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Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Rufus T on 23.10.13 21:21

@plebgate wrote:What I don't understand is why, if the efit pics had been lying around in the Pis files for 5 years, the release of them was timed for now.

 It has been reported that the CW Appeal had been in the making for approx 6 months, well not having seen it but having read the posts on here about it, how would that take six months to make?

The other thing is why did they choose the Cardiff BBC to broadcast it.   Was it because it was decided to broadcast it at short notice and Cardiff was the only studio with a free slot.   (Have mentioned this before on the forum).  

It all seemed to be decided rather hastily considering the info. had been around for some time imo.
The Crimewatch studios are in Cardiff.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Truthmustout on 23.10.13 21:25

Apparently now the PJ has requestet the Public Ministry for an reopening of the case an awaits a decision. Saying abduction is their strongest lead.
 
If they get it reopened how will that effect the case between Mccann and Amaral?
 
http://cmtv.sapo.pt/atualidade/detalhe/pj-pode-reabrir-caso-maddie.html
 
 
 
Truthmustout has now opened a thread on the above......so please post answers to this ^^^^ on that.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 21:27

@Rufus T wrote:
@plebgate wrote:What I don't understand is why, if the efit pics had been lying around in the Pis files for 5 years, the release of them was timed for now.

 It has been reported that the CW Appeal had been in the making for approx 6 months, well not having seen it but having read the posts on here about it, how would that take six months to make?

The other thing is why did they choose the Cardiff BBC to broadcast it.   Was it because it was decided to broadcast it at short notice and Cardiff was the only studio with a free slot.   (Have mentioned this before on the forum).  

It all seemed to be decided rather hastily considering the info. had been around for some time imo.
The Crimewatch studios are in Cardiff.
Thank you Rufus - my point was why not use the London studios or even an English studio somewhere.   They are all English people and yet they travel to Cardiff a couple of hundred miles away.   I posted it already, but just wondering again.  

I'm a wonderer, a wonderer, a wonderer.smilie

Sorry Rufus just re-read your post, hadn't realised the crimewatch studio was transmitted from Cardiff every week/episode.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 21:32

@plebgate wrote:
I'm a wonderer, a wonderer, a wonderer.smilie

Does the second verse go something like  'what goes around, around, around'...? big grin

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 21:35

I know there's a song called I'm a wanderer but don't know the rest of it UT.  lol.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Pyewacket on 23.10.13 22:20

Hi, Yes, I think the song was recorded by Del Shannon, and the chorus goes:

I'm a wanderer, yes  I'm a wanderer, and I go round and round and round and round and round.

A bit like being on here sometimes LOL

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 22:30

Thanks Pyewacket, I knew I had heard of the song.

As you say, would make a good theme tune for this site.smilie

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 23:12

@Pyewacket wrote:Hi, Yes, I think the song was recorded by Del Shannon, and the chorus goes:

I'm a wanderer, yes  I'm a wanderer, and I go round and round and round and round and round.

A bit like being on here sometimes LOL
It's 'around, around, around, around' much like karma big grin

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Guest on 24.10.13 0:31

Dion:

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by plebgate on 24.10.13 0:57

Thanks Chatelaine.  Very catchy little tune that.



He's a wanderer, he's a wanderer, he wanders around around and around - just like someone in PdL.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 24.10.13 1:39

big grin What are you like! Don't you know they never wander, they only ever run or cycle - it's what lycra's for yes

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by lj on 24.10.13 2:31

@ultimaThule wrote:I agree there has been a lot of planning but the way I'm reading it is that SY's Operation Grange is coming to the end of a long hard slog to gather sufficient evidence to support criminal charges either in the UK or in Portugal, otherwise there would have been no point in representatives of the usually parsimonious CPS travelling to Lisbon. 

All the signs and portents indicate there will be 'developments' in the near future and, despite having had some doubt  during the days immediately before CW, I'm going to keep faith in Andy Redwood for a while longer. 

As for the timing, all I can say is I don't believe it's accidental winkwink
if the timing is not accidental, it means that SY has itself used to meddle in a foreign judicial process again.

That does not create faith for me.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Mike on 24.10.13 7:56

What will happen to the libel trial if the official investigation is reopened?

I do hope this isn't happening to stop the libel trial.

I hope they're not going to just focus on the abduction then close the case again.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 24.10.13 10:32

@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:I agree there has been a lot of planning but the way I'm reading it is that SY's Operation Grange is coming to the end of a long hard slog to gather sufficient evidence to support criminal charges either in the UK or in Portugal, otherwise there would have been no point in representatives of the usually parsimonious CPS travelling to Lisbon. 

All the signs and portents indicate there will be 'developments' in the near future and, despite having had some doubt  during the days immediately before CW, I'm going to keep faith in Andy Redwood for a while longer. 

As for the timing, all I can say is I don't believe it's accidental winkwink
if the timing is not accidental, it means that SY has itself used to meddle in a foreign judicial process again.

That does not create faith for me.
I understand your lack of faith, lj, but I don't believe it can be said that SY have at any time meddled in Portugal's judicial process, nor do they have the power to do so.

The Treaty of Windsor is the world's oldest alliance between 2 nations; and although it may not be seen to be the case on the ground, so to speak, I see no reason to believe the disappearance of a British child while on holiday in Praia de Luz  has adversely affected the high regard Portugal and the UK hold for each other at the highest government levels. 

As you know, the media constantly seek to increase their circulation and viewing statistics in order to create revenue from advertising.  The more sensational and emotive the story, the greater the sales of newspapers and the percentages of viewers tuning in to watch programmes on the subject and a tale such as that of little Madeleine McCann's disappearance was, and continues to be, a sure fire winner.    

Putting aside the media storm which has followed this case throughout, it's clear that in September 2007 the PJ, having undertaken one of the most impressive and thorough investigations in the history of policing,  had only accumulated sufficient evidence to identify the McCanns as persons of interest and, despite having been made arguidos, they were allowed to leave Portugal shortly after their formal interviews had taken place.

With hindsight it may appear that this decision, which was undoubtedly made in top level consultation between Portugal and the UK, was wrong but, regardless of whether the McCanns were convicted or acquitted, had the PJ proceeded against two British nationals, both doctors with all this title implies, such was the perceived strength of feeling whipped up by the media at that time the resultant fallout may have caused long lasting harm to relations between the two countries.

Many in the public eye have learned to their cost that attempting to manipulate the media is akin to grabbing a tiger by the tail.  The £millions generated by way of donations made to their 'fund' have given the McCanns the means to employ high end specialist lawyers and dubious spin merchants in order to ride the tiger and use it to deflect attention from their obvious culpability in the matter of their daughter's disappearance.

Recent actions - or  'diligences' smilie, taken by SY give rise to optimism that the tiger is in the process of unseating its riders and the stain they have cast on the good name and reputation of the Portuguese police and judiciary will soon be erased, even though their actions are unlikely to be so easily forgotten.

As Dr Amaral has said, sometimes the bad guys win and sometimes the police win and I have no doubt that both the PJ and SY are determined to win justice for Madeleine McCann, albeit the poor child is unlikely to benefit in this life from those who perpetrated such a heinous crime against her being brought to account.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 24.10.13 10:45

chris wrote:What will happen to the libel trial if the official investigation is reopened?

I do hope this isn't happening to stop the libel trial.

I hope they're not going to just focus on the abduction then close the case again.
The libel trial is a civil process which is entirely separate from, and unaffected by, any criminal investigation(s) on the part of the PJ or SY.

As such, the trial can only be halted by either side withdrawing or on the specific direction of the judge which can, of course, be appealed should either party believe it to be unlawful or unjust. 

Unless new evidence comes to light which can be submitted to the Court by either party to substantiate their plaint or defence, as applicable,  there's no reason to suppose the trial won't continue proceed in the customary manner until such time as the judge pronounces her verdict.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by lj on 24.10.13 16:11

Ultima, did I read your posts right that you too believe that the timing of the current media blitzkrieg is no accident? Then that is meddling in the judicial process of another country. For months now they have been taunting Portugal with messaging about their failures. Suggesting that it's all up to the Portuguese to make it possible for SY to solve the case (only to come up with absolutely nothing new). There are many forms of meddling and not all involve one PM talking to the other PM.

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by pennylane on 24.10.13 16:23

@lj wrote:Ultima, did I read your posts right that you too believe that the timing of the current media blitzkrieg is no accident? Then that is meddling in the judicial process of another country. For months now they have been taunting Portugal with messaging about their failures. Suggesting that it's all up to the Portuguese to make it possible for SY to solve the case (only to come up with absolutely nothing new). There are many forms of meddling and not all involve one PM talking to the other PM.
and what the hell was that sudden PR, cosying-up to the PJ piece, from Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe yesterday all about, re the initial investigation? After six plus years, and a shed load of xenophobia in the UK media, are you kidding me!

Something's wrong, something's definitely wrong!wow

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Guest on 24.10.13 18:23

"riding the tiger" is such a wonderful metaphor in this case, ultimaThule ...

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 24.10.13 19:02

@lj wrote:Ultima, did I read your posts right that you too believe that the timing of the current media blitzkrieg is no accident? Then that is meddling in the judicial process of another country. For months now they have been taunting Portugal with messaging about their failures. Suggesting that it's all up to the Portuguese to make it possible for SY to solve the case (only to come up with absolutely nothing new). There are many forms of meddling and not all involve one PM talking to the other PM.
I believe that the timing of the various Crimewatch editions recently aired in countries other than Portugal and the information which has been given to the press by the PJ and SY is no accident. 

Contrary to what may be alleged, suggested, or otherwise hinted by the media, I also believe there has been NO 'meddling in the judicial process of another country' by any authority either in Portugal or in the UK. 

Behind the 'current media blitzkrieg' is another tale which I am minded to think is the story of the police forces of two nations, who have been in alliance since c1876, working in close co-operation with each other to achieve their common aim of solving the mystery of the disappearance of Madeline McCann. 

If I chose to believe everything I read in newspapers, I'd be allowing myself to led by the nose from pillar to post in a fog of confusion and I have no intention of allowing my personal integrity to be compromised by the likes of Mr Murdoch, Mr Desmond and others of their ilk big grin

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Guest on 24.10.13 20:26

@ultimaThule wrote: [...]
Behind the 'current media blitzkrieg' is another tale which I am minded to think is the story of the police forces of two nations, who have been in alliance since c1876, working in close co-operation with each other to achieve their common aim of solving the mystery of the disappearance of Madeline McCann. 
[...]
***
Amen.
Though, not necessarily going back to alliances back to "then", but just the alliance of educated people, who've chosen as their profession a job to fleece out criminals and do justice to victims.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by lj on 25.10.13 3:09

@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:Ultima, did I read your posts right that you too believe that the timing of the current media blitzkrieg is no accident? Then that is meddling in the judicial process of another country. For months now they have been taunting Portugal with messaging about their failures. Suggesting that it's all up to the Portuguese to make it possible for SY to solve the case (only to come up with absolutely nothing new). There are many forms of meddling and not all involve one PM talking to the other PM.
I believe that the timing of the various Crimewatch editions recently aired in countries other than Portugal and the information which has been given to the press by the PJ and SY is no accident. 

Contrary to what may be alleged, suggested, or otherwise hinted by the media, I also believe there has been NO 'meddling in the judicial process of another country' by any authority either in Portugal or in the UK. 

Behind the 'current media blitzkrieg' is another tale which I am minded to think is the story of the police forces of two nations, who have been in alliance since c1876, working in close co-operation with each other to achieve their common aim of solving the mystery of the disappearance of Madeline McCann. 

If I chose to believe everything I read in newspapers, I'd be allowing myself to led by the nose from pillar to post in a fog of confusion and I have no intention of allowing my personal integrity to be compromised by the likes of Mr Murdoch, Mr Desmond and others of their ilk big grin
Good for you that you are such an optimist. I am not, haven't been for a long time.

As far as the media go: I was not talking about listening to the "reporting", something I have not for years now. I was talking about things coming out of the horses mouth. That too, of course, is subject to the glass half full etc.
I'll believe in the good intentions if I see a sign of them. What has come out up until now does not give me much hope.
In the end we'll see whose nose hurts.

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Amaral's ace

Post by MissDaisy on 28.10.13 11:02

Amaral said he had an ace up his sleeve for the trial and I wonder if there is any chance that he knew the Oakley report was being suppressed by the McCanns, could that be the ace?

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by PeterMac on 28.10.13 11:18

@MissDaisy wrote:Amaral said he had an ace up his sleeve for the trial and I wonder if there is any chance that he knew the Oakley report was being suppressed by the McCanns, could that be the ace?
Some of us have provided him with several aces.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Praiaaa on 28.10.13 12:21

When does the libel trial recommence? I can imagine there will be a lot more interest in it in the UK now....

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by aquila on 28.10.13 12:30

@Praiaaa wrote:When does the libel trial recommence? I can imagine there will be a lot more interest in it in the UK now....
5th November I believe.

Kate McCann is doing a BBC Radio 4 broadcast on 4th November to support Missing People charity.

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