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Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

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Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by aquila on 15.10.13 16:44

Whilst the Crime Watch programme has been aired and everyone has an opinion and speculates on things, the media are splashing things on their front pages etc it's worth noting there is a libel trial in progress in Portugal. A libel trial brought about by the McCanns that is buried in this media fest.

I'm happy to wait to see what happens in a Portuguese court. There is no amount of hype to my mind that can influence the fair hearing and fair outcome of this.

Scotland Yard aren't going to make immediate arrests after a response from Crime Watch. These things take time. The libel trial in Portugal on the other hand does have a less than broad time limit.

This is the one to watch.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by worriedmum on 15.10.13 19:05

@aquila wrote:Whilst the Crime Watch programme has been aired and everyone has an opinion and speculates on things, the media are splashing things on their front pages etc it's worth noting there is a libel trial in progress in Portugal. A libel trial brought about by the McCanns that is buried in this media fest.

I'm happy to wait to see what happens in a Portuguese court. There is no amount of hype to my mind that can influence the fair hearing and fair outcome of this.

Scotland Yard aren't going to make immediate arrests after a response from Crime Watch. These things take time. The libel trial in Portugal on the other hand does have a less than broad time limit.

This is the one to watch.

Just my opinion.
Well said.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by tigger on 15.10.13 19:52

Yes! Let's not forget that the timing of this show had but one purpose: spin spin spin 

To focus on the crimewatch programme and forget about the libel trial. 
Imo the timing was fine-tuned to interfere with the second part of the court case -  GA's defence and witnesses. 

The libel trial is real -  the recent performance of SY/BBC/TM is NOT!

The real case is being played out in Lisbon.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by bobbin on 15.10.13 20:07

@tigger wrote:Yes! Let's not forget that the timing of this show had but one purpose: spin spin spin 

To focus on the crimewatch programme and forget about the libel trial. 
Imo the timing was fine-tuned to interfere with the second part of the court case -  GA's defence and witnesses. 

The libel trial is real -  the recent performance of SY/BBC/TM is NOT!

The real case is being played out in Lisbon.
That is so true, but every 'silver lining has its cloud'....whether by default or by design, it's an own goal for the McCs.
The enormous global publicity of the high profile SY investigation does deny the McCs their one argument, 'that Gonçalo Amaral's book damaged the search for Madeleine'. big grin 

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Praiaaa on 15.10.13 20:30

Particularly since it could now be argued that if there was an abduction no the 'search' was jeopardised from the outset by the TM insistence on the JT sighting, and burial (BK alleged lean-on etc) of the Smith sighting.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Sietah on 21.10.13 18:44

Can't we set up a fundraising for Amaral, so he can sue them back
shark                                    . .

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 18:51

@Sietah wrote:Can't we set up a fundraising for Amaral, so he can sue them back
shark                                    . .
There is a fund for him here: http://pjga.blogspot.com/2009/11/press-release-defence-fund.html

I also hope he sues them back.

There is also a fund for Tony: http://www.cold2012.org.uk/

I hope he sues them back too.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Sietah on 21.10.13 18:54

Wow, thank you, I go there immidiatly

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Pyewacket on 21.10.13 19:37

A lot of common sense on this thread. I agree that the only real thing going on is the Libel case in Lisbon. Operation Grange might get somewhere, sometime, but if the revelations and substantive evidence offered by the CW pantomime last week is anything to go by, their progress seems to be racing along at glacial speed. As many on here have already posted, the UK press is still enthralled by the abduction angle, which is a tad depressing. On the other hand, where comments have been allowed, there are plenty of people who clearly aren't buying it. IMO as with others all this has just been a spoiler to deflect attention away from Lisbon, and to reinforce the stuff about PJ incompetence etc.

I think the judge in Lisbon will dismiss the McCann's case, as I can't really see that GA actually has a case to answer. The McCann's case appears to be vexatious at best, and clearly not thought through. This is perhaps one reason why they wished (after giving it some consideration) to settle before the hearing. After all they now appear to have shot themselves in the foot, big time.

It will be interesting to see, just how much coverage the libel trial receives when it resumes next month, and then how much is given to it when the judge (hopefully) hands the result to Snr Amaral.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Sietah on 21.10.13 22:33

@admin wrote:
@Sietah wrote:Can't we set up a fundraising for Amaral, so he can sue them back
shark                                    . .
There is a fund for him here: http://pjga.blogspot.com/2009/11/press-release-defence-fund.html

I also hope he sues them back.

There is also a fund for Tony: http://www.cold2012.org.uk/

I hope he sues them back too.
I made 2 donations and it feels goood. Can recommand it to everybody. winkwink

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Implications of the CW programme for the libel trial

Post by PeterMac on 22.10.13 15:35

The McCanns are suing for libel, on the basis that the book caused the search for Madeleine to be disrupted / damaged / influenced / harmed / hindered . .

For how long have the McCanns had the e-fits ?
For how long did they know that Redwood was going to discount Tannerman ?
For how long have they permitted Tannerman to remain on their website ?
For how long have they know that the CW programme was going to turn the focus away from Tannerman and onto Smithman ?
How long were they prepared to leave Madeleine in her hellish lair for the sake of one minute of Television appearance for themselves ?

How can they even go back into court now that we know that the entire trial has been conducted WHILST THEY KNEW that Gonçalo Amaral's original suggestion was "correct" and their original and sustained insistence that Tannerman was the abductor, was completely false ?
On what date did they know the above ?
On what date did the trial start ?

Malicious prosecution, anyone ?

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Woofer on 22.10.13 15:38

PeterMac - I just hope GM and his lawyer have sussed that.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by sami on 22.10.13 15:43

What date did they ask to settle with Snr Amaral ?

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by tegan1973 on 22.10.13 17:52

When is the libel set to end?

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Guest on 22.10.13 18:55

@sami wrote:What date did they ask to settle with Snr Amaral ?
***
End of January, early February this year?

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Guest on 22.10.13 18:57

@tegan1973 wrote:When is the libel set to end?
***
IIRC next session November 5, 19 and 27. Afterwards judgement 30 days later.
So - before Christmas Mrs

ETA Oops that might early next year then ...

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Pyewacket on 22.10.13 22:31

My hope in this trial is that the judge is totally convinced of her own omnipotence in this affair, as British judges would be, and will base her verdict on the supremacy of Portuguese Law in Portugal over and above all others. That she will totally disregard the bleatings of the British press, and the piss poor presentations of the TM witnesses, and whatever diplomatic pressures are (possibly) being exerted and deliver her verdict accordingly. That she will base her decision solely on the evidence at hand, and not be swayed by antagonistic, external influences.

How the UK press report this, as I have mentioned before might be a totally different matter. But who knows, I sense that the tide is turning. It may be that this will not now be going all to TM's wishes

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by lj on 23.10.13 5:38

@tigger wrote:Yes! Let's not forget that the timing of this show had but one purpose: spin spin spin 

To focus on the crimewatch programme and forget about the libel trial. 
Imo the timing was fine-tuned to interfere with the second part of the court case -  GA's defence and witnesses. 

The libel trial is real -  the recent performance of SY/BBC/TM is NOT!

The real case is being played out in Lisbon.

Yes, yes.

You wonder what more convenient red herrings are being kept to launch when the Dr. Amaral trial gets even worse for the McCanns.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by lj on 23.10.13 5:43

@PeterMac wrote:The McCanns are suing for libel, on the basis that the book caused the search for Madeleine to be disrupted / damaged / influenced / harmed / hindered . .

For how long have the McCanns had the e-fits ?
For how long did they know that Redwood was going to discount Tannerman ?
For how long have they permitted Tannerman to remain on their website ?
For how long have they know that the CW programme was going to turn the focus away from Tannerman and onto Smithman ?
How long were they prepared to leave Madeleine in her hellish lair for the sake of one minute of Television appearance for themselves ?

How can they even go back into court now that we know that the entire trial has been conducted WHILST THEY KNEW that Gonçalo Amaral's original suggestion was "correct" and their original and sustained insistence that Tannerman was the abductor, was completely false ?
On what date did they know the above ?
On what date did the trial start ?

Malicious prosecution, anyone ?
Not only malicious prosecution. What would you call the role of Andy cq Scotland Yard in this? Without their cooperation this planning would not have been possible.

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 10:06

Nobody on this forum is going to forget the trial that's for sure.  

As for how the press will report it here in UK, I think maybe the Daily Express will find a way to let their readers know how things panned out (either way).

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 10:45

@lj wrote:Not only malicious prosecution. What would you call the role of Andy cq Scotland Yard in this? Without their cooperation this planning would not have been possible.
As thjs trial's been chundering along for a couple of years I'm curious as to why you should believe SY have co-operated with TM in this matter, lj?

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 11:40

What I don't understand is why, if the efit pics had been lying around in the Pis files for 5 years, the release of them was timed for now.

 It has been reported that the CW Appeal had been in the making for approx 6 months, well not having seen it but having read the posts on here about it, how would that take six months to make?

The other thing is why did they choose the Cardiff BBC to broadcast it.   Was it because it was decided to broadcast it at short notice and Cardiff was the only studio with a free slot.   (Have mentioned this before on the forum).  

It all seemed to be decided rather hastily considering the info. had been around for some time imo.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by lj on 23.10.13 14:46

@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:Not only malicious prosecution. What would you call the role of Andy cq Scotland Yard in this? Without their cooperation this planning would not have been possible.
As thjs trial's been chundering along for a couple of years I'm curious as to why you should believe SY have co-operated with TM in this matter, lj?
Hi UT.
The "facts" of the revelation media blitz from these past 2 weeks has been known for a while. It's not as if Andy Monday a week ago, while sitting down for the CW interview, realized that Tannerman could not be and Smithman was the important proof of abduction. So SY and the couple have been sitting on this for probably 3-4 months, together. There has been a lot of planning around this, the "reconstruction" the planning of the showing and the interviews. So why now? Are they thinking Madeleine could be home for Christmas?

The only reason to sit on this so long on this new fabricated information and release it now is the trial against. dr Amaral.

All just my opinion of course.

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by Seek truth on 23.10.13 15:10

@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:Not only malicious prosecution. What would you call the role of Andy cq Scotland Yard in this? Without their cooperation this planning would not have been possible.
As thjs trial's been chundering along for a couple of years I'm curious as to why you should believe SY have co-operated with TM in this matter, lj?
Hi UT.
The "facts" of the revelation media blitz from these past 2 weeks has been known for a while. It's not as if Andy Monday a week ago, while sitting down for the CW interview, realized that Tannerman could not be and Smithman was the important proof of abduction. So SY and the couple have been sitting on this for probably 3-4 months, together. There has been a lot of planning around this, the "reconstruction" the planning of the showing and the interviews. So why now? Are they thinking Madeleine could be home for Christmas?

The only reason to sit on this so long on this new fabricated information and release it now is the trial against. dr Amaral.

All just my opinion of course.
I am of your opinion.

Why did the case take all this time aswell, were they waiting for something? Perhaps for CW and now why the interval at the same time as CW

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Re: Don't forget the libel trial in Portugal

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 19:23

I agree there has been a lot of planning but the way I'm reading it is that SY's Operation Grange is coming to the end of a long hard slog to gather sufficient evidence to support criminal charges either in the UK or in Portugal, otherwise there would have been no point in representatives of the usually parsimonious CPS travelling to Lisbon. 

All the signs and portents indicate there will be 'developments' in the near future and, despite having had some doubt  during the days immediately before CW, I'm going to keep faith in Andy Redwood for a while longer. 

As for the timing, all I can say is I don't believe it's accidental winkwink

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