The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Innocent British Father

Page 4 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by HelenMeg on Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:41 pm

All opinions expressed in this post are only theories - In my view, Smithman was GM carrying JT's sedated daughter to elicit a witness for an abduction.

The man carrying the child across both arms outstretched  in front of him was GM carrying a dead child to a nearby house, seen by JT, who told the truth but already knew it was GM.
GM had been interrupted by JW and had to temporarily place the body in the flower beds.

HelenMeg

Posts : 1782
Reputation : 192
Join date : 2014-01-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by canada12 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:47 pm

@PeterMac wrote:
@tiny wrote:I think redwood got tanner out of a sticky situation,there was no crechman and no pj,s, imo,but why he did this I have no idea.
But my point is this.
By getting Tanner out of a "sticky situation", he has put the McCanns in an impossibly Sticky one, which they recognise by their refusal to accept what Redwood has told the world.
Why ?
Leaving Tannerman as unidentified would have been perfect for the Mccanns AND for SY if they wished simply to close the whole thing down.

I wonder how they'd handle that in court, if challenged?

Q: Why do you refuse to believe that the individual Scotland Yard has produced is not the same individual that your friend Jane Tanner witnessed on that night?
A: We believe Scotland Yard invented that individual
Q: Why would you believe that?
A: Err... because ...err.... we know what Jane saw. Even though we know Gerry didn't see Jane. And Jane didn't tell us what she saw for hours and hours as she didn't want to upset us. because they're trying to frame us! Just like the inept and evil Portuguese police!

In my opinion!

canada12

Posts : 1457
Reputation : 187
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:56 am


Why not just circulate the e-fits if that was the focus and don't mention Tannerman at all if that never not the focus ?
If they believe Tannerman does not exist, why say anything at all, why not say nothing?
Or, if necessary why not just say simply Tannerman had been eliminated without further elaboration.
So the question has to be - why the need to invent Crecheman just to get JT out of a sticky situation when less is more.




aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by joyce1938 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:11 am

I believe I have read that tannerman came forward years ago and said he carried his child . I think it maybe that was kept very quiet ,until the time it was needed  to be used.Jerry wilk. and gmac said they never saw jane walking near them on the night . It seems this will have some effect on some part of truth eventually ,not much of that has been easy to fit so far of other situations . joyce 1938

joyce1938

Posts : 805
Reputation : 86
Join date : 2010-04-20
Age : 77
Location : england

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by sami on Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:27 am

@aiyoyo wrote:
Why not just circulate the e-fits if that was the focus and don't mention Tannerman at all if that never not the focus ?
If they believe Tannerman does not exist, why say anything at all, why not say nothing?
Or, if necessary why not just say simply Tannerman had been eliminated without further elaboration.
So the question has to be - why the need to invent Crecheman just to get JT out of a sticky situation when less is more.





Yes, I find the strangest aspect of all was the need to "show" us the man.  In any police investigation it is surely acceptable for SY to make a statement to confirm they have traced Mr X and following interviews they are now happy to rule him out.  

The charade of showing the public photographs of an un-identifiable man and a pair of pyjamas invites questions and ridicule from the public.  It just comes across as unprofessional and rather childish.

sami

Posts : 962
Reputation : 48
Join date : 2012-04-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:41 am

I couldn't agree more Sami.

It's a good thing that Andy Redwood is such an expert at keeping a straight face no matter how ridiculous the things he says.

As has been said before, it's also very strange that the tabloids haven't been falling over themselves to get an exclusive interview with the dear old dad who unwittingly caused so much confusion.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Mirage on Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:44 am

Catching up on posts re Tannerman, each one I read I think, ooh yes that could be an explanation! - only to end up at square one again.

One thing I am sure of: that night of the Mockumentary recon something snapped in JT. You could see it in her eyes and the way she looked at GM in disbelief. It was so obvious he was dismissing her claim as part of some cunning strategy to save his own skin. I believe she realised he had just landed her in a very invidious situation indeed and she began crying. Meanwhile, GM was intent on consolidating his story by physically demonstrating how he had been looking up at a wall (as JW was over six feet) and how he turned to the right to take his leave after their conversation, He was making certain there was NO possibility - recorded for the benefit of cameras - that he could physically have seen JT or Tannerman. There are too many variables for why he did this for me to settle on one, but the riddle and part of its answer lie in that put down of JT I feel sure.

I have no idea what has happened since regarding that denied testimony of hers - denied now by both the MET and GM, let us not forget - because there are liars of different hues involved. Nor do I not know what Redwood might have spun from this situation, and to what purpose, because I no longer trust in the MET to tell the truth either.

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

Mirage

Posts : 1665
Reputation : 382
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Woofer on Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:57 am

Was it a surprise to K & G when Crecheman was put forward on Crimewatch ?

And if so, do we not think that GM would immediately be pestering Andy for details of Crecheman ?  Andy can hardly say no and if he did say no, wouldn`t GM create even more of a hoo-ha.  GM would want to contact the man himself and quizz him.

Woofer

Posts : 3390
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-02-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:10 am

@joyce1938 wrote:I believe I have read that tannerman came forward years ago and said he carried his child . I think it maybe that was kept very quiet ,until the time it was needed  to be used.Jerry wilk. and gmac said they never saw jane walking near them on the night . It seems this will have some effect on some part of truth eventually ,not much of that has been easy to fit so far of other situations . joyce 1938

IF he was eliminated years back why not just say that?
Why the need to mention the 6-year old clothes he brought along?
Was it for the father to convince the Police, or was it for Police to convince the public Tannerman was Crecheman?
Why would Police need to convince the public of that aspect of the matter (which is trivial)  in the first place?

Either he was eliminated or he was not eliminated in the great scheme of things. And, if there's a need to announce that for whatever reason, the when where how is not relevant for the public to know.

The burning question has to be : What is the real purpose for that announcement, and for who in particular that absolutely needs to know?

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:35 am

@sami wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
Why not just circulate the e-fits if that was the focus and don't mention Tannerman at all if that never not the focus ?
If they believe Tannerman does not exist, why say anything at all, why not say nothing?
Or, if necessary why not just say simply Tannerman had been eliminated without further elaboration.
So the question has to be - why the need to invent Crecheman just to get JT out of a sticky situation when less is more.





Yes, I find the strangest aspect of all was the need to "show" us the man.  In any police investigation it is surely acceptable for SY to make a statement to confirm they have traced Mr X and following interviews they are now happy to rule him out.  

The charade of showing the public photographs of an un-identifiable man and a pair of pyjamas invites questions and ridicule from the public.  It just comes across as unprofessional and rather childish.

Yes, I find it rather ODD that MET saw fit to give us detail of something so trivial that serves no interest for public to know.
If that was a ploy mean to fool certain people there's no explainable reason why they need to give elaborate detail.
You would think Police keep their tricks up their sleeves and not reveal them to suspects.

Irrespective whether Tannerman exists or not, whether Grange believe he exists or not, or whether crecheman and his accessories exists or not, if the purpose of the Police is to show he's not their focus, then saying he is ruled out would suffice and that would be normal.

Even say if the idea is to get JT out of the sticky situation, why though is there a need for that (get her out of a situation I mean)?
Again, why the need to give detail when saying X is ruled out would suffice for this purpose.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by sami on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:40 am

How credible is it that the night records were not checked by the PJ as part of the original investigation ?  Were these really over looked ?

Redwood almost gave the impression that the night crèche was a big discovery on their part.  We all knew about  it.  Did the man come forward seven years ago to the PJ ?

Every investigation will have oversights and errors, usually only seen with the benefit of hindsight.  Reading the PJ files, to be fair, you are rarely, if ever, left with a feeling they overlooked something so fundamental to that night.  

This piece of information was handled so stangely - remember the trailers advertising the programme in advance, the big build up, the promise of the revelation ? Why ?

sami

Posts : 962
Reputation : 48
Join date : 2012-04-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:58 am

@PeterMac wrote:
@tiny wrote:I think redwood got tanner out of a sticky situation,there was no crechman and no pj,s, imo,but why he did this I have no idea.
But my point is this.
By getting Tanner out of a "sticky situation", he has put the McCanns in an impossibly Sticky one, which they recognise by their refusal to accept what Redwood has told the world.
Why ?
Leaving Tannerman as unidentified would have been perfect for the Mccanns AND for SY if they wished simply to close the whole thing down.

Therefore the possibility that the wish is not to close the whole thing, and eliminating Tannerman is indicative they're not looking at abduction.
That does not explain why Redwood came up with a Crecheman when it suffice just to say the man came forward and was ruled out.
We are in the dark as to what Redwood revelational moment was since it was not stated explicitly but implied.




aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:09 pm

@Woofer wrote:Was it a surprise to K & G when Crecheman was put forward on Crimewatch ?

And if so, do we not think that GM would immediately be pestering Andy for details of Crecheman ?  Andy can hardly say no and if he did say no, wouldn`t GM create even more of a hoo-ha.  GM would want to contact the man himself and quizz him.

No one can realistically hope to ask, let alone pester, Police for anything without being told to F.O. if oversteps the marks.
Police are not obliged to give out operational details
What might happen is, if the case goes to trial, the Mccanns lawyer might want details of this innocent man because the imaginary character of JT is crucial to their abduction thesis.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Woofer on Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:05 pm

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Was it a surprise to K & G when Crecheman was put forward on Crimewatch ?

And if so, do we not think that GM would immediately be pestering Andy for details of Crecheman ?  Andy can hardly say no and if he did say no, wouldn`t GM create even more of a hoo-ha.  GM would want to contact the man himself and quizz him.

No one can realistically hope to ask, let alone pester, Police for anything without being told to F.O. if oversteps the marks.
Police are not obliged to give out operational details
What might happen is, if the case goes to trial, the Mccanns lawyer might want details of this innocent man because the imaginary character of JT is crucial to their abduction thesis.  

Yes, one would hope that to be the case  ......  but aren`t SY supposed to be keeping the McCanns posted throughout this investigation - well, that`s what the McCanns would have us believe.  AR has also intimated so.   I can imagine the McCann`s believing that SY are carrying out the investigation for THEM ... as it is THEIR daughter that is missing; that David Cameron is carrying out THEIR wishes and that they should therefore be kept informed of every move.   If they are not, I can well believe that the McCanns would become suspicious of Andy Redwood and his team and become paranoid that things are not going along the path they wish.  If they haven`t been told who Crecheman is, they must be climbing the walls with paranoia.

Woofer

Posts : 3390
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-02-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by canada12 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:22 pm

I think, obviously, Crecheman was surprise to them, going by Kate's complete look of fear when the camera cut to her in an unrehearsed live moment during CW, and also judging by their current assertion on their website that Tannerman and Crecheman must be two different people. If they'd known about that in advance, it wouldn't have taken such a long time for the "new" appeal to help find Tannerman to appear on their website. It would have been ready to go and up there straight after the show.

But as for Kate and Gerry wanting to find out who Crecheman is and talk to him... I don't think they dare employ the same tactics they (IMO) employed years ago when they (IMO) sent their emissaries and legal people around to "lean on" certain individuals who didn't quite fit their version of events.

They wouldn't dare, because they have to know that Crecheman will have been briefed by AR, and if they so much as invited him to tea, it would be reported straight back to SY. I suspect also their phones and other communications are being monitored even more closely now than Kate and Gerry suspected they were in 2007-2008. I wonder if there have been any more of those high-level top secret meetings in local hotel conference rooms in the meantime.

canada12

Posts : 1457
Reputation : 187
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by ultimaThule on Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:11 pm

I suspect also their phones and other communications are being monitored even more closely now than Kate and Gerry suspected they were in 2007-2008. I suspect they are and have been monitored for some considerable time, canada12. I also suspect there was good reason for the CW programme to be broadcast live from Cardiff rather than London.   

The McCanns used the wardship proceedings in an attempt to prise some 11,000 documents out of Leicestershire police.  They had to settle for c81 and I very much doubt the returned questionnaires Leics police sent to those MW holidaymakers the PJ were unable to interview were among them, otherwise AR may not have been able to so emphatiically eliminate Tannerman from SY's investigation abeit this fact does not appear to have been conveyed to the lifestyle fund's webmaster. 

ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-09-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:41 pm


The Mccanns & friends records too would undoubtedly come under close scrutiny, as is logical.







aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by canada12 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:10 pm

@ultimaThule wrote:I suspect also their phones and other communications are being monitored even more closely now than Kate and Gerry suspected they were in 2007-2008. I suspect they are and have been monitored for some considerable time, canada12. I also suspect there was good reason for the CW programme to be broadcast live from Cardiff rather than London.   

The McCanns used the wardship proceedings in an attempt to prise some 11,000 documents out of Leicestershire police.  They had to settle for c81 and I very much doubt the returned questionnaires Leics police sent to those MW holidaymakers the PJ were unable to interview were among them, otherwise AR may not have been able to so emphatiically eliminate Tannerman from SY's investigation abeit this fact does not appear to have been conveyed to the lifestyle fund's webmaster. 

IIRC the only documents they were allowed were the ones relating to people who had initially contacted the McCanns through their hotline, and who the McCanns had then referred on to the police. I think this likely excluded any that had bypassed the McCann hotline and gone straight to the police, or those that had the police had contacted directly. It amazes me that they were even allowed those documents. But who knows whether they were given complete dossiers, or only collections of documents that they knew about anyway.

canada12

Posts : 1457
Reputation : 187
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by marconi on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:53 pm

But where is Madeleine's pink blanket? It was on the bed, but seems to have disappeared with her.[/quote]
============================================================================================================================
Not with her but after she disappeared,  The police took pictures of it on her bed, that same night and it vanished later on.






marconi

Posts : 1082
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by ultimaThule on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:59 pm

It appears that some members of the public chose to bypass the McCanns' lukewarm 'hot'line and made contact with their solicitors, the somewhat grandiosely titled 'International Family Law Group' which, in common with a number of other new business ventures, came into being on the back of Madeleine's disappearance, canada12.

For reasons which are entirely beyond me but were no doubt in accordance with their clients' instructions, IFLG did not make notes of any conversations the firm engaged in with these callers and, as was told to Mrs Justice Hogg, simply passed their names and contact details on to Leicestershire police.

In effect, the 'documents' or information Leics police agreed to hand over to the McCanns consisted of that which should have already have been known to them if the newly formed group of ambulance chasing solicitors they appointed to act in the wardship proceedings had done their job thoroughly.  

The Mccanns & friends records too would undoubtedly come under close scrutiny, as is logical. NSY's remit is to 'investigate the abduction as if it occurred in the UK' and, as the reported abduction occured some 7 years ago with no credible sighting of the child during that time, I have no doubt that the letters MIT visible on the door of AR's team indicate that he is heading a murder investigation in the course of which the McCanns and the Tapas 7, together with any of their known associates who are deemed to be of interest, will be subject to intense scrutiny, aiyoyo.


In short these individuals can expect every aspect of their lives, both before and after the event and up to the present day, to be gone through with a fine tooth comb and, to coin a phrase, no stone will be left unturned in pursuit of the perpetrators of this most heinous of crimes.


The pink blanket doesn't have a part to play in this thread, marconi, but no doubt it is of interest to both NSY and the PJ.  


ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-09-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by marconi on Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:04 am

@tiny wrote:I think redwood got tanner out of a sticky situation,there was no crechman and no pj,s, imo,but why he did this I have no idea.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tiny, my theory is that Tanner told the truth to the Yard, asking them to clean up her name.  That was the moment when the creche man was born.

marconi

Posts : 1082
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:07 am

@marconi wrote:
@tiny wrote:I think redwood got tanner out of a sticky situation,there was no crechman and no pj,s, imo,but why he did this I have no idea.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tiny, my theory is that Tanner told the truth to the Yard, asking them to clean up her name.  That was the moment when the creche man was born.

There we go again, same old ....same old tripe......

So according to you she told the truth to the Yard and they're still waiting taxpayers money chasing burglars   ......bloody marvellous don't you think ....that a bunch of top cops are still trying to crack the mystery despite given the opportunity to crack JT ?

So JT approaches Grange, told them she invented the man, that they should take him out of the equation, and also that they should clear her name by making a public announcement about the elimination, and they did just that - "did as they are told" eh?
They didn't question her why she lied (perverting the course of justice, a punishable crime ) they didn't ask her what happened to Madeleine, what she knows about it, what happened that night or when it happened, or why she covered up for her friends (another serious crime punishable by law) in the mockumentary, no nothing eh?  They asked her nothing? Don't they want to solve the crime ?

This is despite her & friends having sued the press and got compensated handsomely for it.  All this while she deceived the world and then suddenly out of the blue she decides to tell Yard elite cops she lied in exchange for clearing her name.  They complied to her wish by coming up with an elaborated story - man and ageing-clothes complete with a pic of the man -  and did nothing else, and there's with no consequences for her or her friends?  

Do you think your theory makes sense ?
Give us an idea how you think your theory can apply in the real world? I'm sure people would be interested to hear how you arrived at the theory and how it works.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Angelique on Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:49 am

http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Crecheman_Can_Talk.html

Not sure this is the correct thread to place this - Admin please move if wrong.

This article has posed a very interesting angle. Did/does Andy not realise that if Crecheman is just a ploy that he may have actually "joined" with TM spin machine?

This Crecheman may at some point have to be produced, speak, confirm etc.

Can a witness be conjured up by investigating Police and not actually produce said witness. Will the investigating Portuguese request information on him - an ILOR?

____________________
Things aren't always what they seem

Angelique

Posts : 1396
Reputation : 35
Join date : 2010-10-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Doug D on Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:43 am


Doug D

Posts : 2146
Reputation : 635
Join date : 2013-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Innocent British Father

Post by bodiddly on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:21 pm

Maybe I am odd but I have never carried a child in that fashion and I have never seen anyone else other than a rescue worker, carry a child like that. Therefore I find it very odd that an apparent father, would carry a healthy sleeping child in this manner.
Maybe JT's (fictional version) was of her last memory of MM being carried by a "rescue person" ie someone within the group who tried to help MM.

____________________
A lie cannot live...Martin Luther King, Jr.

bodiddly

Posts : 77
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum