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CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Prehensile on 17.10.13 0:33

@sallypelt wrote:
@Prehensile wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:I can't believe what I am reading
Quote

Joan Burnie: Kate and Gerry McCann shouldn't be persecuted by vile online trolls for trying to find their daughter

Such as James Bulger’s mum, Denise, momentarily losing track of her son in a shopping centre.
Unquote



There is NO comparison with what happened to J Bulger and Madeleine McCann. James was at his mother's side. The McCann children were left on their own

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter
My wife has dealt with the daily record....Annie Barrett
Prehensile, I hope it's in connection with the Jame Bulger claim. If I was Denise Fergerson I would be livid
She has complained but we wont hold our breath. Years back we complained about JB suggesting to a woman kicking a partner in the nuts after finding he had had an affair, the same woman who is so against domestic violence.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by russiandoll on 17.10.13 1:24

hello intrigued and welcome.. imo Redwood has not trapped them. He has taken away the impossible , Tannerman and they are left trapped.......their own doing.

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by chillyheat on 17.10.13 1:33

Am I thinking right here....
Tannerman was a total fabrication, but SY has bluffed them by saying that person has come forward ?
Is this the gist of it ?......Im confused lol
If it seems that's the plan, then SY have this almost sussed

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by sonic72 on 17.10.13 1:43

I can't get my head round the fact they expect us to believe that a person or persons saw them on holiday and thought, we want to steal that child, let's watch this family night and day all week to see if they have a weakness in their daily pattern, so they can determine a window of opportunity to steal the child.

For one, someone in the group would have spotted someone shadowing them all week, and the Mccanns and co formed a routine from day one, so these supposed abductors would not have waited until the Thursday, they would have struck earlier because they would have sussed the Mccann's routine already, and there would be less chance of being spotted tailing the Mccann's if they did it as soon as they had their routine sussed.

The supposed abductor would not have gone on a walk towards the sea either, because it makes no logical sense unless they had a speed boat at the ready, or a car parked some distance away. A person on foot carrying a child cannot exactly run, and walking towards the sea is not exactly the quickest route if you are trying to make a fast getaway, so the chances of them getting caught with the child in their arms would be fairly high if they took that option. A real abductor would have a waiting car nearby to make a fast getaway.

Redwood said on the BBC website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24528530

"He said they wanted to track down men seen "lurking suspiciously" near the McCanns' apartment block."

If there was someone 'lurking suspiciously' then why was an alarm not raised at the time?

Who was it who said they saw someone 'lurking suspiciously' and why did they not raise the alarm at the time?
I would like to hear them speaking about it on TV...

It also said in that BBC article...

'Police say one reading of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in Portugal in 2007 is that it has "all the hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction".

What hallmarks are they then?! Based on what exactly?!

Has there ever been a case where a child was abducted from an apartment whilst they were on holiday with their parents?!

I would also like to see the person Jane Tanner said she saw speak on TV, and I'd like to see The Smith family tell their version of events on TV too.

Their story has more holes than a well used dart board!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 1:52

Sonic72, the only case with the vaguest of resemblances that I can think of was the tragic story of Leoni Keating who was taken from a caravan in 1985.
 
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/leoni_s_evil_killer_must_serve_30_years_1_476895

Yes, this really was a paedo stranger, with the inevitable result.

The media was unanimous in tearing the child's mother to shreds for leaving her daughter alone. Hmmm.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by LastChancery on 17.10.13 5:01

they got over 500 clues one hour after the show in germany and calls are still coming in.

lots of people believe they saw madeleine in the last few years in different places.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Seek truth on 17.10.13 5:52

@LastChancery wrote:they got over 500 clues one hour after the show in germany and calls are still coming in.

lots of people believe they saw madeleine in the last few years in different places.
Well they better follow them all up!! 

lol! 

Or they may get criticised like the portuguese police did.

Well some are privileged !

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by StraightThinking on 17.10.13 8:30

@russiandoll wrote:hello intrigued and welcome.. imo Redwood has not trapped them. He has taken away the impossible , Tannerman and they are left trapped.......their own doing.
NSY's new timeline appears to have been accepted by all involved, ie that the only window of opportunity for an abduction was between 21.15 and 21.55

If they can now demonstrate that other events would have made it impossible during that 40 minute window after all, you are left with no abduction. Case partially solved ....

However, the much publicised timeline showing the meal to have been abruptly ended at 21.55 isn't corroborated by independent witness statements, who say it happened about 15 mins earlier. This creates a blank period of 15 mins between 21.40 and 21.55

It then looks significant that the Smith sighting was confirmed at 21.50, 5 mins before the time when we have been told the alarm was raised, but in reality 10 mins after. It would have the effect of making the Smith sighting look irrelevant when its timing is in fact entirely compliant with other events

It also means that the check times may have to be brought forward by up to 15 mins too, which throws the whole timeline into confusion

So what was the sequence of events between 21.40 and 21.55 (real time), during the mysterious timeslot that didn't exist in the original timeline?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by The Slave on 17.10.13 8:39

@Sceneset wrote:Why do you think that The Slave? Or could you post a link please if it has English subtitles?
Now where did my link go?nah

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by russiandoll on 17.10.13 9:25

On neither CW did Redwood describe Maddie in detail, nor mention the coloboma....if you think you have seen her and been close up, this is her most distinguishing feature.

 Surely a central issue if you want the child to be recognised as well as Smithman ?

 6 years later and no real attention to who the public should be paying attention to, no mention of her probable height or build, and crucially the one thing to identify her... just how rare are these eye " flecks"  ?

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unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 9:57

@The Slave wrote:
@Sceneset wrote:Why do you think that The Slave? Or could you post a link please if it has English subtitles?
Now where did my link go?nah
On the new thread The Slave.............German Crimewatch

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Onager on 17.10.13 10:24

The window of opportunity for an abductor is obviously a key factor in SY's approach. The discounting of JT's 'creche man'... in a very casual manner, has changed what this opportunity was previously perceived to be... both in duration and when.

However, from what I've read over the last few days ... only came across this site and maccannfiles last week... confusion, through misinformation, has been sited (and demonstrated) a valuable tactic by Madeleine's parents (consciously or not), the extended family and to a lesser extent, the T7 throughout.

Did this tactic come about by chance?

Or did it form a central part of the stratagem... when as I believe, after discovering the poor girl's body two nights earlier (Kate admits to sleeping in the kid's room the Wednesday night - Gerry's snoring - and not as I believe, to avoid the fact Madeleine's body was in the cupboard, probably packed in ice in the missing bag), they decided their futures where more important than what was right (and decent) for her... but then again why change?

IMHO the true 'window of opportunity' is the period between discovering 'Madeleine was missing' and 'the arrival of the police'. During what was probably a chaotic time... when a number of witnesses actually state Gerry was out looking for her... (and I believe, here again, he has been willing to allow comments he didn't do this) this was always seen as the opportunity to create amongst other things, the "false sighting"... Gerry carrying a child (but not Madeleine... too risky carrying a dead child) with a view to laying a trail (as per a hypothesis on this site a couple years back.. apologies to the original poster as I lost track how far back I read... I have done very little work these last 9 days or so!). The problem being, he hadn't envisaged walking so close to 'witnesses'... which on his return required JT to see the 'abductor' at 9.15'ish, when Gerry was in conversation with Jez... leading to the hastily re-drawn timescale, in turn, putting back the discovery by some 15 or 20 minutes. 

How do I view SY's performance on Monday during CW? I believe (hope) AR's '... back to zero...' is a statement of intent. However, given the nature of the beast... it has to be a case of chipping away at the T9's collective stance (I'll be generous, distorted truths), whilst at the same time eliminating all other lines of inquiry. First JT's 'abductor' is discarded... (and following on from Blacksmith's domino analogy) what next, 10pm becomes 9.40pm... as one by one, all other suspects are crossed off the list... and as some have already mentioned, the parents of Madeleine are right there. Best seats in the house as AR conducts, giving the performance of his life (sic). Only the auditorium is slowly emptying. Still, they can rely on their seven guests... only one or two are fidgeting in their seats (Paynes?), desperate to get out into the fresh air.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by AndyB on 17.10.13 10:36

@Estelle wrote:These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.
Why? What was he doing hanging around the entrance?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by tiny on 17.10.13 10:42

@AndyB wrote:
@Estelle wrote:These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.
Why? What was he doing hanging around the entrance?
could he have been doing something to the shutters,as Wilkins said at one time

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by nobodythereeither on 17.10.13 10:53

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
There is also a witness statement from someone else at the Tapas (not the main group, another party or couple) which is not in the public domain, and I wager this contradicts the timings or absences from the table.
I have seen references recently to several witness statements which are apparently not in the public domain.

Yet I am sure that somebody (Dr Amaral?) has said that all the Portuguese police papers were published apart from those specifically relating to previously known paedophiles?

Can anybody help? Smoke and Mirrors, how do you know about this witness statement? If there may be others which we don't know about, then that certainly puts a new complexion on things.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 17.10.13 10:58

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
There is also a witness statement from someone else at the Tapas (not the main group, another party or couple) which is not in the public domain, and I wager this contradicts the timings or absences from the table.
I have seen references recently to several witness statements which are apparently not in the public domain.

Yet I am sure that somebody (Dr Amaral?) has said that all the Portuguese police papers were published apart from those specifically relating to previously known paedophiles?

Can anybody help? Smoke and Mirrors, how do you know about this witness statement? If there may be others which we don't know about, then that certainly puts a new complexion on things.
I just picked up on it mentioned here, I think it refers to Rasta-man Sperrey. There are also statements from the Carpenters which I don't believe have been disclosed. Also, the PJ retained around 33% of the files, so what other statements could be there is anyones guess.

ETA : We MUST remember that the most important stuff wil not be in the public domain nor will it be until or if this ever comes to a proper Court hearing!!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 11:04

Madeleine McCann: Police 'hunt men in swimming shorts seen near Praia da Luz apartment 24 hours before Maddie vanished'

17 Oct 2013 08:38
 
A British holidaymaker says the two men, thought to be Dutch or German, made him feel uneasy


 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-men-2461285#ixzz2hyL6PIHS

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by AndyB on 17.10.13 11:09

@tiny wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@Estelle wrote:These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.
Why? What was he doing hanging around the entrance?
could he have been doing something to the shutters,as Wilkins said at one time
Possibly but the entrance doesn't appear to be anywhere near 5a
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id21.html

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by nobodythereeither on 17.10.13 11:11

@Smokeandmirrors wrote: Also, the PJ retained around 33% of the files, so what other statements could be there is anyones guess.
Where do you get that figure from?

Sorry to push, but I was definitely under the impression that it was only a few files relating to paedophiles which had not been released.

I understood that for reasons of transparency the PJ were legally bound to release all other files into the public domain? Is that not correct?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by sallypelt on 17.10.13 11:13

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
There is also a witness statement from someone else at the Tapas (not the main group, another party or couple) which is not in the public domain, and I wager this contradicts the timings or absences from the table.
I have seen references recently to several witness statements which are apparently not in the public domain.

Yet I am sure that somebody (Dr Amaral?) has said that all the Portuguese police papers were published apart from those specifically relating to previously known paedophiles?

Can anybody help? Smoke and Mirrors, how do you know about this witness statement? If there may be others which we don't know about, then that certainly puts a new complexion on things.
Information on the reason for the missing files:

With thanks to Albym :
As requested, the list of pages pulled from the files. I haven't done a full literal translation but essentially:
- Category A
relate to people identified during the inquiry whose possible link to the events is extremely unlikely (the most tenuous) and whose right to privacy would be infringed if their personal information were left on file (basically the 'pervy percy' list).
- Category B
relate to crimestopper data with respect to sightings, the TV program having guaranteed anonymity.
- Category C
relate to information from people - often criminals or having a criminal history - that was volunteered by them and they should not be put at risk for having come forward.

You will notice that in the DVD forum Volume-by-Volume Index there are occasional notes on missing pages. Those that I have checked relate to pages withdrawn in accordance with these instructions.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 17.10.13 11:18

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote: Also, the PJ retained around 33% of the files, so what other statements could be there is anyones guess.
Where do you get that figure from?

Sorry to push, but I was definitely under the impression that it was only a few files relating to paedophiles which had not been released.

I understood that for reasons of transparency the PJ were legally bound to release all other files into the public domain? Is that not correct?
When they first released the files on DVD (Sorry it was 5 yrs ago so not going to trawl through stuff, but someone else may know for sure). Also noteworthy is the McCanns tried to get the courts to order Leicester police to hand over their files, a request that was denied. So there is undoubtedly much information that is not in the public domain.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by endgame on 17.10.13 11:19

candyfloss wrote:Madeleine McCann: Police 'hunt men in swimming shorts seen near Praia da Luz apartment 24 hours before Maddie vanished'

17 Oct 2013 08:38
 
A British holidaymaker says the two men, thought to be Dutch or German, made him feel uneasy


 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-men-2461285#ixzz2hyL6PIHS
Thanks candyfloss. I thought your headline was a spoof until I checked the article and found it was real. Wow. That's amazing. Men in swimming shorts at a beach resort. Whatever next? Soon they'll be telling us that these two men were seen on the same beach as some children. That would clearly be conclusive. The fact that they are also foreign can leave no doubt in anyone's mind. Breakthrough! Revelation!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by plebgate on 17.10.13 11:25

Thanks for the laugh CF, I thought it was a spoof headline also.

Snipped from the article:


The holidaymaker said the men made him feel uneasy.
The bare-chested pair were mentioned on BBC's Crimewatch on Monday, when a number of E-fits were released of fair-haired men seen around the Portuguese resort.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-men-2461285#ixzz2hyQ64400
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook"


the bare-chested pair.   big grin big grin big grin 

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by Guest on 17.10.13 11:28

They simply have to be greasy, foreign paedos, don't they?!

Hanging about half-naked where children can be found?

I must retreat to my darkened room to recover!

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Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by plebgate on 17.10.13 11:30

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
There is also a witness statement from someone else at the Tapas (not the main group, another party or couple) which is not in the public domain, and I wager this contradicts the timings or absences from the table.
I have seen references recently to several witness statements which are apparently not in the public domain.

Yet I am sure that somebody (Dr Amaral?) has said that all the Portuguese police papers were published apart from those specifically relating to previously known paedophiles?

Can anybody help? Smoke and Mirrors, how do you know about this witness statement? If there may be others which we don't know about, then that certainly puts a new complexion on things.
I am pretty sure one of Mr. A's  police witnesses at the libel trial said that all files had been released apart from those relating to named paedophiles.

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