract what she had previously said  and say that she DID see him, after all. [How do the other two's (Paynes) statements compare?]
WHY would it be so important for DW to have seen him? Only reason I can think of is to give him an alibi for that time. In other words, he couldn't be anywhere else, because DW saw him right there. Why was an alibi so important?

As for MO being the one comforting Kate... Maybe he had "feelings" for her? Maybe he KNEW more than the others? Maybe he felt guilty?
Did I read somewhere this was to be a 'make or break' holiday for the McCanns who were said to be strapped for cash but, curiously, were able to join their pals on a not particularly cheap break despite not being in possession of any credit cards?

I wondered if Gezza had been making eyes at the nanny who was meant to accompany the family but cried off and allegedly returned to Canada.  An aside: if Gezza turned those eyes on me I'd be on the next plane to Oz.

If the gruesomes' marital problems weren't occasioned by Gezza's roving eye or by their lack of readies, could it be that Hotlips Healy had been engaging in extracurricular activity with another guy or gal?
Could be. Someone/something -a small dog she says- did bite her in the leg

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Sceneset on 18.10.13 15:02

I also think the 'bite on the leg' story is odd. Yet again drawing our attention to something that bears no relevance to the situation. 

Maybe it was mentioned and explained away in case it was noticed. 
If that's the case, it wasn't caused by a dog and we have no reason to believe it. It wasn't remembered by others or relevant there's no need for it to be explained. Maybe it is a piece of the jigsaw.

Maybe an angry/ frustrated toddler having a tantrum bit Kate?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by bobbin on 18.10.13 15:39

@Sceneset wrote:I also think the 'bite on the leg' story is odd. Yet again drawing our attention to something that bears no relevance to the situation. 

Maybe it was mentioned and explained away in case it was noticed. 
If that's the case, it wasn't caused by a dog and we have no reason to believe it. It wasn't remembered by others or relevant there's no need for it to be explained. Maybe it is a piece of the jigsaw.

Maybe an angry/ frustrated toddler having a tantrum bit Kate?
I think the dog bite is the usual back filling. A blood stained shoe mark was found on the car boot area, size 5 /6 UK measure, in such a position as if lifting something heavy into the boot. The dog bite story would seem crass since Kate didn't go for a rabies check, which given the many wild dogs running around in Portugal, she should have known, as a doctor, would be the FIRST thing to check out and treat, aside from any infection.
Yes, and Matt, seeing how 'caring' he is for her in that photo, would not let her leg go untreated, nor would he have forgotten to talk about it in his statements.
Someone just previously has said that the McCs etc. watch here, getting the right ideas on what to prepare a counter-acting story for.
I am certain they do. Michael Wright has admitted it, as have farter muck...Hi kevin and all, you must be very busy at the moment. Hope you're all still getting paid for your very hard work and that the fund hasn't run dry yet.
The only problem is that 'back-filling' shouts itself out, loud and clear. The truth can't be bent, back-filling is a sign of desperation to cover up and it's screamingly obvious. spin 

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by russiandoll on 18.10.13 16:24

@bodiddly wrote:There were apparently three children in there so you check for and check on three children. It is as simple as that. You only check on two if you KNOW there are only two.

So he never checked at all or he did a thorough check on two.
Why would anyone with any sense walk all that way and not take a few extra SECONDS to LOOK in the room ?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by windchime on 18.10.13 16:30

@russiandoll wrote:
@bodiddly wrote:There were apparently three children in there so you check for and check on three children. It is as simple as that. You only check on two if you KNOW there are only two.

So he never checked at all or he did a thorough check on two.
Why would anyone with any sense walk all that way and not take a few extra SECONDS to LOOK in the room ?
Because he only went in to use the loo (see bathroom thread!!)  there were no children in there as the twins were sleeping (very soundly) elsewhere for the time being and his comment about seeing two was because at this point he knew there were only 2 to check on.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Sceneset on 18.10.13 16:31

I had forgotten about where the bloody shoe imprint was found Bobbin...I hadn't linked the dog  bite ( blood?) and the bloody shoe, it does sound like a rather clumsily concocted 'explanation' by Kate.

At least if they're monitoring the forum and working out ways to further explain inconsistencies that may be revealed to a wider audience in the future, it will be easily noticed and compared to the signed statements.

 The attempts to explain oddities in more and more ridiculous ways will just leave a longer trail of desperation, cunning and untruths for all to marvel at.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by windchime on 18.10.13 16:33

@Sceneset wrote:I had forgotten about where the bloody shoe imprint was found Bobbin...I hadn't linked the dog  bite ( blood?) and the bloody shoe, it does sound like a rather clumsy concocted 'explanation' by Kate.

At least if they're monitoring the forum and working out ways to further explain inconsistencies that may be revealed to a wider audience in the future, it will be easily noticed and compared to the signed statements.

 The attempts to explain oddities in more and more ridiculous ways will just leave a longer trail of desperation, cunning and untruths for all to marvel at.
There were plenty of photos and videos of the two stood outside the apartment in the first few days and I am sure some must have been full length shots - are there any perhaps that would show a bite mark (wound) on the leg I wonder?  Off to have a look.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Sceneset on 18.10.13 16:48

Fabulous idea Windchime, I had a quick look but have to go out...the PDL church photos on the birthday show lots if leg, but the quality doesn't appear to be good enough to be sure...

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Daisy on 18.10.13 16:57

Some very interesting points being made there about DW guys. thumbsup  Her statements just like the rest are full of discrepancies.


Here's something else that the PJ seemed to think was quite important but conveniently slips her mind. She remembers the quiz but completely forgets about Najoua Chekaya the aerobics instructor/quiz lady that Gerry invites to the table.


DW- Prompted, she explains that in all the dinners during the holidays only members of the group had participated, never having any strangers with them at the table that they usually occupied.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm


NC- She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them for a drink.

She was at their table for about fifteen to twenty minutes and it was there that she met Madeleine's father, who directly invited her to the table, however, she does not know whether Madeleines mother was also there.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NAJOUA_CHEKAYA.htm


Najoua Chekaya


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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Hicks on 18.10.13 17:06

@Sceneset wrote:I had forgotten about where the bloody shoe imprint was found Bobbin...I hadn't linked the dog  bite ( blood?) and the bloody shoe, it does sound like a rather clumsily concocted 'explanation' by Kate.

At least if they're monitoring the forum and working out ways to further explain inconsistencies that may be revealed to a wider audience in the future, it will be easily noticed and compared to the signed statements.

 The attempts to explain oddities in more and more ridiculous ways will just leave a longer trail of desperation, cunning and untruths for all to marvel at.
Are you talking about the bloody footprint found in 5a?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by tigger on 18.10.13 17:09

Tuesday night was also quiz night at Chaplins. You know, the place right next to the church the location of which, like Chaplins was not known to them. 
That's why they had to ask a policeman. winkwink 

Btw I don't think Gerry is the type who likes large, busty women. I don't believe the story here, we discussed in another topic that it had to do with the rumpled bed under the window. The idea was that the twins slept on that bed - there are numerous slips of the tongue - and the rumpled state had to be explained.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by windchime on 18.10.13 17:18

NC says '.........she doesn't remember if Madeleine's mother was also there' - is this also not very strange thing to say - considering all the publicity and the events that started on the evening of 3rd May you would definitely remember whether Kate was at the table that night or not.  IMO

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by russiandoll on 18.10.13 17:32

@windchime wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:
@bodiddly wrote:There were apparently three children in there so you check for and check on three children. It is as simple as that. You only check on two if you KNOW there are only two.

So he never checked at all or he did a thorough check on two.
Why would anyone with any sense walk all that way and not take a few extra SECONDS to LOOK in the room ?
Because he only went in to use the loo (see bathroom thread!!)  there were no children in there as the twins were sleeping (very soundly) elsewhere for the time being and his comment about seeing two was because at this point he knew there were only 2 to check on.
   I have never read MO say that he used the toilet in 5a. That was Gerry at 9.05.

 My q was rhetorical btw....... no one checking would do a 50 metre walk go in and just listen imo.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Daisy on 18.10.13 17:41

@tigger wrote:Tuesday night was also quiz night at Chaplins. You know, the place right next to the church the location of which, like Chaplins was not known to them. 
That's why they had to ask a policeman. winkwink 

Btw I don't think Gerry is the type who likes large, busty women. I don't believe the story here, we discussed in another topic that it had to do with the rumpled bed under the window. The idea was that the twins slept on that bed - there are numerous slips of the tongue - and the rumpled state had to be explained.
I'm with you on the first bit Tigger that's for sure. Not following your other points though. I'm intrigued by this topic you mention could you point me the right direction of the thread please?  roses  I'm aware I'm taking this one off topic.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Daisy on 18.10.13 17:50

@windchime wrote:NC says '.........she doesn't remember if Madeleine's mother was also there' - is this also not very strange thing to say - considering all the publicity and the events that started on the evening of 3rd May you would definitely remember whether Kate was at the table that night or not.  IMO
Yes, that's my thoughts too.  She'd just finished doing the quiz, she would surely have known her audience and who was sat where?

Edit:  To the casual reader, someone that hadn't read NC's statement you'd probably believe the spin that Kate was actually there.


"Aerobics instructor Najoua Chekaya was chatting with Gerry and Kate McCann and their friends when Madeleine, then three, vanished from the family's Algarve apartment in Praia da Luz.


That night, Ms Chekaya had organised a bar quiz at the Ocean Club resort where the McCanns were staying. Her evidence is understood to corroborate the McCanns' movements in the hour before the disappearance was discovered"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-475704/I-just-want-home-says-fitness-teacher-key-witness.html

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Sceneset on 18.10.13 18:18

Hicks, no, we wondered about the bloody footprint on the car...

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Rufus T on 18.10.13 21:09

@Daisy wrote:
@windchime wrote:NC says '.........she doesn't remember if Madeleine's mother was also there' - is this also not very strange thing to say - considering all the publicity and the events that started on the evening of 3rd May you would definitely remember whether Kate was at the table that night or not.  IMO
Yes, that's my thoughts too.  She'd just finished doing the quiz, she would surely have known her audience and who was sat where?

Edit:  To the casual reader, someone that hadn't read NC's statement you'd probably believe the spin that Kate was actually there.


"Aerobics instructor Najoua Chekaya was chatting with Gerry and Kate McCann and their friends when Madeleine, then three, vanished from the family's Algarve apartment in Praia da Luz.


That night, Ms Chekaya had organised a bar quiz at the Ocean Club resort where the McCanns were staying. Her evidence is understood to corroborate the McCanns' movements in the hour before the disappearance was discovered"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-475704/I-just-want-home-says-fitness-teacher-key-witness.html
It was on the Tuesday night that she sat with them though, not the Thursday - just check her pj statement as quoted earlier.HTH

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Daisy on 18.10.13 22:29

@Rufus T wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@windchime wrote:NC says '.........she doesn't remember if Madeleine's mother was also there' - is this also not very strange thing to say - considering all the publicity and the events that started on the evening of 3rd May you would definitely remember whether Kate was at the table that night or not.  IMO
Yes, that's my thoughts too.  She'd just finished doing the quiz, she would surely have known her audience and who was sat where?

Edit:  To the casual reader, someone that hadn't read NC's statement you'd probably believe the spin that Kate was actually there.


"Aerobics instructor Najoua Chekaya was chatting with Gerry and Kate McCann and their friends when Madeleine, then three, vanished from the family's Algarve apartment in Praia da Luz.


That night, Ms Chekaya had organised a bar quiz at the Ocean Club resort where the McCanns were staying. Her evidence is understood to corroborate the McCanns' movements in the hour before the disappearance was discovered"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-475704/I-just-want-home-says-fitness-teacher-key-witness.html
It was on the Tuesday night that she sat with them though, not the Thursday - just check her pj statement as quoted earlier.HTH
 That's my point. By the time it reached the mainstream all facts had been altered.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Woofer on 18.10.13 23:03

Wasn`t a bloody footprint found in the apartment - that`s more likely to be it, after the run on the Wednesday.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Sceneset on 18.10.13 23:26

Yes, sorry, the bloody footprint was by the bedroom door and the matching print above the bumper of the Scenic, consistant with someone heaving something into the boot, did not have any traces of blood on it.
Maybe she thought she'd cover all the bases just in case some blood residue had remained.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by gbwales on 18.10.13 23:30

Probably the best place to look for any bites to the legs are in TV news video clips rather than still photos... There's probably more chance of long shots with their staged walks from the apartment etc.

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by nobodythereeither on 19.10.13 21:08

@Sceneset wrote:Yes, sorry, the bloody footprint was by the bedroom door and the matching print above the bumper of the Scenic, consistant with someone heaving something into the boot, did not have any traces of blood on it.
Maybe she thought she'd cover all the bases just in case some blood residue had remained.
Do you have a link to this bloody footprint?

I was under the impression that this was a forum myth which had been discounted long ago?

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Re: Matt Oldfields 'check'

Post by Jaci on 19.10.13 21:12

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@Sceneset wrote:Yes, sorry, the bloody footprint was by the bedroom door and the matching print above the bumper of the Scenic, consistant with someone heaving something into the boot, did not have any traces of blood on it.
Maybe she thought she'd cover all the bases just in case some blood residue had remained.
Do you have a link to this bloody footprint?

I was under the impression that this was a forum myth which had been discounted long ago?
I remember this but couldn't find a reference to it in the PJ Files. However, the MSM seemed to think it existed:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-bloody-footprint-found-in-mccanns-apartment-6642364.html

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What does the new evidence mean for the window of opportunity for MO?

Post by Fierljepper on 25.10.13 22:31

Read lot today and tried not to drown too much in the details. Try to keep the fresh innocent newbie perspective... winkwink 

Honestly have say that I went through many 'opinion swings' about who could have done it. Reading the various statements and Rogatory interviews, have put me know in a state of mind that there is not big chance there was some form of advanced collusion happening within the Tapas 9 group and also not between GM and KM in particular.  Different versions of the truth occur in any criminal case and especially the different interpretations between GM and JT about where GM and his tennis friend where spotted on the road, could just be noise caused by poor memory (I have been very certain about specific memories I had, that proved to be horribly wrong. The brain plays many tricks with memory).

On the other hand I still find the abduction by a well organised group of crimimals, still very difficult to digest, although if there really is not single hard piece of evidence tracing the case back to one of the Tapas 9, then this could be what actually happened (and is where the very thorough Andy Redwood investigation seems to be landing as well).

But what about Matthew Oldfield, the guy that semi-checked the appartment around 9:30. What does the falsification of the JT observation imply for his timelines? He got separated from RoB who decided to stay with his child (that was ill) and he was completely on his own. I can't yet conceive of a (decently publishable) motive for him to do any harm to Maddie, but he at least had the opportunity to open the shutters (the he strangely enough explicitely reported to be closed when he listened at the 5A department window earlier that evening). Suppose something happened to Maddie that involved him when he checked the appartment and that in the spur of the moment he decided to enact an abduction crime and that he was the one who temporarily hid the body in or close to his own department (next door, nobody there except his sleeping child). It would be nicely in line with the consistent direction/track the dogs followed pointing to the left of 5A. But when at 10PM Kate raised the alarm and everybody started to run around in panic, he could (in that chaos) have picked up the body again (note the first place he rushed back to was his own house, which is obviously also understandable from the need to check whether his own child was ok. But he then told his wife to stay in the house and he went out again all by himself to the reception to call the police just 10 mins after the alarm (Has this been this checked?) and shortly after that he walked to the Millennium Restaurant to raise alarm there as well (has that been checked?). So, he puts himself shortly after 10PM away from the scene all by himself on the east side of the appartment. However, if this could also be a concocted alibi made in hindsight and was he actually the one seen carrying Maddie around 10:10-ish by the Smith group (and he knew they'd seen him since there was eye-contact, hence he decided to place himself exactly on the other side of the park at that timeframe).

Is there a reliable report of when MO returned at the Tapas bar after checking with the children (the first timeline written on the children's book cover does only mention RoB returning, and there is nothing about MO coming back. Note he did check 3 houses.) ?

Another possible (similar) scenario involving MO, could be that Maddie did leave her bed and he encountered her (inside or outside on the patio) looking for her parents. And then it could be something as stupid as him trying to lift Maddie and dropping her on the floor (or stairs outside) by total accident. So, it could have started with a very clumsy event like that, but his mind then getting so worried that he took the series of very wrong decisions with the purpose to move any guilt away from him. And the adage "the longer you wait, the tougher it gets to tell the truth", then did the rest.

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