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Innocent British Father

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Praiaaa on 15.10.13 20:38

My inexpert opinion is that JT came clean after years of sleepless nights, and SY are saving her face as a quid pro quo. If there really had been an innocent father of course he would have come forward, or been eliminated using creche records, and been exonerated (and would never in any case carry a living child in that way). IMO JT has cracked. IMO the Paynes have also cracked, hence their anonymity in the scenes last night.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Seek truth on 15.10.13 20:38

@Daisy wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
According to Daily Mail article today, he did use a (pink) blanket. There's pictures of it alongside the childs PJ's he kept all this years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460669/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapping-innocent-British-father-mistaken-key-suspect.html
THE pink blanket, the very same pink, that is also in the crime watch video on the bed.
Sorry I meant, what I find very similar is the girls pyjamas, just as discribed by Tanner. What a match hey, this innocent man is the exact one she mentioned! After 6 years aswell luckily he still had them! So she was two yrs old? They look a bigger size.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by tasprin on 15.10.13 20:41

@Daisy wrote:
@tasprin wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
According to Daily Mail article today, he did use a (pink) blanket. There's pictures of it alongside the childs PJ's he kept all this years.

Not sure how to put the image up but here's the link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460669/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapping-innocent-British-father-mistaken-key-suspect.html
But where is Madeleine's pink blanket? It was on the bed, but seems to have disappeared with her.
Good question Tasprin. Although the pink blanket apparently disappeared after Madeleine

Just noticed this very interesting thread here.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2115-could-the-pink-blanket-help-to-re-open-the-case
Thanks, Daisy. I haven't read that thread but will do so, looks interesting.

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How could Crecheman ignore the pandemonium in PdL?

Post by JackieL on 15.10.13 20:43

How did Crecheman miss all this?

From Bridget O'Donnell (Jez Wilkins'partner), talking about immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance:


Bridget O'Donnell wrote:The next morning, we made our way to breakfast and met one of the Doctors, the one who had come round in the night. His young daughter looked up at us from her pushchair. There was no news. They had called Sky television - they didn't know what else to do. He turned away and I could see he was going to weep.


People were crying in the restaurant. Mark Warner had handed out letters informing them what had happened in the night, and we all wondered what to do. Mid-sentence, we would drift in to the middle distance. Tears would brim up and recede.


Our daughter asked us about the kiddie club that day. She had been looking forward to their dance show that afternoon. Jes and I looked at each other. My first instinct was that we should not be parted from our children. Of course we shouldn't; we should strap them to us and not let them out of our sight, ever again. But then we thought: how are we going to explain this to our daughter? Or how, if we spent the day in the village, would we avoid repeatedly discussing what had happened in front of her as we met people on the streets? What does a good parent do? Keep the children close or take a deep breath and let them go a little, pretend this was the same as any other day?


We walked towards the kiddie club. No one else was there. We felt awful, such terrible parents for even considering the idea. Then we saw, waiting inside, some of the Mark Warner nannies. They had been up most of the night but had still turned up to work that day. They were intelligent, thoughtful young women and we liked and trusted them. The dance show was cancelled, but they wanted to put on a normal day for the children. Our daughter ran inside and started painting. Then, behind us, another set of parents arrived looking equally washed out. Then another, and another. We decided, in the end, to leave them for two hours. We put their bags on the pegs and saw the one labelled "Madeleine". Heads bent, we walked away, into the guilty glare of the morning sun.


Locals and holidaymakers had started circulating photocopied pictures of Madeleine, while others continued searching the beaches and village apartments. People were talking about what had happened or sat silently, staring blankly. We didn't see any police.
Later, there was a knock on our apartment door and we let the two men in. One was a uniformed Portuguese policeman, the other his translator. The translator had a squint and sweated slightly. He was breathless, perhaps a little excited. We later found out he was Robert Murat. He reminded me of a boy in my class at school who was bullied.
Through Murat we answered a few questions and gave our details, which the policeman wrote down on the back of a bit of paper. No notebook. Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. "Is this your daughter?" he asked. "Er, no," we said. "That's the girl you are meant to be searching for." My heart sank for the McCanns.
As the day drew on, the media and more police arrived and we watched from our balcony as reporters practised their pieces to camera outside the McCanns' apartment. We then went back inside and watched them on the news.
We had to duck under the police tape with the pushchair to buy a pint of milk. We would roll past sniffer dogs, local police, then national police, local journalists, and then international journalists, TV reporters and satellite vans. A hundred pairs of eyes and a dozen cameras silently swivelled as we turned down the bend. We pretended, for the children's sake, that this was nothing unusual. Later on, our daughter saw herself with Daddy on TV. That afternoon we sat by the members-only pool, watching the helicopters watching us. We didn't know what else to do.
Saturday came, our last day. While we waited for the airport coach to pick us up, we gathered round the toddler pool by Tapas, making small talk in front of the children. I watched my baby son and daughter closely, shamefully grateful that I could.
We had not seen the McCanns since Thursday, when suddenly they appeared by the pool. The surreal limbo of the past two days suddenly snapped back into painful, awful realtime. It was a shock: the physical transformation of these two human beings was sickening - I felt it as a physical blow. Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream. I thought I might cry and turned so that she wouldn't see. Gerry was upright, his lips now drawn into a thin, impenetrable line. Some people, including Jes, tried to offer comfort. Some gave them hugs. Some stared at their feet, words eluding them. We all wondered what to do. That was the last time we saw Gerry and Kate.
The rest of us left Praia da Luz together, an isolated Mark Warner group. The coach, the airport, the plane passed quietly. There were no other passengers except us. We arrived at Gatwick in the small hours of an early May morning. No jokes, no banter, just goodbye. Though we did not know it then, those few days in May were going to dominate the rest of our year.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Daisy on 15.10.13 20:50

@Seek truth wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
According to Daily Mail article today, he did use a (pink) blanket. There's pictures of it alongside the childs PJ's he kept all this years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460669/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapping-innocent-British-father-mistaken-key-suspect.html
THE pink blanket, the very same pink, that is also in the crime watch video on the bed.

Have a look.
I know about the blanket on the bed i've mentioned that earlier. Although we don't know it's the very same blanket do we? According to reports Madeleine's blanket went missing afterwards. (After the she disappeared).

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Guest on 15.10.13 20:53

@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
Also remarkable: Jane in all her initial statements to the PK, from May 4 onwards, stressed that she noticed the man because he was moving at such a high speed;

She even describes his footwear as being suited for speed walking- so no flip-flops presumably

She noticed something very strange: a man almost running with a child, in an untenable position, in which no one ever carries a living child;

AWAY FROM THE NIGHT CRECHE

That's what she witnessed, and signed as a witness, and stood by under interrogation

For six whole years

Till yesterday (says AR/SY, not she herself, mind you)

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Praiaaa on 15.10.13 20:54

What utter drivel! (B O'C I mean). Like a sixth former on a creative writing course. And her comment about 'A boy who had been bullied' speaks volumes about her...grrrrr

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Guest on 15.10.13 20:56

@tasprin wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
According to Daily Mail article today, he did use a (pink) blanket. There's pictures of it alongside the childs PJ's he kept all this years.

Not sure how to put the image up but here's the link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460669/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapping-innocent-British-father-mistaken-key-suspect.html
But where is Madeleine's pink blanket? It was on the bed, but seems to have disappeared with her.
and with KHs engagement ring

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Guest on 15.10.13 20:58

@Praiaaa wrote:My inexpert opinion is that JT came clean after years of sleepless nights, and SY are saving her face as a quid pro quo. If there really had been an innocent father of course he would have come forward, or been eliminated using creche records, and been exonerated (and would never in any case carry a living child in that way). IMO JT has cracked. IMO the Paynes have also cracked, hence their anonymity in the scenes last night.
goodpost

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Daisy on 15.10.13 20:59

@Portia wrote:
@tasprin wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
According to Daily Mail article today, he did use a (pink) blanket. There's pictures of it alongside the childs PJ's he kept all this years.

Not sure how to put the image up but here's the link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460669/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapping-innocent-British-father-mistaken-key-suspect.html
But where is Madeleine's pink blanket? It was on the bed, but seems to have disappeared with her.
and with KHs engagement ring
And a blue sportsbag

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“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by JackieL on 15.10.13 21:03

@Praiaaa wrote:What utter drivel! (B O'C I mean). Like a sixth former on a creative writing course. And her comment about 'A boy who had been bullied' speaks volumes about her...grrrrr
I know - I'd forgotten how bitchy she was.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Woofer on 15.10.13 21:06

@ultimaThule wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Does anyone know where the babysitting place was? Was it at one of the 3 crèches.  Surely they would only use one at night as there couldn't have been too many around at that time of year.   Everyone said if was very quiet.  Bridget O'Donnell and Jez Wilkins used it the night before, when Jez carried his sleeping 3 year old home.
In May 2007 the evening creche was situated in the reception block which facilitates entry to the pool and tapas bar whistling
Are you sure about that ultimaThule?  Because if you look at the map shown on CW (at about 17.40 mins) it was a long way away.  I can`t do screen shots - can anyone get a shot of that map?

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by russiandoll on 15.10.13 21:08

I just saw a re run of the Tanner sighting on a very good 30 min programme about last nights CW and investigation... on Sky, CF has started a thread on it.

 Notwithstanding her mistake, she still described pj bottoms.

 which she could not have seen because crèche man was seen from 2 angles, rear and side..
 in both he had the child's legs over his left arm

 as JT walked up the street, his right side was facing her. and you clearly saw her head on the mans right arm.


 oops

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by ultimaThule on 15.10.13 21:49

candyfloss wrote:Does anyone know where the babysitting place was? Was it at one of the 3 crèches.  Surely they would only use one at night as there couldn't have been too many around at that time of year.   Everyone said if was very quiet.  Bridget O'Donnell and Jez Wilkins used it the night before, when Jez carried his sleeping 3 year old home.
AMENDMENT with apologies for providing disinformation earlier: the evening creche facilties were by the Millenium restaurant which is shown on the map 2nd down on this link to the mccannfiles site

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mccannfiles.com%2Fid94.html&ei=zaZdUoK9EuiW0QW1voH4Dw&usg=AFQjCNF-VajG-dCjChdXLM_NZsyuHrjcEg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.d2k

In the deconstruction last night, a man carrying a child crossed the road ahead of JT from left to right - i.e the opposite direction to that which she claimed bundleman was walking - and, as far I recall, only the child's head was visible.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by russiandoll on 15.10.13 21:53

@Daisy wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Presumably the PJ have the original creche records.  The night babysitters were the same nannies that ran the creche and the kids clubs, this must all be traceable, sleeping babies would be signed in and out.  

On that chilly night, we are asked to believe a father collected his child, who was wearing only pyjamas, no slippers, and carried her across his arms in the strange manner described by Jane Tanner. Not only did he fail to provide a blanket for the sleeping child, he also failed to provide any bodily warmth by wrapping his arms around her.  As Wendy Murphy would say, I'm not buying it.
According to Daily Mail article today, he did use a (pink) blanket. There's pictures of it alongside the childs PJ's he kept all this years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460669/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapping-innocent-British-father-mistaken-key-suspect.html
 and CW showed him with what looked like his child wrapped in blanket in the side shot, right side of face to Jane, child's head facing Tanner. She had bloody good eyesight when making her mistake....to see those pjs.

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~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by galena on 15.10.13 21:58

@Portia wrote:
@Praiaaa wrote:My inexpert opinion is that JT came clean after years of sleepless nights, and SY are saving her face as a quid pro quo. If there really had been an innocent father of course he would have come forward, or been eliminated using creche records, and been exonerated (and would never in any case carry a living child in that way). IMO JT has cracked. IMO the Paynes have also cracked, hence their anonymity in the scenes last night.
goodpost
Or to protect her against possible revenge.  She may have provided the sighting innocently enough, perhaps believing that the PJ were trying to frame the parents and not taking the abduction seriously enough. (I read a lot of true crime and it's surprising how many people provide alibis for friends for a similar reason)

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Woofer on 15.10.13 22:03

@ultimaThule wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Does anyone know where the babysitting place was? Was it at one of the 3 crèches.  Surely they would only use one at night as there couldn't have been too many around at that time of year.   Everyone said if was very quiet.  Bridget O'Donnell and Jez Wilkins used it the night before, when Jez carried his sleeping 3 year old home.
AMENDMENT with apologies for providing disinformation earlier: the evening creche facilties were by the Millenium restaurant which is shown on the map 2nd down on this link to the mccannfiles site

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mccannfiles.com%2Fid94.html&ei=zaZdUoK9EuiW0QW1voH4Dw&usg=AFQjCNF-VajG-dCjChdXLM_NZsyuHrjcEg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.d2k

In the deconstruction last night, a man carrying a child crossed the road ahead of JT from left to right - i.e the opposite direction to that which she claimed bundleman was walking - and, as far I recall, only the child's head was visible.
That`s not the same as the one shown on Crime Watch.  Its on Joanas video at 17.40.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-reconstruction-that-never-was.html

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Truthandjustice on 15.10.13 22:08

@ultimaThule wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Does anyone know where the babysitting place was? Was it at one of the 3 crèches.  Surely they would only use one at night as there couldn't have been too many around at that time of year.   Everyone said if was very quiet.  Bridget O'Donnell and Jez Wilkins used it the night before, when Jez carried his sleeping 3 year old home.
In May 2007 the evening creche was situated in the reception block which facilitates entry to the pool and tapas bar whistling
Not according to the map on CW which showed the creche some distance to the east of  5A (which struck me as odd because the man would have been walking in  the opposite direction to JT sighting)

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by maebee on 15.10.13 22:10

@Woofer wrote:This Creche Man is bugging me as well - mainly because I cannot think of one reason why this man would not have come forward before now.

He must have known a child had been abducted from the complex he was staying at.
He must have known he was in that vicinity at that very time.

Is he deaf, is he simple, is he a hermit, is he blind, does he not have a computer, does he not read a paper, does he not have a television ?  There surely cannot be anyone in the world (barring lost Amazonian tribespeople) who have not heard of this case.  Perhaps he`s an Inuit and returned to his igloo.

I ain`t buying it.

We`ve all been looking at the Jane Tanner man for 6 years and I bet ALL OF US just assumed that if he was a holiday maker, he would have come forward - BUT HE HADN`T.  Unbelievable.
Spot on Woofer. As we all know, Creche Man is another figment.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by bodiddly on 15.10.13 22:12

Hi newbie here.
Is it possible that Tanner could have used an actual sighting to an advantage and that maybe it is possible to be true, that their really was an innocent British father.
If I was the "innocent British father", maybe I had been screaming from the beginning that it was I who was the so called Tanner sighting! Yet no one wanted to listen? Maybe I informed the MC's at the beginning yet for their own reasons, ignored me. Maybe the media dismissed me as a suspect will sell more newspapers than an "innocent British father". Maybe it was convenient that I remain the Tanner sighting and had no choice but to crawl away.
Anyway if I was that said father, I would remember exactly what I was wearing that day and what my daughter was wearing. I would probably even keep the clothes (though I didn't hear that I heard similar clothes not the actual clothes). Anyway I would keep everything as I would know it would come back to haunt me later.

Still trying to get my head round it all TBH so off to have a really good look round the site.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Guest on 15.10.13 22:14

@bodiddly wrote:Hi newbie here.
Is it possible that Tanner could have used an actual sighting to an advantage and that maybe it is possible to be true, that their really was an innocent British father.
If I was the "innocent British father", maybe I had been screaming from the beginning that it was I who was the so called Tanner sighting! Yet no one wanted to listen? Maybe I informed the MC's at the beginning yet for their own reasons, ignored me. Maybe the media dismissed me as a suspect will sell more newspapers than an "innocent British father". Maybe it was convenient that I remain the Tanner sighting and had no choice but to crawl away.
Anyway if I was that said father, I would remember exactly what I was wearing that day and what my daughter was wearing. I would probably even keep the clothes (though I didn't hear that I heard similar clothes not the actual clothes). Anyway I would keep everything as I would know it would come back to haunt me later.

Still trying to get my head round it all TBH so off to have a really good look round the site.
Thats good thinking, and wellcome!

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Shrike on 15.10.13 22:18

@bobbin wrote:
But, the outcome is that the public at large now are being informed of the Smith sighting and the police can focus on all the other possibilities of Madeleine's disappearance.
Always locked down by the McCs insistence that Maddie had been abducted because their friend Jane says  so, and even getting Gonçalo Amaral moved off the investigation, to have the 'Tanner egg-man' removed from the equation, is really very beneficial.
Whether Jane whispered in someone's ear, whether the police did check creche sheets and find a man who had carried his child sometime that evening (and Jane's timing could be wrong) there are possibilities that the abductor was actually someone legitimate carrying a child, since 11 children had been in the creche that evening.
This is good news because for the first time in 6.5 years the investigation is free to really address 'other' circumstances.
Always love your posts Bobbin, the air of optimism they give to all of us. Thank you for that.

I think we have to look at the way AR delivered the "revelation", to me it seemed to be a bit of a joke. He doesn't really care though as long as JT's "evidence" is dismissed (he probably knows she was put up to it and has given her a bit of "feel sorry for you" when creating coldfeetgirlbeingcarriedbyCrecheman) and he can focus on the Smith sighting of BeigeButtonTrouserMan. Then again, he probably doesn't care if he is dismissing it to protect the mccanns abduction fairytale (or maybe he does but has no choice). We are just going to have to see what will unfold, some will be wrong, soe right but all of us angry for different reasons.

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by Woofer on 15.10.13 22:20

@bodiddly wrote:Hi newbie here.
Is it possible that Tanner could have used an actual sighting to an advantage and that maybe it is possible to be true, that their really was an innocent British father.
If I was the "innocent British father", maybe I had been screaming from the beginning that it was I who was the so called Tanner sighting! Yet no one wanted to listen? Maybe I informed the MC's at the beginning yet for their own reasons, ignored me. Maybe the media dismissed me as a suspect will sell more newspapers than an "innocent British father". Maybe it was convenient that I remain the Tanner sighting and had no choice but to crawl away.
Anyway if I was that said father, I would remember exactly what I was wearing that day and what my daughter was wearing. I would probably even keep the clothes (though I didn't hear that I heard similar clothes not the actual clothes). Anyway I would keep everything as I would know it would come back to haunt me later.

Still trying to get my head round it all TBH so off to have a really good look round the site.
Hello Bodiddly and welcome welcome 

Its good to have fresh minds.

You could have a point.  I can see the McCanns dismissing it but not the PJ. Maybe he just rang the McCann`s number and was fobbed off.  I dunno - its doing my head in.

____________________
The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by ultimaThule on 15.10.13 22:28

@Woofer wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
In the deconstruction last night, a man carrying a child crossed the road ahead of JT from left to right - i.e the opposite direction to that which she claimed bundleman was walking - and, as far I recall, only the child's head was visible.
That`s not the same as the one shown on Crime Watch.  Its on Joanas video at 17.40.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-reconstruction-that-never-was.html
I haven't watched Joana's video but I've just watched the Crimwatch deconstruction again on Dutch tv and have come to the conclusion I wouldn't make a reliable witness as the guy crossed the road from left to right  duh:blushing1

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Re: Innocent British Father

Post by bodiddly on 15.10.13 22:33

Hi Woofer
I am sure I saw a video clip somewhere where GA was quoted as saying he had some evidence he has kept back. 

Just a little niggle I have ref the sighting.

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